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# 15115 -
Information On The German Luger Serial #973I
DWC stamped on top of gun Do you have any information on the German Luger serial #9735. It
has DWC stamped on the top of the gun. It also has GFSICHERT stamped on the left side right
end above where the mag. I would like to know where it was made and when and how much you
would estimate it to be worth.
Answer: We get this type of
question allot at OldGuns.net, but I am afraid that it doesn't work the way that many people must
think. There is no database that is full of all sorts of interesting facts about every firearm that was
ever manufactured. Sorry to have to burst people's bubble, I feel almost like I just commented on
the reality of a jolly old elf who has a white beard and wears a red suit.
Although I do not have any information on "the German Luger serial #973I", I can tell you some
things about your Luger and deduce others from the facts that you provided. GESICHERT is the
German word for safe, your Luger was designed so that GESICHERT is visible when the pistols
safety is engaged. The stamping that you mention is probably DWM not DWC. DWM are the
initials of a well-known Luger manufacturer, they stand for Deutsche Waffen u. Munitionswerke of
Berlin-Borsigwalde, Germany. DWM stopped manufacturing Luger pistols in the mid 1920s, so
your Luger must have been manufactured in Berlin sometime before then. Most Luger pistols are
stamped on their chambers with the year that they were manufactured, since you did not mention
this sort of stamping, your chamber is probably blank which would indicate that you probably
have a 1920 commercial model. The 1920 commercial model is one of the most common types
of Luger and collector interest in them is relatively low. If your Luger is indeed a 1920
commercial model, the value will be in the $450 to $750 range or less, depending on condition.
bolt action with some type of side fed action not a magazine unknown model, unknown caliber,
no markings other than Redfield at the end of the barrel Did Redfield make a bolt action rifle with
some type of side fed mechanism for ammo? Thanks!
Answer: Jeff- Sorry, I have never heard of such a thing. I suspect you may
have a Model 1896 or 1898 .30-40 Krag rifle which has had a scope added, using a mount that
attaches to the left side of the receiver, and covering all the markings there. But, this may one of
the many times I am wrong. John Spangler
# 15114 -
What's It Worth?
What is this gun worth?
Answer: Prices for 1950's vintage Pre-
64 Model 70 Winchesters can range from $100 to over $1000 depending on condition originality
and configuration. Marc
# 15069 -
L C Smith Three Barrel 1882
L C Smith -
Three Barrel 1882 -
What is the first thing I should do after acquiring this antique . I carefully cleaned it as I would all
of my arms, Hoppes and some gun oil . About the shotgun: 10gauge side by side over a 44-40
rifle I contacted the LC Smith collectors association and sent pictures. they believe that the date
is 1882-3 after 1884 they made double barrels with 5 digit sn mine has a three digit serial number
957, it was made by LC Smith maker of Baker guns in Syracuse, New York. The Damascus steel
barrels were cut at some point and there is some miner pitting in barrels stock and grip are good
shape; hammers work except on rifle mode which needs a firing pin. It is a quality #2......
Questions- do I have a professional gunsmith repair it? Do I get it appraised before or after said
repairs? What is the best way to trace the sn and compile the history on this shotgun? The pat.
Date is 1877 and all sn match. By NRA standards I would grade this antique as good to very fine?
I'm no expert! I would love to learn anything you may have to offer! Also there were only 1186
made of 1600 sn's. I have found 16 modeled after old German Drillings. I believe it to be RARE!
Fine Thank you.
Answer: Doug- Sounds like a very interesting
gun. However, we know little about shotguns in general and absolutely nothing at all about L.C.
Smiths. I think you are best served by continuing the discussion with the Smith collectors. John
# 15112 -
Winchester 06 Value
Katie Carlsbad, CA
wood pump rifle/wood pump and stock. Black metal, not silver so I am assuming finish type
justifies ''BLUE''. Thanks etched the words ''Patented January 29, 1901'' Winchester Trademark
along with SN 155354. Thanks for helping me. My Winchester Model 06. 22 pump rifle has SN
155354 which researched shows DOM of 10-25 - 902. the rifle has ''patented January 29, 1091''
etched. It is in good condition but curious what low bid would be on it. Don't know if I want to sell,
or keep. My Daddy gave to me. Thanks for the feedback. Katie
Answer: Katie, the value of a Winchester Model 1906 is highly dependent on
the current condition and originality of the rifle. Rifles that are missing a lot of finish and / or
have a lot of rusting and pitting can sell as low as $100. Alternately, pristine examples can be
valued at over $1000. Since I am not able to physically evaluate your gun I am not able to
provide an accurate estimate of the value. It may be more productive to visit a local gun show
and ask a few exhibitors with similar rifles for an estimate. The average response is likely to be in
the ball park for the value of your rifle. -JTW
# 15068 -
Browning Shotgun Date Of Manufacture
Made in Belgium I have a shotgun but am having problems finding anything out about it, when it
was made, and what value it may have, any help would be appreciated, thank you.
Answer: Bob- Browning has used several different serial number systems over
the years. Starting in 1976 Browning switched their serial number system again, and this time
they used a product number, date code letters, and serial number for their guns made in Europe
and U.S.A. For Japanese made guns, it was serial number, date code letters and model number.
Your shotgun was made in Belgium so it is the Model 751, letter P indicates 8, so it was made in
1988, and the rest is the serial number. It took a bit of digging on the Browning site, but the 751
is their code for the A-500R which was a short recoil model made in Belgium and assembled in
Portugual between 1987 and 1993.
For more on Browning dates of manufacture check out
http://www.browning.com/customerservice/dategun/ and they have manuals for their guns for
download from http://www.browning.com/customerservice/ownersmanuals/index.asp
Ed. Wundhammer -
Double Barrel Percussion -
In gold on top of double barrels [1 shotgun -SC- 1.50 caliber rifle] Ed. Wundhammer in Ried Any
information would be appreciated
Answer: Sir- I regret I cannot
find any information on that maker. Sounds like a very nice rifle. I suggest you contact the
German Gun Collectors Association to see if they can help.
I do know that some target rifles have a distinct fat spot on the pistol grip to more naturally fit the
palm of the hand than the usual pistol grip type shape, and this is known as a “Wundhammer
swell.” I do not know if it is the idea of Ed. Wundhammer, or perhaps a later family member also
engaged in the gun trade, but again for which there is no information I could find. John
# 15109 -
Winchester (Schmidt-Rubin) 308
Robert Troy, Pennsylvania
This is a straight pull bolt action with a ring on the end of the bolt to pull the firing pin back. This
gun has nothing more on it than the caliber and serial number and I can't find any more
information on it. What can you tell me about it? Thanks Bob
Answer: Robert, the only straight pull rifle that we are aware of that
Winchester has made is the 1895 Lee Navy rifle. This rifle was chambered for 6MM, and the bolt
did not feature a ring with which the user could cock the rifle.
By the description you have provided, it is very likely that what you have is in fact a rebarreled
Swiss 1911 Schmidt-Rubin. It is common practice when rebarreling a gun to designate the new
caliber on the replacement barrel. This is likely why the only markings you see are ".308
Winchester," as it is the proper designation for what many simply refer to as ".308."
Judging by the serial number you have provided it is likely that this rifle was produced in 1916 for
the Swiss Infantry. The value of the rifle has been diminished since it is no longer in original
condition. It is probably better to consider this rifle a shooter rather than a collector's item.
# 15103 -
Winchester 670a DOM & Value
cant find much info on rifle, just wanted to know the exact date and value, I am the 3rd owner
shot very little, maybe a box through it. Thanks
Model 670 was introduced in 1967 as a budget version of the Model 70. At the time of
introduction the Model 670 featured a lever safety to the left of the bolt. The 670A changed this
feature to be more similar to the three position wing safety seen on the Model 70. In 1973
Winchester discontinued the Model 670 series. A serial number database for this rifle does not
currently exist, so I am unable to provide a precise date of manufacture for your rifle.
Unfortunately, collector interest in the 670 series is fairly low. These rifles typically sell between
150-400 depending mostly on the condition of the rifle. JTW
''Bitterlich & Legler Makers, Nashville, TENN.'' I have found limited information about this
manufacturer online other than they were active from 1862 - 867. I understand that this double
barrel, double trigger shotgun with intricate markings may be a Confederate Calvary shotgun as
per family lore. Any help or info would be appreciated.
Answer: Bohemian born Franz (later Frank) J. Bitterlich (sometimes spelled
Bitterlick) was working as a gunsmith in Nashville, TN, in 1860, and was making copies of Henry
Deringer’s pocket pistols. He continued to make derringers after entering into a partnership with
Legler, with whom he worked until 1867. While mainly known for their derringer style pistols, they
were “full line” makers, probably including double barrel shotguns.
Thus, if made between the 1862 merger and the end of the Civil War in mid 1865, your gun has
the possibility of being a Confederate used arm. However, “intricate markings” are seldom found
on military arms, so it may actually be a post-war weapon made for sale to occupying forces, rich
carpetbaggers, or s local who managed to keep their wealth during the war, a la Rhett Butler.
There is mention at http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?productid=975 of official
records which indicate Bitterlich did work on 50 pistols, 17 rifles and 124 double guns in October
1861, for Terry’s Texas Rangers, before affiliation with Legler. However, the long arm work was
done at $1.25 each and may have been simple repairs, or shortening of barrels or fitting with
some sort of bayonet lug. Cavalry shotgun barrel lengths were probably in the range of 15-24
inches, so if yours is longer than that, I doubt if it saw military use. Value depends on
configuration, but if a simple percussion sporting shotgun, it might bring a couple hundred
dollars, but the Bitterligh and Legler name would add something above that. A verified
Confederate shotgun would presumably run in the $1,000 and up (possibly WAY up!) range. John
# 15089 -
High Number 62
.22SL Or .22LR -
Other research I've done seems to put this model at post 1906 and pre 1940. Assuming I've
provided you with a proper serial #, is there any other info that is available to determine the
manufacture date or other helpful info about this rifle. Thanks, Stu
Answer: Stu, the Winchester Model 62 entered production in 1932 as a
replacement for the 1890 and 1906 slide action models, which ceased production in that year.
The Model 62 remained relatively unchanged until 1940 when Winchester made some
modifications to the construction of the bolt, resulting in an "A" designation for all Model 62's
produced thereafter. Because the rifle you have does not have an "A" designator it was produced
between 1932 and 1939. The serial number provided is beyond the serial number range of the
Model 62, which had an estimated 410,000 units made before it was discontinued in 1958, so I
am unable to determine a precise date of manufacture. Josh
# 15045 -
Belgian Copy Of Colt Singe Action
Dick Waunakee Wisconsin
Belgium proof markings I have this 1873 colt replica, with Belgium proof marks 7.5 i -SC- nch
barrel with walnut grips. is there anyway to determine who would of made this. looks very old and
in rough shape it is in 38-40 caliber. thanks Dick
The Colt single action revolver is the iconic side arm of the old west as portrayed by Hollywood.
However, many people carried less expensive guns, including Remingtons, various Smith &
Wessons, and a surprising number of cheap knock-offs made in Belgium. While many of the
Belgian copies were sold in North America, many more were sold in South America. Quality was
generally okay, and examples seen today indicate that their owners used them long and hard.
Actual makers are hard to identify and the markings often only included a highly visible reference
to the cartridge they used, coincidentally including the name of the American maker being
copied. This often fooled gullible buyers into thinking they were getting a real Colt or S&W.
These “secondary cowboy guns” are an under-appreciated collecting niche, with inexpensive
examples available. But, they are sneered at by the Colt and Winchester collectors,, so few enter
this specialty. Value will be modest, but it is a cool and historic item anyway. John
# 15044 -
Sedgley Springfield Rifle In .22 WCF
Steve, Morganton, NC
RF Sedgley -
Springfield Sporting Rifle -
.22 WCF -
I have one of the custom RF Sedgley rifles in caliber .22 WCF. This is clearly marked on the
barrel. The Gun Blue Book entry does not mention that the sporters were made in this caliber. I
have researched the web and have been unable to find any information on how many of these
rifles were made in .22 WCF. Do you have any information or can you direct me to a site or
person that knows RF Sedgleys? Thank you in advance for your time and
Answer: Steve- R.F. Sedgley operated in
Philadelphia and made and sold a variety of guns and gun parts, including M1903 parts for the
nearby U.S. Marine Corps Depot of Supplies. The best descriptions of Sedgley made M1903
sporters are from the late Michael Petrov at
and at http://finegunmaking.com/page33/page25/page25.html
“The demand for Springfield sporters got to be so high that Springfield Armory started to make
them for sale to NRA members through the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM). The first
Springfield sporter was made in November 1922 and, after producing 5,535 they stopped
production with the last one delivered in July of 1934. Springfield Armory would, on request, send
your sporter in the white to Griffin & Howe for refining, stocking and bluing. R.F. Sedgley, Inc.,
bought every low number Springfield action they could get from the government, re-heat-treated
them [although the effectiveness of this is doubtful] and, using Winchester barrels, made a semi-
custom sporter that sold in a price range which a working man could then afford.”
The .22 WCF cartridge is summarized nicely in Wikipedia, so we will quote their entry here:
“.22 Winchester Centerfire (.22 WCF) was a small centerfire cartridge introduced in 1885 for use in
the Winchester Model 1885 single shot rifle. Factory manufacture of ammunition was
discontinued in 1936. The .22 WCF was loaded with a 45 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of
about 1550 feet per second, similar to the performance of the .22 Winchester Rimfire (.22 WRF)
designed in 1890.
Experimentation with the .22 WCF among civilian wildcatters and the U.S. military at Springfield
Armory in the 1920s led to the development of the .22 Hornet cartridge.”
Winchester began making .22 Hornet ammunition in 1930 although commercial rifles chambered
for it were not available until 1932. Clearly the buyer of your rifle made a big mistake getting it
in an obsolete caliber about to be discontinued instead of the great new Hornet cartridge just
coming into vogue.
It would be interesting to know if your rifle is a full length Springfield action or one of the actions
that Sedgley shortened by removing an inch from the center and welding the ends back together,
and shortening the bolt assembly a similar amount.
There does not seem to be a lot of interest in Sedgley products, even though they encompass
flare guns, the numerous sporter conversion rifles, the Kolb “Baby” revolvers, a number of pistol
conversions including a .22 caliber device for the M1911 pistol, plus some tools. The leading
expert, Michael Petrov mentioned above, died in February 2014. His impressive collection was
recently auctioned off, and it would be interesting to see if the prices realized met the estimates,
as that seems to be a very niche market where Petrov was probably the major buyer. John
# 15098 -
C96 Bolo -
9 MM -
I have a hard time tracing this pistol. It is a 9mm, but not a red 9. It has 9mm Parabellum
inscribed on the barrel, No ring
Answer: Greg, based on your
description the pistol is certainly the smaller sized (Bolo) version of the C96 “Broomhandle”
Mauser pistol. It likely left the factory chambered in the 7.63 caliber cartridge. I suspect that
someone had the barrel bored out to 9 mm to accept the more radially available Luger cartridge.
There were several gunsmiths offering this service here in the U.S. in the 1980’s and 1990’s. The
barrel would then be marked with the new caliber. Marc