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# 13807 - Erfurt Luger Question

German Luger - 9 MM - 4 Inches - Blue -

Has a ''crown'' etched on top of barrel What is the value of this luger, all part numbers match and what is the significance of the ''crown''?

Brian, you have a WWI vintage Luger that was manufactured by the German Royal Arsenal at Erfurt for the German Armed Forces. Erfurt Lugers are marked on the toggle: with a crown over the arsenal name " ERFURT". The Erfurt arsenal began production of Luger pistols in 1910 to supplement Luger production by DWM in order to keep up with demand for pistols to supply Germany's military forces.

The quality of finish on Erfurt Lugers is usually lower than that on those manufactured by DWM. Erfurt Lugers are noted for often having a rough finish, with tool marks that are much more evident than they are on DWM produced examples of the same era. Erfurt Lugers usually bear an inspector's proof on each part of the weapon, including the grip screws.

As I always say, values will depend on condition, it can range from $450 for a Luger that has little or no finish to over $1500 for an example in excellent condition. Marc

# 13623 - Question Of The Month

Don't Know -

Handmade from Belgium anywhere from 1876-1915. I think the brand is Bear or Bayer. I have a gun my father-in-law bought from a flea market. He has taken it to gun shows and has been offered around $1000 by many vendors. Do you know more about this gun or know someone who does? How much is it worth and the history of it?

Luis- We appreciate your admiration of our ability to know all about everything based on scant facts.

If "many vendors" have offered around $1,000 for this item, that pretty well establishes that the value is probably in that range. Hopefully they would have known what it was before offering a big wad of cash for it. I would have thought that your father in law would ask the vendors what it was while they were looking at it. Apparently he did not, and now you want us to identify it with absolutely no information at all other than a possible name, a broad date range that spans the muzzle loading to smokeless cartridge eras, and a possible origin in Belgium.

We are good, but not that good, and must confess that we cannot tell you a darn thing about it. I suspect that this is a typical case of someone who buys something cheap that they know nothing about, and then when made a fair offer by a reputable dealer they think it must be worth more than that. Some will not even want to spend the money necessary to invest in the books needed to research a topic, or pay someone for an appraisal or formal research. (We DO offer that service, see our main page!) In fact, this type person is usually unhappy when they don't get the answer they want from someone providing a free service. Well, if this is the case, we urge you to take advantage of our full money back guarantee for any of our free advice. As the old song went "Here's your sign...." John Spangler

# 13811 - Shiny Mod 64 Winchester
Jesse, Blanco, Tx

Winchester - 64 - 30-30 - Unknown - Nickel - 1097158 -

mint condition, beautiful finish, unknown type. Model 64 made in 1933 (reference the serial) all orig. still a hunting rifle/shooter Is this a rare gun, being the finish is a bright ''chrome''? Should I be using it to shoot at all? does it fire a 30-30 modern round?

Jesse, I checked several reference books including Henshaw, Madis, Wilson and the Blue Book of Gun Values. No mention is made of nickel plated model 64 rifles but Madis indicates that after June 1932, chrome plating was available for any Winchester rifle or shotgun.

I do not know how your rifle's nickel finish will effect it's value. Personally, I don't like nickel finishes, so in my opinion it would be worth less than a rifle with regular blue finish. On the other hand, I am sure that there are some collectors who do like that kind thing and that some may be willing to pay more for a nickel plated rifle, if it can be verified that the nickel is an original factory finish.

To find out more about your rifle, I suggest that you post a question on the forum at the official Winchester collectors site at Good luck - Marc.

# 13573 - M1A1 Carbine Stock
Richard, Athens, Tn

M1A1 - 30 - Other -

RIA FEB to the left of the R there looks like a partial star I have a M1A1 stock with the markings on the left side at the back RIA FEB, also their is a P in a circle on the pistol grip same side Is this a WWII Rock Island Armory stock?

Richard- Your best bet is to study the info in Larry Ruth's War Baby (2 volumes) dealing with everything related to the M1 Carbines and their variations and related accessories. The markings are typical arsenal rebuilt markings applied at Rock Island Arsenal where U.S. small arms were overhauled during and long after WW2. John Spangler

# 13566 - EK Or FK Inspection Marks
Mick, Grafton, ND

Remington - P1917 - .30-06 - Blue -

Cartouche- RIA EK 3 Did Elmer Keith work at Rock Island?

Mick- Elmer Keith never worked at Rock Island Arsenal. However, he did work at the Ogden Arsenal as a small arms inspector, and his mark is usually OGEK, sometimes with periods or without and with or without a box, although some people insist that another inspector named Ed Klousner worked there as well and the two men used different style stamps which some claim they can tell apart. I am skeptical about anyone being able to prove which format belonged to which man. One of the inspectors at Rock Island was Frank Krack. I am pretty certain that you have one of his inspector marks that was poorly struck or had additional dings that make it look like EK, but it is totally unrelated to Elmer Keith. John Spangler

# 13756 - Colt Lord And Lady Derringers Value
Nicole, Cincinnati, OH

1963 - Lord & Lady Derringer - .22 Short - Don't Know - 52421DER -SC- 52422DER -

Lord - walnut grip, black-chrome barrel, gold-plated -SC- Lady - gold-plated, pearlite grips (these are UNTOUCHED, unused, beautiful red velvet box -SC- probably only opened twice) Hello, my father was given this beautiful collector's set of Lord & Lady Derringers by my late grandfather -SC- they are from 1963 and in crystal-clear condition. We would like to know the estimated value of these guns. Thank you very much.

Nicole - Colt marketed the little Lord and Lady .22 single shot derringers from 1959 to 1963. They were available as single pieces or cased sets (two of the same or one of each). Collectors are often very picky about condition. Values in the blue book for Lord and Lady sets in 100% perfect condition is $495. If there is the slightest flaw or problem with condition, value falls off rapidly, 98% condition sets bring $375 and 95% condition sets only bring $275. Value goes as low as $140 for sets in 60% condition. Be careful with your set because, one small scratch or ding will lower the value by a large percentage. Marc

# 13549 - Parker Hale Or " Genuine " Enfield Musketoon
Peter, Bunbury, Western Australia, Australia

Parker Hale - Enfield Musketoon - .577 - Blue -

Enfield amoury stamp, dated 1861 I have a genuine Enfield Musketoon dated 1861, my question is, what is it worth if I was to sell it today? The rifle has been passed down four generations and hasn't been fire for 30 years.

Peter- Parker Hale is (was?) a well known British arms maker. Around 1969 they introduced superb quality replicas of the Enfield .577 muzzle loading rifles, short rifles and carbines (musketoons), even using the original 1861 dates. These were made to fit the original gages using high quality materials, and the guns have been popular with shooters ever since. They are much nice quality than the Italian made replicas, at least in my opinion.

Here in the U.S. these are popular due to interest in the Civil War, but it appears that is also a popular collecting field in Australia, so I think that it would have a good market there, and being muzzle loaders are probably not subject to the silly, worthless gun laws your country has foolishly adopted in recent years. (Disarming honest citizens, much to the delight of the criminals who prefer unarmed victims!)

Here in the U.S. a used Parker Hale musketoon usually can be found at gun shows priced around $400-700. John Spangler

# 13750 - Beretta 1934 Birthday Present Info

P. Beretta - 1934 - CAL .9 - Don't Know - 615099 -

P. BERETTA-CAL.9 CORTO-Mo 1934 BREVETTATO GARDONE V.T. 1937-XV There is also a crown imprinted on it with the letters RE under the crown. My husband just bought me this gun for my birthday. We just want to know more about the gun. What does the XV mean? What does the RE mean? Is there a place where we can get instruction manual This is my first semi auto.

Mary, I wish that my wife would be happy to receive a pistol for here birthday like you were. It sounds like your husband was lucky to find you. The pistol you describe was the standard sidearm of the Italian Army before and during World War II, and is usually referred to as the Beretta Model 1934. The ``R.E.`` marking was the property mark of the Italian army and the ``R`` is the Italian for royal and the ``E`` for army. Despite Mr. Mussolini ruling the country the Italian King was still head of state.

The XV is a set of Roman numerals, when added to 1922 (the year Mussolini seized power) they tell you they year the pistol was made. For example XX (20) would indicate the pistol was made in 1942. Your XV (15) added to 1922 indicates 1937 and this matches the 1937 date of the slide. Many of these pistols came back as souvenirs from our soldiers who fought in North Africa and Italy.

I do not know of a source for an instruction manual but a quick Google search on ``Beretta 1934 instruction manual`` came up with a whole page of results. You should be able to find one on the internet. Good Luck. Marc

# 13730 - WWII Luger With Un-Marked Holster.

Mauser - Luger - 9mm - 4 - Blue - 6554 -

I recently purchased a S/42 Luger stamped with a date of 1938. All numbers are matching including the magazine (6554). The gun came with a BLACK holster (with tool) but is NOT marked on the back. From reading, it appears all ''military issued'' holsters were brown and marked, is this true? With no markings on the holster does that signify it was commercial and non-military. Value of outfits assuming 85 - 90% original bluing. Thanks

Steve, all of the WWII vintage German military Luger holsters that I have ever seen are black. The WWI vintage military holsters that I have come across were all brown. I have seen some Luger holsters with WWI dates and markings that started out brown but were died black. It has been my theory that these holsters were died black because they were used in WWII.

I believe that the lack of military markings on your holster does indicate that is a commercial model. Value for a complete Luger rig like yours with commercial holster, loading tool and matching magazine is in the $1700 to $2500 range depending on condition. Marc

# 13545 - Brazilian Model 1908 Mauser Rifle
Linda, Topeka, KS

Fabricate Arms - 7 X 57 Mauser - Don't Know -

I have this 1929 rifle says Fabricate Arms 1929 Rifle came with 7x57 Mauser FMJ Corrosive Berdan from Brazil, 1940s What do I have and is it worth anything

Linda- Your rifle is probably the Brazilian Model 1908. These are fairly typical Model 1898 Mauser design, with the earliest made in Germany, but later produced under license in Brazil. Three is modest collector interest in these, and I usually see the rifles priced at a few hundred dollars. John Spangler

# 13538 - Forehand & Wadsworth Pistol
Ryan, Massillon, Ohio

F&W - .38 - Don't Know - 237511 -

I got this gun last year from my grandfather and he told me to hold on to it so I have been, but I have a girlfriend now who doesn't want it in the house. I told her I'd try to sell it, but I don't want to get too little for it nor do I want to shame my granddad by taking less then it's worth. I'd taken it too this gun range by my home and was told it was a Forehand and Wadsworth and that it was made sometime between Dec 7 1886 and Jan 11 1887, but they couldn't tell me what it should be worth. I know that its condition effects the price, but do you guys have any idea what a gun of this kind that's from that period is worth in, lets say, medium condition?

Ryan- We have answered several questions on F&W in the past, so you can look those up with the "Search- Q&A" feature on our main page.

I would expect ones matching our description to be offered at a gun show in the $35-75 range, maybe $100 if the seller does not care how long it takes to sell, or is planning on having to haggle over the price. These do not have a lot of demand at any price, so don't get greedy. Or, you can dump this loser girlfriend and find one who likes guns! John Spangler

# 13721 - Question About Numbers On A Colt
Eric, Las Vegas, NV. USA

Colt - New Service - 44-40 - 5.5'' - Blue - 137203(MADE 1905/1906) -

A number ''42'' is stamped on the left side of the frame in front of the trigger guard, above the ''triangle P'' inspection mark. There is also a ''U'' under the SN in the cylinder bow. Does the number ''42'' & the ''U'' indicate that this gun was used by a foreign country? If so, which one? Thanks. Your answer will be much appreciated.

Eric, the Colt folks used numbers to identify inspectors who gave their approval when certain steps in manufacturing were completed. It sounds as if you have located a couple of these inspector's marks on your pistol. Marc

# 13720 - Duralumin Sauer 32?
Steve, Aliso Viejo, Ca.

JP Sauer & Sohn - WW-2 W/German Markings - 7.65 (32ACP) - 2.5 In - Stainless Steel - 216869 -

28 Oktober 1934 on left of slide Patent and 7.65 cal. Left grip is the German Eagle over the swastika and the right grip has the letters AH in German scroll in a circle Duralumin slide and body Have holster and original papers from the European Theater armed forces dated Sept 7 1945 Is this a special citation gun given to Hitler's officers at the onset of the Nazi party and what could this be worth.

Steve it sounds like an interesting pistol but I always view stories like this with a skeptical eye. There are a great many stories that are attached to the pistols that soldiers brought back from Europe after the end of World War II. For example I have heard many stories the pistols that came from SS officers or have SS markings, many were special presentation guns given to the SS officer by Hitler, Goering or Himmler for devoted service to the Reich and so forth. It is usually not possible to verify most of the stories.

If the frame really is duralumin and not just steel with the finish worn down to bare metal (check it with a magnet to find out) it is a rare pistol. Having the capture papers adds to the value. Marc

# 13537 - Danzac (Danzig?) Musket
John Shelbyville, IN

Danzac 1837 - Mussel Loading - 50-60 Mm - 39 In - Blue - 1B5LR -

On the hammer side plate above the word Danzic 1837 is a stamping of a crown. Above the Ser # on the but plate is # 847. When and how did rifle get here ? It has been handed down thru the Simpson family from the 1800s back as far as my great grandfather

John- Danzig was a Prussian military arsenal in the 19th Century, and they made large numbers of muskets for the Prussian army. Yours was originally a flintlock and later converted to percussion. In 1861 officer from both the Union and Confederate armies were scouring Europe trying to buy arms, and most of the European countries were delights to sell of lots of obsolete arms such as these for quite good prices. I would sy the majority were used by the Union forces. After the war, theyw ere sold as surplus, and sometimes discharged soldiers were allowed to keep their arms and have the cost deducted from their pay. John Spangler

# 13715 - Eagle Over N Marked PP 22 Pistol
John, Macon, GA

Walther - PP - .22 LR - Blue - 261132P -

Nazi eagles over an ''N'' on the right side of the slide, ejection port and barrel. ''Waffenfabrik Walther, Zella-Mehlis (Thur)'' on the left side of the slide. I have a Walther PP .22 LR pistol with what appear to be Nazi markings on the barrel and slide. The slide has the Walther proof mark and a serial code of 261132p. I would like to know when this was made and what it was used for. I have seen only one other pistol like this chambered for .22LR.

John, the eagle over N that you are asking about is the proof mark, not a German military marking. Proof marks were required for sale or use of any firearm made in Germany. Your pistol was made for commercial sales to anyone who could qualify to own a gun during the Nazi regime. It was not used by the German military. Marc

# 13719 - Plainfield M1 Carbine That ``Saw Action``?
Ronald, Pompano Beach, FL. USA

Plainfield Machines - M - Carbine - Cal .30 - Don't Know - 2507 -

I was wondering if anyone could tell me where this rifle was made or issued. It's been in the family for a long time, has seen action in two foreign wars and I'm now the wondering about it's history. Thanks you for your help.

Ronald, I am sorry to have to tell you that you are mistaken, your Plainfield carbine never saw any military action, although some of the parts might have.

The Plainfield Machine Company of Dunellen and then Middlesex, New Jersey, assembled M1 Carbine replicas from assorted GI and commercial parts with varying stock features and finishes starting in the late 1960s (around 1967). Plainfield M1 Carbines were sold on the commercial market only, no Plainfield M1 Carbines were ever used by the U.S. military. Carbines were available in both 22 and 30 M1 Carbine calibers and over the years they were in business, Plainfield marketed many different configurations. Some had ventilated sheet-steel handguards and lacked the bayonet-lug assembly beneath the barrel. The Commando or Paratrooper Model had a forward pistol grip and a sliding skeletal butt.

Plainfield was acquired by Iver Johnson in 1975 and carbine production continued thereafter under the Iver Johnson name. Marc

# 13536 - Sharps Carbine Marking
Bob, Southern, CA

Sharps - New Model 1863 - 50-70 - Carbine - Blue -

Stock '78 F 3 Co' I am trying to locate E 'Scott' Meadows to ask him a question about stock markings on Sharps carbines. '78 F 3 Co' do you know his email address? Thanks for your time.

Bob- I do not have Scott Meadows' address, but he writes an occasional (but really excellent!) column for Gun Report magazine, so maybe you can find his address in one of those, or perhaps the people at Gun Report would be kind enough to forward a letter from you to him. As far as the markings, my guess would be that the 78 is a "soldier" number, F would be the Company (or troop if cavalry) and that 3 CO is probably the 3rd Colorado.

You may want to check Dusan Farrington's excellent book on Arms and equipemntof the U.S. Cavalry and see what he has on which units used that model. John McAualay's U.S. Military Carbines book is another good reference. John Spangler

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