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# 12297 - Arminius HW7

Liberty? - Hw7? - .22 Magnum - 6'' - Blue - 742570 -

liberty shield imbedded in frame on left side behind a liberty stamp, Indian head stamp on left side behind barrel, H WEIHRAUCH MELLRICHSTADT stamped on right side made in Germany, liberty monitors cal What is it, when was it made, any history on it, worth anything? Its been in my family since long before it was born curious to anything about it

Victor, it sounds like your revolver is one of the many cheap 1960s vintage imports manufactured by Arminius. The HW7 originally came with interchangeable cylinders, so it could handle either .22LR or .22WMRF cartridges. The model was also marketed in the USA as the Dickson Bulldog and sold in Europe under the Gecado brand name. In general Arminius firearms are of low quality have little or no interest to collectors. I typically see them offered for sale at gunshows in the $50 or less range with few takers at any price. Marc

# 12364 - Early P.38 Ruined
Richard, Roswell, NM

Walther P-38 - 9 Mm - Nickel - 3227H -

ac over 41, several eagle over 359's on left side, swastika between two eagle over 359's on right side, have you ever heard of any nickel plated ac 41's?

Richard, in some circles, after WWII, it was popular for returning GIs to have their war souvenirs nickel plated. This happened to many nice Lugers and P.38 pistols that I have seen. Unfortunately, the nickel finish is not original and it ruins any collector value that the gun might have had. Marc

# 12217 - Walther PP Pistol With Presentation History

Walther - PP -

Okay fellas. I need some help determining the value of a pre WW2 Walther PP. This story can be authenticated. This Walther PP is pre WW2. It was presented to the Ambassador from Uruguay, Don Virgilio Sampognano by the Foreign Minister of Germany, von Ribentropp, as I said before WW2. The pistol is in excellent condition. It has the original box, Walther catalog in Spanish, two mags, cleaning kit, and vintage practice rounds that came with the pistol. It also has two holsters, one is the belt-worn flap holster, and the other is a shoulder holster with straps. The shoulder holster has two straps that attach to the top of the holster and a small strap with a snap that holds the pistol in the holster by circling the pistol grip. Both holsters are from same time period (pre WW2) and are original Walther holsters. The pistol barrel is marked with eagles over Ns. There is also an eagle over a globe. Any ideas on the value? Please believe the story about the pistol, there is no doubt that it is true.

Ron- Sorry, we cannot help with that one. The gun itself is a nice gun, and has reasonable, but not great, value. The quality of the documentation to PROVE the presentation story greatly effects the value. Signed note from grandma about her cousin's neighbor telling her about this adds almost nothing. Newspaper clippings of the presentation ceremony, with copies of receipt forms, photos, etc showing the ambassador with the Kraut add a lot. We really don't have a feel for that market segment, and think it would do best on one of the firearms auctions, or perhaps Manions. John Spangler



Rich- Very few Western Field shotguns were purchased for government use, and most of those were long barrel guns for training use, or plant guards. This one may have been used by a local law enforcement agency at some point, or perhaps for use in weddings back in the days when people considered marriage and pregnancy to be necessarily related. I am 99.9% certain that the SEABEE story is absolute fiction, and probably invented to help sell an otherwise rather undesirable accumulation of parts. You are probably not aware that ALL CAPS in email is usually used to express shouting or anger. Many people consider use of ALL CAPS to be rude or insulting and refuse to answer them. Just thought you might like to know. John Spangler

# 12215 - Cannon Wanted For Memorial

I am looking for a Field artillery piece (Towed) any size or an AA gun that I can put on display as a Memorial. Can you help me buy one? Thanks.

Sorry, we cannot help with that one. If the memorial is officially sanctioned (some governmental entity) or a VFW or Cemetery type setting it MAY be possible to get something loaned from the government. They have rather strict and sometimes silly rules about preservation and security, but if you meet their criteria and play by their rules, it can be done. (Example- a museum has an inoperable M48 tank on static display. They got gigged because they did not have a chain attaching it to a ring in the concrete driveway...... like that would stop someone capable of moving 25 tons of tank!)

I believe the program is run out of the Army's tank and automotive command (names have changed, so that may not be correct) in the "Donations section" or memorials, or something like that. I ran across their site one time which had some examples of appropriate displays of loaned material but do not recall any more than that.

If you find an item for sale, there is a good chance that the owner does not have clear title to it, and it still belongs to the government. Be sure to get a bill of sale and include a statement that the seller guarantees that they have a clear title to this item, and accept the responsibility to pay for the legal defense against any claims made against your ownership of this item as a result of this sale." (Or something similar- pay a lawyer $100 now, or $xx,xxx later!) Good luck. John Spangler

# 12279 - Ruby Pistol
Phil, Fresno, Ca.

Eibar-Ruby - 7.65 - not sure - Don't Know - 84953 -

On the side, it is marked Gabilondos Y Urresti-Eibar-Ruby Cal 7.65 What is the official name of this handgun, and what is the year of production? What is the value?

Phil, I believe that Ruby is the correct name to call these pistols by. Gabilondos y Urresti started business in 1904 manufacturing cheap Velo-Dog type revolvers and in 1909 they added the Radium automatic to their product line. Work on the Ruby (an Eibar-pattern automatic) began in 1914 and early in 1915, Gabilondo y Urresti received an open-ended contract from the French army for 10,000 Ruby pistols every month. Soon after that, the contract was increased to 30,000 pistols per month. The company could not meet such a large demand, so work was sub-contracted to five other local firms. Even this was not enough and several more companies eventually became suppliers to the French. In the end WWI Ruby contracts turned out to be the foundation of many Spanish firearms manufacturers.

Ruby pistols are an interesting part of WWI history but as with most firearms connected with the French, there is not a lot of collector demand. Values usually top out at around $350. Marc

# 12333 - Old Colt 1903
Frank, Ocean, N.C.

Colt - Model 1903 - 32 - 3 1/2 ? - Blue - 539606 -

I have this gun. It is old. The man said it was made in the twenties. It is new in the box. He bought it from the original owner. I have the box and the instructions. The finish is excellent and the grips are wood and very nice. Could you tell me what it is worth? Thank you, Frank

Frank, the Colt 1903 was a hammerless, semi-automatic design that was chambered in .32 ACP, it had a 4 inch barrel, charcoal blue finish, checkered hard rubber grips, slide lock, grip safety, barrel lock and barrel bushing. Colt manufactured the Model 1903 from 1903 to 1946.

It sounds like you have a nice gun but the seller seems to have been embellishing his story a little. My references indicate that the year of manufacture for your Colt is 1940. The blue book lists Colt 1903 values between $230 and about $600. Since you have the box and papers and because of the excellent condition, your pistol may be worth a bit more. Marc

# 12339 - Nice Rohm?? I Don't Think So.

Rohm ( I Know But Read On) - 38 - 3 - Blue - 73060 -

German spelling of 38 sepezial , 2 shot over/under, a mark shows 3 triangles on a straight line. My limited research finds comments abound on crappy imports from the 60's Nothing about German manuf. for in-country during WW2. Old German gal owns this nice heavy piece. Help? thanks Cathy

Cathy, I don't even want to try to claim the dubious honor of being able to say that I am an expert on Rohm firearms. I believe that Rohm GmbH of Sontheim/Benz Germany was founded after the end of WWII. If I am correct there were none manufactured for German in-country use during the war. I can tell you that your research was correct, Rohm manufactured a large range of cheap revolvers for import to the US in the 1960s. This was prior to the gun control act of 1968 when restrictions on handgun dimensions severely curtailed importation. Values for all Rohm firearms (even the heavy ones like the one your friend has) fall in the $20.00 - $50.00 range if you can find a buyer. Marc

# 12214 - WW1 Antiques- Belt With Insignia

I hope that you can help me. After WWI my father brought back from France quite a few souvenirs. They have been in attics for over 80 years. Quite a few leather items were included. There are 2 or 3 German leather belts (with "Gott Mit Uns" buckle) that have had insignia or buttons mounted on the belt. Was this some type of troop activity of the German soldier? The insignia appears to be from allied armies. Was this practice the equivalent to "notches in the handle of a revolver"? Do you have any suggestions as to where I should go to get answers to my questions?

John- Adding numerous insignia to leather belts was common practice during WW1. The collector term for these is a "hate belt" although that is about all I know about them.. Apparently they included souvenirs from the enemy, and often from allies as well, pretty much whatever a soldier wanted to keep. Values tend to be modest (probably in the $100 or less range) unless there is something extra rare and collectible included. Hope that helps. John Spangler-

# 12212 - M1903 Springfield National Match NMP Rifle Info

Springfield - National Match -

Hi I am trying track, understand, and identify a rifle inherited from my Dad. What I know is it was 1 of 150 made according to Frank Mallory at SRS. By serial number it is a NM-P, but by actual hands on inspection it is a completely intact National Match rifle with no pistol grip. The serial number is.1254323. It also was supposed to have been owned and used in National Matches by a J.W. Gillus/Gillis from Eastern Mass. or Eastern New York. Any info or guidance would be greatly appreciated

Allen- SRS reports what is in the records. Sometimes the records are wrong. Maybe it was a clerical error overlooking an entry for a standard NM rifle in a batch of records for sales of NM-P rifles- reportedly the records were often prepared by summer intern type employees. It is also possible that the purchaser decided they did not like the pistol grip stock and replaced it with a straight stock at a later date. It is also possible that Bubba acquired the rifle at some point and sporterized the NM-P stock and a dealer or collector later installed a straight grip stock since NM-P stocks are simply never found. (I have been looking for one for about 8 years!) You definitely should get a copy of the documentation from SRS. (We do not get a commission on the letters the write, but we know that they add greatly to the interest of any gun that will letter.) John Spangler

# 12213 - Centurian P14 Rifle
Larry, Colorado

Centurion - P-14 -

I currently own a centurion P-14, 300 win mag. Made by Century International Arms. Serial # W119503. I'm seeking all information about this weapon- History, etc. Thank you for your time in this matter.

Larry- Century Arms had a large number of British Pattern 1914 military surplus rifles. To anyone but a collector, these are ugly guns in a not very popular caliber for sporting use. By reworking the receiver to get rid of the ugly military sights and installing a new barrel and stock they were able to make them into rugged sporting rifles. This was done circa 1985-1995. They have no collector value at all, but are probably pretty good sporting rifles for the money. Hope that helps. John Spangler

# 12347 - Should I Buy An FIE?
Tom, Calimesa, Calif.

FIE - ''Little Ranger'' - 22LR - 22Mag - 3.5 Inches - Blue - TR11912 -

Before I commit to buy, how old is this gun and what should I expect to pay for it. It is in reasonably good condition. I know FIE is out of business and research tells me some of the guns they imported were not of the best quality. Thanks for any info you might give me.

Tom, my free advise offered (as always) with a full money back guarantee is, don't waste your money on this gun, they are of low quality and have no collector interest. Buy a Ruger Single Six instead. Marc

# 12348 - Re-Barrel my Luger?
Rich, Chico, CA.

Luger - 7.65mm - 4'' - Nickel - 3005 -

None I inherited this pistol from an old friend and was wondering if there was any collector value? My friend bought it in Mexico about 50 years ago and never fired it. It's very clean and in very good condition. If it is just a shooter then I think I will rebarrel it to 9mm for cheaper ammo.

Rich, the nickel finish is not original and it pretty much ruins any collector interest that the gun had. My free advise offered (as always) with a full money back guarantee is re-barrel away. Marc

# 12349 - Locate Ruger 10-22
Nate, Tehachapi, Ca

Blue -

I grew up shooting my dad's 1967 Ruger 10-22 and would like to get my own now that he has taken his to New Zealand (I don't think it will ever come back) Do you know where I can get one. I saw the post #1248 about it and was hoping you could help. Thanks - Nate

Nate, has several for sale, send us an e-mail and we can arrange the sale. Marc

# 12211 - Value Of Gun

I'm not a gun collector - I can't afford to and continue to be an avid shooter, and at times I come across arms that are vintage collectors' pieces and don't realize it when I make the purchases. It's when I get the piece home, and get to take a look at it, that I realize it MAY be worth more than what I paid!!! I recently purchased a Navy Arms Morse Rifle, and bought it due to my being a black powder shooter, and the piece being one that I had never seen before. I tried finding out what type of rifle it was all over the net, and finally realized that the ONLY folks who WOULD KNOW, would be the company who sold it in the first place, and RIGHT I was, as after I sent the Navy Arms Company 13 photos of the piece, they sent me an email reply in about 10 minutes, letting me know that it was a "MORSE RIFLE" with 1 in 60 twist, sold from the mid 70's to the early to late 80's, and came in both kit form and factory assembled. This one I have is in what I would say to be NRA VERY GOOD to EXCELLENT condition, with a fairly low serial number, in the low 1400's, and am wondering if you might be able to give me some sort of ball park figure as to what it may be worth??? In the event you don't have any idea, I'm wondering if you could direct me to sites where I might be able to find this out, without having to PAY $10.00 or MORE for this minimal amount of information!!! If I was a collector, I'd HAVE the books and wouldn't need to ask others for assistance in information, and since I'm NOT a collector, it isn't worth the expenditure for me to outlay A LOT of money in manuals that I more than likely will get very little if no use out of, and for the most part will sit in the house collecting dust!!! All I'm asking for is a ball park price range for this specific piece. If it has little or no collectors' value, I'll put it to good use out on the range, as it is a very nice piece in .50 cal. Thanks for your time and your assistance!!! Best Regards!!! Gerald - NRA Life Member

Gerald- Sorry, we cannot help with that one. We do not pay much attention to the replicas. No one seems to care much about low numbers with replicas, and few people collect them, so values tend to be pretty much limited to what a shooter would pay.

Frankly, you seem to want to make a profit on this item which you know nothing about, but object to paying someone a few dollars for their time and expertise. That strikes me as the sign of a greedy cheapskate and makes me disinclined to help even if I knew the answer. I don't think you would come over to paint my house for free so I could get a better price when I sell it, and that is pretty much what you are asking me to do for you. John Spangler

# 12350 -
Glenn, Norfolk, Virginia

Luger - 9mm - 3in.? - Blue - 5262 -

All parts that look removable have 62 on them. Gesichert on left rear side by safety. 1937 stamped on top of rear of barrel. Wooden handles. Wooden bottom on Clip My brother gave this to me and it seems in pretty good condition with little wear and slight minor corrosion. The two part question I have is: Should I take it in to a shop and have it cleaned?, And is this an item that may be of some value? Do you know of a sight that I may be able to find it's history?

Glen, Gesichert is the German word for safe, you may have noticed that it is only visible if the safety is engaged, when the safety is not engaged the word is covered by the lever. It sounds like you have a pretty good pistol. Depending on condition value can go to as high as $1700 for Lugers of this type. Since yours has a little rust and a little wear, value is probably closer to the $1100 - $1200 range. Taking your Luger to a gunsmith for a good cleaning is a good idea, you should always keep firearms clean and covered with a light coat of oil. Do not let the shop talk you into having the pistol re-finished because that would destroy most of the collectors interest and reduce value by as much as 75%.

There is no known source of records to determine the history of WWI or WWII vintage German firearms. All records are said to have been destroyed during the war. Marc

# 12210 - Krag Bayonet With "Kill Marks"

I have a question about my 1903 dated bayonet for a Krag rifle. There are some etchings inscribed on the handle- it looks like roman numeral" II" and three side ways lines underneath, someone told me that meant two kills and 3 attempts. Is there anything more you might be able to tell me about this item and if it is worth selling or just holding on to.

John- The markings are not official military markings, and I have no idea who put them there, or why. While "kills" and "attempted kills" is an exciting theory, it is more likely sheer boredom, or dollars owed on camp card games, or a mark to tell one guy's bayonet from the others since they all looked the same. Maybe keeping count of the number of times he got caught goofing off and assigned to KP, or got away without being caught. In any case, they do nothing to add to the value, and may hurt the value depending on how bad they are. John Spangler

# 12138 - 32 Safety Hammerless Second Model

Smith and Wesson - New 32 Departure - 32 - 1319xx -

Pearl grip. Left barrel printed ''32 S&W OTG''. Right side, above grip printed ornate S&W within circle trademark. Printed on top of barrel patent dates ''Smith and Wesson Springfield Mass USA Pat'd Feby 20.77 Dec 18.77 May 11.80 Sept 11.85[?] Oct 2.83 ?] Two [?] Aug 4.95 [?} (due to small print difficult to be sure). Good condition. What is the value and history of this gun (specifically or in generic terms)?

Jordan you have a .32 Safety Hammerless Second Model, these were also known as the New Departure or the 'Lemon Squeezer' to the general public. About 78,500 .32 Safety Hammerless Second Model revolvers were manufactured from 1902 to 1909, the serial range for this model was 91,418 - 170,000. The Safety Hammerless was a an excellent design, which was both safe and easy to fire accurately. Ease of accurate fire was due to the trigger design which had a short hesitation and then a lighter pull just before the hammer fell. The short hesitation allowed a marksman to correct his aim before he completed his shot. The U.S. Cavalry carried out tests to see if the .38 caliber Safety Hammerless was suitable for military use but it was concluded that the design was too fragile and complicated for military requirements. I see this model offered at gunshows in the $150 to $350 range but demand is not high and they often seem to take a long time to sell. Marc

# 12343 - Mauser Merke .25?
Alan East Peoria, IL.

Mauser Merke - 6.35.........25 ? - 2'' ?? - Blue - 401051 -

Front right side of barrel. Cannot figure what it is. Excellent condition I'm looking for some history on this. And the year. Supposedly it's a German Officers gun. Thanks

Alan, the maker name is Mauser Werke not Mauser Merke. Unfortunately there are no records available that would enable one to find out who German firearms were sold or issued to. If you contact Mauser, they will tell you that all records were destroyed during the war. The German officer's gun story is common but without documentation, it is not worth much. I can tell you that this is not a standard military issue weapon, if it was in the possession of an officer, he probably purchased it privately. Marc

# 11743 - Savage Model 99 250-3000 Value
Tim Indiana, Pa.

Savage 99 - 250-3000 - 20'' - Blue - 345222 -

This gun is a carbine. Has barrel band, no pistol grip. This gun is approximately 85-90%. Is there very much of a market demand. What is the approximate value.

Tim, the Savage Model 99 250-3000 is a very popular gun. Values range from about $200 to over $900 depending on condition and configuration. It has been my experience that the model is usually a quick seller. Marc

# 11741 - Winchester Model 1910 Information
Judy Hilliard, FL

Winchester 1910 SL - 401 Caliber - 20 inches - Nickel - 2691 -

Are there many guns like this around, what would its value be, and where can you find ammunition for it?

Judy, the Winchester Model 1910 Sporting Rifle was an improvement of the earlier Model 1907. The M1910 was identical externally with the M1907 except that it had a larger ejection port. The M1910 chambered a special cartridge (the 401 Winchester) which was designed to exploit the rifles blowback action to its limits. Standard M1910 rifles had a plain pistol grip butt with a rubber buttplate and a half-length forend from which the cocking rod protruded. Selected stocks and butts and fancy fine checkering, could be special ordered from the factory. The M1910 was introduced in the spring of 1910 and discontinued in 1936 after about 20,786 rifles had been manufactured. Blue book values for this model range between $300 and about $800 depending on condition. Marc

# 12111 - One Rifle Barrel And One Smooth Barrel Gun

I have an antique gun inherited from my uncle. There are no markings. It is a side by side with one barrel rifled and one barrel with rifling. It has two triggers, a flip up rear sight behind the two external hammers. There is a lever when turned to the right opens up the breech. On each side of the receiver and on the bottom there is engraved metal, as well as on the trigger guard. The stock has a cheek piece and is straight except that part of the trigger guard assembly forms a slight pistol grip. Midway up the barrel there is sort of a squared off version of an open sight but there is no front sight. It also has a sling swivel towards the front of the gun and a screw with sort of a washer for the back sling swivel. Any help identifying this firearm will be greatly appreciated. Thank You

Richard- Sounds like a nice gun, probably European, and a souvenir brought home after WW1 or WW2. We really don't have much info on these old "combination guns." Most were made to order for a wealthy customer, and are fine examples of the gun makers artistic and mechanical skills. Be careful about trying to shoot them, as they often require oddball ammunition, and should be inspected by a competent gunsmith prior to attempting to load or shoot one. John Spangler

# 12064 - Commercial M1917 S&W With Target Sights
Rick, Lakeland, Florida

Smith & Wesson - Model 1917 Rare ''Army'' Commercial Model - 45 - 5.5 - Blue - 113458 -

All markings that were on the Military Model. EXCEPT, this has Factory Target Sights. According to what I can find on the net and in the Blue Book of Guns 25th Addition, this Model 1917 fits the description of the rare Army commercial guns that were manufactured between, May 14, 1946 & July 25, 1947. Approx. 991 were mfg. The book notes a 200% mark up for the commercial, a 200% mark up for the factory sights but there is no value listed for the rare ARMY COMMERCIAL model of which less than one thousand were mfg. Has anyone as of yet come across a value on this rare gun? All numbers match. Overall I believe it to be 90%. I don't have the gun with me as I type this and I am not really positive of the serial number right now but I think that I am close.

Rick- I really do not know (or care) much about S&W pistols so please excuse my brevity. The best reference on Smith & Wessons is the excellent book by Jim Supica and Richard Nahas "The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson." They believe that less than FIVE of the target model variation were made, and give a good description of the sights on one. For a fanatical S&W collector (yeah, if fanatical people collect Beanie Babies, I guess there is nothing wrong or immoral about being a fanatical S&W collector) these are worth some serious five figure prices. If you are potentially dealing with a gun in that range, it would be well worth investing less than $40 in the book to check it out in detail, and probably try to get a letter from S&W on it as well. John Spangler.

# 12040 - Winchester Model 92 Carbine Sight
Tom, St. Pete, FL

Winchester SRC - Model 92 - 25-20 - Blue - 859526 -

This rifle has a Lyman Tang Peep sight. Could this be a factory installation? I couldn't find anything related to this in the archives. Thanks for your time. Tom

Tom- George Madis'research has found that all Model 92 rifles and carbines were factory drilled and tapped for tang sights. At least 4,300 were sold with special sights, but I am not sure if that includes tang sights installed, or other special barrel mounted sights, or a combination of both. If you are really curious, you can order a "factory letter" from the Cody Firearms Museum and that should indicate if special sights were included. My gut feeling is that when it was purchased the dealer asked "Would you like fries.. err, a tang sight with that?" John Spangler

# 11740 - Colt New Service 44-40

Colt - New Service - 44-40 - 308XXX -

Patent markings: August 1884 June 1900 July 1905 I have been looking on the internet but cannot find this revolver. I would like to know the approximate value for sale purposes Thank you

Robert, you did not indicate any special markings so your revolver must be a commercial model. Values for commercial New Service revolvers range from about $800 to about $2000 depending on condition, but it has been my experience that commercial models are often difficult to sell. There is much more demand for military models. Values for the New Service Model 1917 Army range from $400 to about $1800, values for the New Service Model 1909 Navy Model range from $900 to about $3000 and values for the New Service Model 1909 - USMC range from $900 to about $3500. Marc

# 12252 - Mod 15 E 22lr
Chris, Long Beach, Ca

Fie, Miami Fl - Mod 15 E 22lr - 22 Six Shot Revolver - 4 In. - Don't Know - E 704 361 -

I was curious if anyone knew what this piece is worth.

Chris, I am sure that someone knows what your piece is worth but this is not a forum so you will have to settle for what I can tell you. Value is determined by the price that an interested but not desperate buyer would be willing to pay and the price an interested but not desperate seller would be willing to accept on the open market assuming a reasonable period of time for an agreement to arise.

I often see this type of revolver offered at gunshows in the $50 - $100 range. I am not a big fan of inexpensive import revolvers like this. You may find it would be worth the added investment to trade your revolver in on a nice sturdy and reliable Ruger. Marc

# 12310 - Mauser Training Rifle

Mauser - Sportmodell - 22 - 25 - Blue -

Right side of the chamber is''Deutsches Sportmodell'', on the left side is Mauser-Werke A.G. Oberndorf''. Ahead of the ejection hole is serial #''1474'', next to it Crown over''B'' and Crown over''U''. In back of the receiver is the''Mauser Banner''.Further along the barrel next to the receiver is Crown over''B'' and Crown over''U'' and Crown over''G''. Also the number 459. Further along the barrel''KAL. 22 Lang fuer Buechsen(I have substituted the-ue- for the umlaut). In front of the rear sight is''Ch51''. The sight is calibrated from 25 to 200 meter. The stock ends at the front barrel band, there is no handguard. The barrel is clean inside and oiled, the wood stock is in excellent condition, but the leather strap is the worse for wear. I believe this rifle was made shortly after WWI, when the treaty of Versailles forbade the Germans from making large bore rifles and the shifted to 22 caliber. What is the potential value of this rifle.

Herbert, originally this was a .22 caliber military training rifle. The proof marks that you mention (crown over B, U, &G) sound like German nitro proofs that were used circa 1912 - 1939. Your Treaty of Versailles theory may initially sound plausible but .22 caliber training rifles like this were used by many countries. I have personally owned examples that were used for training by the USA, France, Britain, Germany and Israel. I doubt that treaty restrictions had anything to do with the reason that your rifle was manufactured.

Training rifles like yours are quite popular, some collections focus only on training rifles from various countries. Values for examples in excellent original condition can go as high as $750 or more. Unfortunately your rifle is not in original condition, the stock has been shortened at the front, the handguard has been removed and the sling is a later replacement. Values for rifles like yours that have been altered are in the $250 to $300 range. Marc

# 12042 - Inland Carbine History

General Motors Inland Division - 30 Caliber - 18 Inches - Don't Know - 2912821 -

Top of receiver by forward/upper stock/handgaurd it is stamped 'U.S.CARBINE CAL. 30 MI', rear windage sight is stamped 'I.R.CO.', magazine release button/mechanism stamped 'BR', barrel stamped by forward sight 'INLAND MFG.DIV. GENERAL MOTORS 10-43', strap on forward end of stock that holds bayonet and strap mount is stamped 'J.M.Q.', the stock is stamped with several markings; 'P', 'H', 'RA-P'. The upper stock seems to be newer and of different wood than the lower stock. The lower stock shows wear in the area where your hand would hold it while firing. The serial number is stamped on the top by the rear sight and slightly under it, also it says 'INLAND DIV' above the number. There is a poorly stamped identical serial number stamped just behind the bolt opening on top. What information is available on this rifle? If issued during WWII, which branch of service received it, was it used in any active combat arena's, and if used in combat where was it used? Does this item have any value and should I shoot it or store it? Is it indeed an M-1 as it appears to be? Thank you for your help, I appreciate it.

Sir- These are excellent questions that most collectors would like to have answered about their guns. I would like to smart, handsome and rich, but that's not going to happen either.

The only place where you might find some history on your specific gun is on the Springfield Research Service portion of our other site but I checked and there is nothing on this serial number. The barrel date of 10-43 is about right so we can assume it was made in late 1943, and at that time guns were being issued as fast as they were delivered. We can safely assume it was "used" but perhaps as a training gun in a stateside facility, or by MPs guarding the storage areas at some obscure base or storage area in the U.S. or overseas. Maybe it went to a combat unit that fought its way ashore on D-Day or with Marines at Iwo Jima, but there is no way to know for sure. If this specific gun did none of the exciting sexy stuff, it at least is a representative example of those which were used. At some point it was overhauled, probably in 1945, to replace the original "flip" style rear sight with the adjustable sight. Since that partially obscured the serial number, the number was stamped again ahead of the sight, in accordance with the modification order that directed installation of the new sight. It probably got the new band with the bayonet lug about the same time, or maybe later. At some point it went through Raritan Arsenal in Metuchen, New Jersey, as shown by the RA-P on the stock. That may be the original stock if it was simply an inspection, but it could have been taken from another gun if they were in the process of overhauling thousands of carbines, and then reassembled with serviceable parts taken at random from big piles. While upsetting to the collectors who like everything exactly as originally delivered, these "mixmaster" guns reflect the guns which were used in active service, often for multiple tours instead of being sheltered in the back of some armory far from combat. Many carbines were sold to NRA members in the 1960s for about $17.50, and this may be one of them. As far as shooting or just hanging it on the wall, that is up to you. Unless it is in pristine condition, I do not hesitate to shoot my Carbines, and they are great fun. All U.S. army carbine ammo was made with non-corrosive primers so they are not nearly as picky about immediate cleaning as with .30-06 rifles. Collectors like carbines and prices are above $500 for most of them. This is up from about 12-15 years ago when you could buy all you wanted with BLUE SKY import markings on them for about $119, or less if you bought 10 at a time. Enjoy! John Spangler

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