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# 14663 - McKeever Cartridge Boxes- 2nd Vs. 3rd Model
10/29/2013
Austin, TX

15113 MCKEEVER .45-70 Springfield - 45-70 - Other - 58543 -

I have looked at your similar items for sale and concluded that my cartridge box matches your sale item 15113 . It is marked Watervliet Arsenal. The box has a well defined US in circled stamp. The leather seems to be intact, with some distressing on the front. There has been no cleaning or polishing. All the webbing is intact. The box contains 7 45-70 carts. These are marked WRA CO. The only difference from your sale box photo is the absence of the washer on the fastening pin. It does not appear there was a pinned washer on the box. This box came as a component of a rifle, 1973 Springfield, with strap, bayonet, and bayonet case that could be carried on a belt. Bayonet case is market with a brass US escheon on the belt strap, the bluing is nearly intact. All parts are complete including cleaning rod. I was told this gun was used as a parade rifle and never fired. It has been in my care for over 50 years. I have been suspicious that the Box was not of the same era as the 1873 rifle. Is there any way to confirm a range or approx mfg. dates for the cart. box? And the rifle?

Answer:
Austin- Your box sounds like a perfectly normal, unaltered “Third Model” McKeever box, the only difference between that one and the one on our page is that ours is the “Second Model” which had the brass reinforcement around the tab to hold the box closed.

Your rifle, 58543, sounds like a nice gun. It along with the other accoutrements you describe all sound like normal original Indian War era items, although date probably range from the late 1870s to early 1890s, but close enough for government work. John Spangler


# 14783 - Another What's My 94 Worth
10/29/2013
Matthew, Williamsburg, Pa

Winchester - Model 94 - 30-30 - Not Sure - Don't Know - 1811838 -

I purchased this rifle at an auction and was wondering what it may be worth

Answer:
Matthew, I think the best time to find out how much an item is worth is before you spend your hard earned money on it. I don't have much use for auctions as a buyer because they seem to have a way of getting people to spend too much money on things. When the time comes for me to sell, of course, that is another story.

Your Model 94 was manufactured after 1964 so collectors will not have much interest in it. I see post 64 Model 94 Winchesters, like yours, selling at gun shows at prices ranging from $150 to over $400 depending on condition. Hope that you didn't spend too much. Marc


# 14659 - Name On British Gun Is Maker Or Seller?
10/26/2013
Great Britain

Unknown - Pocket Percussion Pistol - 40-44 - 4''approx - Other - NONE -

Stanley Peterborough, engraved on top barrel flat, engraved side locks and hammer, rudimentary sights, well made overall. Is it possible to determine who made this gun, was it Stanley of Peterborough or a proprietary gun maker probably to be marketed by wholesalers eg Stanley of Peterborough. Many thanks.

Answer:
Sir- That is an excellent question. In the British gun world, it is very common to find names on guns but difficult to tell if the name is the maker, or the seller. Many sellers, often very high end ones, would arrange for a maker to turn out arms marked only with the seller’s name. This was always good advertising, and such sellers were often suppliers of a broad range of merchandise. Think of them as being similar to a Cabelas or other major sporting good retailer where you can buy your gun, ammunition, the latest fashionable garments and boots for your hunt, maybe some cooking and camping gear, some food and probably a few other things you just have to have to show your good taste and wealth while enjoying a bit of sportsmanship afield.

Back to the gun at hand. I was unable to find any entry for Stanley or Peterborough as a maker. Under Peterborough (the place in England) there was no Stanley listed as a maker Baily & Nie’s British Gunmaker.s I had no better luck in the three volume Heer Der Neue Stoeckel listing of makers. Therefore Stanley is, in this case the seller, I presume. John Spangler


# 14782 - Remington Model 30
10/26/2013
Terry G Jr.

Remington - 30-s - Springfield 30-06 - 24'' - Blue - 26322 -

REP DE I want to find the date of manufacturing and its possible value! I don't want to sell it but would like to know the story behind it! Just pure educational reasons. Thank you!

Answer:
Terry, the Model 30 was the first high-powered bolt-action sporting rifle produced by Remington. After the end of WWI, Remington had a large stock of military M1917/P14 parts remaining in inventory. The Model 30 was Remington's attempt to turn a profit on their surplus parts by making them available to the commercial sporting market.

Although the first Model 30 rifles were manufactured from surplus military parts, modifications were made as production progressed and later rifles were made with newly manufactured commercial parts. Most early Model 30 rifles were chambered in the military .30-06 caliber that was used in the M1917, but as time went on, rifles became available in a wide variety of chamberings. Remington produced the Model 30 from 1920 to 1940, total production was 22,730. You can use our OldGuns.net manufacture dates program to find the year that your rifle was manufactured, there is a link to the program on our menu bar. Marc


# 14780 - MLE 1936 Authentic?
10/22/2013
BEAU, BELOIT, KS USA

MAS MLE 1936 - 308 - Don't Know - Q11886 -

G6919, stamp on barrel ma 1937, France on receiver with some other letters, all parts are marked with g. How to check whether its authentic and what is value?

Answer:
Beau, I am not sure that I understand why you would have cause to think that your rifle may not be authentic. I have never heard of this model being counterfeited. Since collector demand is not high, values for these never seem go much over about $500. I do not think that there is much incentive for people to waste their time manufacturing fakes. Marc


# 14656 - Old Muzzle Loader Long Arm
10/22/2013
Jackie Finger, Kelleys Island, Ohio

Ashmore? - Don't Know -

Has warrentied on it possibly ashmore? or ashmo__? warrentied has name possibly tiler leinger on butt of stock on name plate. trying to find history of my gun, it is marked 1828 on name plate, have not found serial number, just started to examine last night. Has been in my family for many decades, have 3 revolutionary guns in family this is the one I have access in my possession.

Answer:
Jackie- I regret I cannot tell you much about this without seeing some good photos. It is always good to see old family pieces remain in the family where their history and that of their ancestors can be appreciated and honored. About all I can tell you is that Ashmore was an English maker of locks, and they were imported in huge numbers for use by American makers for much of the early 19th Century. John Spangler


# 14655 - Dummy Stinger “eject Missile” Component
10/19/2013
Bill, Weeki Wachee, FL

Unknown - Eject Missile - 2.625 - 42 '' Overall Length - Other - 3526 -

18876/13049395`G and 18876 - 3049323-M on a 42'' long, 23 Lb, blue finned aluminum & stainless steel, fired, inert, two piece ''Eject Missile'' (from a 1980`s Amry AMDF). Photos available. Mistakenly removed from a FT Gordon, GA Multi-Purpose Range (tank area) by a young Supply Clerk in the mid 1980`s. What is this beautiful deep blue aluminum, heavy piece of fired ordnance?

Answer:
Bill- I saw you also posted this on the British Ordnance Collectors Network, (http://bocn.co.uk) which is an excellent resource for questions like this. It appears that you have what is essentially a solid aluminum dummy object intended to simulate the weight of a Stinger missile. When troops are training on use of the Stinger, the training version will fire an ignition charge which expelled one of these dummy “eject missile” slugs in lieu of an actual missile. A neat item, and totally inert. John Spangler


# 14776 - Shotgun Question
10/19/2013
Austin, Picayune, MS

American Arms Inc. - Made In Spain - 12 Gauge - Nickel - Z82531 -

Engravings on Nickel and lever to crack barrel. I Was wondering if I can get a value on my American Arms Inc. 12 gauge shotgun. It is a single trigger over under it also says made in Spain and has 12/76 on it. It is in perfect shape I only shot it once when I got it.

Answer:
Austin, as I told the last shotgun question person, our main focus at FineOldGuns.com (OldGuns.net) is military firearms. We sometimes list sporting shotguns for sale in our catalogs but we do not have a lot of interest in collecting them and are by no means experts in this field. This is why we ask people to not send us shotgun questions. You must have missed that part of the instructions or ignored our request.

Since I do not know much about shoguns and I have never heard of American Arms Inc., I did a quick Google search and I came up with the following answer at: http://www.ask.com/question/american-arms-inc. American Arms Group Inc. makes specialty assault rifles. They also make gun parts and accessories. They have an online version of their catalog available on their official website. Hope this helps. Marc


# 14772 - T-14 Holster & Spare Mag
10/15/2013
Chris La Mirada CA

Nambu - T-14 - 8mm - Blue -

My inquiry concerns the standard holster that came with the pistol. If these weapons were issued with two magazines - where did the one not in the pistol go? I see no location or place on the holsters interior or exterior or description of separate. Mag pouches. Thanks for your ideas. .

Answer:
Chris, your question is a good one, it is not obvious where the magazine fits in a T-14 holster from looking at it. The magazine actually goes on the inside of the holster, it lays along the bottom edge, which is the same edge that the seem is on. Hope this helps. Marc


# 14654 - Spencer M1865 Carbine From The 1st Cavalry?
10/15/2013
Mike, Lakeville, MN

Spencer Carbine - M1865 - .50 - 20 Inch - Blue - 12008 -

''L TROOP'' 1 st CAVALRY on top of stock ahead of butt plate. EAW and DAT cartouche on left side of stock behind saddle ring. Top of breech has SPENCER REPEATING RIFLE CO. BOSTON MASS PAT` D MARCH 6 1860 M 1865 ahead of breech on barrel and behind the rear site. Serial number 12008 Is there information somewhere to validate whether this carbine did in fact belong to ''L TROOP'' 1st CAVALRY as it Is stamped into the top of the stock just ahead of the butt plate? Was it a common practice to do this and if so, in this location? Where is a good source to find out more of this carbine's (year of manufacture, military travels, etc) history?

Answer:
Mike- I saw the photos you posted over on the cascity.com website, and the numerous replies there.

I agree that the markings look to be old, and are in my opinion authentic. However, my opinion alone does not count for much without some facts to support it.

The easiest step is to see if this gun is listed among those for which the Springfield Research Service has found any records in the National Archives. It is not listed, nor are there any records at all for M1865 Spencers with that unit.

The next job is to see if Troop L of the 1st Cavalry ever had any M1865 Spencers. While I like MacAulay’s U.S. Military Carbines and his well researched summaries and occasional listing of “after action reports” on different arms, it really does not help in our search.

The best source for details on what each unit had, and when, is from the Army’s “Quarterly Report of Ordnance and Ordnance Stores” if they have survived. You could go to the National Archives and dig through them yourself, but fortunately Dusan Farrington already did that and provides transcripts of the data in his massive and superb Arming and Equipping the U.S. Cavalry 1865- 1902.

While not all records have survived, he does include ones showing that in 1866 and 1867 Troop L of the 1st Cavalry had 58 .50 caliber Maynard carbines while at Camp McDermott, NT [sic- probably Camp McDermitt, Nevada on the Oregon border]. The other Troops of the 1st had .52 caliber percussion Sharps carbines. In their Fourth Quarter report for 1870 all of the 1st Cavalry had M1865 Spencers, and Troop E also had 15 .50 caliber Sharps. Troop L had 4 of the Sharps carbines and 92 Spencers, but the geographic locations for the units are not noted. A year later when the Fourth Quarter report for 1871 was submitted, Troop L of the 1st was at Camp Apache, Arizona where they reported 74 M1865 Spencers and 84 .50 caliber (metallic cartridge) Sharps carbines, and nearly the same (but with 4 fewer Sharps) on the 1872 report. There is no specific information about when the Spencers were dropped by Troop L, but in the 4th Quarter of 1874 they reported having 70 .45 caliber Springfield carbines, and were then located and Fort Walla Walla, Washington.

So, we know that Troop L of the 1st Cavalry did indeed have M1865 Spencer carbines in 1870- 72. Your markings appear correct and original. I am not aware of other examples of markings from the 1st, although I have seen markings from some other cavalry regiments, and we could expect to find them on other arms or accoutrements of the period. Perhaps they exist, and are just not widely known. However, there is always the possibility that some talented faker has been busy, although they usually seem to focus on high demand and high profit stuff from the 7th Cavalry.

As far as general history of Spencers and production information, Roy Marcot’s definitive Spencer Firearms is your best source.

Hope that helps. John Spangler


# 14647 - Winchester Used By Steam Ship Company?
10/12/2013
Larry, LInn Creek, MO USA

Winchester - 1885? - .44 WCF - Octagon 27'' - Blue - 50949 -

R.N.SS Co stamped on top of barrel I was told by the seller that the gun had been owned by a steamship company. IS there any way to tell who the gun was sold to or what the markings mean? Thanks larrywall@earthlink.net

Answer:
Larry- Sorry, we cannot help with that. Cody has shipping records which would show the configuration when shipped, but do not record to whom the items were shipped. If you got a Cody letter with a shipping date, that might give a starting point to search for “R* N* Steam Ship Company” that was in existence at that date or afterwards. It may be an oceanic shipping company, or even a river boat company, given your location, but I have no idea. John Spangler


# 14771 - Physic Time Again
10/12/2013
Costa Rica

Remington - N/a - .22 - 20 Inches - Don't Know - 458137 -

Remington Arms Co. Inc. Arms Works Ilion N. Y. Made in U.S.A. Patents Pend. I want to know which model could be because there is no more information. Thank you.

Answer:
Costa Rica, you did not give me much to go on. If I knew the type of action that your rifle has, I may have been able to guess the model (or maybe not). The most common types of rifle actions that I encounter are bolt, lever, semi-automatic and slide (or pump). Here are some brief descriptions that I hope will help you to identify what type of action that you have:

Bolt action rifles have a bolt handle on the side which is lifted, pulled to the rear, returned to the front and locked down to cycle the action.

Lever action rifles have a large handle or lever that pivots out from the bottom to cycle the action.

Semi-Automatic rifles have an action that is cycled by the force generated when a cartridge is fired. They fire once and reload with each pull and release of the trigger.

Slide or pump action rifles have a grip called the fore end which slides back and forth to cycle the action.

Hope this helps. Marc


# 14762 - I Was Shot With It In 1953?
10/8/2013
USA

Remington - UMC - 380 - 4'' - Blue - PA 36166 -

Where could I find a Value? I think it was manufactured in 1932 because I was shot with it in 1953

Answer:
You have a dramatic method for determining the manufacture date of firearms. I can not imagine how your method works, but since Model 51 production ceased in 1927, it seems to be slightly inaccurate.

As I mentioned above, Remington manufactured approximately 65,000 Model 51 pistols from 1918 to 1927. The Model 51 was available in both .32 ACP and .380 ACP calibers. In the opinion of many experts, the Model 51 is the finest pocket automatic pistol ever made. The workmanship is of extremely high quality, and the pistol is well-shaped for instinctive shooting. The design utilizes a delayed blowback system to reduce the recoil force, making it pleasant to shoot.

The Model 51 has a grip safety also acts as a cocked indicator, if the grip safety is flush with the grip, the pistol is not cocked, if it stands out from the grip, the pistol is cocked. The safety catch on the left rear of the frame can only be set to the safe position when the hammer is cocked. Model 51 production called for very precise machining and fitting of intricate components. Unfortunately, there were not sufficient buyers prepared to pay the extra cost which was required to build this complicated design so production was discontinued.

In answer to your question, I think that the best place to find a value for modern firearms is Fjestad's Blue Book Of Gun Values, copies are available online from Amazon. Marc


# 14641 - Greene Rifle
10/8/2013
Larry

Greene Rifle - 1857 Under Hammer - .53 - 35 Inches - Blue - NONE -

Bolt action under hammer .53 caliber marked Greene patient 1857 This rifle is in mint cond. looks to have never been fired. Also have bayonet for it. Looking for information on rifle and value. Any help would be great. Thanks Larry

Answer:
Larry- The Greene rifle is a pretty cool weapon, and a legitimate U.S. military collector item. It is the FIRST bolt action and ONLY model of underhammer rifle ever adopted for U.S. military use. Also it is the ONLY one ever adopted with Lancaster’s patent rifling that looks like a smoothbore, but is actually rifles with a sort of oval shape instead of having sharp edges defining the deeper and shallower parts of the bore. These were made by prolific U.S. military contractor Asa H. Waters of Millbury, Massachusetts circa 1859-1860. The action was invented by U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel J.D. Greene. The U.S. Ordnance Department bought 900 of these which were delivered in March 1863 and a small number were probably bought by some states as well. It is believed that some of the latter may have been used at Antietam in September, 1862. In addition, 3,000 were purchased by the Russians, although little is known about the details of that transaction or what happened to the guns. But, it would be an excuse for a collector of Russian arms (Mosins, Berdans, etc) to add a Greene to their collection.

The Greene is a breechloading rifle, but used percussion caps for ignition. They used a unique paper cartridge with the bullet loaded backwards compared to most Minie Ball paper cartridges, with the base of the bullet at the rear of the powder charge. To load the Greene, you would take a cartridge and break off the powder part of the cartridge and throw it away. Then, put the Minie ball in the breech and close it and use the bolt with its push rod to seat the bullet at the front of the chamber, engaging the rifling. Then take a second cartridge and insert it into the breech, powder end first and Minie ball at the rear. With the bolt closed, the bullet against the face of the bolt helps seal the breech. Cock the hammer and place a musket cap on the nipple at the front of the trigger guard and you are all set. After firing, use the push rod in the bolt to move the Minie ball from the rear of the chamber to the front of the chamber. Then open the bolt and load another paper cartridge, close the bolt and add the musket cap and you are ready for a second shot. The Greene bayonets are pretty rare too, looking very much like a standard Model 1855 in the blade and socket, but the locking slot is a very shot straight slot and the locking ring is located against the rear edge of the socket, and the blade is stamped J.D.G. Other than the write up in Flayderman’s Guide and in Reilly’s U.S. Military Small Arms 1816- 1865, there is relatively little written on these, except for an obscure monograph “The Nye-Terry- Greene Breech-loader Complex” by Eldon Wolff from the Milwaukee Public Museum. Value is hard to determine, but sales prices seem to run around the same as the ubiquitous .58 caliber rifle muskets in comparable condition.

Hope that helps. John Spangler


# 14761 - Spanish S&W Copy
10/5/2013
Spain

Spanish - No Indication Noted - 38 Long Colt - 4.5 Inches - Nickel - 9760 -

Several markings but in Spanish. Top of barrel in caps is, FABRICADE ARMASDE BENITO GUISASOLA EIBARESPAN. On Cylinder there are numbers 91. On Frame left side were barrel joins is letters PN. The Frame has 5 screws. I appears to be a early copy of a Smith Wesson. Where and when was this pistol made, and was this model used by the Spanish Police?

Answer:
I have not been able to find any information on this particular manufacturer. It sounds like you have one of the many Smith and Wesson copies which were imported into the United States in the first half of the 20th century. Spanish Smith and Wesson copies often had a logo that was similar to the real one used by Smith and Wesson. One theory is that the similarity in logos was intentionally intended to deceive the unwary buyer into thinking that they were actually purchasing a real Smith and Wesson.

You should be warned that although workmanship may (or may not) be superb, Spanish Smith and Wesson copies have a reputation in general for making use of low quality, steel which may not be strong enough to handle modern day high- pressure loads. My advise would be to retire this weapon and not fire it.

The police departments that I am familiar with do not procure nickel plated sidearms for general issue as duty weapons. This makes me doubt that yours is a standard issue police service revolver. Marc


# 14638 - Sharps 4 Barrel Derringer
10/5/2013
Roger , Piketon, O.H.

4 Barrel Derringer - Silver Barrel, Copper Color Gun - 25 Cal.? - 3 In. - Blue - 28555 -

I have4 a 4 barrel derringer gun. On one side it says C. Sharps patent1859 on the other side it says C. Sharps@Co. Philada. Pa. I would like to know the price of it? it's in very good shape. The trigger rotates to each chamber each time it's pulled back. Any info would help out thank- you

Answer:
Roger- Value for these usually are rather modest, in the few hundred dollars at most range. There are a lot of them out there, and we have answered questions on them many times. Use the search tool on the blue menu strip at the left of the page to search our Q&A archives for our previous answers which have lots of history on these. John Spangler


# 14635 - 1903A3 With Chromed Parts
10/1/2013
David, Banner Elk, North Carolina

U. S. Remington - 03-A3 - 30-06 - 23 5/8 Inch - Blue - 3987391 -

There are seven different circles and squares with numbers inside located on both sides of the lower portion of the receiver. I recently acquired a Remington 03-A3 with serial number 3987391. It is in very good condition except for the stock, which was cracked and patched. The stock has a washed blonde finish. The bolt carrier group, trigger, trigger guard and floor plate assembly are all chrome polished. Can you tell me the history on this rifle? Is this original finish for parade/formal occasions, or is it an after-market finish customization?

Answer:
David- I have no information on this rifle. I am positive that when it was delivered to the U.S. Army it had the normal parkerized finish. My guess is that it later got sold off as surplus, or donated to a veteran’s group and at that time it had some parts chrome plated to make it fancier for use by a color guard or drill team. Unfortunately, that hurts the value. But, as long as the barrel and receiver have not been plated, the other parts can be found with original finish and the rifle restored at modest cost. John Spangler


# 14770 - Try Our Manufacture Dates Link
10/1/2013
Dan Medford Oregon

Winchester - 75 - 22 - 28 - Blue - 48550 -

I Was Wondering How I can Find out what Year The Rifle was Made.? It was owned by My Grandfather. And I will Probably be looking to Sell it sometime in The Next Year if You are interested. Thanks so Much for Your Time.

Answer:
Dan, the Winchester Model 75 was manufactured with the same barrel length, and trigger pull length as the model 52 but it was 22 ounces lighter than the Standard grade Model 52. The action was a military type, developed especially for this rifle. The Standard box magazine held five .22 long rifle cartridges. Barrels were 28" long, with a diameter at the shoulder of approximately 1". The Model 75 was available in Sporting Rifle and Target Rifle configurations. The Sporting Rifle came with a 24 inch round barrel and select walnut checkered pistol-grip stock and forend. This rifle was furnished with either open rear sights or a Lyman 57 E receiver sight. The Target Rifle configuration had a 28" round barrel with plain walnut pistol-grip stock and forend. The Target Rifle was furnished with either a Winchester 8-power telescope or a variety of target sights. The Model 75 was discontinued in 1958 with about 89,000 sold.

Values for Model 75 rifles range from around $200 to over $1400 depending on configuration and condition. Values for rifles that have been re-finished are about 1/2 or less the value of a Model 75 rifle in the same condition that has not been re-finished. Let us know when the time comes to sell.

To find the date of manufacture, please check the Winchester manufacture dates link on the FineOldGuns.com menu. Hope this helps. Marc


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