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# 15115 - Information On The German Luger Serial #973I
3/28/2015
Danville, Al

Luger - 8 - Blue - 9735 -

DWC stamped on top of gun Do you have any information on the German Luger serial #9735. It has DWC stamped on the top of the gun. It also has GFSICHERT stamped on the left side right end above where the mag. I would like to know where it was made and when and how much you would estimate it to be worth.

Answer:
We get this type of question allot at OldGuns.net, but I am afraid that it doesn't work the way that many people must think. There is no database that is full of all sorts of interesting facts about every firearm that was ever manufactured. Sorry to have to burst people's bubble, I feel almost like I just commented on the reality of a jolly old elf who has a white beard and wears a red suit.

Although I do not have any information on "the German Luger serial #973I", I can tell you some things about your Luger and deduce others from the facts that you provided. GESICHERT is the German word for safe, your Luger was designed so that GESICHERT is visible when the pistols safety is engaged. The stamping that you mention is probably DWM not DWC. DWM are the initials of a well-known Luger manufacturer, they stand for Deutsche Waffen u. Munitionswerke of Berlin-Borsigwalde, Germany. DWM stopped manufacturing Luger pistols in the mid 1920s, so your Luger must have been manufactured in Berlin sometime before then. Most Luger pistols are stamped on their chambers with the year that they were manufactured, since you did not mention this sort of stamping, your chamber is probably blank which would indicate that you probably have a 1920 commercial model. The 1920 commercial model is one of the most common types of Luger and collector interest in them is relatively low. If your Luger is indeed a 1920 commercial model, the value will be in the $450 to $750 range or less, depending on condition. Marc


# 15055 - Redfield Rifle?
3/28/2015
Jeff, Damascus, Maryland

Redfield - Unknown - Unknown - Blue - UNKNOWN -

bolt action with some type of side fed action not a magazine unknown model, unknown caliber, no markings other than Redfield at the end of the barrel Did Redfield make a bolt action rifle with some type of side fed mechanism for ammo? Thanks!

Answer:
Jeff- Sorry, I have never heard of such a thing. I suspect you may have a Model 1896 or 1898 .30-40 Krag rifle which has had a scope added, using a mount that attaches to the left side of the receiver, and covering all the markings there. But, this may one of the many times I am wrong. John Spangler


# 15114 - What's It Worth?
3/24/2015
Tony, Buda,TX

Winchester - 270 - 22 - Blue - 393343 -

What is this gun worth?

Answer:
Prices for 1950's vintage Pre- 64 Model 70 Winchesters can range from $100 to over $1000 depending on condition originality and configuration. Marc


# 15069 - L C Smith Three Barrel 1882
3/24/2015
Doug

L C Smith - Three Barrel 1882 -

What is the first thing I should do after acquiring this antique . I carefully cleaned it as I would all of my arms, Hoppes and some gun oil . About the shotgun: 10gauge side by side over a 44-40 rifle I contacted the LC Smith collectors association and sent pictures. they believe that the date is 1882-3 after 1884 they made double barrels with 5 digit sn mine has a three digit serial number 957, it was made by LC Smith maker of Baker guns in Syracuse, New York. The Damascus steel barrels were cut at some point and there is some miner pitting in barrels stock and grip are good shape; hammers work except on rifle mode which needs a firing pin. It is a quality #2...... Questions- do I have a professional gunsmith repair it? Do I get it appraised before or after said repairs? What is the best way to trace the sn and compile the history on this shotgun? The pat. Date is 1877 and all sn match. By NRA standards I would grade this antique as good to very fine? I'm no expert! I would love to learn anything you may have to offer! Also there were only 1186 made of 1600 sn's. I have found 16 modeled after old German Drillings. I believe it to be RARE! Fine Thank you.

Answer:
Doug- Sounds like a very interesting gun. However, we know little about shotguns in general and absolutely nothing at all about L.C. Smiths. I think you are best served by continuing the discussion with the Smith collectors. John Spangler


# 15112 - Winchester 06 Value
3/21/2015
Katie Carlsbad, CA

WINCHESTER - 06 - 22 PUMP RIFLE - 20'' - Blue - 155354 -

wood pump rifle/wood pump and stock. Black metal, not silver so I am assuming finish type justifies ''BLUE''. Thanks etched the words ''Patented January 29, 1901'' Winchester Trademark along with SN 155354. Thanks for helping me. My Winchester Model 06. 22 pump rifle has SN 155354 which researched shows DOM of 10-25 - 902. the rifle has ''patented January 29, 1091'' etched. It is in good condition but curious what low bid would be on it. Don't know if I want to sell, or keep. My Daddy gave to me. Thanks for the feedback. Katie

Answer:
Katie, the value of a Winchester Model 1906 is highly dependent on the current condition and originality of the rifle. Rifles that are missing a lot of finish and / or have a lot of rusting and pitting can sell as low as $100. Alternately, pristine examples can be valued at over $1000. Since I am not able to physically evaluate your gun I am not able to provide an accurate estimate of the value. It may be more productive to visit a local gun show and ask a few exhibitors with similar rifles for an estimate. The average response is likely to be in the ball park for the value of your rifle. -JTW


# 15068 - Browning Shotgun Date Of Manufacture
3/21/2015
Bob

Browning - 12ga - 751PP40463 -

Made in Belgium I have a shotgun but am having problems finding anything out about it, when it was made, and what value it may have, any help would be appreciated, thank you.

Answer:
Bob- Browning has used several different serial number systems over the years. Starting in 1976 Browning switched their serial number system again, and this time they used a product number, date code letters, and serial number for their guns made in Europe and U.S.A. For Japanese made guns, it was serial number, date code letters and model number.

Your shotgun was made in Belgium so it is the Model 751, letter P indicates 8, so it was made in 1988, and the rest is the serial number. It took a bit of digging on the Browning site, but the 751 is their code for the A-500R which was a short recoil model made in Belgium and assembled in Portugual between 1987 and 1993.

For more on Browning dates of manufacture check out http://www.browning.com/customerservice/dategun/ and they have manuals for their guns for download from http://www.browning.com/customerservice/ownersmanuals/index.asp

John Spangler


# 15053 - Percussion Combination Wundhammer, Reid, Bavaria
3/17/2015
Germany [Ried, Bavaria]

Ed. Wundhammer - Double Barrel Percussion - Blue -

In gold on top of double barrels [1 shotgun -SC- 1.50 caliber rifle] Ed. Wundhammer in Ried Any information would be appreciated

Answer:
Sir- I regret I cannot find any information on that maker. Sounds like a very nice rifle. I suggest you contact the German Gun Collectors Association to see if they can help.

I do know that some target rifles have a distinct fat spot on the pistol grip to more naturally fit the palm of the hand than the usual pistol grip type shape, and this is known as a “Wundhammer swell.” I do not know if it is the idea of Ed. Wundhammer, or perhaps a later family member also engaged in the gun trade, but again for which there is no information I could find. John Spangler


# 15109 - Winchester (Schmidt-Rubin) 308
3/14/2015
Robert Troy, Pennsylvania

Winchester - None - 308 - Blue - 411544 -

This is a straight pull bolt action with a ring on the end of the bolt to pull the firing pin back. This gun has nothing more on it than the caliber and serial number and I can't find any more information on it. What can you tell me about it? Thanks Bob

Answer:
Robert, the only straight pull rifle that we are aware of that Winchester has made is the 1895 Lee Navy rifle. This rifle was chambered for 6MM, and the bolt did not feature a ring with which the user could cock the rifle.

By the description you have provided, it is very likely that what you have is in fact a rebarreled Swiss 1911 Schmidt-Rubin. It is common practice when rebarreling a gun to designate the new caliber on the replacement barrel. This is likely why the only markings you see are ".308 Winchester," as it is the proper designation for what many simply refer to as ".308."

Judging by the serial number you have provided it is likely that this rifle was produced in 1916 for the Swiss Infantry. The value of the rifle has been diminished since it is no longer in original condition. It is probably better to consider this rifle a shooter rather than a collector's item. JTW


# 15103 - Winchester 670a DOM & Value
3/10/2015

Winchester - 670a - 243 - ? - Blue - 6202081 -

cant find much info on rifle, just wanted to know the exact date and value, I am the 3rd owner shot very little, maybe a box through it. Thanks

Answer:
The Model 670 was introduced in 1967 as a budget version of the Model 70. At the time of introduction the Model 670 featured a lever safety to the left of the bolt. The 670A changed this feature to be more similar to the three position wing safety seen on the Model 70. In 1973 Winchester discontinued the Model 670 series. A serial number database for this rifle does not currently exist, so I am unable to provide a precise date of manufacture for your rifle.

Unfortunately, collector interest in the 670 series is fairly low. These rifles typically sell between 150-400 depending mostly on the condition of the rifle. JTW


# 15049 - Bitterlich & Legler, Nashville, Shotgun
3/10/2015
John, Tuscaloosa, AL

Bitterlich & Legler - Double Barrel, Double Trigger Unknown - Unknown - Don't Know -

''Bitterlich & Legler Makers, Nashville, TENN.'' I have found limited information about this manufacturer online other than they were active from 1862 - 867. I understand that this double barrel, double trigger shotgun with intricate markings may be a Confederate Calvary shotgun as per family lore. Any help or info would be appreciated.

Answer:
Bohemian born Franz (later Frank) J. Bitterlich (sometimes spelled Bitterlick) was working as a gunsmith in Nashville, TN, in 1860, and was making copies of Henry Deringer’s pocket pistols. He continued to make derringers after entering into a partnership with Legler, with whom he worked until 1867. While mainly known for their derringer style pistols, they were “full line” makers, probably including double barrel shotguns.

Thus, if made between the 1862 merger and the end of the Civil War in mid 1865, your gun has the possibility of being a Confederate used arm. However, “intricate markings” are seldom found on military arms, so it may actually be a post-war weapon made for sale to occupying forces, rich carpetbaggers, or s local who managed to keep their wealth during the war, a la Rhett Butler.

There is mention at http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?productid=975 of official records which indicate Bitterlich did work on 50 pistols, 17 rifles and 124 double guns in October 1861, for Terry’s Texas Rangers, before affiliation with Legler. However, the long arm work was done at $1.25 each and may have been simple repairs, or shortening of barrels or fitting with some sort of bayonet lug. Cavalry shotgun barrel lengths were probably in the range of 15-24 inches, so if yours is longer than that, I doubt if it saw military use. Value depends on configuration, but if a simple percussion sporting shotgun, it might bring a couple hundred dollars, but the Bitterligh and Legler name would add something above that. A verified Confederate shotgun would presumably run in the $1,000 and up (possibly WAY up!) range. John Spangler


# 15089 - High Number 62
3/7/2015
Stu Buffalo,NY

Winchester - 62 - .22SL Or .22LR - 23 - Other - 850557 -

Other research I've done seems to put this model at post 1906 and pre 1940. Assuming I've provided you with a proper serial #, is there any other info that is available to determine the manufacture date or other helpful info about this rifle. Thanks, Stu

Answer:
Stu, the Winchester Model 62 entered production in 1932 as a replacement for the 1890 and 1906 slide action models, which ceased production in that year. The Model 62 remained relatively unchanged until 1940 when Winchester made some modifications to the construction of the bolt, resulting in an "A" designation for all Model 62's produced thereafter. Because the rifle you have does not have an "A" designator it was produced between 1932 and 1939. The serial number provided is beyond the serial number range of the Model 62, which had an estimated 410,000 units made before it was discontinued in 1958, so I am unable to determine a precise date of manufacture. Josh Wade


# 15045 - Belgian Copy Of Colt Singe Action
3/7/2015
Dick Waunakee Wisconsin

Colt Replica - Revolver - 38-40 - 7.5 - Blue - UNKNOWN BELGIUM -

Belgium proof markings I have this 1873 colt replica, with Belgium proof marks 7.5 i -SC- nch barrel with walnut grips. is there anyway to determine who would of made this. looks very old and in rough shape it is in 38-40 caliber. thanks Dick

Answer:
Dick- The Colt single action revolver is the iconic side arm of the old west as portrayed by Hollywood. However, many people carried less expensive guns, including Remingtons, various Smith & Wessons, and a surprising number of cheap knock-offs made in Belgium. While many of the Belgian copies were sold in North America, many more were sold in South America. Quality was generally okay, and examples seen today indicate that their owners used them long and hard. Actual makers are hard to identify and the markings often only included a highly visible reference to the cartridge they used, coincidentally including the name of the American maker being copied. This often fooled gullible buyers into thinking they were getting a real Colt or S&W. These “secondary cowboy guns” are an under-appreciated collecting niche, with inexpensive examples available. But, they are sneered at by the Colt and Winchester collectors,, so few enter this specialty. Value will be modest, but it is a cool and historic item anyway. John Spangler


# 15044 - Sedgley Springfield Rifle In .22 WCF
3/3/2015
Steve, Morganton, NC

RF Sedgley - Springfield Sporting Rifle - .22 WCF - 24'' - Blue - 759714 -

I have one of the custom RF Sedgley rifles in caliber .22 WCF. This is clearly marked on the barrel. The Gun Blue Book entry does not mention that the sporters were made in this caliber. I have researched the web and have been unable to find any information on how many of these rifles were made in .22 WCF. Do you have any information or can you direct me to a site or person that knows RF Sedgleys? Thank you in advance for your time and information.

Answer:
Steve- R.F. Sedgley operated in Philadelphia and made and sold a variety of guns and gun parts, including M1903 parts for the nearby U.S. Marine Corps Depot of Supplies. The best descriptions of Sedgley made M1903 sporters are from the late Michael Petrov at http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=115831 and at http://finegunmaking.com/page33/page25/page25.html “The demand for Springfield sporters got to be so high that Springfield Armory started to make them for sale to NRA members through the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM). The first Springfield sporter was made in November 1922 and, after producing 5,535 they stopped production with the last one delivered in July of 1934. Springfield Armory would, on request, send your sporter in the white to Griffin & Howe for refining, stocking and bluing. R.F. Sedgley, Inc., bought every low number Springfield action they could get from the government, re-heat-treated them [although the effectiveness of this is doubtful] and, using Winchester barrels, made a semi- custom sporter that sold in a price range which a working man could then afford.”

The .22 WCF cartridge is summarized nicely in Wikipedia, so we will quote their entry here:

“.22 Winchester Centerfire (.22 WCF) was a small centerfire cartridge introduced in 1885 for use in the Winchester Model 1885 single shot rifle. Factory manufacture of ammunition was discontinued in 1936. The .22 WCF was loaded with a 45 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of about 1550 feet per second, similar to the performance of the .22 Winchester Rimfire (.22 WRF) designed in 1890.

Experimentation with the .22 WCF among civilian wildcatters and the U.S. military at Springfield Armory in the 1920s led to the development of the .22 Hornet cartridge.”

Winchester began making .22 Hornet ammunition in 1930 although commercial rifles chambered for it were not available until 1932. Clearly the buyer of your rifle made a big mistake getting it in an obsolete caliber about to be discontinued instead of the great new Hornet cartridge just coming into vogue.

It would be interesting to know if your rifle is a full length Springfield action or one of the actions that Sedgley shortened by removing an inch from the center and welding the ends back together, and shortening the bolt assembly a similar amount.

There does not seem to be a lot of interest in Sedgley products, even though they encompass flare guns, the numerous sporter conversion rifles, the Kolb “Baby” revolvers, a number of pistol conversions including a .22 caliber device for the M1911 pistol, plus some tools. The leading expert, Michael Petrov mentioned above, died in February 2014. His impressive collection was recently auctioned off, and it would be interesting to see if the prices realized met the estimates, as that seems to be a very niche market where Petrov was probably the major buyer. John Spangler


# 15098 - 9mm Bolo
3/3/2015
Greg, Bowie,Md,USA

Mauser - C96 Bolo - 9 MM - 3.9 - Blue - 513XXX -

I have a hard time tracing this pistol. It is a 9mm, but not a red 9. It has 9mm Parabellum inscribed on the barrel, No ring

Answer:
Greg, based on your description the pistol is certainly the smaller sized (Bolo) version of the C96 “Broomhandle” Mauser pistol. It likely left the factory chambered in the 7.63 caliber cartridge. I suspect that someone had the barrel bored out to 9 mm to accept the more radially available Luger cartridge. There were several gunsmiths offering this service here in the U.S. in the 1980’s and 1990’s. The barrel would then be marked with the new caliber. Marc


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