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# 14422 - French Gras Model 1874/1880 Rifle
11/27/2012
John

France - M.80 - 11mm - 32`` - Don't Know - AB 62400 -

EM with R in a circle and an S in a circle located to the left side of the ladder rear sights. An M.80 located on the left side of the chamber. On the right side of the rear sights C 1880, MA is on the right side of the barrel. On the bolt handle is a C and an A stamped within a diamond. What is the history of this weapon, when was it manufactured, and by who?

Answer:
John- The French Gras rifle was their first metallic cartridge rifle, replacing the earlier Model 1866 Chassepot rifle which was a “needle fire” using a paper cartridge with a percussion cap on the base of the bullet, ignited by a thin needle-like firing pin. Many of the Chassepot rifles were later converted to use the Gras ammunition. This was pretty typical of the French, who constantly fiddled and diddled with their arms to change things, and to make special variations for self proclaimed “elite” units needing “special” arms, like cuirassiers, border police, pioneers, etc. Your Gras rifle is marked M.80 to indicate that a modification adopted in 1880 was performed. I am not sure about the exact details, but think it was probably a modification for ammunition which necessitated changing the sights as well. The C 1880 indicates the rifle was made at the French arsenal at Chatellerault in 1880, so the modifications were probably included when it was made, not retrofitted. John Spangler


# 14561 - Nepley Revolver?
11/27/2012
England

Nepley - Mark V1 - 455-760 - 15 - Don't Know - 240255 -

6 Ton BNP With a crown above it Any Information about it Thank You

Answer:
I have never heard of a "Nepley" revolver, my guess is that you are asking about a Webley. Webley .455 caliber revolvers were used by the British armed forces for 60 years. The Mark I Webley was adopted in November 1887, and the last of the Webley service revolvers (the No. 1 Mark VI) was declared obsolete in 1947. All Webley service revolvers were of a similar top-breaking design with a heavy stirrup type catch. All of the Webley service revolvers have a "birds head" type grip except for the Mark VI whose grip is square. The Mark VI (called No.1 Mark VI after 1927), was adopted in May 1915, and over 300,000 were manufactured by Webley & Scott at Birmingham during World War I. After World War I some Mark VI's were produced at Enfield Lock. The British decided that .455 was too heavy a cartridge for the most effective use after World War I, and decided to use a .38 caliber cartridge based on the .38 Smith & Wesson instead. Webley designed a new pistol using many of the features of their commercial Mark III caliber .38 revolver. The .38 caliber design was taken over by Royal Small Arms Factory and adopted in World War II. Marc


# 14462 - Adam Carruth U.S. Military Musket
11/24/2012
William, Birmingham, Al.

Springfield [ TYPE] - 1816 - 69 Smooth Bore - 42 In. - Other - NONE -

What I have is a model 1816 flintlock marked 1819 with U.S under date. also has A CARRUTH in a curved format forward of the hammer. Its in good -A- shape Would you have any info or value on this weapon. Have not been able to find much.

Answer:
In November, 1816, Adam Carruth of Greenville, South Carolina. Took over the entire contract for 10,000 muskets which had originally been awarded in February, 1815 to Elias Earle of Centerville, South Carolina. He eventually delivered 2,250 muskets by December, 1821. Locks are marked ahead of hammer A. CARRUTH and behind hammer U.S. over date. There is also a variation marked A. CARRUTH and GREENVILLE, SC which is assumed to be for a state contract. These are among the scarcest of all U.S. Model 1816 musket contract makers, and being a possible “Confederate” arm adds to their allure and value. We would need to know more in order to put any sort of value, but figure about 50-100% more than a comparable condition example from one of the common makers. John Spangler


# 14578 - 1897 Value
11/24/2012
Mickey ,Ozark ,Arkansas

Winchester - 1897 - 12ga - 27 And 1/4 - Blue - E. 739017 -

Blueing is 90% no cracks in wood Wanting to know value so I can sell. Buy other firearms. Help if you can . Thank you .

Answer:
Mickey, the Winchester Model 1897 was designed by John Moses Browning, it was first listed for sale in the November 1897 Winchester catalog as a 12 gauge solid frame model. The 12 gauge takedown version was added in October 1898, and the 16 gauge takedown in February of 1900. The Model 1897 was the first "take down" type shotgun, with a barrel that could be easily removed from the frame. In later years, the take down design became a standard in pump shotguns and also many 22 rifles. The Model 1897 was in production from 1897 until 1957 and records indicate that over 1,024,700 were manufactured. According to my references, your shotgun was manufactured in 1924.

Our main focus at FineOldGuns.com is military firearms. We sometimes list sporting shotguns for sale in our catalogs but we do not have a lot of interest in collecting them and are by no means experts in this field, this is why we request visitors to not submit questions about shotguns. Since I do not pay allot of attention to shotgun pricing and values, the best that I can tell you is that my blue book lists value for 90% condition Model 1897 Winchester shotguns in the $550 range. Marc


# 14577 - MBA Gyrojet Firearms
11/20/2012
Dan - Aptos, CA - USA

MB Associate - GyroJet Pistol - 12 Mm Or .49 Caliber - Other -

I own a 12 mm GyroJet pistol manufactured by MB Associates in the 1960s. Unfortunately, the mechanism that locks the slide in the forward position is missing. I am in need of a source to purchase this locking subassembly, or would appreciate any source where I can get the original engineering drawings, with measurements, so I can have one made. I would also like to know of any source for owner's manuals for this firearm. Thanks in advance.

Answer:
Dan- The Gyrojet arms and ammunition are a fascinating bit of arms history. Their key feature is the ammunition which was basically a small rocket with a primer so it could be “fired” when a trigger is pulled. Since the projectile was a rocket with the propelling charge inside, instead of depending on gas expansion within the barrel as in regular ammunition, there was virtually no recoil. The Gyrojets were made in pistol and carbine models with many different variations.

Although marketed as a “space age” innovation, the concept is very similar to the Hunt “rocket ball” or the similar ammunition used in the Volcanic arms that were the predecessor of the Winchester lever action arms.

There is very little reliable published information on Gyrojets other than a few articles in gun magazines of the early 1960s. However, that is about to change!

My friend Mel Carpenter has the definitive book on everything related to Gyrojets and MBA Associates nearly ready for the publication. It is mind-boggling to see the full scope of this story, and the numerous innovative ideas they tried- some successfully, others not so much. When this book hits the market, I highly recommend everyone interested in arms history get a copy to learn more.

The bad news is that I do not know of any source for repair parts or literature at this time. John Spangler


# 14572 - ''The American'' Revolver
11/20/2012
Pastor Don -SC- Henderson, Kentucky

Unknown - Unknown - 32 - 2'' - Nickel - not one on it -

The only marking on this revolver is stamped on the top of it and it says: ''The American'' I have a small 32 cal revolver that belonged to my great grandfather and was passed down to me. There are absolutely NO markings on it except on the very top of the pistol above the 6 shot cylinder it is stamped: ''The American''. I have no desire to sell it, just know something about it since it is a family heirloom. The spring that locks the hammer back is broken and I would really like to have it fixed. Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thank you and Blessings to you.

Answer:
Hello Pastor Don, I appreciate your blessings, they are something that I could use more of. It is hard to say for sure what your revolver is, especially since I do not have an opportunity to examine it in person. I did some searches for The American and I came up with two possibilities.

The first is possibility is 'The American Gun Company'. This was a sales name placed on inexpensive revolvers made by the Crescent Firearms Company of Norwich, Connecticut, for H. & D. Folsom who was a large sporting goods retailer. Crescent is best known for its budget-price shotguns. The American Gun Company revolvers were five-shot top-break double-action models. This type on revolver was very common during the period.

The second possibility is The American Double Action. This revolver was manufactured by Harrington & Richardson. The American Double Action was a solid-frame design with a 'safety hammer'. The revolver was loaded through a hinged gate on the right rear of the frame, behind the cylinder and extraction was done by removing the cylinder arbor pin and using it to force out the spent casings.

Sorry that I could not be of more assistance. I do not think that your revolver should be too difficult to repair. Parts may be hard to find, but most competent gunsmiths should be able to fabricate a replacement spring, if you can talk one into doing it. Hope this helps, Marc


# 14524 - Accessories For Argentine Model 1933 Policia
11/17/2012
Walter

Argentine - 1933 Policia (Mauser Banner) -

I have recently acquired the above mentioned Argentine Police Mauser. The rifle is chambered for 7.65 Argentine, has matching serial numbers on the receiver and bolt, very decent bore, nice metal with minimum pitting at the woodline, nice wood, and performs the shooting cycle very nicely. I am trying to accessorize the rifle with bayonet, sling and cleaning rod. The sling swivel on the forearm is normal Mauser width, however the stock swivel loop is more narrow at closer to 3/4-1 inch in width. The bayonet lug is longer than the 1909 long rifle and will not accept its bayonet. It will accept a German K98 bayonet which has no muzzle ring and another bayonet that I have (am not sure what Mauser it also fits, but one for a longer lug and has a short muzzle ring). There appears to be a groove and hole on the bottom side of the forearm for a cleaning rod. I have no idea what length, but would think it would be rather short like the K-98 since this is a short rifle. Do you have any of these items in either original or reproduction, and, if not, can you direct me to any possible suppliers. Also any information about this rifle and its service that you could share would be appreciated. Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely, Walter

Answer:
Walter- My main collecting interest is U.S. martial longarms, but I have a secret interest in Argentine military arms as well. I am on the road and do not have access to my reference books right now, so here is a short answer and recommendation for further research.

For the answers to your question you really need to get a copy of Colin Webster's "Argentine Mauser Rifles: 1871-1959." Great book, full of details. Other fairly available and reasonably priced Argie arms include the M1879 rolling blocks, M1891 rifles and carbines, 1909 rifles, and assorted edged weapons.

I think that your rifle MIGHT take the 1891 Argentine bayonet, especially if it has the lumpy additions lug on the typical Mauser grooved bar. No idea on what cleaning rod. John Spangler


# 14564 - Sentinel
11/17/2012
bill ottawa canada

Sentinel - ? - ? - Nickel - PIN SERIAL #2472 -

Any info on this==what is its value and would you buy it.

Answer:
Bill, my guess is that you have a High Standard Sentinel Revolver. The Sentinel was a 9-shot .22 revolver with an anodized aluminum frame, a high-tensile carbon steel barrel and cylinder, single-stroke multiple ejection, a swing-out counterbored cylinder, a movable square-notched rear sight, a non-slip scored trigger, and a plastic diamond-checkered grip.

High Standard introduced their Sentinel revolver line in 1955, probably at the request of Sears Roebuck, which was a major customer and owned quite a bit of High Standard stock. Sears wanted a low-cost kit gun or “tackle box” revolver to sell under their J.C. Higgins brand. The Sentinel was sold by Sears as the J.C. Higgins Model 88. The J.C. Higgins guns were given distinctive grips, cylinder flutes, and cylinder release pins. Private label versions of the Sentinel were also made for Western Auto and Armamex.

The Sentinel was originally available in only blued finish but the nickel finish was available in April of 1956. The early nickeled guns cost $5 or $6 more than the blued guns. The MSRP for the blued gun in 1955 was $37.50. Originally the blue guns had a brown grip and the nickel guns had a white grip, but that scheme was not retained throughout production.

Values for Sentinel revolvers range from around $50 for examples in poor condition to about $250 for rare variations or pistols in excellent condition. We do not import firearms from outside the USA so we are not interested in purchase. Marc


# 14565 - Request For Luger History
11/13/2012
Tim , NorCal, Ca.

BYF / Mauser - Luger - 9.mm - Standard - Blue - 6075 -

BYF , 42 , d , Nazi Eagle , Serial Number : 6075 Walnut grips, clips are aluminum body with aluminum center pinned base. Gun has minimal wear. Came with the black widow holster, extra clip, and loader, ...all serial numbers match....gun, loader, clips, holster. My question is, are there any records available by the guns serial number, showing the name of the soldier it was issued to? I have the guns history from the lieutenant who took it from a Waffen SS officer in the final days of the war. He took it from the officer in Berlin.

Answer:
Tim, it sounds like a nice rig, the holster, takedown tool and matching magazines are all a real plus. It is very rare to run across a Luger wit two matching magazines. You mention a `Black Widow holster`, the term `Black Widow` refers to 9MM Luger pistols with 4 inch barrels manufactured by Mauser during WWII that had byf markings and 41 or 42 chamber dates. The important aspect of Black Widow Lugers that sets them apart is they were issued with all black parts instead of the usual straw colored trigger, ejector, grip screws, take down latch, safety switch, magazine release and other small parts. Black Widow Lugers have black plastic grips and fxo magazines with black plastic bases. There is no such thing as a Black Widow Holster, most of the Luger holsters that are encountered from the WWII era are black. Brown WWII era Luger holsters are much rarer than black ones are, I have been told that brown WWII era Luger holsters were usually owned by officers.

We get questions all of the time from people who are trying to trace down the history of military German firearms. At this time, I know of no source for this kind of information. If you find anything, please let me know, it would be very useful and interesting for many people. Marc


# 14523 - Colt 1851 Navy Shipped In 1861
11/13/2012
William

Colt - 1851 -

[C]an you or anybody tell me what government entities bought and used the Colt 1851. [I]nternet searches indicate that only 20+ thousand were purchased by the US, yet many are found that appear to have been heavily used and from what I have heard many were used by Cavalry. I have been told that individual state units bought many, are there any records that exist on the issue of the 1851?

[S]ince so many were produced during the war years, one has to assume that military units of some kind, or state militia units must have made up most of the purchases. Where Can I find serial number issuance.

Answer:
Sir- You are asking several different things.

A. How many M1851 Colt Navy revolvers were sold for military as opposed to civilian purchasers?

B. What units were issued M1851 Colt Navy revolvers?

C. What serial number records exist for military issued Colt M1851 Navy revolvers?

Here is the best I can tell you without doing a lot of digging. First, review the info on our site http://armscollectors.com/mgs/colts_navies_part_1.htm which gives the total number produced and states 20,000 were purchased by the U.S. Army and 15,000 by the U.S. Navy. Radcliff's article credits Flayderman and Reilly as the sources for that data. Purchases by individual states and units are not noted in those sources, but some specialized books may have that data.

During the war, "Quarterly report of ordnance and ordnance stores” were filed by each Army unit. Data from those has been compiled in F.P. Todd et al in "American Military Equipage, 1851- 1872" for both regular and volunteer units (by state). This is an important reference, but issued in different formats of either two or four volumes, and hard to find since it is long out of print.

There are no surviving comprehensive records showing all issues of M1851 Colt Navy revolvers. Some fragmentary records have been located after more than 20 years research in the National Archives by Frank Mallory. That data was published in a scarce out of print set of four volumes by Springfield Research Service. The owner of the data will look up individual numbers, but ONLY if the requestor is a subscriber to his Newsletter, and tell them yes/no data is/is not in their files. If he has any data available, there is a fee (about $175 as I recall) for him to provide more details. He has info on about 2,150 of the military used 1851 Colt revolvers.

There may be more information available in other sources I am not familiar with, since I am not very interested in Colts. John Spangler


# 14522 - M1 Carbine Marked EXEL On The Barrel
11/10/2012

M1 Carbine -

I have a M-1 carbine made by Inland Div. General Motors and stamped on the right side if barrel it says EXEL/Gardner Ma. What can you tell me about it if anything. It is in good condition.

Answer:
Sir- EXEL imported tens of thousands of carbines and Garands from Korea in the 1980s. Most of the guns were well used and most were refinished. Good shooters, but collectors tend to have less interest and pay lower prices for these than for ones that do not have the EXEL marks. My guess on retail value would be about $400- 500. Hope that helps. John Spangler


# 14560 - Remington 722
11/10/2012
John, Findlay, Oh, USA

Remington - 722 - 222 Remington - 26'' - Blue - 391020 -

When was this gun Manufactured and where

Answer:
John, the Remington Model 722 was Made by the Remington Arms Company of Llon, New York from 1949 to 1962, total production is not known.

Remington firearms manufactured from 1921-1972 have a two or three letter code on the left side of the barrel that identifies the month and year of manufacture. You can find your date of manufacture by looking it up in our link over on the left side of the page, way down at the bottom, for checking dates of manufacture for Remington's. Marc


# 14557 - 25 Cal. Valor Corp
11/6/2012

Valor -

I have a gun that was my dads, he passed away in 02' and I have had it locked away just sitting and was wondering what I could get for it, its not in that bad of a shape just need a little polishing up and haven't ever shot it.

Answer:
Your pistol was manufactured by Herbert Schmidt of Ostheim an der Rhon Germany. Schmidt marketed firearms under a long list of trade names in Europe and the USA including Deputy Marshal, EIG, E8, PIC, Geroco, Madison, Bison, Omega, RG, AMCO, Spesco, Valor, Liberty, LA's Deputy, Liberty Scout, Deputy Magnum, Deputy Adjuster, NATO, Western, Burgo Mod 21, Gecado Model 21 , Indian Scout, VOL, Eusta, Cheyenne Scout, Texas Scout, and Buffalo Scout. Schmidt firearms were widely sold in the USA before the passing of the Gun Control Act of 1968. There is little if any collector interest in this type of firearm and values are usually in the $50 or less range. Marc


# 14520 - W. Collath Double Rifle Circa 1880s
11/6/2012
Herb

W. Collath -

I have found an interesting antique gun for sale in the western hills in Maine. It Is listed for sale as W. Collaath Under lever gun in 18 ga??? , Boxlock, bone horned trigger gusard,26" double bbls sxs, serial # 8544. Markings are listed as KMG Crown Figure with the letter N under it. Markings under barrels are 10/6 mm60, nicely engraved with whitetail buck under ferns. Frankfurt a.o. If you could help me identify this nice old gun or give ma a website or a person who may be able to tell me about this gun i would appreciate any help you can share. Thanks, Herb

Answer:
Herb- Sorry, we cannot help much with that one. Collath was a big gun maker in Germany circa 1890-1910 and then was bought out by another outfit that continued making guns of his style with his name until about 1930.

They are well made guns, and use an under lever action to open/close, which is very strong. However, Collath liked to design cartridges and many of his guns are found in oddball calibers that are hard or impossible to find ammo for.

Values are pretty much whatever a willing buyer and seller can agree on, but probably far less than what it would cost for a gun with similar quality work today.

Google "Collath double guns" and you can find more on these. Hope that helps. John Spangler


# 14521 - Iraqi Bayonet
11/3/2012
Tiffany

I have an Iraqi bayonet that my brother collected off of a fallen Iraqi soldiers gun....from the research I have done, it seems very authentic. I see a number on the casing that says 560. I have photos of it as well that I would be happy to send! The problem is I am not sure of its worth. I am looking to sell it. Any help you may offer about its authenticity, value, etc...would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks! Tiffany

Answer:
Tiffany- These are fairly common on the collector market and not very valuable. I would expect to find examples at gun shows priced around $35-45 or so. I think it would be a nice souvenir to keep in the family to remember and honor your brother’s service. John Spangler


# 14569 - Help Selling A P.38
11/3/2012
Evan, Rayne, Louisiana

P38 - 38 - Don't Know -

The pistol has the old Nazi sign on it Hi I need help I'm trying to find some one for my uncle he has a P38 German made military grade serial numbers are all the same and he wants to sell it would you know of any good places to look

Answer:
Evan, I am happy to be able to help you find someone who is interested in purchasing your P.38. Try contacting FineOldGuns.com at the following link:

http://oldguns.net/email/

We would be happy to take a look at your pistol and make an offer. Marc


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