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# 15176 - National Fire Arms Company .22 Rifle
Tom Eau Claire

R. Murdock - National Firearm Company - 22 Cal. - Blue -

This is a falling block design. I believe 22 cal. What this gun worth, and how old is this gun?

Tom- There are several variations on the name:
National Arms Co of Brooklyn, NY made Moore patent revolvers and derringers circa 1866-1869 when they were sold to Colt, but apparently not any .22 rifles.
National Arms Co. was also a trade name used on imported shotguns.
National Fire Arms Co. was a trade name used by Crescent on double barrel shotguns.
National Fire Arms Co. was a trade name used on a Martini type shotgun.
National Fire Arms Co. was a trade name used by Marlin on some of their pump shotguns and .22 caliber rifles, but I am not sure exactly what type of .22 rifles. This info is from Frank Sellers American Gunsmiths.
Not knowing the maker or date, it is impossible to put an accurate value on it, but my guess is circa 1890-1910 and not much value. John Spangler

# 15247 - Mle 1892 Berthier Mousqueton ( Carbine )
Terry Eastlake Ohio

Lt Etienne - Mle 1892 - Dont Know - Blue - 21341 -

that is all the markings on this rifle. has bayonet holder on front. strap ring on side and loop on butt. flip up sights. Have no idea what it is or who made it. could you possibly have a guess?

Terry You probably have a Mle 1892 Berthier Mousqueton. The markings are `St. Etienne`, not `Lt Etienne` and they indicate that the firearm was manufactured at the French Arsenal at St. Etienne. Wikipedia has some pretty good information on Berthier rifles and carbines at the following link: Here is some information from Wikipedia that may be useful:

The Berthier design began as the "Mousquetons Berthier" - a series of bolt action cavalry and artillery carbines with distinctly different actions from the Mle 1886/M93 8mm Lebel rifle. For instance the Berthier carbine's bolt lugs lock vertically into the receiver instead of horizontally as in the Lebel rifle. Berthier carbines were first issued in 1890 and 1892, and had been designed by Emile Berthier, an engineer at the French Algerian Railways,to be used with standard 8mm Lebel ammunition. The Berthier design was introduced as a replacement for the various aging Mle 1874 Gras single-shot carbines - still standard for French cavalry, artillery, and gendarme forces even after the introduction of the Mle 1886/M93 Lebel. Prior experiments with several carbine versions of the Lebel action proved unacceptably heavy and slow to load while on horseback. While retaining most of the bolt action's strong points, the Berthier carbine improved on the earlier Mle 1886 rifle by using a one-piece stock and a Mannlicher-style, charger-loaded en bloc 3 shot clip. These Berthier carbines were progressively allocated to all cavalry,artillery and gendarmerie troops during the 1890s.

Hope that this helps, Marc

# 15175 - Civil War Smith Carbine
Bob , Washington pa

American Machine Works - Smith Carbine Pat. 1857 - 50 - Blue - 782 -

Inspector Marks (initials) on stock, barrel, and other initials on forearm and stock I am looking for any information on when this Gun was made and how it might as a government contracted firearm been related to the civil war. It is in excellent condition for the age. Several collectors have used the term ''pristine''

Bob- The Smith was a very simple and reliable design, basically using a hinged action that folded the gun in half, opening the middle of the chamber so you could insert or remove a cartridge, although you still needed a percussion cap for ignition. The Army purchased 300 for trials in 1860 and during the course of the Civil War purchased 30,062 more. The earliest were made by American Machine Works of Springfield, Mass, and later guns by the Massachusetts Arms Company and the American Arms Company, both of Chicopee Falls, Massachusetts, According to Robert M. Reilly’s U.S. Military Small Arms 1861- 1865. However, John D. McAulay’s U.S. Military Carbines claims a total purchase of 31,002 between January 1862 and June 1865, with the earliest guns made by Massachusetts Arms Company.

The Smiths were issued in just about every theater of the war, and many cavalry units had a mix of several different weapons in a regiment and sometimes even within a company. Mechanically the Smith was an excellent weapon, simple and rugged and easy to repair when needed. However, the ammunition tended to have problems with reliability, so the guns got a bad reputation among some units, while others loved it. The Smith cartridge was more or less a piece of rubber tubing with the bullet stuck in on eend, the powder inserted and the open base sealed except for a small opening to allow the flash from the percussion cap to ignite the powder charge. However the hole also allowed some of the powder to leak out over time while carried on a bouncing horse with the cartridge base (and hole) downward in the cartridge box, making ignition difficult or impossible.

There is no known history surviving for your serial number, but you can read numerous battle accounts of the Smith in service in McAulay’s excellent book. Smiths are relatively common on the collector market, and many are still used by shooters in the North-South Skirmish Association (although may have retired their originals and now use replica arms), and “pristine” examples turn up frequently. Hope that helps. John Spangler

# 15246 - Father's Spreewerke P.38
Pauline, Bowie, MD

9mm - Don`t Know - 1798 1 -

P .38 cyq 1798 1 eagle on globe 88 under ? others not sure (have photos) My father was in the Navy towards the end of WW2 and I`ve inherited his handguns. I am trying to determine the history and value of a P.38, which after reading some of your answers, I believe to be a Spreewerk. I don`t know much about gun markings, but the P.38, cyq, 1798 and 1 are on the left side of the slide -SC- above the trigger on the left side is 1798, 1 and two symbols on either side of the ''1'' I can`t make out: one is a round shape with eight `arms`, and the other has a top line with three small horizontal marks, attached to a round mark below it which has a horizontal line on both sides of it, and attached to two ''8''s below that. On the right side of the slide there are three symbols: one looks like a bird with spread wings sitting on something round on both sides of the bird there appears to be partial markings similar to the two ''8''s described above, with another marking I can`t make out. Underneath the barrel the 1798 and 1 are stamped. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Pauline, as you have already determined, "cyq" is the WW-II German ordnance code assigned to Spreewerke GmbH, Metallwarenfabrik, Berlin Spandau, Germany. Spreewerke got it's name from the company's main offices, located on the bank of the Spree River in Spandau, a suburb of Berlin. Spreewerke serial numbers are limited to four digits and a letter suffix but they did not start over at the beginning of each year and there is no year marking. For P.38 pistols manufactured by Spreewerke, collectors use the letter suffix to estimate the year of manufacture. The `1` that you mention is probably the really the lower case letter `l`. My calculations tell me that Spreewerke P.38 pistols with `l` serial number suffixes were manufactured in January of 1944.

Spreewerke P.38 pistols typically exhibit rough machining with visible milling marks. Your pistol should be stamped with an eagle over a swastika on the right hand side of the slide and an eagle over 88 twice on the right hand side of the slide, once on the frame above the trigger, once on the right hand side of the barrel locking block and once on the left side of the barrel group. The eagle over 88 stamping is a German WW-II Heerswaffenamt inspectors mark for the Spreewerke P.38 pistol and the eagle over a swastika is a military acceptance stamp.

Your pistol sounds like a nice memento of your father and I am glad to hear that it is still in your family. I would expect to see a P.38 pistol like you are describing sell at a gunshow in the $850.00 - $900.00 range. Hope this helps. Marc

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