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# 874 - Springfield Model 1888 .45-70 Rod Bayonet Rifle
10/28/97
Scott

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Springfield 1873 .45-.70 32 5/8 Brown Patina 520XXX

Further info on #807 SWP cartouche on stock. The date is 189?. The barrel markings are as follows v p p. and the letter I to the right. The rear sight is a Buffington -third variation. R marking. The butt plate is the Model 1881 style. The rifle is marked as a Model 1873 but it has the round pencil type bayonet. The tip has a pencil tip with a cross in it. Why does this '1873' model have this style bayonet. Is this rifle valuable. As I mentioned before it was my late Uncle's and is in excellent condition. Your assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Answer:
Scott- Thanks for the additional info on this rifle (first asked about as question 807 in September 1997). Yours is definitely a Model 1888, the most common of all rod-bayonet rifles, as confirmed by the serial number and inspection cartouche date. The "1873" date you mention is on the breechblock, and is slightly unusual, as they generally used blocks marked "Model 1884" by this time. However, the blocks were considered to be interchangeable, and are an example of accepted mixing of parts done either at time of manufacture or while in use. (Yes, I know there is a little paperback that would insist I am wrong, but I would insist they are wrong!) Value on this model in brown patina condition is probably around $500.00... John Spangler


# 873 - Walther Model OSP Target Pistol
10/28/97
Charles, Orlando, Fl.

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Carl Walther Unknown 22 Short adjustable by adding different barrels Blue 204XX

On the barrel it has OSP 22 cal short. Above that has Walther in a wavy banner. On the receiver it has Carl Walther Waffenfabrilk Uim/Do. Made in W.-Germany Also just above the Ser. No. there is a very small design which I cannot make out Next to that are the letters IC. Next to that looks like a branch with leaves on it. Can you tell me what kind of hand gun this is? It is a semi auto and holds a five round clip. The barrels are interchangeable and so is the trigger housing group. This Weapon also has a custom target grip on it. I guess it is some kind of target pistol but have no idea what kind. Thank you. Chuck

Answer:
Chuck, you have a Walther Model OSP. The Model OSP was introduced in 1968 by Walther for international target competition and meets all ISU and NRA competitive regulations. The OSP is a strictly functional slab-sided pistol, dedicated solely to the task of placing a bullet down range, on target as accurately as possible. The OSP's balance, feel and accuracy are excellent as is it's reputation as a world class target pistol. The grip is massive, with thumb and finger rests. The detachable box magazine fits into a housing in front of the trigger guard, and there is a stripping catch on the left side of the frame. The rear sight is fully adjustable and the trigger can be set to two different let-off pressures. OSP values range from about $400 to $800 depending upon condition... Marc


# 872 - Shotgun, Single Barrel "HERO" Brand
10/28/97
Frank H

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Hero Arms 12 Gauge Single Barrel Shotgun No Model # 12 GA 30 Not Sure-appears To Be Nickel Very Little NO NUMBER VISIBLE

No special markings plain shotgun in family a long time-made of a type of steel that does not rust easily as the gun was not cared for properly yet has little rust. Would like to know anything about the gun I can. I can find no one that is aware of Hero Arms and don't even know the year of manufacture. I know it has been in my family since 1905 but may be older. Any information about the shotgun would be appreciated.

Answer:
Frank- This is not a name that I can link with any specific maker of shotguns. It was used for a while by American Standard Tool Company on pistols, and later by the Manhattan Firearms Manufacturing Company on other pistols. 1905 certainly sounds like a reasonable time frame, as inexpensive "house brand" or "trade name" shotguns were at their peak around that time. Afraid that is about all we can do for you... John Spangler & Marc Wade


Rust

# 871 - Victory Lamp
10/28/97
Mike, Pensacola, FL

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

I have a 1919 "victory" lamp complete with patents. I have done the patent searches and they are for real. One version of the lamp has a "doughboy" helmet as a shade. Inside the base of the lamp is a factory sticker that says "75 mm Victory lamp Manufactured by the Snead & company This lamp is made from a US Government French-American 75 mm shell saved from the Morgan explosion". Finally the question is: What or where is (the)Morgan and when did it explode? I have ruled out Fort Morgan in Mobile Bay as being too early and likewise the confederate ironclad Morgan as also too early. I am at a loss. Any ideas

Answer:
Mike- Okay, suppose you were a munitions maker, and they signed an armistice yesterday, and a bunch of your product just got sent back as rejects after a big accident. What would YOU DO to try to keep from losing your butt financially? (Hint: the marketing guys and gals better come up with creative ideas to peddle the leftovers!) Smead & Company of Jersey City, NJ (not Snead, unless there is a typo in my source- "America's Munitions, 1917-1918" by Benedict Crowell) had a WWI contract to machine 1,100,000 75mm gas and high explosive projectiles. (Shell bodies were the same, but differed in filler and fuzing.) As of November 1, 1918, some 246,841 had been accepted. (Note that Smead was just one of many contractors, and about 44 million 75mm shells of this type were under contract in 1918.) I cannot identify what the "Morgan Explosion" is, but I can confirm what it is NOT. There was no US Navy ship named Morgan or Fort Morgan during the WW1 period. There were several accidental explosions involving military cargoes during WWI. The most famous was in Halifax, NS, but neither of the ships involved were Morgan (one that totally disintegrated was the Mont Blanc). I think there was a WWI era explosion in Jersey City, perhaps with the nickname "Black Tom Explosion" but I may be mistakenly joining separate incidents. This is not the post-WWI explosion at the USN ammunition depot at Denver, NJ, adjacent to the Army depot at Dover, NJ (both now part of Naval Weapons Station Earle, NJ). Anyway, I think this the Morgan is probably a civilian cargo ship involved in such an incident, or perhaps Morgan is a land-based geographic site of a train wreck/explosion. In any case, the folks at Smead had a heck of a lot of shells on hand and made up these "Victory Lamps" to peddle to patriotic customers. They publicized their contribution to the war effort, provided an impressive looking conversation piece, and got a few pennies on the dollar back from otherwise scrap material. I think they look a lot better with the M1917 helmet as a shade, but if your wife likes the yellow cloth one, I guess you are stuck with it that way. Hope this helps... John Spangler


# 869 - Mauser K98k Rebuilt With SS Markings
10/25/97
Karl new bremen, ny

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Mauser Kornbrusch Gew98 Scrubbed,s42/g Rework To Mod98k Config. 8mm Mauser Typical Mod98k Blue renum. (when rebuilt?) in 4nos.w/"u" prefix

This gun has both 1917 and 1920 stamps. Orig. WWI marks have been scrubbed but are still readable. On the barrel just ahead of the receiver is the mark "SSzza4" under eagle. There are no other SS marks on the gun. The gun is in really great shape, like it was never carried afield. It has a laminated stock, numbered to the gun; cupped buttplate. I'm pretty sure it's the real thing and has considerable value. My guess is that this is an early "procurred" SS gun, that was used in guard or parade duty, As such, who would I get in touch with if/when I want to sell it. There are probably collectors of WWII Nazi/SS guns out there, but I live in a very isolated area and only get to a gun show a couple times a year. I've had this gun for about 13-15years. Can you put me in touch with the right collectors?

Answer:
Karl -Sounds like an interesting rifle, but I am pretty skeptical about the possibility of it being a valuable SS issued rifle. (I am also pretty skeptical about people who get real excited about SS stuff, but we need not digress any further.) Richard Law's superb "Backbone of the Wehrmacht" is the best reference on the WW2 German Mauser rifles, and well worth the $60 price tag for anyone seriously interested in the subject. It briefly covers the conversions, and the rest of his data, based on exhaustive research, raises some problems with your rifle. Original markings were generally not removed in the German reworking, although post WW2 overhauls by various nations were much more aggressive in removing old markings, raising a slight suspicion about when and where the latest overhaul was done. "S/42G" was the code assigned to Mauser-Werke AG, Oberndorff a/N for use in 1935, and my understanding is it was applied only to new production. Rifles serialized by S/42G have only been observed to the "s" suffix, not the "u" on yours, so that is a problem. Laminated stocks were not used until 1939, a problem for a gun overhauled in 1935. The cup type buttplate did not come into use until 1941, so the stock probably could have been made no earlier than 1941. "SSzza4" under an eagle may look different coming from a keyboard than it does on the barrel, but it does not register with me as being a SS marking. Law shows known SS markings on K98k rifles on pages 21 (an updated Gew 98) and 169 (two K98ks) and in all cases the skull ("totenkopf" or death's head) symbol is used, with or without the "SS" runes. I would want very convincing evidence that "SSzza4" is a SS marking before attributing any monetary value to the gun on account of the markings. "Great condition" also concerns me, and leads me to believe it is a post WW2 overhaul of some sort. The really serious German militaria collectors have a group called the Karabiner Collectors Network (KCN) with periodic newsletter, etc, but I don't think they are on the internet yet. I have seen a similar group interested in K98k bayonets that you can find by following some of our links. You might also try selling it on the Century Arms Traders Den message board which seems to attract people interested in this sort of thing. Remember, you can only ship this to someone with a FFL. Sorry to disagree with your assessment of the rifle, but my free opinions come with a full money back guarantee! A paid appraisal would also come to the same conclusion. Hope this helps more than it hurts... John Spangler


# 863 - Shotgun, A.H. Fox
10/25/97
Steve, Tarzana, CA, USA

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
A.H. Fox Double Barrel Shotgun 12GA Unknown Unknown 219XX

The only thing on the entire gun is the following:Krupp fluid steel made byA.H. Fox Gun Co. Phila. PA This is the last one guys, I promise! I appreciate any help on this you can give me. This gun looks real old and has very ornate silver(?) engraving or scrollwork ( not sure of the proper term) all over. This was also handed down from the original owner through the family. Again, many thanks for your help. Best regards, steve

Answer:
Steve- A.H. Fox shotguns were made in Philadelphia between 1906 and 1930, and are all medium to high grade hammerless doubles. Savage took over the company and continued use of the Fox name after 1930, but those are in a different category. Values run from a few hundred to many thousand dollars depending on exactly which model you have. You can get a "factory letter" based on the old factory records. The cost is $20 per gun, available from Mr. John Callahan, 53 Old Quarry Road, Westfield, MA 01085. If his research can confirm the grade, then you can look up the value pretty easily... John Spangler


# 866 - Mauser K98k Rifle "PREDUZECE 44"
10/25/97
John oak hill wv usa

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
PREDUZECE 44 K98K 7.92 X 57mm <8mm Mauser> Unknown Blue 20XXexcept on bolt

PREDUZECE 44 w/ like a F above manufacture there is a S w/ a little v on top where the serial number is. a 7 on stock near bolt. Trianlge ui 43g or some letter near gun sight. I would just like some general info on the gun. where it was made etc.

Answer:
John- These have been imported in large numbers over the last 20 years. Most are reasonably good surplus rifles made on the lines of the standard WW2 German Karibiner 98 kurz (K98k). I think some were new production, while others were altered from rifles which used the 98 Mauser action and could be converted by changing the barrels or stocks. I believe these were made/altered in Yugoslavia (that's Bosnia, Serbia and Croatia this week) back in the days when Marshall Tito ran the place, probably at the very end of or right after WW2. Back then, even if people hated their neighbors, they were afraid to shoot them. Now they still hate their neighbors, but have Americans to shoot at who aren't supposed to shoot back. It might hurt their children! Hey Commander in Chief, what about OUR children in uniform over there? No number of American casualties will overcome centuries of hatred between those folks, so let's get out before we find out that their AK47 "real" assault rifles are more effective than the old Mausers they got rid of... John


# 867 - Musket- Neisse
10/25/97
andy

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Muzzleloader Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

I would like more information on a muzzle loader. marking are: muzzlr nieffe 81181844app. 65cal smoothbore app. 56" tall where was this rifle made. when and how many where made. does it have any collectors value. If so how much is it worth. thank you Andy

Answer:
Andy- In German, when the letter "ss" occur in a word, they are usually written as what we would read as "ff". I know this from my two years of high school German class, which I barely passed, so don't ask for any translations. Anyway, Neisse was a maker of German military muskets in the first half of the 19th century. Remember, Germany was not a single country then, but a bunch of different states, (Bavaria, Prussia, Hanover, etc) so a European collector would be much more precise about this. For you and me (or is it you and I? I wasn't that hot in English either...) "old German musket" is close enough. Most of these were made as flintlocks, and if I interpret your markings correctly (Sorry, I failed mind reading entirely!) your gun could have been made in 1818, and then converted to percussion in 1844. These marks are usually found on the tang of the buttplate, usually shaped like the top of a shield. Lots of these guns were imported during the Civil War, but not well liked due to poor quality and non-standard caliber. Collector interest in these is modest, but as a 'Civil War musket" they do attract attention because they are usually inexpensive. If the wood has been cut back (it was on the one that was given to me years ago) then you are looking at a $75-150 wallhanger. If the wood and bands are still there, then about double that. It is not unusual to see klunker muskets like this with very new appearing "C.S." markings being offered as rare Confederate pieces. Remember the Latin term- Caveat Emptor, which I think means "sucker" if you see one of them... John Spangler.


# 862 - Savage Model 29 pump rifle
10/21/97
Steve, Tarzana, CA, USA

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Savage 29 - 15 shot pump 22 Unknown Unknown No visible number anywhere

No markings anywhere that I can see. This has been handed down from my grandmothers brother to my father to me so no one has filed off anything. Any suggestions where to look? It has its nicks and dings, but is in pretty nice condition, does it have anything more than sentimental value? Thanks. Steve

Answer:
Steve- These were made from 1929 to 1967 (and thus prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 which imposed the requirement that all guns be serial numbered). Pre-WW2 examples had checkered stocks, later ones did not. With dings and nicks it sure sounds like a sentimental gun. Even in really nice shape these are only $200-300 items. Hey, speaking of sentimental guns, did you read in the San Jose Mercury News about "An unidentified man, using a shotgun like a club to break a former girlfriend's windshield, accidentally shot himself to death when the gun discharged, blowing a hole in his gut." Guess BATF needs to change the yellow sheets to require more than a single digit IQ to buy a gun. He probably stole his anyway... John Spangler


# 858 - British 18 Pounder
10/21/97
John, Great Falls, VA USA

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
WWI British 18pdr. Howitzer Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

Dates range from 1915- 1918. Manu. by British Royal Armoury with Royal seal under name on breech. I am trying to locate a new shell for the howitzer and possibly looking into a full restoration for the entire gun which is in good/fair condition. Tires are not original but all other parts except for one seat are WWI era. Where can I get this beautiful weapon back in the condition that it once was?

Answer:
John- First, in case there are any Sharps collectors reading this, we need to explain that 18 pounds is not the weight of the gun, but the weight of the projectile. In U.S. terminology, we would call this a something closer to a 3 inch or 75mm howitzer, although I cannot confirm the exact equivalent. If you want to restore this baby, first thing to do is make sure you are in compliance with the BATF's rules on breechloading artillery pieces. These are "destructive devices" and require all sorts of registration and the like, depending on if it is live, deactivated (DEWAT), or demilitarized (scrap). If your restoration involves reactivation, special FFLs are required for that kind of work. Work on this size stuff is more in the military vehicle field than the gun collector field, and you need to find someone who specializes in that sort of stuff. There is a nationally known vehicle Collector in the northern Virginia area who could probably give you better info. I think he is related to (or at least shares his name with) the Coors beer people. You know, Civil War artillery collectors used to use cement-filled beer cans as projectiles. Wonder if there is a connection? Anyway, you might ask around about how to get in touch with him. Our very own heavy ordnance guy, Jack Tomlin, can probably help you if you call him (801)882-0420 (mountain time zone), but he is about 2,000 miles from your location. Unlike restoring an old Enfield for a few bucks, you are probably looking at a big pile of bucks, and will have a hard time finding a nearby range to shoot your toy when finished. I think there is periodical "The Artilleryman" or "Cannoneer" for folks interested in these sorts of things. I would really like to subscribe but my wife won't let me stray any further afield than I already have. Good luck!... John Spangler


# 857 - "Pancho" Villa Pistol
10/21/97
Barry

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Colt 1911or 1911A1 .45 Unknown Unknown 315XX

I have a colt 45 1911 model serial no 31514 which is engraved with the words "Prop.Gral Francisco Villa. 1917".Can you tell me if this is a collectors item? If so what value would it have?

Answer:
Barry- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. We are assuming that this pistol does not have a "C" in front of the serial number, and is (or was) marked "Model 1911 U.S. ARMY" and "UNITED STATES PROPERTY". If so, your pistol was part of a shipment delivered from Colt to the U.S. Army in May 1913. I have no record pertaining to this exact pistol. However, some pistols with slightly lower serial numbers were noted as being with the Mexican Punitive Expedition or the 10th cavalry in 1916. Therefore it is possible (but not certain) that your pistol was in the area where it could have been obtained by Fransisco "Pancho" Villa. However, it could just as easily been obtained by someone else and marked with the General's name at any time from the day it was made until the day before you acquired it. It is well known among gun collectors that the general's widow was very busy, over many years, selling guns alleged to have been his property. While some of those may actually have been the General's property at some time, it is believed that most were not. I would not pay a centavo more for the inscription. I further suspect that the gun is not in very good condition, but that it is offered at a much higher price than it would otherwise bring, on account of the alleged connection with "Pancho" Villa. A little Latin lingo here "Caveat Emptor"- let the buyer beware... John Spangler


# 852 - Ames Sword
10/18/97
Terry

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Ames Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

Can you identify this sword, and what is the value? Blade marked on one side: US, GWC, 1864, and on the other side Ames Mfg. Co. Chicopet, and it also has JH stamped on the guard.

Answer:
Terry- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. Ames Sword Co. of Chicopee Mass made several different swords for the US Army during the Civil War. Two versions with light weight straight blades and brass grips with a single loop guard were the Model 1840 Musician sword and the Model 1840 Non-Commissioned Officer sword. These run about $200-450 depending on condition (and with scabbard). The Model 1860 light cavalry sabre had a curved blade and brass guard with three loops. The handle is wood, covered with leather and having twisted wire around it. These run about $250-650. There are a few other less common swords, but without a photo it would be too hard for either of us to figure out what the other is talking about. The US indicates it was made under government contract in 1864. GWC indicates inspection and acceptance by George W. Chapin who did this work during 1862-64. I cannot identify the JH stamping on the guard. If you send us some good close up pictures (Box 711282, Salt Lake City, UT 84171) we can probably be more precise. Let us know if you want to sell them. We would be glad to handle them on consignment... John Spangler--


# 848 - Winchester P-17
10/18/97
David

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Winchester Model 1917 .30-06 Unknown Unknown Unknown

The receiver and barrel are both Winchester, but many of the small parts have "E" or "R" on them. I want to get a rifle that has all the original parts. Did Winchester use parts from the other makers (Eddystone and Remington) when they made the 1917 rifles? Looking forward to your advice to help me decide if I want to add this one to my collection.

Answer:
Dave- With US martial arms there are very few "always" or "never" answers (despite the assertions of one popular series of collector guide books). However, to the best of my knowledge and belief the three manufacturers of M1917s used only parts they produced, unlike WW2 carbine and .45 production where there were lots of formal and informal exchanges, loans and integration of parts among the producers. As background, the three makers' versions of the predecessor British Pattern 1914 rifles were officially treated as distinct and separate models: the Pattern 1914, Mark Ie; Pattern 1914, Mark Ir; and Pattern 1914, Mark Iw. There is a British ordnance listing of parts they considered interchangeable. The earliest US M1917s made by Winchester were made on speculation, prior to U.S. approval of the M1917 design. These are marked on the receiver "U.S./ W/ serial number" instead of the later "U.S./ Model of 1917/ WInchester/ serial number" Problems with interchangeablity of some of the early Winchesters (among themselves or with other makers is unclear) resulted in a request by the AEF that they not be sent overseas. Most M1917s were rebuilt after WWI, and complete, matching examples by any of the three makers, with the original blue finish are much scarcer than most people realize. Most M1917s were given to Allies as foreign aid during WW2, and this has further diminished survival of good collector quality pieces. In less than two years (say August 1917 to April 1919) 2,202,429 M1917 rifles were produced, about the same number as the combined production of M1903 rifles by Springfield and Rock Island between 1904 and 1942. Hope this helps... John Spangler--


# 844 - Luger- Fake or ???
10/18/97
JPREID@aol.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Luger? Unknown Unknown Artillery Parkerized (sort of) Unknown

No markings. I collect Lugers. I purchased two "Black Widows" recently. The seller threw in a "toy." The toy was a fake artillery Luger that I had to look at twice before I was convinced that it was a toy. It is put together exactly like a real Luger but lacks any markings. I have substituted real parts for the fake and they fit perfectly. Is this some kind of training aid?

Answer:
Sir- Beats me. I have seen the "non-guns" that copy several different types that look really real. I don't know if real parts will fit. I am guessing this what you have. I don't think any dummy trainers were made, although there were some cutaways and the like, but all from real guns but probably lacking most markings. Anyone (or their pet dog) interested in Lugers may know more about these than me, and we would welcome corrections or better educated guesses... John


# 837 - H&R Magnum Cylinder
10/18/97
Tim, Everett, WA,USA

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
H&R 676 Revolver 22LR Or Magnum 11.5" Blue Unknown

Since Gun Parts can't supply me with a magnum cylinder, who can? I've already put the request on rec.guns. Thank you!

Answer:
Tim, even if you are able to find a magnum cylinder for your H&R, you will need to have a competent gunsmith fit it to your revolver and check it for timing and safety. The cost of the magnum cylinder plus the cost of the gunsmith work will probably amount to more than your revolver is worth. If you want a 22 revolver with both 22 L.R. and 22 Magnum cylinders my advise is to sell your H&R and then start looking at gunshows for one that already has both cylinders (you should be able to find one in the $125 range). Better yet. buy a Ruger Single Six with both cylinders... Marc


# 843 - Webley- WS Target model .450/455 Revolver
10/15/97
Bob

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Webley W.S Target Model 450/455 6" blue 125475

It has "England" stamped on the side I would like to know what kind of gun it is, and I would like to know how much it's worth. Thank you My e-mail address is Loaderdude@aol

Answer:
Bob- I get a headache every time I get a Webley question. Afraid I cannot do much to help you without a photo of the gun and complete information on all markings. Also, the .450/455 caliber designation is inconsistent with what I found in a quick check of Webleys. Send the photo to me at Box 711282, Salt Lake City, UT 84171 and we will see what we can do... John Spangler


# 839 - Browning 5 Shot Semi Auto
10/15/97
John Australia

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Browning Acier Special 12 GA 750 MM Blue 303XXX

Fabrique Nationale D'Armes De Guerre Herstal-Belgique The barrel weight is 1Kg 054 (grams??) The base of the barrel had some symbols including PV with a line and a griffin above it. An E over an LG in a circle with a crown on it and a horseshoe shaped symbol with 2.70 or 12.70 printed in it. It also had184at the bottom of the base of the barrel. There was a certificate with it No.33648 that had an original hand written signature of Le Directeur. It said that the barrel was 750mm and the pressure rating was 900 kilogs per cm2 and the length of the chamber was70mm. The envelope it came in had the serial number and code no. 21099handwritten on it. It has scrolling etched into the black metal. An old bloke gave me a 5 shot single barrel semi-automatic Browning 12gauge shotgun recently. It was still in it's wooden carry case and looks as though it hasn't had a shot through it. The barrel has Fabrique Nationale D'Armes De Guerre Herstal-Belgique printed on it and it is an Acier Special- C.12 - Cart. 2 3/4. Could you tell me a bit about it and also if it is worth anything to a collector, so I can tell the old fellow before he has to hand it in for destruction.

Answer:
John- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. You have a fine old pre-WW2 Browning "Light Twelve" shotgun made by FN in Belgium. They were made in various grades with the most highly engraved examples being exceedingly rare and beautiful works of art. The wooden casing and factory documentation would add nicely to collector interest and value, especially in its superb condition. It has survived 55-75 years due to the careful attention and safe handling of several generations of owners. Many collectors, or even shooters, would love to own that gun, and see that it survives for many more generations. However, your nation's stupid politicians were allowed to ban all semi-autos and will destroy this little piece of art and history. Yes, they will pay the owner a nice sum, which you will find yourself taxed to repay (with interest) over coming years, as the money for the guns is being taken from your health care money. American gun owners need to heed your sad plight and work like crazy and give financially until it hurts to keep our even more stupid politicians from doing as bad, or worse. Not knowing the specific grade, the value could run anywhere from $US500 up to many times that. However, in a few weeks the scrap steel and walnut splinters will be worthless to anyone. That won't be a good day, mate!... John Spangler


# 836 - Star Model A
10/15/97
Jason Worcester, MA

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Star? A? 7.63 6.5" Blue A56XX

On left side of frame AUTOMATIC PISTOL TRADE MARK Cal 7.63on the hard rubber grips TRADE MARK In between the words "trade" and "mark" on both the grips and slide, there is a six-pointed star which has lines radiating from it. the serial number is stamped on the bottom of the grip the backstrap is slotted to accept a shoulder stock, and it has a rear tangent sight graduated to 900 yds. (to me 900 yards seems a little far for a pistol!)The pistol strongly resembles a Colt 1911. It field strips just like a 1911and is virtually identical internally. The barrel is 6.5 inches with the last 1.5 or so inches extending past the end of the slide. It has a single stack mag which may not be original. The mag with the gun is either stainless or left in the white. It is not blued, and is not worn or rusted in the least. The bluing on the pistol is in excellent shape other than a few minor spots of surface rust. Overall the pistol seems to be well made. The fit and finish are similar to some old Colt 1911's I have seen. I am a fellow NRA member and think that your Q&A service is a great idea. A friend of mine got this pistol from a lady whose now late husband had brought it home from Europe after the war. My friend asked me to help him identify it, and I thought your service would be a good place to look. I found a picture of a similar looking pistol in Smith's "Military Small Arms of the World". It was listed as being a Spanish Star Model A Pistol Carbine. Is my friends pistol indeed a Star, or was my guess incorrect? If you could give me a little history on this gun I would greatly appreciate it. ! Is there much collector interest in this gun, and what! is its approximate value? I would say its in about 95-97% condition. Also is the differently finished mag correct, and what caliber is it? Thank you very much. I will be awaiting your response.

Answer:
Jason, Star Model A production started in 1921. The Model A was a modification of the Modelo Militar with a more conventional Colt-type slide and frame design. The Model A was available in 7.63mm Mauser, 9mm Largo and 45 ACP. Some pistols had the butt slotted to take a shoulder stock. The earliest guns were made without a grip safety but in later versions a full length grip safety in the back strap was added. The Model A was very popular with the Spanish paramilitary Civil Guard, and the perfected grip-safety pistol was adopted in October 1922 as the `Pistola Star de 9mm, Modelo 1922, para tropa de la Guardia Civil'. Modelo 1922 slides are marked BONIFACIO ECHEVERRIA above EIBAR (ESPANA) ahead of the starburst trademark, "STAR" and CAL.9M/M. They are also stamped with a Guardia Civil property mark in the form of a crowned 'CG' monogram. Early pistols have checkered wooden grips, and later production models have molded plastic patterns displaying the company trademark. There is not much collector interest in Star firearms and values for them fall in the $150 - $175 range... Marc


# 835 - Ortgies 6.35 MM Pistol
10/10/97
Robert

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Ortgies Patent Small Semi Auto Pistol 6.35mm Approximately 3 Inch Blue Steel With Wood Grips 34XX

left side /ORTGIES PATENT DEUTSCHE WERKE AKTIENGESELLSCHAFT,WERK ENFURT RIGHT SIDE/LETTER N WITH TYPE OF CROWN WITH CROSS ON TOP OF IT. SE.#34XX UNDER SIDE OF RECEIVER NEAR FRONT. CALIBER 6.35 MARKEDON BBL. IN BREECH. I would like to know the value, age ,history and if ammo is still available? my email address is ka2owz@hotmail.com

Answer:
Robert, The founder of Ortgies (Heinrich Ortgies) was a German but he lived in Liege for many years, and may have been connected with the firearms business there. During his residence in Belgium, Ortgies designed an automatic pistol incorporating certain ingenious details which he patented in about 1916. After WWI, Ortgies returned to Germany and set up in business in Erfurt manufacturing the Ortgies pistol. Ortgies manufactured upwards of 10,000 pistols and they proved to be such a great success that Deutsche Werke of Erfurt made him an attractive offer to buy his business which he accepted. In 1921 Deutsche Werke took over the Ortgies patents, tools and stock, and began making Ortgies pistols. Original Orgies made pistols are marked on the slide 'Ortgies & Co Erfurt Ortgies Patent', the grips came with a bronze medallion with the intertwined initials 'HO', these grip medallions were retained by Deutsche Werke for some years, and they also retained the wording 'Ortgies Patent'. Later production dropped both these features. Unfortunately there is not much collector interest in Ortgies pistols and values for them fall in the $125.00 range... Marc


# 834 - K98k Mauser scope mount
10/10/97
John, Montgomery, AL, USA

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Mauser mod.98K 7.92mm Unknown blue Unknown

bnz 42 My iron sights are VERY inaccurate, they are not number matched to the rest of the rifle. I would like to mount a scope on this rifle similar to the original type used by German snipers. Can you tell me if anyone makes a side mount scope base for the Mauser? I've looked at local gunshows and searched the internet looking, and I can't find any info. Help!

Answer:
John- If your rifle is very inaccurate, it may be a problem other than just a mismatched sight. Heck, it might even be an operator problem. Step one is to shoot on a bench rest and see what size groups it shoots, without messing with anything to try to get it to hit where you are aiming. If it won't group, throw it away (or sell it if you prefer) and find another rifle. If it groups, then look into adjusting the sights. If this rifle is a minty collector gun. please don't booger it up slapping some scope on it. If a clunker recent import, then you won't harm much. Original German sniper type mounts and scopes are a tad expensive (we are talking in the thousand dollar and up range!). Forget that idea, unless you got a lot more spare change under the couch cushions than we do. Check out our parts page in a few days. We are cataloging a Griffen & Howe side mount and base that were popular for Model 70s and Springfields and could very easily be installed on a Mauser. It has 7/8 inch rings which fit the older (better) scopes... John Spangler


# 833 - Iver Johnson Target Sealed 8
10/10/97
Jim Portland , Oregon

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
I.J.A. & C.W. Fitchburg, Mass. U.S.A. I J Target Sealed 8 .22 5 1/2 Blue 63XX

In good shape, worn wood grips, hand cross checked Barrel is Octogon shaped.This was my grand mothers pistol and my question is if you know the age of the weapon and a value.

Answer:
Jim, you have an Iver Johnson Target Sealed 8. Iver Johnson was a well known manufacturer of inexpensive firearms from 1883 to 1993. The Target Sealed 8 was manufactured from 1931-1957. There is no collector interest in Iver Johnson firearms and values for your Target Sealed 8 fall in the $75.00 range... Marc


# 832 - Springfield Model 1816 Musket
10/7/97
Chris, San Pedro, CA., USA

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Springfield Made In 1826 Barrel Loading, Flintlock? About The Size Of My Thumb Approx 42 In. Rusty Brown Unknown

There is a eagle stamp with the initials US underneath on the right side, the side with the cocking arm. Is this a rare firearm ??, Approximate worth?

Answer:
Chris- You have a model 1816 musket made by Springfield Armory as a .69 smoothbore flintlock. Your barrel is full length (42 inches) and the stock should go to within about 4 inches of the muzzle. These were the standard infantry arm of the Mexican War, and many were used in the Civil War, either as flintlocks. or after conversion to percussion ignition. If your musket is still flintlock, it will have a spring on the outside of the front of the lockplate, and a hinged cover {"frizzen") over the brass pan the sticks out next to the hole in the side of the barrel. The hammer will have a "top jaw" with a screw that can be tightened to hold the flint in place. If the hammer snaps down onto a "nipple" about 3/16 inch diameter by 1/4 inch high on the top or side of the barrel, then it has been converted to percussion. Several hundred thousand Model 1816s were made, including at Springfield and Harpers Ferry, plus by a number of others under federal contracts, and some more under state contracts. These are all pretty scarce in original flintlock and in excellent condition. They are much more common converted to percussion, and badly beaten and abused. See our links for definitions of NRA Antique Good and Fine; In flint Flayderman's Guide figures about $950 and $2,500 in good and fine; for percussion, about $500 and $750 respectively. Nice old guns. Let us know if ever decide to sell it... John Spangler


# 831 - Rifle- FN Mauser/J.C. Higgins Model 50
10/7/97
Darrell,Pendleton,OR,USA

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
J.C. Higgins Model 50 30-06 Approx. 24" Blue 583.XX

A fancy "FN (circled) Action--Made in Belgium" stamped on left side of receiver. Star over X, over unknown marking that looks like a lion on a family crest, over horizontal line, over P.V, over | \|/ \\|//The last marking is a crude likeness of what is probably a proof mark. A capital "P" stamped on the top of the gun just over the chamber and ahead of the receiver. I would just like some general information and history on the gun. It is a family heirloom that I am not interested in selling, just interested in its origin and value.

Answer:
Darrell- Afraid we cannot help much on this. These are basically commercial FN Mausers made in Belgium, with Sears (J.C. Higgins) markings. The other markings are typical Belgian proof markings. Very little collector interest in these, and value is probably no more than $250 or so. Nice heirloom, but not real valuable... John Spangler


# 830 - Smith & Wesson Model 30 (.32 Hand Ejector)
10/7/97
Eric denduo@usa.net

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
S&W 30 .32 4" Blue 40454x

I have a Smith & Wesson Model 30 (.32 Hand Ejector). It is blued with the more modern caustic blue and has about a 4" barrel. The serial number is 404,54x (stamped on frame and cylinder) and has a last patent date of 1914 on the barrel and 1917 on the walnut grips. There is the number 28,00x stamped both on the crane and on the frame where the crane meets it. My questions are:1. When was this revolver made?2. What do the crane numbers mean?3. Where can I get a reference for S&W dates of manufacture?

Answer:
Eric, Your Smith & Wesson Model 30 .32 Hand Ejector is a "Third Model". The Third Model was manufactured between 1911 and 1942, Third Model serial numbers range form 263,001 to 536,684. Sources indicate that the 28,00x stamped on your crane and cylinder are match numbers used in the manufacturing process (you may also find 28,00x stamped in various on other places on your revolver). I have been unable to document this match number information (maybe one of our readers can help). There are two good S&W books, "The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson" by Jim Supica and Richard Nahas and "History of Smith & Wesson" by Roy G. Jinks (I like the one by Jinks best)... Marc


# 829 - Shotgun- Winchester Model 1897
10/7/97
Gary, Boise, ID

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Winchester 1897 12 Gauge 29" Full Choke Not Sure, Parkerized E 596XXX

This is a hand me down from my great grandfather. I would like to know the history of the gun and its' value.

Answer:
Gary- Your Model 97 was made about 1916. Another one of John M. Browning's classic designs that will work forever if you take care of it, and occasionally replace the butt when it cracks at the wrist. The finish was probably originally blue. That's about all we can tell you... John & Marc


# 826 - Rifle- M1 Garand With "mixed Numbers"
10/3/97
Walter Gilmer, Texas U.S.

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Springfield M1 Garand 30.06 Unknown Parkerized 2535XXX

D28287-12SA on boltS-B10 followed by a small diamond on bolt B or 8 followed immediately by a 2 then about 1/2" another 2 under wood by operating rod. Under that follows D 28291 3255 by follower arm pinD36382 3 SA on operating rodD28290-12-SA on trigger housingC46008-1W.R.A. on hammer. I recently purchased this M1 from an individual who could not give me any information on this rifle. I really have several questions and would appreciate if you could help me. Is this a rifle made up from parts? Since none of the numbers match have I wasted my time since I want a WWII vet for my (just started) collection? If it is a "made up" rifle what is it's value? Could you tell me what year it was made? Why is there approximately 1/16" side to side play in the front sight? All I have seen at several gun shows have this play. Doesn't this affect accuracy? It appears that the gas cylinder lock does not tighten enough to seat firmly against the gas cylinder assembly but shouldn't the side lugs be tight enough to prevent side movement? Thank you for this fine site and I since I am new to this (and computers) I enjoy learning about rifles from it. I am sure it will assist me in making many sound decisions in making selections for my collection.

Answer:
Walter- Congratulations on owning an example of what Gen. George S. Patton called "The greatest battle implement ever devised." Your rifle is made up from parts, and the numbers do not match. However, it is important to remember that ALL U.S. military small arms are made up from parts. Sometimes a single manufacturer made all the parts for that arm (e.g. Springfield made all parts necessary for a M1 rifle) and other times only a few parts (National Postal Meter actually only made four parts, [receiver, bolt, trigger housing and slide] for their M1 carbine production and got the rest from subcontracts, many of whom made the same parts for other places making M1 carbines.) With the exception of some M1917 rifle parts, virtually all U.S. military small arms since 1900 (and most muskets and rifles after the Model 1842 .69 musket) had fully interchangeable parts. Any time after a gun left the manufacturer it was subject to having parts changed, as they broke or wore out, as they got mixed when 10 guys (no gals then) threw parts in a pile while cleaning their rifles, or during overhaul, and yes, by gunsmiths and dealers messing with surplus guns to make deer rifles out of them. Mixing of parts is not always bad, but picky collectors (especially wealthy ones!) prefer nothing be mixed since the gun was originally made. NUMBERS- With the exception of bolts and a few other parts on specially tuned National Match rifles, and the 1922 series of .22 rifles, numbers were not intended to "match." The longer numbers, frequently with a letter at the front, only indicate the official drawing used to manufacture the part. Some of the other numbers or letters indicate the "heat lot" of the steel used in making the part. In other cases one or two letters were used to indicate the maker (contractor, or subcontractor, sometimes both). Scott Duff's excellent books no t he M1 Garand are the best source of information on the details of these marking for Garands. (Readers please note that some other authors have copied this info and not bothered to credit Scott for his pioneering research efforts in the field. Keep that in mind when you decide which books on the Garand are worth buying!) Quite likely your rifle had been overhauled at some point, resulting in the parts from Winchester and possibly other makers being used when the rifle was reassembled and inspected and found ready for issue to "some other poor bastard die for his country." The serial number indicates it was originally made at Springfield around January 1944. Letters marked on the stock, or sometimes the receiver, might indicate where and when it was overhauled. The lateral looseness in the front sight is not unusual, and comes from sloppy fit of the guides on the gas cylinder in the three spline cuts in the barrel. Careful peening of the splines for tighter fit can be done for better accuracy, but I don't recommend it. Hope this information helps. If your collection will be mainly WW2 pieces, I highly recommend Bruce Canfield's "U.S. Infantry Weapons of WW2" or "Small Arms of the World" by Smith or Ezell (various editions). Duff's books and others will be handy if you want to become more specialized, or want to know more details. A $50 investment in good books may save you from making a several hundred dollar mistake. Final advice- "If you don't know your diamonds, know your jeweler." Some dealers are crooks, most are good, some are excellent. Pick carefully... John Spangler & Marc Wade


# 825 - German G98/40
10/3/97
Frank Plymouth PA

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown G98/40 8 MM Mauser Unknown black chemical Unknown

jhv 43 Nazi Waffenamts, all numbers match Rifle is in very good unmessed with condition with bright bore and solid wood bears no importer's marks of any kind. Where was it made? , is it worth anything?

Answer:
Frank- Few people would suspect that this rifle was made for the Germans, but in Hungary. It was an adaptation of the Hungarian Model 35 rifle to use 7.92x57 ammo ("8mm Mauser" to most folks) and thus be suitable for arming units other than first line German troops. These were well made. They have quite a bit of collector interest, but mostly for their historical value as the action is decidedly inferior to the regular 98 Mauser types for conversion to sporters. I recently saw a minty (97-98%) one advertised at $1250, but I thought that most of that guys prices were a little high. Depending on condition, I would guess more like the $500-900 range for a collectable one. Without import marks, yours probably came in prior to 1968. I got one back then, mail order, no FFL foolishness or anything, for about $25 or so. Of course gas was 25 cents a gallon and a new Mustang was about $2500. I was making $1.00 an hour working in a boat yard. We can help you find a good home for this rifle... John & Marc


# 822 - Savage Model 19? .22 Caliber Clam Rifle
10/3/97
marion

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Savage No Model Name On Rifle .22 Cal About 25" BARREL/RECEIVER FROM SAME PIECE Blue NONE

Savage rifle. Made in Utica, NY. Has 4 patent dates on barrel. No model name or number. Tapered barrel. Front globe sight. Rear miniature adj. peep of the type found on model 19 NRA's. Nearly full length finger groove stock. Nose cap at stock end. Bolt has what appears to be twin extractors and firing pins. Knurled bolt end. Bolt is bent. Has 1&1/4" swivels. Metal serrated buttplate with savage Indian. Beautiful walnut stock. 6 rnd magazine with knurled knob on bottom. Trigger guard and magazine floor plate is one piece approx. 7 1/2" . Serrated trigger. What is this! I cannot find a name or model for this Savage 22. The rear sight and the magazine look like model 19 and/or model 23 parts. Gun is in excellent condition. I hope it 's worth the 229 clams I laid out for it.

Answer:
Marion- You, as a willing buyer, have established, with the willing seller, that 229 clams is the fair market value of this gun. It doesn't interest me at all, so I wouldn't trade ten clams for it, even with a brick of ammo. My buddy Bill, a Savage collector, may want to dig up many more clams, but I don't know for sure. Anyway, I don't know what this 229 clam rifle is. The long stock sure sounds like the original Model 1919 NRA match rifle which Savage made from 1919-1933. Sounds like you know a lot (more than I do) about the Model 19, but maybe you are familiar with just the later 1933 version which had a better looking stock and improved sights. Beyond that, I'd need some photos (Box 711282, Salt Lake City, UT 84171) to dig deeper... John Spangler


# 823 - CZ 52 Rifle
10/3/97
Walter Gilmer Texas U.S.

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Czechoslovakian CZ-52 7.62X45 Unknown Blue? M113XX

Under rear ramp sight there is a triangle with the letters AYM. under those there is 029 then an X with a appears to be a bar through it then 54. Under this is a T in a circle and the serial number. Under the cover just ahead of the rear sight it is marked J 12775. It appears that the barrel is approximately 9 1/2" and is made with a nut type end for quick removal/replacement. The end of the barrel appears to be threaded with a protective cap. Can you give me any information and general history about this rifle?

Answer:
Walter- Czechoslovakia took a couple of foreign features like the trigger design of the M1 Garand, the gas system of Germany's Walther MKb42(W) and some ideas of their own ideas for their locally grown "intermediate" 7.62x45mm cartridge and adopted the resulting rifle in 1952. (In 1957 they standardized the CZ52/57 which used the 7.62x39 ammo of the SKS and AK family; this made the Russians very happy as the entire Communist bloc then had a standard caliber.) Mechanically, these are interesting and robust rifles. However, they were sort of like Betamax VCRs in a world dominated by VHS format. Therefore the Russians and Czechs gave a lot of them to various satellites in the third world, including the Cuban build up in Grenada, where they suffered much abuse. Lots of these have reached the US surplus dealers in recent years at very low prices due to their crummy condition, and the lack of ammo for them. "Small Arms of the World" is an excellent source of information for the background of this, and most other military arms... John Spangler


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