# 1783 - Borchardt Pistol
1/30/99
Janet

Wood stock holster that attaches to the back of the gun to make it a stock. Pieces of this gun have a certain number on them, that shows me that it is a prototype (all are numbered the same). I would like to know some information, I think this is a pretty rare gun, and would like to have a 2nd opinion. Thanks for any help you can give me!

Answer:
Janet, you are correct, you have a very rare pistol. The numbers stamped on your pistol do not mean that it is a prototype, they are used for matching the parts that they are stamped on to the rest of the firearm. If the numbers do not match the pistol's value is greatly decreased.

Hugo Borchardt was born in Germany, at the age of 16 he immigrated to the United States, and became an American citizen. Borchardt worked in the US as an engineer, and in the early 1880s returned to Germany where he joined the Loewe Company.

A good deal of Borchardt's work in the US had been with firearms, his most notable design being the Sharps-Borchardt rifle, Borchardt continued to work on firearm designs in Germany until his death in the early 1920s. Borchardt took out the first German patent on his pistol on 9 September 1893.

The Borchardt pistol made use of a clock-type recoil spring that was housed at the rear of the frame, and the same toggle lock mechanism that was later to be used in the Luger Parabellum, it was the first automatic pistol design to place the magazine inside the grip. A shoulder stock was provided which clamped on to the rear of the frame and turned the pistol into a self-loading carbine. Although the Borchardt design was somewhat awkward, the grip being at almost a right angle to the frame, and the recoil spring housing at the rear of the frame having too much overhang, it was a brilliant piece of mechanical design and was regarded with considerable respect by gunsmiths of the time.

The original development and production of the Borchardt pistol was done by the Ludwig Loewe company, but the majority of production was done by DWM (Deutsche Waffen and Munitionsfabrik). The Borchardt pistol was first offered for sale by Loewe in 1894, pistols produced by Loewe are marked on top of the chamber 'Waffenfabrik Loewe Berlin', 'DRP 75837' on the toggle, and on the right side of the frame 'System Borchardt Patent'. After 1 January 1897, the markings were changed, DWM was engraved on the right side of the frame, but the patent number was retained on the toggle. Borchardt pistols were mainly offered in one configuration, with a 6 1/2 inch barrel, 8-shot magazine and chambered in 7.63mm Borchardt. It is rumored that towards the end of production, a small number of Borchardts were chambered for the 7.65mm Parabellum cartridge, and a few (possibly only one) were chambered for a special 9mm Borchardt bottlenecked cartridge. Production of the Borchardt ceased some time in 1899, when the Parabellum (Luger) was ready to go into production. Borchardt later made some attempts to improve his pistol, but by that time, the design was obsolete. Total Borchardt production was about 3000, 1100 by Loewe and 1900 by DWM.

Blue Book values for Borchardt pistols range from $3700 to $12,000 for pistol alone, and can go as high as $2,3500 for examples that are cased and come with accessories. Let us know if you are interested in selling. Marc

# 1781 - Santa Fe M1903A3 Copy
1/30/99

I was looking through my local gun shop's wares and came across an 03A3 'type' rife. disregarding the chopped military stock, it was all W.W.II US GI 'cept for the receiver... it be sayin' "SANTA FE" with a serial number in the 5 million range. Dis one 'o dem "NAT ORD" type jobbers? where and who made 'em. If its a casting ... it sure is lean and nice and tight unlike the national ordnance receivers I've seem.

Answer:
Sir- About 2500 M1903A3 rifles were made by Santa Fe of Pasadena, California circa 1965-66, about the same time that National Ordnance was making theirs. Both used commercially made receivers, reportedly castings originating in Yugoslavia or Spain. Most of the remaining parts were GI surplus, although handguards, upper bands, and rear sights are often crudely made copies. I think these are all junk and worth about half of what the salvageable parts might be worth, and if the stock is cut down, they would probably be in the under $50 range. John Spangler

# 1763 - Know How To Install M1917 Slings
1/30/99
Vic Coots, Big Spring, TX, USA

HELP!!! Does anyone have the configuration of the sling for a 1917 Enfield. I purchased an original sling but there it came in pieces and I have tried several times to get the thing installed but yet to have any luck. There is a long strap with a rectangular loop at one end and a spring clasp at the other. There is also an identical config on a strap 1/3 the length of the long strap. Both straps are accompanied with another "free" rectangular loop and another metal piece that I assume is to hold a doubled strap together. 20Thanks in advance, Vic

Answer:
Vic- Sure, we know how to install M1917 slings. Clark Campbell's excellent book "The '03 Era: When Smokeless Revolutionized U.S. Riflery" has a great drawing so you will get everything lined up right. [click here to view drawing]. The other trick is that the snaps do not fit through the swivels. You need to snap the snap on to the swivel and then push it through. The flat metal piece is the "keeper that just puts some tension on the straps so it will stay adjusted. These are actually pretty good slings, and the same design with just slightly different webbing and markings and slightly shorter length was issued with Thompson sub machine guns during WW2 as "Sling, Web, M3." Hope this helps. John Spangler

# 1771 - Nazi Flag
1/26/99
Russell, Waxahachie, Texas

6ft in length by 3ft wide. Red background with black swastika in center in a white circle. There is also a eagle with spread wings holding a swastika in a wreath in the upper right hand corner. The flag may be larger as I didn't get a chance to measure it. It did appear very large and it appears to be unissued. It also has German writhing down the left side with rope to attach to a pole. I found this flag in a antique shop and the owner is asking 200.00 dollars. Is this to much and what type of flag is it? Thank you! Russell Poynor

Answer:
Russell- Sure sounds like what people call a "State Service Flag." I do not know what that means, but one German militaria price guide indicates that large examples (6'x10') have sold at the $75-110 range.

If you don't want to buy it at $200 I guess it is too high a price for you. Fair market value is whatever a willing buyer and a willing seller agree on. The next guy in the store may think it is a good deal. The next store you go into might have one for sale at $20. How bad do you want it? Just be careful about fakes or repros in Nazi stuff. John Spangler

# 1769 - RIfle- Oviedo
1/26/99
David USA

1916 with crown and fabrica de armas on receiver,1924 oviedo armory stamp on stock with big R, military type rear tangent sight I would like to know what I have, caliber, use history, or places to look. thank you

Answer:
David- Oviedo was a Spanish government arsenal. They made Mauser type rifles, generally based on the Model 1893 action, and most originally in 7mm Mauser (7x57mm) caliber. These were used by Spanish troops until they got 8mm Mausers around 1939, and most of the older rifles were sold as surplus in the 1960s and 70s. Some were converted to .308 Winchester caliber, which I have always considered something of a safety risk, although I have never heard of one failing. "Small Arms of the World" by Joseph Smith or E.C. Ezell may have more info. There is little collector interest in these. John Spangler

# 1766 - Gunsmith Marks For US And England Circa 1800
1/26/99
RJ San Diego, Calif. USA

inside lock is the number 3 with a symbol above. The symbol looks like the letter 'M' but decorative almost like a crown. On butt under the plate was craved VII. This pistol is an old flintlock. I believe it is a horse pistol. Round 12 inch long barrel. Walnut stock with brass plates and trigger guard. The brass looks like it was sand/hand cast. The bolts and screws look hand forged. Age I would guess late 1700's early 1800's. Question: Where can I find a listing of gunsmith marks for USA and Great Briton for this time. Would you have any guess on what I have?

Answer:
RJ- American makers seem to have usually just signed their work with their name engraved in script or block letters, or marked with a stamp. Except for Massachusetts, (and a few Pennsylvania militia pieces) there does not seem to have been much in the way of proof marking or hall marking required in the Colonies or early United States. Frank Sellers' "American Gunsmiths" is the easiest place to start checking names, and if you can narrow it down to a geographic area Jim Whisker and some other authors have more specialized works to consult. Gardner's "Small Arms Makers" is also excellent for both American and European makers, but is out of print and darn hard to find.

DeWitt Bailey and Douglas Nye "English Gunmakers" is the best I know of on English makers. There area a number of articles in Gun Digest over the years covering proof marks which may be helpful. There is also a book or two specializing in gun markings, but they seem to be more useful for cartridge era arms.

Sorry we cannot give you anything better than that for reference material.

However, the best way of identifying old flintlock pistols is by their design features. With some good photos and close-ups or rubbings of ALL markings, we can probably make a pretty good guess for you. Send to me at Box 711282 and we will see what we can find out. Let us know if you want to sell it, because we can help with that too. Hope this help; John Spangler

# 1760 - Old Percussion Rifle
1/23/99
Ron

I have a old percussion rifle . On the top of the barrel is marked " J. Chismore " The lock is marked " WARREN ALBANY " , under the barrel is marked P & S Remington. D o you know anything about J. Chismore ? If so any dates, history, value range ?

Answer:
Ron, Warren was a lock maker only and worked in Albany, NY during much of the 19th century.

I can find no mention of J. Chismore. However Albert Chismore worked in Osagatchie, NY circa 1850; Ogdensburg NY circa 1850-1882 according to Franks Sellers' "American Gunsmiths."

Philo and Samuel Remington were sons of Eliphalet Remington, founder of the Remington Arms Co. The sons were subordinates in the arms business from about 1839 until about 1866 when Philo became President of the company. Remington had a thriving business making barrels for sale to gunsmiths to assemble into complete rifles with the reminder of the parts coming from other sources or being made by the gunsmith himself. I suspect that the sons may have been given the barrel making portion of the business prior to taking over higher positions in the company. I would estimate the barrel to be circa 1850-1860. Roy Marcot's book on Remington is due out any day now and should answer a lot of questions about this under appreciated company.

Value of non-descript percussion rifles is rather modest for their age, usually in the $200-400 range depending on overall attractiveness and condition. Heavy target rifles will bring a bit more and famous makers will run even higher. John Spangler

# 1758 - Custer And Calamity Jane Guns
1/23/99

I am in the possession of two (2) Smith and Wesson Revolvers (see photo) Serial # 17489 & 18661 . These pistols have tags attached which tell a very short history where they were acquired. Serial # 17489 I can't make this tag out very well but it says something to the effect that it was used in the battle of the big horn against Gen. Custer and was owned by Setting Bull with a date of Jun. 25th, 187x Serial # 18661 This one is much more legible and says:>> This Smith and Wesson Revolver (the tags are reversed and belong to the other pistol) No. 17489 Cal 44 Was used and Owned by Setting Bull and also by his son White Bull and was used in the Battle of Little Big Horn Custer Massacre Crow Reservation Montana June 25, 187 (I can't make out the last digit) Sold to Clyde O. Taylor Oct. 21 1937 By. Silent B. Smith << I believe the two tags say pretty much the same things. Any information on these pistols would be appreciated , If they are what the tags say they are I will send the cost to have them authenticated. I also have a Colt Peacemaker serial # 301163 which the tag claims it was owned by a Mrs. M. E. Burk a.k.a. Calamity Jane. If you could forward this information or tell me who to contact to find out about this.

Answer:
Trent- I don't know how you obtained these guns, or how much they cost you. I hope not much.

Your Colt Single Action Peacemaker was made in 1907, according to the neat program at the bottom of our links on the left side that will look up dates of manufacture for a lot of guns. Calamity Jane died in 1903. Obviously there is an error or deception somewhere. I do not know what model S&W revolvers you have, but "Custer guns" have been a very lucrative items for sale to eager and gullible buyers for many years. I would be highly suspicious of anything offered with alleged "Custer" provenance. In fact I am so skeptical that I do not think I would EVER buy anything claimed to be Custer related. I don't know if S&W will reply without a fee. You might contact Jim Supica by email at OldTownSta@aol.com. He is author of the best book out on S&Ws, and has one of the best collections around of early S&Ws. I am sure he can look at your photo and serial numbers and tell you instantly when they were made. He has also written some excellent commentary on guns with alleged "pedigrees." Fine gentleman. Good luck. My recommendation would be to invest in a lot of good books and read them carefully before buying any more guns. Flayderman's "Guide" would be a great start. John Spangler

# 1741 - Winchester Model 67
1/23/99
Marty Mt. Pleasant SC USA

I recently inherited a Model 67 bolt-action 22, -engraving says 22 short long and long rifle Made in USA Winchester Repeating Arms Co-could not locate serial #. Any clue as to how old this gun is. Is in very good condition- what kind of value would it have.

Answer:
Marty, The Winchester Model 67 was manufactured from 1934 to 1942 and then again from 1946 to 1963. In all, about 383,600 Model 67 rifles were manufactured. Values for Model 67 Winchesters in excellent condition are in the $100 to $150 range, If you need extra parts, we are offering two Model 67s in our bargain basement catalog for $75 for both. We have recently answered another question about the Model 67, for more information check our the question and answer subject index. Marc

# 1757 - M9 Bayonet Blade
1/19/99
Alan

I have an M9 Bayonet with the markings of "M9 PHROBIS III US PAT.PEND. The only problem is I broke the blade and am now trying to get a replacement blade. Can you help me?

Answer:
Alan, Sorry, no parts for the M9. These are made as modular items so that parts can all be replaced, but the Army (in their usual wisdom) decided not to stock any parts, so if ANYTHING breaks, they replace the whole thing. Turn it in to supply and let them take care of it and issue you a new one. If desperate, you can get one of the BUCK brand copies in the PX and swap out the blade. I have seen the current issue LANCAY M9A1 advertised in Shotgun News for about $100. Scabbard is considerably different but blade is very similar except in finish (more of a dull gray than shiny silver color) and method of manufacture and markings. You might follow our links page and see if SARCO has those. There are at least 6 variations of the M9 so far. John Spangler

# 1750 - Derringer Pistol
1/19/99
Lesley

Years ago our father was given a small black-powder handgun that he was told was a Derringer of the type that John Wilkes Booth used to assassinate Abraham Lincoln. This gun has "Liverpool" engraved on the top of the butt and the name "T. Wilson & Co." We would like to find out the origin of this gun, its approximate age, and possibly its value as a collector's item.

Answer:
Lesley- Sounds like an interesting gun. I can find nothing to identify T. Wilson & Co. There are a couple of T. Wilsons who worked in Ohio and Kentucky, but not in towns named Liverpool. In England there was a Thomas Wilson (without "& Co.") but he worked in Birmingham, and there were no Wilsons making guns in Liverpool. All these were for the period circa 1840-1870. This was done by a quick check of Wilson & Eberhart's "The Derringer in America", Flayderman's Guide, Frank Sellers' "American Gunsmiths" and Bailey & Nye's "English Gunmakers." It only takes 10 minutes when you have the reference material handy.

If you send some photographs (get as close as you can and get shots of everything) to me at Box 711282, Salt Lake City, UT 84171 I will do some more research. There may be some proof marks to indicate country of origin, and the details of workmanship may point out a specific maker.

Another explanation may be that it has no resemblance to the Derringer used to kill Lincoln, but is something else which we could identify.

By the way, a distant ancestor of mine was one of the conspirators with John Wilkes Booth and got him into the theater and held his horse during the shooting. Spent several years in prison. John Spangler

# 1730 -
1/19/99
Steve, Leslie, Michigan, USA,

My father brought this pistol home with him from WWII. He recently passed away, and I would like to learn some more about this gun since it is now mine. Also, if there are any good sources for parts for this gun, I would be very grateful to learn of them. I especially need another clip for it, and one of the grips is broken. Thank you very much for your time and information.

Answer:
Steve, you probably have a Sauer Model 38. The Sauer Model 38 has a fixed barrel with coaxial recoil spring, the breach block is a separate component pinned into the slide. The Model 38 was unique in that it has and internal hammer which is linked to a de-cocking lever on the left side of the frame. If the hammer is cocked, pressing the de-cocking lever will allow the hammer to fall under control. If the hammer is down, downward pressure on the de-cocking lever will lift the hammer to full-cock. The lockwork is double-action and there is a magazine safety, and a chamber-loaded signal pin. Some very early model 38's and those made in 1944 and 1945 do not have a safety catch. Model 38 slides are marked 'JP Sauer & Sohn Cal 7,65' on the left, and `Patent' on the right. Model 38 grips carry the Sauer monogram (S&S). Model 38 magazine bases are stamped with the Sauer monogram and CAL. 7.65 (the Sauer monogram is omitted from magazines with a roll stamped floor plate). The military acceptance stamp (eagle over 37) is located on the upper left side of trigger guard. There is no military test proof. Commercial test proof (eagle over n) is located on the right side of the slide above the slide grip, on the right side of the frame below the slide grip, and on the right side of the barrel near the muzzle. Although this pistol was designated the model 38, its mass production did not commence until the late months of 1939. Sauer 38 serial numbers were initiated at approximately 260000 and terminated near 525000. Over 200,000 Model 38 pistols were procured for the German Military, Police, and NSDAP prior to April, l945 when the U.S. Army overran the Sauer factory. Because of the hammer-cocking lever, the Sauer 38 is one of the most advanced pistol designs ever to be mass-produced. The German designation for the weapon was Sauer Pistole Modell 38 Hahn Selbstspannung (Sauer Pistol Model 38 Hammer Selfcocking). Try Gun Parts Corp. for a source of parts, we have a link to them on our links page. Marc

# 1749 - Norfolk M1861 .58 Musket
1/16/99
Bill

I have a real old gun. It has the words U.S. Norfolk stamped on one side of the breech. On the other side of the breech there seems to be a 186. It looks to be pre civil war, but I have no clue what kind of gun it is. It also has a C.W. etched into the side of the gun. There is a W on the stock of the gun. Please, if you have any info on this type of gun, contact me. Thanks!

Answer:
Bill- You have a U.S. Model 1861 .58 caliber musket. This is one of about 18,000 made by Welch, Brown & Co. of Norfolk, Conn in 1863-64. They usually are called "Contract Springfields" since they are merely copies of the Springfield musket made by contractors (over 20 other makers had similar contracts). These were used in the Civil War.

If this is still in original configuration with 40 inch barrel, three barrel bands and stock running to within about 3 inches of the muzzle, it is a good collector item worth several hundred dollars or more depending on condition. If the stock and/or barrel has been cut down and the rifling removed to turn it into a shotgun for post-war farmers to shoot varmints, then you have about $100-200 worth of parts or a good decorator item for over the fireplace.

If in original configuration we would be glad to help you sell it. John Spangler

# 1748 - Cooper Firearms Cap And Ball Pistol
1/16/99
Jim

Patent dates (ca Civil War) are clearly visible on top of barrel. Circa 1882-69. The gun is in excellent condition with some abrasion on the barrel and a very little tarnish on the revolver assembly. The brass trigger assembly and walnut grip is in perfect condition. My father owns this pistol and several other guns of this vintage. This gun was owned by "little old lady" school teacher who carried it in her purse for personal protection while traveling between her schools in Kansas and Oklahoma. We are looking for information on manufacturer and any details about the history of this type of gun. Approximate value would be appreciated

Answer:
Jim - If you have a number of old guns like this and want to learn a lot more about them, I recommend purchase of "Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and their values (7th edition)" It is $32.95 and any bookstore can order it if they do not have it in stock. Author is Norm Flayderman and it is published by Krause Publications.

J.M. Cooper & Co was located in Pittsburgh from the 1850 to 1864 then in Philadelphia from 1864-69. They made a total of about 15,000 pistols all very similar. They were either 5 or 6 shot, in .31 or .36 caliber, and barrels were 4,5, or 6 inch. Trigger guards and backstraps were either iron or brass. The .31 caliber models were called "pocket model" while the .36 were called "Navy model" The .36 caliber models were only made after the move to Philadelphia, Frankford being a section of Philadelphia.

Your pistol falls into the "Philadelphia Second Model Navy" category. Flayderman lists the value for this in NRA antique "fine" condition (see our links for definitions) as $900. IF much better than that, then the price would be higher. While these do not have the collector interest of old Colts or Remingtons, they are popular items. Hope this helps. If you decide to sell any of these we would be happy to help find them good homes. We have information on some of the ways to sell these at http://oldguns.net/CnsgnSale.htm John Spangler

# 1747 - M1884 Springfield
1/16/99

I have a 1884 Springfield Trapdoor 2 band with bayonet. Very good to excellent cond. Was wondering what it might sell for.

Answer:
Sir- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters.

Flayderman lists value for standard M1884 rifle in NRA antique very good and excellent as $400 and $1150 respectively. (See our links for definition of conditions). Bayonet adds another $50-100. Condition is very important.

Dealers normally buy at 60-70% of what they expect to sell an item for. We handle consignment sales for a fee of 20% of the actual selling price. We have more info on consignment sales advantages and disadvantages at http://oldguns.net/CnsgnSale.htm and would be glad to handle sale of this on consignment if you desire. John Spangler

# 1746 - US S&W, Etc
1/12/99
Lehandre South Africa

I would like some info on a S&W. I bought it from a deceased estate. The chap was 97 and from the US. I don't know any more about him or where he got the gun from.

It has the "US" stamp on the barrel. What does that mean. Has the New Generation/ Lemon Squeezer seen any military action. I gather from you previous replies to others that they are quite good little guns. Most of the info seekers seem to have versions with a longer barrel. Mine is only 2" long.

Secondly, what would the value of a BSA .303 (circa 1892) be. My great grandfather used the gun during the Anglo-Boer war in SA. He later got a Lee Enfield from a Brit on the battlefield. (At the peace of Verening a town in the old Transvaal, they had to hand all the weapons to the British. He kept the BSA) I understand that the BSA was used as a hunting rifle until the war in 1998 and all the men were called to join the commandos. The used whatever they could get as fire arms.

I also own a old Martini Henri-rifle. No marks on the rifle and I've never fired it. It takes a single bullet which is big by today's standards. Its from the same great-grandfather.

What advice or info can you give me regarding these arms. Thanks for the help, Lehandre

Answer:
Lehandre- Jim Supica and Richard Nahas' "Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson" on p.52 has an interesting note concerning the .38 Hammerless 3rd Model variations: "38 Hammerless Army Test Revolver: 100 sold to US Government in 1890, marked 'U.S.' on the left side barrel lug. These guns are 3rd models, although they are in the 2nd model serial range 41333-41470. Blue w/6" barrel. Exc $7,000, Fine $5,000, VG $4,000, Good $3,500, Fair $2500, Poor $1,500"

While it may be a life saver with the 2 inch barrel, as a collector piece it is almost fatally flawed now.

If the 1892 BSA is a Magazine Lee Metford Mark I or Mark I* in original configuration (full length stock and barrel, not cut down for hunting) I think there wound be a great deal of collector interest and the value dependent on condition. I would estimate that it would sell in the $500-1500 range in the US. The history certainly adds a great deal of interest

Martini Henry is probably .577-450. Neat old guns, but values tend to be relatively modest.

I don't know what the South African gun laws are like, but I would think there would be great interested in the rifles there. John Spangler

# 1745 - M1849.31 Cal. Colt Pistol
1/12/99
Nicki Azle, Texas USA

On top of the barrel it says" Address Col Sam'l Colt New York U.S. America. On the barrel it says " Colt's Patent , No. 46447". also on the barrel there is a faint picture , It looks like some people sitting in a boat, in front of a wheel (paddlewheel?) On the side of the gun it says Colts Patent. the #'s in front of the trigger on the steel part are 2 sets the 1st sets are 246447, the trigger and handle frame is brass and the #'s are 245643, those #'s are also on the butt of the handle, on the brass part. , also on the side, on the brass it says 31 cal. The handles are walnut, one piece. Is this a replica, or real one, It looks right, but I'm just a dumb female, so please bear with me. I would appreciate any info and a value on the real thing and replica.

Answer:
Nicki- Thanks for contacting us. Always glad to help out beginning collectors of either gender. Save the "dumb female" act for when you are going to buy something, making sure you know all about it before making the owner a ridiculous offer.

The cylinder scene is hard to understand unless you have seen it clearly reproduced in print. It actually shows some good guys in a stage coach defending themselves against bandits. Presumably this is accomplished with one of Sam Colt's products. The "stagecoach holdup" scene is found on the Model 1849 "Pocket Model" .31 caliber revolvers. There are many minor variations in barrel lengths and markings, trigger guard style, etc. A long out of print book "Colt's Variations of the Old Model Pocket Pistol, 1848-1872" by Shumaker is the best current reference. However, two new researchers are well along on a new book on the subject.

Flayderman's "Guide to Antique American Firearms and their Values" is a very worthwhile investment for info on these an current prices. This will run about $32.95 at your local book dealer or you can get it on the net.

A typical value for a common variation in NRA antique good condition (see our links for definition) will run about $500, while one in fine may run $1200-1500. Modern made copies are widely available and often cost less than $300. Some have been sold as originals with or without any faking of markings, etc, so be very careful. Get a bill of sale from the seller stating that is an original made circa 1849-1872, and guaranteeing full refund if it is determined to be otherwise.

Your serial number indicates manufacture in 1863 and these were popular privately purchased weapons carried by many soldiers. Hope this helps. Hope you find gun collecting to be an interesting hobby. John Spangler

# 1719 - International Harvester M1 Garand.
1/12/99
Ed, Grapevine, TX

Gentlemen, I have recently acquired my IH M1 through the CMP. All parts are original to an IH rifle. Would this be considered one of the more desirable collectors or is it run of the mill? I wonder about its value due to the fact that few if any IH or H

Answer:
Ed, Congratulations on getting your M1 rifle from the CMP, according to my records your M1was manufactured in 1954. I think that any M1 Garand that has all correct and matching parts (no matter who the manufacturer) is a desirable collectors item. From some of the stories that I have heard about CMP rifles, I think that you can count yourself lucky to get one with all matching parts. I have always liked IHC M1 Garands and I have one in my own collection. The blue book does not add a premium for International Harvester manufactured M1 Garand rifles, but my opinion is that they are worth more than post war Springfields or H&R-s. Marc

# 1744 - Hamilton 47 .22 Rifle
1/9/99
Ken

Would like any info you may have as to when manufactured, and app. value if poss.

Answer:
Ken- The Hamilton Model 47 single shot bolt action.22 rifle with 16 inch barrel was made starting about 1927. By 1932 it had evolved to the Model 147 with a 18 inch barrel. There are a wide variety of minor variations in these models, so production is probably in the many thousands or tens of thousands.

There is quite a bit of interest in collecting these old "Boys' rifles." I could not find a specific listing in a value guide, but would estimate in the $125-450 range depending on condition. John Spangler

# 1743 - Chat Room
1/9/99

Do you have a chat room and what is the connection. If not can you give me a good chat room where I can talk to individuals about serious firearm collectibles. Thanks for any info.

Answer:
Sir - We do not like chat room formats, and not even some of the sites that end up with long strings of back and forth messages. We are not going to add anything like that to our site, nor do we have any recommendations.

My strong recommendation is to invest in GOOD reference books and study carefully. While the books may not be infallible, you will get a lot more and much better info from them than from a bunch of folks with computers and time on their hands and absolutely unknown qualifications to say anything about collectable guns.

A lot of people think we know what we are talking about, and we have many years experience in our fields, and huge libraries to draw on. In a chat room our opinion would be equal to someone who just "knows it all" and once heard someone else tell them about a friend's cousin who used a Winchester 1894 .30-30 with a brass frame to shoot a deer at 800 yards with a 5/16 bolt stuffed into a .45 Auto case filled with Bullseye. And, of course, they have turned down $32,857.00 for that rifle, but want to know what it is worth. It is like new, except for the broken stock, cut down barrel, 9 extra holes for sights and scope mounts, but all that is tough to see since Bubba redid it with cold blue and some camouflage paint on the stock. On the bright side, they will be glad to answer your questions.....

You can spend a lot of time listening to stories or read a good book. You decide. We will be glad to sell you some books, but many of the best are still in print and can be purchased through Amazon .com or some of the specialized gun book dealers (IDSA in Piqua, Ohio, Rutgers in Highland Park, NJ, John Denner in Canada, etc). Good luck. If you act quickly Santa may even bring a couple of books. John Spangler

# 1707 - Should I Shoot My Luger?
1/9/99
Jason, Orlando, FL, USA

Well, I'll list them all for you: On the right side: On the frame near the rear of the gun just above the grip, there is a small crown with what appears to be a stylized "CP" below it. On the barrel/chamber assembly, there are four stamps. The first is the crown described above, the next two are a set of Nazi eagles with the number 63 below them. The last is a Nazi eagle grasping a swastika. Finally, on the barrel, towards the rear, there is another eagle w/swastika. On the left side: Just above the turn-down release lever to disassemble the gun, the serial number is stamped. The number 09 is stamped on the lever itself. Just behind the release lever, the number 09 is stamped onto a plate (this plate pops off when field-stripping the weapon). Just behind the plate on the frame is stamped the number 2. On the left of the forward toggle segment is a Nazi eagle w/swastika (same size as the one on the barrel on the right hand side). On the top and rear: Directly behind the barrel the number 1939 is stamped. The small crown described above is stamped on the forward, middle, and rear segments of the toggle. The letters "byf" are stamped into the middle segment of the toggle, along with 09. The number 09 is also stamped into the rear of the toggle just below the sight, and into the frame just below the rear of the toggle. Elsewhere: The serial number is stamped into the front of the trigger housing, with a script "t" below it. On the underside of the barrel the following appears (starting closest to the trigger and moving down): 8,81, then the serial number, then a small picture which is hard to distinguish (possibly an oil dropper or something) with the letters "NP" below it, then the following line: 9M/M .752" 13 TON You'll have to excuse me if I ask some obvious stuff, I'm not too experienced with preservation or collecting really. We've had this gun forever, and I was just recently looking into it. First off, I was wondering about the approximate value of the weapon. Unfortunately, there is pitting all over the gun: especially on the barrel, frame, and trigger. The toggle and chamber seem to have escaped it. Since I'm not an expert, I can't rate the finish for you, but if I had to guess I would say it's probably 70-75%. I can say that it has not completely worn off at any point, save where the pitting has occurred. All of the serial numbers match, including the magazine (the only one I have is the one that came in the gun). The grips are dark wood, with a checkered design, still very clearly defined, and with a "Bullseye" on either side app. even with the trigger. The weapon still fires (quite well I might add, and very accurately), although after reading a few of the postings on here, I think that I will stop shooting it to prevent any further wear. Secondly, I was wondering about the "new" American Eagle Lugers. I really like the Luger I have, and if I am going to stop taking it to the range, I would love to have a replacement for it. Despite the age of its design, it has to be one of the best 9mm pistols I have ever fired. If you have any words about the new Lugers, I would like to hear them. Third (and finally), what can I do to prevent further pitting and other damage to the gun? I would like to preserve it from this point on, and if you could offer any advice (or recommend publications), I would appreciate it.

Answer:
Jason, you have an interesting Luger, that seems to have been to several different countries. The 63 marking that you describe is the German WW-II Heerswaffenamt inspector's mark on arms produced at Mauser Werke AG, Oberndorf am Neckar, Germany, and byf is the ordinance code for Mauser-Werke, Oberndorf on the Neckar, 1939 is the year of manufacture. The 09-s stamped on various parts are numbers that match the particular part to the pistol, "8.81" is the bore size in millimeters and the scriptive "t" is the serial number suffix. The "NP 9M/M .752" 13 TON" is a British proof mark and so is Crown over CP. I do not believe that your grips are original. Values for Lugers in the condition that you describe, would be in the $200 to $300 dollar range. If you like shooting your Luger my advise would be to continue to do so, in it's present condition, value and collectability will not be affected by firing it. Make sure to keep it cleaned and well oiled to prevent further degeneration. Marc

# 1742 - Remington Model 4, "Boys' Rifle"
1/5/99
Daisy

I have a Remington 22 cal. with a hex barrel and a thing that people are calling a rolling lock action. It also has a lever that when turned the barrel and butt come apart. Have you ever heard of such a creature? The serial number is J248005 22, is it worth anything or do you know any information about this gun??? Like what year was it made and is it military or just retail??? Stuff like that, any information that you have would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
You have a Remington Model 4, commonly called a "Boys' rifle" as these small light weight rifles were usually purchased by or for youngsters. (Often sold mail order, with no waiting period, no background check, no minimum age, and no epidemic of kids shooting each other.) There are a couple of variations, with the most common having 22.5 inch barrel and short front stock. One price guide lists the value on these in NRA antique Very Good condition (see our links for definition) as $150. bout 50,000 of these were made circa 1890-1933, all for commercial sale. A rare variation has a 28 inch round barrel with a full stock. Those marked "Military Model" are valued at about 650 in very good condition, and a small number made marked "American Boy Scout" at about $1,400. Although looking like military rifles, these were all made for commercial sale. John Spangler

# 1739 - Winchester Model 1886 .40-82 Rifle
1/5/99
Merlyn, Beulah, N.D.

I got this rifle from my Grand Father and was wondering what the value of it. It has a pat of Oct 14, 1884 and under that it says Jan 20 1885. It has an octagon barrel and on the barrel in front of the breach is 40-82. It is in excellent shape.

Answer:
Merlyn- You have a fine rifle. The Model 1886 Winchester ia a very strong design and very popular with collectors. Many consider it one of John M. Borrowing's best designs. The patent dates made it easy to identify the proper model. The serial number indicates it was made in early 1889. There were many special optional features available and if present they would increase the value. Any alterations done to the gun will decrease the value. For a standard M1886 Winchester in NRA very good condition Flayderman's Guide shows a value of $850, and if in NRA antique Excellent (see our links for definitions) he places it at $3,000. If you decide to sell it, let us know, we can help find it a good home. John Spangler

# 1706 - Remington M14A
1/5/99
Simon, Bloomington, Indiana

Approximately how many of these rifles(just M14s in general)were made? Were the M14R and M14 1/2 models available in all the grades (A, C, D, and F)? Are there many M14 collectors?

Answer:
Simon, The Model 14 sporting rifle was manufactured by the Remington Arms Company, Ilion, New York from 1912 to 1936, it was an enlargement of the .22 caliber Model 12 tipping-bolt action designed to handle centerfire ammunition. Standard rifles were equipped with a straight-wrist butt, ribbed slide handle, round barrel, 5 round tubular magazine, and a spring-leaf and elevator rear sight. A special spiral magazine was used to prevent cartridge noses from igniting the primer ahead of them in the magazine. The model 14 was the first truly successful slide-action centerfire sporting rifle. Optional extras included half pistol grip butt stocks and differing finishes. Collector interest in Remington Model 14 rifles is low, blue book values range from $100.00 to $300.00 depending upon condition, but I usually feel lucky when I sell one for over $175.00. Marc

# 1798 - Answer Number 447 3/13/1997 SA Marking
1/5/99
Raimo

We would like to thank a visitor to our site from Finland for the following information:

Answer:
Though the question is very old I like to add my assumption about SA marking. In Finnish Army almost all their property is marked with SA ( which comes from SUOMEN ARMEJA = FINNISH ARMY in Finnish language) Also markings like "SA 45 Int" are common vhere 45=year and Int=Inventory office. So may be that Mr Baranov's Mauser is from Finland winter war or 39-45 wars or SA surplus sales. Regards Raimo H. Finland

# 1738 - Japanese Matchlock
1/2/99
Jason Backus MN USA

I am struggling to find info about an antique Japanese gun manufactured about 300 years ago. It is known (I believe) as a matchlock and is a 20 mm. I am willing to pay top dollar for an original. Does anyone know anything about such an item? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jason

Answer:
Jason- Where you been? We had two really nice matchlocks for sale recently on our collectable arms catalog pages. True, they were a little more than we can pay for with pocket change (well over $1,000 each) but darn nice pieces. I don't think they were as large as 20mm (about .80 caliber), but more like .50-55 caliber. There is little reference material on these, but they are found in an amazing variety of configurations, and can be several hundred years old, or as recent at about 1860 with little to distinguish one from another. Hope this helps, but we encourage people to check our catalog pages regularly. You may not want to order everything but you can learn a lot about a wide variety of guns and militaria. John Spangler

# 1737 - Steyr Pocket Model
1/2/99
Sal

I inherited from my father a 32 CAL break open (tilt-down) automatic which was taken from a high ranking German officer during WWII. My father told me that he believed it was pretty valuable because his limited research (years ago) appeared to indicate that many of this specific model were not produced and/or not in circulation. I have been told that the pistol was made by the Oesterreiches Waffenfabriks Geselschaft, Steyr (The Austrian Weapons Factory Inc) Steyr, Austria and may be a model of 1909. The barrel length is about 3.5 inches (1.75 inches of which extends past the trigger guard). It has a 7 clip magazine and is black or dark blue in color. Aside from the manufacturer's name on the frame it has the following markings: a stamp "N. PIEPER PATENT', a stamp PAT.No.9379-05 No.25025-06 u No.16715-08, a stamp PAT.* No. 40335, a stamp 22231, and a stamp11 with what appears to be a small official crest next to the 11. There is also the word STEYR and a crest on both sides of the grip. The firearm appears to be in excellent both aesthetically and functionally. I am interested in your assessment of its value and any information relating to potential purchasers.

Answer:
Sal, Your pistol is a Steyr Pocket Model. Steyr Pocket Model pistols were designed by Nicholas Pieper of Liege who patented his tip-down barrel automatic pistol in 1908 and produced pistols under his own name. Pieper licensed his tipping-barrel blowback patent to Steyr together with some small improvements and they were introduced by Steyr in 1909, in both 6.35mm and 7.65mm calibres. There are small detail differences between the Steyr and the Pieper products, such as the contour of the frame and the cutting of finger grooves, which probably reflect the use of different machinery, but mechanically, they are the same.

Steyr manufactured pistols can be easily identified by their markings: 'Pat No. 9379-05 u No. 25025-06' on the upper left side of the barrel block; 'Oesterr Waffenfabrik Ges Steyr' on the left side of the receiver; 'Pat + No. 40335' on the right side of the barrel block (the + indicating a Swiss patent number); and 'N Pieper Patent' on the right side of the receiver. Models made after 1911 had another patent number `No. 16715-O8' added to the left of the barrel block. A useful feature of the Steyr marking system is that the last significant digits of the year of manufacture are stamped on the left side of the barrel block, just ahead of the frame.

Manufacture of the Steyr Pocket Model pistols was suspended in 1914, resumed in 1921, and continued until 1939.

There is not a large demand for Steyr pocket pistols, blue book values for examples in excellent condition are in the $200 to $250 range. Marc

# 1720 - Colt Army Revolver
1/2/99
Kurt

Pat. mark on right side of frame above trigger"Pat. Sept 19 1871 July 2. 72 Jan 19. 75"Top of barrel stamped"Colt's PT.F.A Mfg Co Hartford Ct USA" From the information I have given you, can you tell me what year this weapon was made? There is no obvious marking on it other than the patent date. I am hoping you can tell by the serial number. Thanks.

Answer:
Kurt - Colt Made a SAA Army in 1902 with that serial number. As long as there are no other letters before or after the serial number and no foreign proofmarks anywhere, it is probably original.

If it is factory original nickel, and not refinished (many, if not most, have been because the nickel flakes easily) in .45 it would be an attractive collector item. If in through 95% with no buggering of screw heads, good bore, god grips, etc, and no replaced parts you are probably talking about $4,000-$6,000. If it has problems, price can drop considerably, but still it is probably at least $1000.

It may be worth getting a "factory letter" from Colt, but these do cost about $300 now.

There have been a lot of Colt copies made, some have been faked up and sold as real Colts, and refinishing and "improving" old Colts has been epidemic. These are not worth as much as the un-messed with real thing. John Spangler

# 1705 - Remington 550-1 Serial Number
1/2/99
Russ, Gonzales, LA, USA

None that I can tell. I recently purchased the above gun from an old man who lives nearby. I was in the process of recording the information related to this gun in my records and I found that I was not able to find the serial number. This may sound stupid, but can you tell me where the serial number is supposed to be located on this firearm? This is a very accurate rifle and is capable of chambering .22 Shorts, Longs, and Long Rifles cartridges. I hope that someone didn't remove the number. I appreciate your response. Thanks, Russ

Answer:
Russ, I have always liked the Remington 550 series 22 rifles, I think that they point well, are very accurate and fun to shoot. Unfortunately, my liking for the rifles got me into trouble once, it was right before Christmas and I was late to meet my wife at a charity event. I was offered a 550 for sale and since I was already in the doghouse for being late, I neglected to check the bore before I purchased it. I remember anticipating how much fun the rifle would be to shoot, and thinking that I might add it to my personal collection rather than putting it up for sale. My anticipation turned to dismay and embarrassment the next morning when I got my new prize out and started cleaning it, I found 5 bulges, each about three inches apart in the barrel. My guess is that someone accidentally plugged the barrel and fired 5 rounds before they realized that nothing was coming out the other end.

Your Remington may not have ever had a serial number. The Remington 550 -1 was manufactured from 1946 to 1971 (and thus prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 which imposed the requirement that all guns be serial numbered). It is not uncommon to find guns manufactured before 1968 , especially 22 rifles and inexpensive shotguns that were not numbered. Have fun shooting your newly acquired 550-1. Marc