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# 1576 - Webley Royal Irish Constabulary (R.I.C.) Model
10/31/98
Chip, San Francisco, ca

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Webley R. I. C. .450 4" Blue 94808

bullet with wings WS. R.I.C. vol 45 cf Any history on this gun ? can it be loaded with smokeless powder ?

Answer:
Chip, the Webley R.I.C. or Bulldog was a blued 5 shot, solid frame, revolver with fixed sights and a distinctive curved butt. These revolvers were available in 2&1/8 - 4&1/2 in. barrel lengths. The R.I.C. model was manufactured from 1867-1939 for Royal Irish Constabulary (R.I.C.) and was available in .320 - .476 calibers, of which, .455 Webley was the most common. The Bulldog was one of Webley's more successful designs, and it was copied and made in several different countries, both in rimfire and centerfire, some manufacturers even made special ammunition for it. Values for standard .450 caliber models are in the $100 to $300 range while values for the rarer .38 caliber models can go well over $1000. Sorry but due to liability concerns we decline to answer questions about reloading. Marc


# 1580 - About the M9 bayonet
10/31/98
Alan, China

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown M9 bayonet Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

I am a knife lover, what I like the most is a M9 bayonet. before I saw your homepage, I only know Buck's M9, is that the one used for M-16? what is the deference between Buck's M9 and the M9 in your home page. I like to know any story about M9. Can any one in US buy a bayonet like M9? is there any limitation? I am in China ,Asian. can I order a M9 by sending you a Money order? Can you send it to China? Sincerely Alan

Answer:
Alan- The M9 is issued to only a small number of US troops. Most use the very simple (and cheap) M7 bayonet. Buck makes these to sell to people who want to buy them, either soldiers or civilians. There is no restriction on sale of these in the United States, unless it is some local law.

There are many variations of the M9. Very small number of early test bayonets were marked "XM9". Phrobis then made them for several years for the military while Buck made them for commercial sale. There were minor changes in the scabbard design, the way the blade was manufactured (forged or machined). Later examples eliminated the cover on the back of the scabbard to kept the sharpening stone from rubbing the leg. The screwdriver blade was moved from the tip to the side of the plate on the scabbard. Later examples were made by Lancay, then the marking was changed to Lan Cay. and the scabbard changed some more and more minor changes made on the blade. I think there are at least 7 variations now. The Buck examples are easy to find and LanCay examples are not available for under $100, new. John


# 1582 - British No. 4 Mark 1
10/31/98
Lon

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Enfield 303 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

I have a Enfield .303 rifle. I currently know nothing about this rifle and was wondering if you could give me some information on it. There were some markings on it. Right around the chamber area there was some numbers (#4 MK1). Just in front of this on the barrel there are some more numbers (might be the serial number 303 2-222). There was also a number on the band on the stock(M28115A). There was also writing on the barrel that said 18.5 tons per-then a box and like an = sign. Any information you can give me would be appreciated.

Answer:
Sir- Your rifle is a .303 British No. 4 Mark 1 rifle, made during WW2, and was the standard infantry rifle at the time, although many earlier rifles continued to be used.

The M28511A number is the serial number. I do not know the meaning of the 303 2-222 marking, but think it may be an importer's catalog or model number. the "18.5 tons per [square] [inch]" marking shows that it was proof tested in accordance with English law prior to be exported from England. These are well made rifles, very strong and reliable which served many armies quite well. They are very common on the surplus market and can be found all over the place at prices ranging from $60 for well used examples to $200-300 for one new in the wrapping with matching number bayonet. Gun shops and pawn shops have lots of them that have been "sporterized" (some nice, some pretty crude) at prices from $35 to $125. Ian Skennerton has written a superb book on the Lee-Enfield rifles (believe the title is the Lee Enfield Story) with loads of details for anyone who is interested in these. At about $60 it is highly recommended. John


# 1579 - Need Springfield 87a Serial Number
10/27/98
Jason

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Springfield 87a 22 Unknown Unknown Unknown

I have a 22 caliber Springfield rifle model 87a, I can't find the serial # though. It has some patent #'s (about 8 of them) the specifications, and the brand name and place of manufacture. I don't see a date of manufacture but know that I've had it for at least 15 years. I need the registration # to register the weapon on post (active military). Does this gun have a serial #? and if so where is it located?

Answer:
Jason- "Springfield" was one of the brand names used by Savage Arms Corporation, and they also made guns under the "Stevens" name after they acquired the Stevens company in the 1920s. The Model 87 was sold in several slightly different models under slightly different names until finally discontinued in 1987..

There was no requirement for firearms to have serial numbers prior to the passage of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, nor is it a federal requirement to retroactively apply serial numbers to any made before 1968.

I have two recommendations.

(a) Explain to whoever wants a serial number the fact above, and inform them that "not applicable" is an accurate and truthful thing to put down on the form. If they have a computerized system that will only eat numbers, then I would recommend they use "87" (after all that is the number used by the manufacturer to refer to that particular rifle.)

(b) If that approach doesn't work, remove the buttplate and mark it or the stock with a number (last 4 of your SSN?) and use that. If they insist on marking it on the receiver, remove it from the stock and mark it underneath so it won't be ugly.

After 26 years in the Navy, I understand how sometimes people get very zealous in performing their duty and refuse to let common sense interfere with the need to fill in every block on a form. Be patient, they are willing workers doing their best. In most cases their boss is unwilling to change anything because they don't understand the process and while unwilling to take responsibility to make any exceptions, are afraid to draw attention to themselves by asking their boss who is probably the same way. No one ever got in trouble for doing it the same way they always did things.

You say "post" so I suspect you are in the Army. It amazing that they are so excited about this issue when they probably have removed the gate guards and have an open base so bad guys can come and go without reporting the serial numbers of guns they may carry on illegally, but you get hassled for following the rules. Good luck. Hope this helps. John Spangler, Captain, USN (ret)


# 1573 - Why Aren't You Interested In Mine?
10/27/98
Miss C. in Texas

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Iver Johnson Owls Head 22 22 Unknown Unknown Unknown

Any special reason you advertise you buy guns but aren't interested in mine? (" Iver Johnson owls head 22 pistol). In good shape, has a small drop of something on grip. Been horse traded through several families. If the price is right I will let her go."

Answer:
Cindy- There is little to no collector interest in Iver Johnson guns of any type. They are valued mainly as inexpensive home defense guns. There are product liability issues connected with selling guns primarily as shooters, and we do not want to sell items where there may be any questions about safety. The older Iver Johnson's were okay in their day but many have not been well cared for and we are not willing to risk saying they are safe to shoot. We see Iver Johnson's and other similar revolvers offered for sale in the $25-75 range and extremely hard to sell even at those low prices. With the requirement for post 1898 handgun sales to go through Federally Licensed (FFL) dealers the cost of a transfer to a buyer would be nearly the price of the gun, making it nearly impossible to sell over the internet. With low demand, low prices, and marginal safety concerns, it is not cost effective for us to deal in these. We try to carry items that appeal to our collector customers. Again, we thank you for offering us this item, it just is not one that we can use. I guess several other families sort of felt the same way as they were willing (eager?) to trade it away. Many people are not sure what sort of gun they have, so we keep our offer to buy pretty general. We have been offered items in the last month ranging from a circa 1710 Irish flintlock to collections of several hundred guns. Some we buy, some we would like but cannot agree on a price, and some we cannot use at any price. Thanks again. Sorry we cannot help you with this one. John Spangler


# 1568 - Premier 22
10/27/98
Ron McCamey TX USA

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Savage ? Premier 22 Rim Fire 20 Blue NONE

I would like to know for sure who made the weapon and where I might find parts for it.

Answer:
Ron, Premier is a Tradename on used on rifles manufactured by J. Stevens Arms, and on rifles that were sold by Montgomery Ward. The Montgomery Ward rifles could have been manufactured by Savage, but if they were my reference material did not say so. The best place to look for parts is Gun Parts Corp. Marc


# 1564 - To Shoot A Repro / Commemorative Rifle?
10/24/98
Charlie, Fort Benning, GA, USA

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Cherry trapdoor Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

I am thinking of purchasing a trapdoor from Cherry's and want to shoot it. Should I buy the plain ol' production model, or would it be reasonable to pay the extra $$$ for the collectable "Deluxe 125th Anniversary model" (special finish, limited run of 50, casehardened block, special serial numbers). Remember, I want a gun to shoot.

Answer:
Charlie- In my opinion, none of the "commemoratives" being offered in the last 10 years have much potential for appreciation in value. If any, it is only for untouched, unfired examples new in the box. Fire one round and it will sell very slowly (if at all) at a price far below original cost. So much for commemoratives. (This is not peculiar to guns. Drive your new car off the lot and then try to sell it for what you paid for it.) The standard grade would be a better choice as a shooter. I do not know how they perform, but I know the older H&R repro .45-70 trapdoors have a less than enthusiastic reception among some shooters. The Pedersolis may be much better but I don't know. Unless you need one right away, you might want to wait just a little while. When new models are introduced by the Italian copyists, they seem to become available in several quality levels at varying prices within a few years. I suspect that this will be the case with the trapdoor copies as well. Hope this helps. John


# 1557 - Mazelier Pistols
10/24/98
Rachid Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Mazelier Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

I'm looking for some information about a French gunmaker named Mazelier. He worked at Paris around 1710 to 1732. I have a par of holster pistols and I want to know price of those pistols. The pistols are perfect, marked Mazelier a Paris. If you can help me with, I'll be glad.

Answer:
Rachid- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. I am sorry that I can not add anything about Mazelier beyond what you already know. I think this are probably very high quality pieces. We do not have much contact with the early French arms, and can not help on the prices. Check our links page and follow the bayonet links. Look for Graham Priest in England. I believe he has contacts who can help you. I have been to Rio twice with the U.S. Navy, and think it is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, looking upward from the deck of the Yacht Club, or down from Corcavado. We found the officers and men of your Navy and Marine Corps to be very professional, and the civilians very friendly. John


# 1556 - M1 Garand Barrel
10/24/98
Don

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

Need Winchester ww11 barrel, with drawing # read from clip latch side, low T&E, tight muzzle and bright shiny bore, excellent or better.

Answer:
Don- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. While not totally hopeless, your quest will be either very long and expensive or incredibly lucky. Your chances are much better of finding such a barrel in a rifle than loose, although there may be a couple floating around in the recently imported "parts kits." Whatever you do, make sure you don't end up with one from an outfit in South Carolina that seems to have several aliases (ATP being one) and operates from the Goose Creek or Charleston area. They have a reputation for being the source of numerous items which are either outright fakes or at least of very dubious authenticity. You may want to join the Garand Collectors Association to learn more and have access to a number of their collectors interested in this fine old rifle. Their website is http://www.garandcollassoc.org/ John


# 1520 - Post War PP
10/24/98
Drummond, Bethlehem, Pa.

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Walther PP 7.65mm 3"? Polish Blue 356921

"Pol-Brh" on left behind trigger"66" next to "antler" proof on chamber I would like to know the origin of this pistol. I assume it to be an ex-German police gun. Any Ideas as to where it's from? It is an Ulm manufactured gun and it came with two numbered mags and an odd little holster. Thanks

Answer:
Drummond, sorry to say that although they are great pistols, there is not a lot of collector interest in post war production Walthers, as result, I don't have much information on these models . The "antler" proof that you describe is for the Ulm proof house since 1952, so it is a good probability that your pistol was manufactured in the Walther factory at Ulm. Marc


# 1512 - Beretta 1934 Or 1935?
10/20/98
ADRIAN Vella, Paola, Malta (Europe).

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Beretta 1934/5?? 7.65 3.75 Inches Blued 4658XX

Marked PB on grip plates. Problem is that I think this is a 1934 model but all books I have say that the 1934 was made in 9mm kurz only with only a few being chambered for 7.65mm. On the other hand it could be a model 1935. How can I tell the difference between the two models?? If the finish on the gun is good, what would the gun be worth??

Answer:
Adrian, the Beretta 1934 was chambered in 380 ACP, (9mm Kurz), it had a blue or parkerized finish with a 3 & 3/8 inch barrel, fixed sights, and plastic grips. The model 1934 was Italy's service weapon in WWII, over one million were manufactured between 1934-1980. Many military Model 1934 pistols have a parkerized finish. Military pistols are usually fit with metal-backed grips. Wartime military slides were marked P. Beretta Cal 9 Corto - Mo 1934 Brevet Gardone VT followed by the date of manufacture. The date of manufacture is usually given in two systems (except on late wartime production models) the Christian calendar - e.g. 1942 - followed by a Roman numeral denoting the year of the Fascist calendar which began in 1922. Thus, an inscription might read 1942 XX or 1937 XV. Military weapons were also marked `RE' (Regia Esercito); RA (Regia Aeronautica); or RM (Regia Marine), while police weapons were marked PS (Publica Sicurezza) at the left rear of the frame. Model 1934-s were also sold commercially but only in relatively small numbers, since most of the production was taken by the Italian forces. Later production model 1934-s have an alphabetical prefix. Post war production models have serial numbers that start with C00001.

The Model 1935 was manufactured from 1935-1967, it is similar to the 1934, except that it is chambered in 7.65mm. The Model 1935 was principally issued to the Italian Air Force and Navy, and consequently, is most often found with RA or RM markings on the frame.

Values for these pistols fall in the $150 to $300 range depending upon condition. Let me know if you need an original holster. Marc


# 1555 - Thompson Clone
10/20/98

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Apachie Arms Thompson Clone 45 Unknown Unknown Unknown

Hi You may not be able to help, But Im going too ask anyway! Im Looking for any information on a Thompson clone I own. Its a .45 cal made by Apachie Arms Tempe Az. Pat. Pend The lower receiver appears to be made of metal, ( pot metal ) as is the vertical fore grip and compensator. I would like to know aprox. when this gun was made, And could any spare clips be found for it? it take's a 30 rd stick in the well. Ive seen auto - ordnance mags and they wont fit. any info would be helpful as too when this gun was made, or its approx. value Thanks

Answer:
Sir- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. I am not familiar with this specific model. However, there were a number of similar semi-automatic arms made in the 1960s and 70s. They look like a Thompson, but the actual mechanics are quite different. Most seem to have been made to use the 30 round magazine for the M3 "Grease gun". These have a sheet metal piece at the top and a distinct taper while the Thompson magazines are pretty well straight except for the bent over feed lips. In my opinion the Thompson is one of the most over-rated guns around. From my experience in the navy, these are very heavy, nearly uncontrollable in full automatic firing, and except for the late M1A1 military version, very expensive to manufacture. Sexy looking and psychologically intimidating, historically interesting, but far inferior to the Uzi, MAC, or MP44 (and probably the H&K stuff, but I have not tried those.). John


# 1554 - Spangler & Williams Gun
10/20/98
Mike

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Spangler & Williams Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

My grandfather has a rifle marked that it was made in 1855 in Monroe, Wisconsin by Spangler & Williams. The nameplate reads "C. Baker". Do you know if it's possible that this gun was owned by the outlaw Cullen Baker?

Answer:
Mike- The Spangler of that outfit was George, who operated in Monroe, Michigan from 1843 to 1900, son of Samuel Spangler who moved there from Somerset, Pennsylvania somewhere between 1834 and 1844. I do not know the time period that Spangler was associated with Williams. If it is a nicely made piece, than I might claim some distant kinship with that old gunsmith, but if a piece of junk, well then it must be some imposter who stole our good name. We are related to all the smart, good looking Spanglers, not any evil, ugly ones. I know nothing about Cullen Baker, but that is a possibility if he was of the right age to own a gun after the 1855 date of manufacture you gave. However, unless you have some pretty good proof, it would just as well be Charlie Baker, the chicken thief from Detroit; Claudette Baker, a noted suffragette and prohibitionist who shot up saloons in South Dakota; her besotten husband Mayor Claude Baker of Deadwood, South Dakota who ran off with an intern; or maybe even Lafayette C. Baker head of the Secret Service at the time of the Lincoln assassination and allegedly on to the conspiracy. Be real careful about stories that enhance the value of a gun. It is real easy to make them up. (I just did four in about two minutes for fun. If someone expected to make $50 or $100 a gun just for having a good story they could do a lot better, and a lot more of them. Confederate and outlaw stories seem to be especially marketable, and difficult to prove or disprove. Please be real careful out there. Some dealers heard there was a sucker born every minute, and hope to meet them soon. Meanwhile they are cheating the other guy so they can pass the savings on to you. John


# 1509 - FN Model 1900 'Old Model'
10/17/98
Jari, Vantaa, Finland

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
FN ??? 7.65 ??? Blue? 412539

Text Brevete.S.G.D.G right above trigger stanced text RV, with small lion? above. Separately letter E, all this marked in 3 different places. FN-singned wood handles Could you tell me the manufacturing year and model of this gun. Perhaps some information, if it was manufactured for some group especially???

Answer:
Jari, my guess is that you are trying to describe a FN Model 1900. The Model 1900 was developed in 1898, by FN engineers working with Browning's 1897 patents as their starting point, and continued production until some time in 1912. The Model 1900 was the first design to use the 7.65mm cartridge, which had been designed by Browning for this pistol. The Model 1900 was extremity reliable and robust, it was recoil operated, with a four inch barrel and a 7 shot magazine. The 1900 was adopted by the Belgian Army in March 1900, after which, it was placed on commercial sale and later adopted by many other continental military and police forces. Early 1900 grips were rather thin and embossed with a representation of the pistol and a small 'FN' logo, later the grips were more robust and bore the letters 'FN' intertwined in a florid style. A lanyard ring was added to the left rear of the frame soon after production began. The 1900 was the weapon used by Gavrilo Princip to assassinate the Archduke Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo, thus precipitating the First World War. Marc


# 1552 - Serial Number Information
10/17/98
Rick

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

Is there a comprehensive source for information concerning production and shipping dates, and shipping destinations for military weapons? I am interesting in researching the histories of some old guns, and would do it myself, if I knew where to look. Aren't there records from Springfield Armory that would have this kind of info? How is it accessed? Have I seen such information provided in your Q&A -where does the info come from? Do you provide this info as part of your appraisals? Do you know if Colt provides this kind of info in their factory letters? What should I expect to pay for authentic WWI-era diamond grips for a G.I. 1911 pistol? Do you have any? If you did, how much ???? Thanks for any help that you can provide.

Answer:
Rick- The short answer is that there is no convenient source for this information, and in most cases very little information of this type has survived in any location, and finding it is damn difficult. In practice, serial numbers were used by the military services mainly to hold individuals or commands responsible for arms issued to them. These were temporary records and were disposed of when no longer needed. In pre-computer days this was all manual record keeping, sometimes aided by carbon paper so that a typed list may have produced two or three copies. Frank Mallory of the Springfield Research Service (P.O. Box 4181, Silver Spring, MD 20904) has been diligently searching for this information for over 20 years now, and has found quite a bit, mainly in the National Archives. My impression is that for something like the Trapdoor Springfields where about 560,000 rifles and carbines were made he has found maybe 5,000 numbers scattered among many hundreds of documents buried in the midst of the tens of thousand he has examined. For all but a handful of the 5,000 numbers the only record is that the rifle or carbine with that number was at a certain place on a certain date. This may be a manufacture date or a test somewhere, or shipment from one unit to another, lost, stolen or recovered on a certain date, or just noted as present in a certain unit from a custody record that escaped destruction. Only in a very few cases is the gun listed on more than occasion. Very seldom are guns noted as assigned to a specific soldier. Considering that military arms probably were in use for about 20 years, that does not document a whole lot of history. However, the important point is that it is DOCUMENTED history from official records on those 5,000 arms, while the other 555,000 have NO DOCUMENTED history of their usage. Mr. Mallory has published the information he has found in a series of four books (Serial Numbers of US Martial Arms, vols 1-4). These cover virtually all types of US Martial arms from the Civil War through WW2 for which he has found information. For a modest fee he will provide a summary of all the information available on any of the arms listed in those 4 volumes. While a few may complain at his modest fee (under $50) I assure you that he is not even making minimum wage for his efforts, and you are getting a heck of a bargain. You can go the Archives and dig through the records yourself and will spend more feeding parking meters and paying their 30 cent a page photocopy charges than it would cost to get it from Frank Mallory. Even if he has not found your particular arm, he deserved the thanks of all collectors for his hard work and willingness to share it with others. (Send him a note to tell him this at: Frank@mbz.org) If we do an appraisal, we will check Mallory's listings and note any information contained there and refer you to him for full details. Colt, Winchester and some other makers can provide letters based on their records, for fees that range from $45 up to over a hundred. On military arms this will usually be nothing more interesting than "shipped with 499 others of this type on (date) to Commanding Officer ----- Ordnance Depot." For U.S. Single Action Colts it is well worth the $135 or so to get a letter of authentication from Mr. John Kopec, which requires you to ship him your gun. He will note what (if anything) has been altered on it and any historical information that is documented on it. Many of these have been faked, enhanced, or altered over the years, and it is not unheard of for him to be sent the same gun a number of years apart and find that the barrel has gotten longer, the finish has gotten better and new markings have appeared. Be careful out there! WWI era .45 auto grips will range from $10 to $125 depending on condition and which variation you are looking for. (Clawson's "Colt .45 Service Pistols" documents small difference between those made by Colt, Springfield Armory and Remington-UMC during WW1. Price is the easy part, as you will probably be able to keep the cash in your pocket for a very long time until you find an appropriate set for sale. John


# 1551 - British .45 Holster
10/17/98
Bruce

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

John, What holster would be appropriate to show with 1911A1 with British proofs? Does it take something special and have you such a critter?

Answer:
Bruce- Good question. I do not know of any indication that holsters were or were not shipped either with the pistols or separately. Very few of the British .45s show much use, so it is possible that they (a) sat in a warehouse because no one could figure out how to carry them in the field, or (b) went to rear echelon types who needed a pistols but not something they would carry around. (Paymasters, secure communications facilities, etc). During WW1 the .455 M1911s mostly went to the RAF and I do not know how they carried them. I think that some of the British web gear intended for either the .455 Webley revolver or the Browning Hi-power would probably work adequately. For display purposes, I would either skip a holster or show standard US. holster John


# 1550 - 7.62x59 Ammo
10/13/98
Tony

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

A couple weeks ago I ordered a case of ammo for my svt40 tokarev (7.62x54) I didn't pay any attention at first but the other day I noticed it said 7.62x59! I have looked all night tonight and an hour the other day and all I have seen it mentioned as is "7.62x59 nato" and "7.62x59 / 308". It is an old wood box with galvanized sheet metal inner container that is soldered closed with 4 pull tabs on the flap. There are markings on the box 7.62x59 nclp 1.2x04/1.2-kf nma (might be... nctp 1.2x04/1.2-kf nma) 25/72-bxm fbpl/fe What the hell is this stuff?? Tony

Answer:
Tony- You are a victim of people who write funny. You will probably notice that many of the markings look a little strange, sort of like they are written in Russian or Bulgarian, or Chinese or something. The NATO round is 7.62x51mm (Bullet diameter of 7.62mm, and case length of 51mm). .30-06 ammo in metric terms would be 7.62x63mm. So neither of those is 7.62x59. Your Tokarev uses 7.62x54R (7.62 bullet same diameter as the others above, but the case if 54mm long, and the "R" indicates is has a rim. The Commies may have assumed that everyone knew it had a rim, and not bothered to use the "R" as part of the markings, so don't get worried about that. The tin cans inside a wooden box is pretty standard packing for the 7.62x54R ammo. I would be 99% positive you got what you ordered. Go ahead and open one up and see what is inside. Bet you will find you lost a lot of sleep over nothing. John


# 1549 - Firearm ID
10/13/98
Richard

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Pr. Krupp Stahl Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

I have a three barrel custom rifle shotgun combo made by Pr. Krupp Stahl. The shotgun is 16ga. the rifles are .30 but I don't know the exact shell. Would you possibly have any info on this. Any help will be appreciated.

Answer:
Richard- This is called a "Drilling" (pronounced dry' ling") or three barrel gun. Very popular in German before WW2, and most were very nice quality with lots of engraving. These are not popular with American hunters because (a) few people like 16 GA any more (for reasons I do not understand); (b) the 16 GA barrels have chambers that are too short to safely shoot US ammunition without having the chambers altered; (c) the rifle barrels are usually for some oddball European caliber that is impossible to find. The Krupp Stahl marking indicates the barrels are made from steel produced by Krupp, the famous old German steel maker. There is sometimes an additional name of a maker or owner, but there is no reference material available to track down either. These are nice old guns, and worth keeping in the family for sentimental value. Collector value varies greatly with quality of workmanship, caliber, and condition. Maybe $200 on the low end for a hammer type. Hammerless examples in a US caliber (there are some) may be closer to $1000. Figure $350-450 for most. Hope this helps. John


# 1548 - Rifle- Survival .22 Hornet
10/13/98
Wayne

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

Could you tell me who made the .22 Hornet Rifle besides Ruger? In the nineteen fifties I was a member of the Canadian Air Force, in our seat packs on fighter aircraft there was a broken down .22 Hornet Rifle as part of a northern survival kit. I have been trying to find this info for some time but with no luck, probably because I don't know the maker. I thought it was Colt, but I can't find anything about it on any website. I would be very thankful for any info you may have.

Answer:
Sir- I do not know much about Canadian Forces arms, but will tell you what I can about USAF arms. Maybe they were the same since both nation's air forces shared a lot of equipment as well as responsibility for defending much of the same airspace. The first .22 Hornet rifle used by US forces was the "Rifle, Survival, caliber .22 Hornet, M4" made by Harrington and Richardson. These were bolt action with a 14 inch barrel and a five round detachable metal magazine. The "stock" was little more than a couple of short pieces of sheet metal that held the receiver, trigger guard and magazine well together, and had a open metal pistol grip sticking down. A wire buttstock could be moved fore and aft, much like that on the M3 "Grease Gun". The Gun Parts Corp Catalog claims that these were "rushed into service during WW2 as part of a survival package for downed pilots. These guns were essentially an H&R .22 rimfire rifle (M265 series) modified to be compact and in the more powerful .22 Hornet cartridge." I cannot confirm the WW2 dating and think they may actually have been a later development. The only other .22 Hornet rifle used by the US military (at least that I know of) is the "Rifle-Shotgun, Survival, caliber .22/.410 gage, M6 (T39). According to TM9-500 "Data Sheets for Ordnance Type Material" this was "for use by Air Force personnel for procurement of food when such personnel are forced down in uninhabited or hostile territory. It is a single shot weapon of the 'over and under' type. The top barrel is chambered for the .22 Hornet cartridge; the lower barrel for the .410 shotgun shell or the .410 rifled slug....[It has] a sheet metal stock having provision for storing ammunition. A bar trigger issued; no applied safety is provided." [Good for firing when wearing mittens, but otherwise pretty unsafe. Hey, if you are already forced down, you got to be willing to accept some risks!). The stock is attached to the bottom of the receiver in a manner which allows it to be folded in half. The barrel length is 14 inches. An adaptation of this with longer barrels and a trigger guard has been made by a commercial outfit in the U.S. I do not know who made the military version. Just about every commercial rifle maker has made rifles in .22 Hornet at some time, but I think the ones above are the most likely candidates. The USAF also used some Savage Model 24 over-under rifle-shotguns for survival purposes in the 1950s. These were off the shelf commercial models with brown plastic ("tenite") stocks and were in .22 long rifle (not .22 Hornet) and .410 gage. These were stamped USAF on the receiver. I understand that some No.4 Mk 1 Lee Enfield rifles were rebuilt in another caliber with sporter style stocks for use by Canadian Forces as survival rifles, but I do not know the details on those. John


# 1543 - Kendall "Stud Lock" Longarm
10/10/98
Dotty

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Stud Lock Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

Hey Guys, I think I can stump you on a long gun. No one else has even heard of this gun, wonder if you have. It is a stud lock, made by Kendall from Vermont in the mid 1980's. I know it is a stud lock because it says so on it. I like your music, even if I am from the North........but I did live in the South for a year. Thanks Dotty

Answer:
Dotty- Okay you won the bet and proved we don't know all about everything. You gotta share your winnings with us and tell us what the heck a "stud lock" gun looks like. As far as I can determine, the Kendalls who made guns in Windsor, Vermont, in the 1840s pretty much went broke by the late 1850s. They had a variety of other partners (Robbins, and Lawrence being the best known) and made M1841 "Mississippi" rifles for the U.S. government, as well as being involved with the manufacture of early Sharps rifles (The odd "pellet primer" on the Sharps was invented by the Lawrence guy of Robbins, Kendall & Lawrence.) Their biggest triumph was a British contract to make .577 Enfield Pattern 1853 muskets during the Crimean War, and also the machinery for the British Arsenal at Enfield to make muskets with interchangeable parts. Up until then all (and afterwards some) of their muskets were made by scattered hand workshops and not interchangeable. Unfortunately, the company got behind on deliveries and when the Crimean War ended the Brits canceled the unfilled portion of the contract and the company failed. Their plant was later used by Lamson, Goodnough & Yale to make model 1861 Special muskets (lock guts being interchangeable with those of the British Enfields), and I believe the Yales later went off into making hardware and door locks. The "family tree" of American industrial companies has strong ties to the times when they were involved in making guns, usually under government contracts. The role played by individual inventors or craftsmen is also highly significant as they shifted from one employer to another bringing new ideas or techniques. The importance of precision measurement and machine tools to successful gun making provided the foundation for the industries that made the U.S. the dominant industrial power of the 19th and 20th centuries. Felecia Deyrup Johnson's "Armsmaking in the Connecticut Valley" (now out of print) and my bother-in-law Tim Blagg's college thesis are the best coverage of this fascinating topic. However, they don't tell us anything about stud locks. Today, the old Kendall Factory is home of the American Precision Museum. They have a web site (URL unknown right now) and maybe they can help you. Sorry... John


# 1542 - Solingen Sword or Machete
10/10/98
David

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

Just curious if you can help me learn more about an heirloom. It is a sword or machete about 24-26 inches long with a gold or gold plated grip. The grip end is a lion head. On the grip end of the blade there are the words:(Horse head insignia) No. 66 GEBR. WEYERSBERG SOLINGEN On the other side of the blade is a black paper stamp about 4 inches by 1 1/2 inches. It is Black with white letters and appears to be in Spanish. It looks like this: BUSQUEN LA MARCA CABEZA DE CABALLO MARCA LA GARANTIZAMOS (HORSE HEAD INSIGNIA) Gebrweyersberg (cursive lettering) REGISTRADA SOLINGEN It looks like an upsized postage stamp really. Could it be some sort of sword permit? I've learned that Solingen is a town in Germany, about 13 miles East of Dusseldorf and that this town is known for steel and iron ware. Is Weyersberg the name of the company which made the sword? My next door neighbor (who owns the sword or machete) was told it was made in Germany in the 1930's or before WWII and made it's way to Mexico, I think. Can you tell me more or can you refer me to someone else? Thanks for your time, David

Answer:
David- Solingen Germany has been a center for manufacture of excellent cutlery and edged weapons for several centuries. The same companies have remained in business with little change in names, and often the symbols used in the earliest days of guilds and hallmarking continue in use today. They have made knives for tables of commoners and royalty, and swords and bayonets for feudal lords and Third Reich tyrants, as well as for sale around the world. Items could be made to a customer's design, or assembled from stock patterns, either current production, or based on very old patterns. All this makes precise dating of anything not identifiable to a specific military year or model designation somewhat difficult.

My very limited knowledge of Spanish (most useful bit is "un cerveza frio, por favor") indicates the label is more likely just a brand name label which would roughly translate to "Look for the horse's head- Trademark guarantee of quality from Weyersberg Brothers, Solingen." This and having a "no. 66" model designation leads me to believe it is no earlier than mid 20th century.

This may be some sort of military pattern, but is more likely a ceremonial or dress pattern machete or short sword for police or agricultural officials or presentation to visiting dignitaries, or "worker of the month" or retirees.. The Spanish language makes a Mexican connection plausible, or perhaps Cuban, or any country with heavy emphasis on sugar cane or similar crops. The Philippines are another possibility.

Sorry we cannot be precise on this, but this is the best we can do based on limited knowledge and wild speculation... John


# 1529 - H&R 922 Manufacture Date
10/10/98
Scott, Washington, DC,

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
H&R Arms Company 922 Unknown Unknown Unknown 181853

I submitted this a while ago and have not seen a response yet. I'm interested in finding out the exact year this gun was manufactured.

Answer:
Scott, I have no manufacture date information on H&R serial numbers that do not have a letter prefix, except that they were manufactured before 1940 or after 1982. My reference books tell me that early H&R 922 , first issue revolvers had checkered walnut grips and a 10 in. octagon barrel. Later first issue models came with a 6 in. round barrel. Second Issue revolvers were manufactured from 1950-1982, these came with 2 & 1/2, 4, or 6 in. barrels, solid frame and plastic grips... Marc


# 1527 - Danzig Long Barrow Black Power Riffle
10/6/98
Steve

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Danzig Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

Have a Danzig long barrow black power riffle. Would like to get some information on the riffle. It seems like know one can help. Would be appreciated if I can here back. Thank you

Answer:
Steve- Danzig produced large numbers of muskets for one of the independent German states (not yet a unified country in those days). These were fairly typical smoothbore muskets with flintlock ignition. Barrels were held by three bands, and the caliber was in the .69-72 range. These are frequently found with brass buttplates with the tang on the top in a shield shape rather than a long rouunded projection like most other arms of the period. By 1860 most of these had been converted to percussion and were considered obsolete as European armies were shifting to smaller bore rifled arms. When the American Civil War broke out agents from both the north and the south raced to Europe and bought up all the arms they could find. This included thousands of these German muskets. They were better than some of the oddball guns purchased but inferior to most. After the war these were sold as surplus. Many are found today with barrels and stocks cut back to make them easier to sell for use as cheap shotguns. Value is modest for these, even in original as issued condition... John


# 1526 - WW2 Japanese Rifle. Captured On Siapan
10/6/98
Cliff

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Japan Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

What is the value of a WW2 Japanese rifle, captured on Siapan during the war.

Answer:
Cliff- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. Japanese rifles have never really caught on as hot collector items. The typical Type 99 7.7mm rifles are all over the place at reasonable prices. If the "mum" on the receiver has not been defaced they bring about $100-125. If mum is defaced, then they run $65-100 depending on condition, matching numbers, dust cover present, etc. Slings, sight covers, etc add a little more to the value. Bayonets run about $40-55 with scabbard. There are a lot of variations of these items and some of the scarce ones will bring more. Sniper rifles with telescopes get much higher prices, and some of the last ditch bayonets with bamboo scabbards might go $75. If you brought this one back, it would be a great idea to write down as much as you can about location, date, circumstances of capture-(taken from body or issued from warehouse, etc) unit you were with, how you got it home, etc. All seemingly unimportant details to the guys who got them, but the sort of history that really deserves to be recorded so family members and future owners will properly appreciate the history of a firearm. With such documentation value would probably be about 10-50% greater than without. Otherwise it may be just another $75 Japanese rifle. Hope this helps... John


# 1525 - Need 98 K Rail Mount System
10/6/98
Bryan

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Mauser 98 Sniper Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

Dear sirs, I have a 1945 8mm Mauser 98 sniper rifle. I need a rail mount system for this weapon. Would you have any suggestions where I might locate one? Any advise you could render will be greatly appreciated!! Thank you for your time.

Answer:
Bryan- You will need an incredible amount of luck and probably an incredible amount of cash as well. It will probably be easier to find a rifle with a scope than just a scope. It seems (according to what I was able to learn from Peter Senich's "The German Sniper 1914-1945" that they made many rifles (especially bcd 4) with special receivers and three screw holes that ended up never having mounts and scopes attached. In my opinion, those are very rare and desirable collector items in their own right. However, most people will probably decide that they would like to "fix" a 50 year old problem by installing the mount and scope that was never there. I think that is dishonest and destroys a valid historical firearm. On the other hand, there are a few rifles that did have mounts and scopes attached (as shown by the addition of two holes for dowel pins and evidence that screws have been in the threaded holes), but subsequent owners removed or lost them for a variety of good or bad reasons. I have no disagreement with folks trying to "restore" those rifles although the quest for correct style original parts, or even decent reproductions can be very difficult. Of course, when sold these rifles should be clearly described as restorations, and any reproduction parts noted (and preferable marked in some visible manner.) I think SARCO is expanding their offering of German WW2 style sniper stuff with copies made in Outer Slobovia or someplace like that. Reportedly high quality, and likely to fool many people. It would be poetic justice of someone who got ripped off by fakers "reached out and touched them" from afar. (Or as William Shakespeare wrote "Tis sport to see the engineer hoisted by his own petard.") SARCO has also been selling reproduction US M1907 leather slings "with your choice of 1918 or 1943 date markings." That is just outright fakery in my opinion and I dislike doing business with people who do that sort of stuff, especially when they go out of their way to be clever about the wording in their ads so that you have to read real slow and careful to realize that you are about to be ripped off. Be careful out there... John


# 1524 -
10/3/98
Dan

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
C.G. Haenel Unknown 7.62 x 72R Unknown Unknown Unknown

I am looking for info on a C.G. Haenel falling block style German Schuitzer Rifle Prior to 1939 manufactured , also Lechner, H.A. Ammo Closest 7.62 x 72R Any info on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
Dan- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. Sorry I cannot help much with any of these. Closest I can come is a John Lechner who worked in Uniontown PA circa 1802-1835. I can find no reference to any 7.62x72R ammo. There were a few older low powered European rimmed cartridges with cases 72mm long (hence the 72R in the name) but in recent years the only one seen even occasionally is the 9.3x72R, and that is usually in the rifle barrel of drillings (three-barrel guns). The bullet diameter and case length do not seem to match up with any US or British cartridge that may have been given a metric designation. While case length may not be critical, diameter at the base is very important and you need to start with a chamber cast (or sample round) to see what you can find that will work. You are welcome to post this on our free "Wanted" page. Maybe one of the hundreds of people who visit our site each day will know and share it with us. Good luck... John


# 1523 - Rusting Process
10/3/98
Rick

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

I am refinishing a muzzle loader and I want to put a rust finish on the barrel. However, I am not familiar with the process of rusting and could use some info on this. Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thank

Answer:
Rick- All you need to do is add some oxygen to the iron so that it turns into iron oxide. As a history major, I successfully avoided taking any chemistry courses, and cannot explain how that works.

There is a whole book on the subject by R.H. Angier- "Firearms Blueing and Browning" full of recipes requiring stuff like dragon's blood, rainwater, potash, and other stuff (wing of bat and eye of newt?) you may not have lying around the house. Read it for historical background, but let's find an easier way to make our guns rusty. (If you live in the humid coastal climates, just open the window and wait a while after removing all traces of oil.

For a nice even smooth "brown" finish get a bottle of "browning solution" from a gunsmith. Birchwood-Casey makes a lot of gun finishing supplies and calls theirs "Plum Brown". Another good brand is Pilkington, and there are probably others as well. Read and follow the instructions. (If I have to tell you that, you probably won't bother anyway, but my lawyer will be happier.) Basically the process is something like this- (a) get all the oil off, (b) warm the iron/steel parts up a little (c) apply a coat of the browning solution. (d) let it rust for a while, preferably in a nice humid area (e) remove some of the rust with a real fine wire brush or "card" (f) repeat all this a couple more times until you get the color and coverage you like then (g) kill the acid on the metal with boiling water and then oil it. It takes a while but produces nice results.

Until about 1900 the term "browning" was also used to describe the process which resulted in a blue finish, such as that on the trapdoor Springfields. They just used a slightly different acid solution and the result is what we now call a "rust blue" finish. Very handsome and durable. The recipe is in some of the old military manuals. Some of the earlier U.S. military arms (M1816 muskets and Hall's rifles for example) were given a brown finish that was actually a brown colored lacquer painted on with a brush. Very attractive but quite different in appearance then a true rust brown.

If you just need to age some replacement parts to match the rest of a gun, try this. After getting everything fitted properly, remove all oil and put them outside where they will get plenty of moisture. (I like a damp area in my wife's flowers near a downspout.) Sprinkle the parts with some salt every now and then. Turn over once in a while and maybe use some steel wool to clean off some rust as it develops and then treat it some more. This will result in overall rusting and some light pitting if you are patient enough. I tried this on a repro bayonet that fits in the buttstock of old flintlocks. Successfully used it to point out to fellow bayonet collectors why they need to keep abreast of reproduction stuff being offered and likely to be aged and offered as originals.

I have been told that you can create artificial pitting on new parts by treating them with cold blue then boiling them in bleach. CAUTION: a very dangerous operation!!! I have not tried it, but the high concentration of oxygen in the bleach apparently just delights in eating up iron and steel.

Why should collectors know about this? Because the fakers already know it. As Harold Peterson of the National Park Service once said "I don't worry about the fakes I recognize, but I worry a lot about the fakes I don't recognize." There are a lot of dealers out there selling stuff as original. Some of them are either really ignorant or develop sudden (and convenient) cases of blindness and amnesia when describing their items. Others (like us) try very hard to describe things fully and accurately so you will know exactly what you are getting. Be careful out there, the sea is full of sharks... John Spangler


# 1519 - Why Series 70, 80?
10/3/98
Tony

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Colt 1911A1 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

Just a quick question about 1911A1's. I've noticed MKIV's labeled Series 70 and series 80. Does this signify the decade of manufacture, or are there other differences? Thanks, Tony

Answer:
Tony, a good question, to the best of my knowledge, the different Colt series derive their name from the decade in which they were first introduced. Colt series 70 models were manufactured form 1970 to 1983, series 80 models are still being manufactured at the present time... Marc


# 1517 - Unusual 1917 Enfield
10/3/98
Frank

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Enfields 1917 30-06 Unknown Unknown Unknown

Just reading your current Q&A and noticed that John is interested 1917 Enfields. I have an unusual example. The receiver is blank. It measures .030 larger than a standard 1917. I examined it with a powerful glass and I'm pretty sure it has not been ground. The barrel has no markings behind the front sight . The upper handguard is one piece and shaped different than standard. There are several "Eagle" proof marks on the gun in various places. Caliber is 30-06, headspace is 1.946. I obtained this rifle from a friend and fellow collector. The rifle had been in his family since 1921. Please let me know if you know anything about this rifle. Thank you Frank

Answer:
Frank- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. Sounds like a very interesting piece. I cannot tell you anything definite about it. I suspect that is probably assembled from mostly surplus parts in 1919. If a very early prototype as they switched from P1914 production to M1917, there would have been crown type marks rather than eagle marks. It is possible it is a "lunch box" gun made of pilfered or scrap parts. The one piece handguard is most unusual, and leads me to think it is most likely from Remington. (Look for letters on small parts, E, R or W). Remington had a lot of surplus M1917 parts and they became the basis for M1934 military rifles (with barrel mounted sights instead of the big ugly "ears" on the receiver) sold to South American countries, and the Model 30 and later Model 720 sporting rifles, and I believe some features (if not actual surplus parts) ended up in later Remington bolt action rifles. I would greatly appreciate photos (including some of the rifle disassembled to show the unusual handguard or other strange internal features/markings. I would probably be foolish enough to want to add this to my collection if you were interested in selling it. However "odd or unusual" does not always translates into "very valuable."... John


# 1516 - Grandfathers Ring
10/3/98
Edward

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

Several years ago, I inherited a ring from my mother when she passed away. The ring was given to my mother when her mother passed away many years ago. Before my mother passed away, she handed me a ring she wanted me to have. She said it had belonged to her father when he volunteered in the German Army in 1914. She said it was given to him for volunteering in the Army. The description of the ring is as follows: Width of ring, 3/8th inch, silver band, on the inside of the ring is stamped with the number 900, The outside of the band is inscribed, Vaterlandsdank 1914. The ring is in excellent condition. Can you provide me with any information about this ring? Thank you, Ed

Answer:
Ed- I can add nothing to what you already know. As a collector item, I am sure there would be some interest in it, but probably not much monetary value. As a family piece it is irreplaceable. Today in our society an increasing number of kids are unable to identify their father, let alone a grandfather, or know anything about them (other than the obvious biological conclusions). To have a tangible reminder of an ancestor is a real treat, and something to be treasured within a family. It would be great to record all that you can about your grandfather and the others who have owned this ring, so that the information can be passed down along with the ring itself. This is part of history, and with it a youngster can begin to understand more about the immigrant nature of American society, and wonder about the motivations for people to leave their homeland to come here (perhaps even after fighting against American soldiers). What sort of work did they do, and how did they live (before welfare became a "right")? How did the family's German language and traditions become blended with others to become indistinguishable from other Americans? (No bi-lingual education then). What were the issues that led to the outbreak of WW1 in 1914 and why did your grandfather enlist? What sort of unit, and where did he serve? Can you visit those places today? Did he survive the war, or die like so many others, and for what purpose? Were the casualties the result of arrogant politicians, or blundering generals, or of battlefield tactics outpaced by weapons technology? What were the living conditions of the troops at the front and the families at home? What sort of medical treatment was available, and did more troops die from disease or wounds? You have a valuable piece of history. May we all learn from it... John


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