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# 15095 - Gecado 38
2/28/2015
Joan Washington Pennsylvania

Gecado - Could Not Find It - 38 Special - 4 /6 - Don't Know - 664 -

Made in Germany 1. Where can I find the model number 2. What is this gun worth

Answer:
Joan, Gecado pistols were marketed by the Dornheim company (Dornheim G. C. Dornheim AG, Suhl. Germany). Pre-war Gecado pistols were low quality 6.35mm and 7.65mm 'Eibar' type automatics, manufactured by SEAM (q. v.). They bore the word 'Gecado' in a diamond.

Post-war Gecado models were manufactured in West Germany and they included various .22 and .38 caliber revolvers and a blowback operated semi-auto model much like the pre-war versions except for a difference in the location of the safety catch. .

Collector interest in this type of pistol is typically low, they often sell in the $50 - $100 range. Marc


# 15043 - Winchester Model 12 Shotgun Marked CP 32
2/28/2015
Cindy, Neodesha, Ks.

Winchester - Model 12 - 12 Ga. - 30 - Blue - 627341 -

The number 32 and the letters CP on stock. I am wanting to know what these stand for the numbers and letters on the stock of this gun. I sure hope you can help. Thanks.

Answer:
Cindy- I am not sure what the 32 and CP mean. If it were only CP, it might be a previous owner’s initials. The 32 suggests it was part of a group of similar guns, perhaps rental guns from a club, or ones used by a police department or something. A lot of Winchester Model 12 shotguns were given to law enforcement departments for use in Civil Defense programs during the Cold War, and that would be my best guess. John Spangler


# 15042 - French(?) Blunderbuss
2/24/2015
France

St Etienne? - Blunderbuss - 50 ? - 10 1/4 Inches,26 Cm. - Stainless Steel - NONE -

A stamped crown on the brass plate on the left side. A crown with the letter G under it on the brass plate behind the trigger. Overall length, 20 inches. Very good condition. Can't find anything that looks anything like it. How rare is it? Approximate value.

Answer:
I regret we cannot help with this one. Possibly with some photos we could tell you a little bit, but without them my initial reaction, especially with a “stainless steel barrel” is that it may be a replica of some sort. John Spangler


# 15093 - Rossi Made In Spain?
2/24/2015
David San Antonio Texas

Rossi Made In Spain - 38 Long Cartridge 6 Round Revolver - 4 Inches - Blue - 11417 -

It has a 12 on the barrel I can't fined any info about it or model number or what year it was made just know it was made in Spain and the s.n# 11417 Rossi has no Mach for it. Plez help thank you

Answer:
David, Rossi has a pretty good reputation among inexpensive revolvers for being well made and reliable, but since there is little or no collector interest in Rossi firearms, I have never paid much attention to them. I can tell you that Rossi was established in 1889 and located in Sao Leopoldo, Brazil. Since Rossi is a Brazilian company, your assumption that the revolver was manufactured in Spain is probably incorrect.

A Google search for Rossi manufacture dates pointed me to The Rossi Model Number Lookup System at http://www.rossiusa.com/find-model.cfm which is supposed to ``help you find detailed information about your Rossi Gun``. When I entered your serial number no results were retuned. The instructions on the page say that specific information for all serial numbers may not be available, especially on older models. If a serial number does not return a result, they ask you to call Rossi customer service at 305-624-1115. Good Luck Marc


# 15040 - Colt Revolver Connected To “ Dodge City, Kansas ”
2/21/2015
Damian Dixon Ill

Colt - 45 - 6in With Ejector - Blue - 239XXX -

Inside walnut grip April 12 1879 George G Wells 134 Front Street Dodge City Kansas A.T.E.S.F.RR Where can I find its value

Answer:
Damian- All Colt revolvers have collector interest and value. You did not specify a model, but in .45 caliber it has to be either the Model 1873 Single Action Army or the Model 1878 “Frontier” double action revolver. However, the M1878 serial numbers never reached 239,000. The SAA did get to 239,000 but not until 1903, so your pistol was made in 1903. This conflicts with the 1879 date on the grips, raising questions about the authenticity of the markings. The six inch barrel length is also questionable, as the closest standard lengths were either 5.5 inch or 7.5 inch.

The closest thing to a George G. Wells in Dodge City in the 1880 census is a Fred Wells, a 30 year old laborer, which may or may not have been working for the railroad. There was a George Wells living in Wichita, KS, in 1880 who was 31 years old and worked as a clerk in an agricultural store. Perhaps he had moved and changed careers since April, 1879. Or, he may be an entirely different person than George G. Wells. No other information was found that would verify existence of a George G. Wells in Dodge City Kansas in 1879, or connected with a railroad. Of course, absence of proof does not prove a negative, but it raises doubts.

Dodge City was a somewhat wild frontier boomtown in 1879, and Wyatt Earp just happened to be the Sheriff there, leaving in 1879 for points west. The Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railroad was a famous early system which opened the west and connected many markets where previously moving of goods by wagon was cost-prohibitive. A connection with that would be a nice plus. However, these are too many “nice coincidences” when found on a gun made long after the alleged connections.

I take a very cautious view of any firearms with a purported history. I strongly recommend Jim Supica’s thoughts on the subject which can be seen at http://www.ogca.com/pieces_of_history_by_jim_supica.htm

Bottom line is that the basic value without any historic connection depends on the exact model, the condition of the gun, considering any alterations from original. Any added value for the inscription on the grips needs to be considered separately, but at this point I think they were likely added to enhance the value for some gullible buyer thinking they were getting some sort of rare Wyatt Earp related item. I may be wrong, but I would not invest my money in this one. John Spangler


# 15085 - Charter Arms Bulldog
2/21/2015
Larry

Charter Arms - 34431 Bulldog - 44SPL - 3` - Blue - 609599 -

1 - 5 rounds fired since new.2-finish 99% all original 1-What was cost new 2-value now

Answer:
Larry, the Charter Arms Bulldog is a nice little revolver but there is not much interest among collectors in most Charter Arms models. I have not been able to find any production data to confirm when the Bulldog was first introduced, but if memory serves me correctly it was sometime in the late 1970s or early 1980s. I was able to find that Charter Arms discontinued the Bulldog in 1991, reinstated it in 1994 and discontinued it again in 1996. The last MSR for the Bulldog was $268. Blue book prices for used Bulldog revolvers over the last few years have remained pretty steady, starting out at $70 and topping off at $225 depending on condition. Marc


# 15094 - Non - Nazi Astra 600 Value
2/17/2015

Astra - 600 - 9MM - Blue - 55587 -

I have a Astra model 600/43 serial number 55587 and was wondering if it was used in war and how much is it worth

Answer:
During WWII the German Heereswaffenamt asked Astra to develop a pistol built around the 9MM parabellum round that was smaller than the model 400. Fifty prototypes were assembled in 1943 as test pieces. The prototypes were approved by the Heereswaffenamt and Astra commenced manufacture their new model 600.

Between May 16 and July 16 of 1944, a total of 10,450 Model 600 pistols were sent to the town of Irun on the French border for use by German troops that were then occupying France. The serial number range of these pistols was 51-10500. A short time later an additional 28,000 pistols were delivered to the border, but could not be accepted by the Germans because they were evacuating the area as a result of the Allied invasion of Normandy. The serial number range of pistols that could not be delivered was 10501-38500. These pistols were returned to Spain where they were used by the Spanish Government. The pistols that were delivered all have German Military acceptance stamps located on the right side of the frame just above the serial number.

Model 600 production was terminated in 1945 with pistol # 59546. Serial numbers 38501 to 59546 were placed in stock by the factory and eventually sold to the West German Government. Your pistol, serial number 55587 was in the batch that could not be delivered to the Germans in 1944. Value for model 600 pistols that have German acceptance stamps are quite good, when I see them for sale at gunshows, prices are usually in the $750 + range. Values for pistols that were not delivered to the Germans are much lower, they usually sell for $350 or less depending on condition. Marc


# 15035 - Sandia Die & Cartridge Ammunition
2/17/2015
Larry, Columbus, Ms

Sandia Die & Cartridge - Blue -

Have an old box of Sandia Die & Cartridge .30 Carbine 108gr (50 rounds) and wonder about the value to a collector.

Answer:
Larry- I don’t think these have any special collector interest. Sandia Die and Cartridge is still in business (as of December 2014) and was founded in 2010, so the ammo is not that old. It is likely one of the many ammo making outfits that sprang up in recent years in response to the Obama gun grab panic buying. John Spangler


# 15091 - Where To Find A Value For An Iver Johnson
2/14/2015
jim st francis mn.

Iver Johnson - Model X - 22 Cal. - 22'' - Blue - 42411 -

where do I find what this worth?

Answer:
jim, try checking some of the gun auction web sites for Iver Johnsons that are similar to yours. My favorite site is Gun Broker at www.gunbroker.com. When you visit an auction site, you will probably find that some sellers ask unrealistically high prices for their items. Most of the time overpriced items do not sell, the only results that really have any meaning are for items that have sold.

Another good resource is S. P. Fjestad's Blue Book of Gun Values, you can purchase a copy online at the following link: http://bluebookofgunvalues.com/

Hope this helps. Marc


# 15030 - Civil War Starr Carbine Serial Numbers
2/14/2015
John, Perth, WA, Australia

Starr - Percussion Carbine - 54 - 21 Inch - Blue - 9089 -

The serial number 9089 is listed on the paper work supplied by Auction company, however on inspection I have noticed the action serial number is proceeded by the number one on its side (ie lazy 1 9089) and the under barrel serial number has the number one under the listed numbers (ie 9089/1). Just checking to see if the serial number could be 19089 or the number one could be the letter ''i''

Answer:
John- The only Starr carbine I ever owned was one I bought while still in high school a very long time ago, and I don’t recall anything about them. Either 9089 or 19089 are plausible serial numbers, well within the range of military issued Starr carbines, but there is no historical data on either one of those numbers. It is possible that the lonely “1” was some sort of subassembly “match” number, but I think that the placement makes it very unlikely that it is part of the serial number. If the auction house in question deals with a lot of Civil War carbines, I would be pretty sure they got he number recorded correctly. John Spangler


# 15029 - Winchester 94 With Brownish - Copper Color Finish
2/10/2015
United States

Winchester - 94 - 30-30 - Blue - 2724572 -

The metal is a brownish copper color? Looking for a value, and answer to the color of metal?

Answer:
Sir- Your rifle was made shortly after the change over in 1964 to cheaper production methods with more stamped parts and crappy stamped checkering. The steel used in Model 94 receivers from 1964 to 1982 were some sort of oddball stuff that does not respond well to traditional methods to “blue” them. The exact type of metal is subject to debate, as is the best way to end up with a nice blue black color that matches the original factory finish. If the usual gunsmith “hot blue tank” process is used the result is usually an ugly purplish color. I suspect that this is the cause of your unusual color finish.

The most often recommended solution is to use the spray on “Gun Kote” type finish, and you can either do that on just the receiver, or the whole gun if you like and the cost would be very modest. Since the rifle has almost certainly been refinished already, you will not hurt the value, but the results may be more pleasing to look at. As far as value, I see refinished post-1964 Model 94s at gun shows priced around $300-450 retail. John Spangler


# 15087 - Belgium's Personal Guards Handgun?
2/10/2015
Matthew, Topeka, Kansas

Belgian Browing. - Model 1910 - 9mm - Don't Know - 26445 -

On top of the barrel there is a crown and the letter W. Was told this was the queen of Belgiums Personal Guards handgun right before Germany invade. I was just curious if it's true and if the model was correct. I can send photos if it will help. Thank you for any help.

Answer:
Matthew, I was a little skeptical about your Belgium personal guards story so I did a quick Google search and found a "List Of Belgian Consorts" on Wikipedia, at the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Belgian_consorts. None of the ladies on this list have a name that starts with "W". The W and crown markings on firearms that I am familiar with were used to denote the weapons used by the military of Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands (or Holland). The most common one is the FN Model 1922 made in 380 caliber or 9 mm kurz or short. Queen Wilhelmina reigned over the Netherlands from 1890 until 1948. I suspect other weapons such as rifles might have been marked with the W crown marking also. Marc


# 15081 - American Eagle Luger With 8.82 Marked Barrel
2/7/2015
Jim, Floyds Knobs, In.

Luger - 1906? - 7.65 Parabellum - 3-3/4'' - Blue - FRAME# 44167 ''GERMANY'' BARREL

American Eagle stamp and Script DWM across top. This pistol has a grip and thumb safety. Frame serial number and barrel number do not match. The barrel has an 8.82 designation stamp below the serial number which other web sites indicate a 9mm chamber but this gun will not accept a 9mm round. The 7.65 Parabellum round will chamber. Any idea what the discrepancy represents and should I take it to a gunsmith before firing? Do I have a piece of junk or a collector? Fit and finish are very nice.

Answer:
Jim, I would definitely take this pistol to a gunsmith to determine caliber before firing it. The fact that a 9 mm round will not chamber is a good indication that this pistol is, not 9 mm. A ruler with a millimeter scale laid across the muzzle to measure the bore diameter will confirm this. I just looked at the Simpson's Limited website. They have many American Eagle Lugers for sale. The Model 1900's and Model 1902's have a small locking piece attached to the right side of the knurled cocking piece on the toggle. The Model 1906 does not have this small locking piece. The Model 1900 American Eagle was only made in 7.65 caliber but the 1902 and 1906 American Eagle pistols were made in both calibers.

On the Simpson Website they have pictures of the American Eagle pistols for sale. None that I looked at had the caliber stamped on the barrel. This agrees with my own personal observations that commercial Luger barrels are usually not marked with the caliber. The serial number was also placed on the barrel right at the base, not closer to the muzzle as is seen on the military Lugers we usually see.

If the serial numbers on the barrel, side plate, upper and lower receiver do not all match then the gun would be considered a "shooter" by collectors, and the value is considerably reduced. Marc


# 15028 - Winchester Model 52D Target With Left Hand Stock
2/7/2015
Peter, Rochester, New York

Winchester - Model 52 - 22lr - 28'' - Blue - 122536D -

Competition left hand hand hole maple stock. I can't find any info on this target rifle in left hand from the WINCHESTER sights, and the Winchester 52 perfection in design book. Thanks

Answer:
Peter- I cannot find any indication that Winchester made any Model 52s with left hand thumb hole stocks. In fact, they only made about 750 rifle with thumbhole stocks, designated the International Match or International Three Position. However, smallbore target shooters were very active in customizing rifles to meet their preferences, and I am pretty sure that both right and left handed thumbhole stocks were offered by Al Freeland and other sources catering to target shooters. I think even Fajen might have provided some thumbhole stocks. Undoubtedly it is a fine shooter, although some of the later 52D triggers were reportedly troublesome. Hope that helps. John Spangler


# 15080 - Model 70 Caliber
2/3/2015
rudolph c jimenez

Win - Pre 1964 Mod 70 - Question Don` Know - Blue - 561989 -

what cal is this can't find any data on gun.

Answer:
rudolph, all iterations of the Pre 64 Model 70 were marked in two locations to designate the caliber. The first location should be on the left hand side of the barrel. The second location is on the bottom side of barrel, which requires removal of the stock to view. This location will typically contain a shorthand description of the caliber and the year of manufacture of the barrel.

If the barrel on your rifle does not contain these markings it is likely that it has been rebarreled. This practice was (and is) not uncommon because many believe the Model 70 action to be the apex of bolt action style rifles. Joshua Wade


# 15024 - A.B. Steiner Muzzle Loading Rifle
2/3/2015
David Maple, North Judson, Indiana

??? - Flintlock / Caplock - .32--.38? - 36'' - Other - 76 -

Receiver face engraving of men in tricorn hats hunting pheasant Inside trigger mechanism initials A. B. Steiner Inside trigger number 76. Lea I am the 5th generation in my family to own this gun. I am hoping to find out when and where it was made. This would also help me in my family research. I was told it was originally a flintlock but it looks like it was converted to cap lock. Any information you can give me would be very much appreciated. I can send some pictures if this would help. email dmaple308@yahoo.com

Answer:
Frank Sellers’ “American Gunsmiths” lists A.B. Steiner as working in Bushkill, PA, [probably actually Bushkill Center, which is a different place with a similar name] circa 1860 as a lockmaker supplying the large gun making operations of the Henry family in Boulton, PA, now part of Nazareth, PA.

The photos you provided confirm that the style of this rifle is mid-19th century, circa 1850-1870, which matches Steiner’s date of operation. The lockplate is strictly a percussion style, and it was never a flintlock. The Henry family made rifles for sale across a wide area of the mid-Atlantic states, and it could have been originally purchased in Pennsylvania or Virginia. It is nice to see it stay in the family where it can be appreciated. Frankly, similar guns are fairly common and tend to bring only very modest prices (probably in the $200-350 range for one like yours.). These were mainly small game hunting guns, or perhaps for deer as well, but no longer needed for protections from Indians.

For family research, the website Ancestry.com has a wealth of information and is well worth the modest fee to join. Hope that helps. John Spangler


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