# 12499 - Frontier Scout With A Strange SN?
2/27/2007
Patrick, Mansfield, TX

On the trigger guard 2 markings; towards the barrel - a small triangle, towards the backstrap the letter ''J'' The pistol appears to made with different types of metal; the barrel, cylinder and trigger are blued, but the frame assembly and backstrap are silver colored, possibly stainless. Can you tell me the year of manufacture and the approximate value? I have tried to look up by the serial number, but all the listings I have researched have letters at the end of the serial number and this one does not; can you offer any information? Thank you.

Answer:
Patrick, your description sounds like a Frontier Scout Q model revolver, could the last character in your serial number be a "Q" instead of a "0"? Frontier Scout Q model revolvers all had a cast aluminum frame but in some of the early versions the frame was left unfinished or in the white. All pistols were changed to blue finish after the first two years of production, and a low serial number like 1833Q would fit with this theory. The blue book lists values for Q series Frontier Scout revolvers between $150 and $600 depending on condition. They say that models with the bright alloy frame are rare but until recently, they did not add a premium for them. Now they instruct to add 25% for "Q" suffix models with the bright frame which they call a "duo-tone" finish. Marc

# 12497 - Is It Safe?
2/27/2007
Dallas

marked ''Patented Apr 20 1897 Dec 22 1903'' on right side. What would be the date of manufacture for the above noted serial number? The weapon appears to be in excellent condition (except for finish). Would this weapon generally be safe to fire?

Answer:
Dallas, references indicate that your Colt was manufactured in 1920. You would be foolish to trust the word of someone who has never even seen your pistol to tell you weather or not it is safe to fire. In our society where everyone seems to be ready to file a law suit for even the slightest provocation, I would be just as foolish to answer that kind of question. I hope that this is not an attempt on your part to hit the jackpot. Marc

# 12435 - Shooting S&W Ladysmith 1st model
2/27/2007
Mona

I have a 1st series S & W .22 Ladysmith revolver, circa 1901-03, double action, 7 shot revolver in grand shape, but have no ammo for it. .22 long won't fit, of course. Do you have or know of appropriate cartridges?

Answer:
Mona- I believe they were chambered for .22 shorts, which were loaded with black powder at that time. I would not recommend firing it with modern ammo and risk injury to your self and a neat old gun. John Spangler

# 12434 - Springfield Model 1903 Sporter?
2/24/2007
RJ

I just purchased a Springfield # 1532642 NRA, a Sporter look-alike. It has the correct M-22 stock with correct profiled butplate and furniture. I can't find much on the Serial # other than 1938-39 date of manufacture and fits into a category of RCVR sales to DCM. If it isn't a NRA DCM sale someone went to great lengths to make it look like one. It has the correct lyman site, etc. It has, however, been drilled for scope blocks. Any help would be appreciated. I paid $300.00 for it...so a good bore and great fitting gun that looks like a 1925-34 NRA Sporter isn't a bad thing. Thanks.

Answer:
RJ- It looks like you have pretty well researched this and identified what your rifle is. I suspect it is a handsome gun, and a fine shooter. Sounds like the price was very reasonable, and it will be one you can shoot and enjoy, without worrying about putting a scratch on a $$$$ collector gun. Enjoy! John Spangler

# 12433 - Miroku 22 Caliber 4 Barrel Pistol
2/24/2007
Jamie- New York

I am interested in determining how much a collector might pay for this gun. It is a Miroku 22 Caliber 4 barrel pistol. It looks similar to a Sharps Derringer 4 Barrel pistol circa 1859-1874. Thank you.

Answer:
Jamie- Sorry, we cannot help with that one. I know that these were made, but have no feel for values. Since the originals are not all that expensive (often $150-250) I think a repro would bring about half that since the repros are "modern" and subject to all the paperwork nonsense. On the other hand, the modern ones probably could be shot, so maybe the Cowboy Action shooters would like them. I think that copies are being made in Italy now. John Spangler

# 12506 - Identify Sauer Pistol
2/24/2007
Randy

Has 7.65cal. printed on side. and J.P. Sauer & Sohn. Suhl. My father brought back with him from Germany during WW2 and is a holster with the eagle and swastika on. I can't seem to find is how much it would be worth with the holster

Answer:
Randy, the answer to your question depends on several bits of information that you did not send me. It is impossible to give you an accurate value without at lest knowing what model you have and the kind of condition that the pistol is in.

One often encounters Sauer Model 38 pistols from WWII and there is a good possibility that this is what you have. You can recognize a Sauer 38 because it has a unique internal hammer which is linked to a de-cocking lever on the left side of the frame. If the hammer is cocked, pressing the de- cocking lever will allow it to fall under control without detonating a cartridge. If the hammer is down, downward pressure on the de-cocking lever will lift the hammer to full-cock. Model 38 lockwork is double-action and there is a magazine safety, and a chamber-loaded signal pin. Some very early model 38's and those made in 1944 and 1945 do not have a safety catch. Model 38 slides are marked 'JP Sauer & Sohn Cal 7,65' on the left, and `Patent' on the right. Model 38 grips carry the Sauer monogram (S&S) on the left hand side.

Because of the hammer-cocking/de-cocking lever, the Sauer 38 is one of the most advanced pistol designs ever to be mass-produced. The German designation for the weapon was Sauer Pistole Model 38 Hahn Selbstspannung (Sauer Pistol Model 38 Hammer Self cocking. Over 200,000 model 38 pistols were procured by the German military, NSDAP and Police before the U.S. overran the factory in April of 1945.

If your pistol was military issue, it should have the military acceptance stamp (eagle over 37) located on the upper left side of trigger guard. All pistols should have the commercial test proof (eagle over n) located on the right side of the slide above the slide grip, on the right side of the frame below the slide grip, and on the right side of the barrel near the muzzle. Pistols procured by the police will be marked with police acceptance stamps (eagle over "X" in a circle to the left of "C" or "F") located on the left trigger guard web.

Value for a Sauer 38 can range from around $250 to over $500, add $25 to $125 for the holster, both depending on condition. If you want to sell send me some pictures. Marc

# 12502 - Nickel MAB d
2/20/2007
Arlene, Orange City, IA

My father took this gun home after WWII. What does MAB Brevete mean? What is the history behind this gun. What is the value?

Answer:
Arlene, the letters MAB are the initials of the manufacturer of your father's pistol, they stand for Manufacture D'Armes Des Bayonne of Bayonne, France. The Model D was first introduced in 1933 and was still being produced when the company went out of business in the mid 1980s. The Model D was used by the French military and was also produced for the German military during the German occupation of France in WWII. Pistols manufactured for the Germans have German proof marks and acceptance stamps.

Originally these pistols had a blue finish, the nickel finish that your pistol has will affect it's value. I would expect to see a pistol like you describe offered for sale at a gunshow in the $175 range. Marc

# 12503 - Need Barrel For Walther Model ???
2/20/2007
Mike Ossipee NH

None Can replacement barrels be bought? And from who?

Answer:
Mike, the answer to your question depends on what model your pistol is. PP and PPK barrels are pinned to the frame and the Numrich Gun Parts catalogue does not list them as separate items. Your best hope may be to look for a similar pistol that can be purchased inexpensively because of a heavily worn or damaged exterior. A good gunsmith should be able to swap the barrel for you. Marc

# 12432 - UMSC Hospital Bolo
2/20/2007
Jess

I have a USMC hospital bolo machete 43. Could you explain what the hospital stands for and what were the uses?

Answer:
Jess- Navy Hospital Corpsmen provided medical care to Marine units, while the Army had their own Army medics. Medical folks used their bolos to clear areas for aid stations, chop tree branches for use as splints, make shelters, open supply crates, etc. The Hospital bolos were heavier and capable of more cutting than the smaller M1910, 1912 or 1917 general purpose bolos carried by some combat troops for utility purposes. Hope that helps. John Spangler

# 12431 - Hermann Goering’s Luger
2/17/2007
Richard

I am curious if anyone knows the fate of H. Goering's Luger. I was able to find one reference online, which was the story of Goering's surrender to the 36th Division in Kufstein. Purportedly, Reichmarschall Goering was relieved of his sidearm by Second Lieutenant Gordon Bent, from which a Major took the pistol and passed it on to a Lt. Colonel and from there who knows. I am curious because an acquaintance received a Luger from a WWII veteran who claims the pistol was H. Goerings'. I am sure that this claim has been made many times since WWII. The only info I have is that the pistol's manufacture number is 5000. Any ideas where the real Luger is? Any information would be appreciated!

Answer:
Richard- We cannot help much with the specifics on that. Anyone can claim anything, but when they expect people to pay a premium for an alleged historical connection, the added value depends greatly on the amount of documentation. A gun with a story and no paperwork is worth little more than the same sort of gun with no story.

First, you need to confirm that Goering actually had a Luger, not the more modern P38, or the smaller PP/PPK carried by many senior officers. Then you need to show that the "captor" was there at the place and time the Goering was captured.

Then you need to prove that this is the gun that was taken from a specific individual. Serial numbers do not help a lot because the Germans repeated the same numbers with all makers, and each year they would start at 0001 and go up to 9999 and then go back to 0001and add a letter "a" so it became 0001a up to 9999a, then 0001b through 9999b, etc. Any document bearing the serial number would also need to show the maker and date of manufacture to narrow it down to a specific gun.

It the story possible? Yes. Would I pay tens of thousands of dollars for this gun- NO WAY! John Spangler

# 12430 - Spanish Mauser 11mm “ Poison Bullets”
2/17/2007
Charles- Colorado

I'm a US Army Explosive Ordnance Disposal specialist. We've taken possession of a cartridge that we have limited information about. I'm hoping you can help fill in some useful information for us.

A local museum curator contacted us because his museum came into possession of an 11mm Spanish Mauser cartridge. Apparently this round was recovered from a Spanish-American war battlefield in Puerto Rico Circa 1898. Also apparently, this cartridge was identified in the Hartley & Graham 1895-1899 ammunition catalog as a "poisonous cartridge". That's all we know about the cartridge at the moment. He was understandably concerned about danger from any hazardous substances, so he contacted us and asked us to resolve the issue.

I'm trying to find out specifics about what makes this cartridge "poisonous". Does it contain a toxic agent intended to harm the target, or does it just contain some hazardous material (i.e. heavy metals) inherent in the manufacturing or storage process? Unfortunately, none of our service publications or manuals have data on foreign ammunition that old. I haven't had much luck searching public sources, And when I ran a google search, your site was the only one I found that made reference to 11mm Spanish cartridges as "poison bullets" (item 1379 on your website).

I'd like to determine exactly what about the cartridge is toxic, so that I can make an informed decision as to how to proceed. I'd appreciate any information you might have that you'd be willing to share. Thanks in advance.

Answer:
Charles- First, thank you for your service to our country. The EOD community is doing a great job, working overtime in the IED business, with very little publicity, and sadly even less appreciation by the mainstream media

The "poison bullet" story has been around since at least 1898 when our troops first encountered this ammo during the Spanish-American War. Perhaps it seemed reasonable at the time where wounds were likely to become badly infected in the tropics with the limited medical options available at the time. The ugly appearance of this ammo led to speculation (later accepted by many) that they were intentionally causing infection. This was driven by the brass coating on the case and the bullet which tended to corrode easily in the tropics with a green verdigris substance. There is no indication that there was actually any material in the bullet core or exterior that is any more hazardous than any other cartridges of the era. This is common knowledge among cartridge collectors, and is also documented in numerous editions of Frank Barnes' Cartridges of the World. This cartridge is most often called the 11.5 x 57mm rimmed Spanish Reformado cartridge.

No special treatment is required to safely handle or store this ammunition. For museum purposes, I would recommend wiping with a clean cloth and applying a coat of wax to create a barrier between the brass and the air to prevent corrosion. John Spangler

# 12460 - Marlin Target Rifle
2/17/2007
Doug Weeping Water NE

My son doesn't use this any more and I wondered what it is worth

Answer:
Doug, references indicate that the Model 2000 Target was a single shot bolt action .22 caliber, rifle that could be converted to a repeater. It came with a 22 inch heavy barrel, Lyman adjustable sights, 2 stage target trigger, molded synthetic stock, adjustable buttplate, aluminum forearm rail. Weight was about 8 pounds. Marlin manufactured the 2000 Target from 1991 to 1995. Values for this rifle range from $200 to a little over $500 depending on condition but lately target guns seem to be slow sellers. Marc

# 11912 - Arisaka in 8 mm Mauser?
2/13/2007
Adam, Foster, RI, USA

This firearm never received the traditional ''Mum'' forward of the receiver. It is not chambered in either 6.5mm or 7.7mm. It appears to be in 8mm Mauser. Chambered fine. Could this be a firearm made in Manchuria? And is it 8mm Mauser? How much is it worth?

Answer:
Adam, the Japanese made several million Arisaka rifles. The action is one of the strongest of any military rifle made during the 1930s and 1940s. The 8 mm Mauser caliber was the standard caliber of Chiang Kai Shek's Kuomingtang army in their struggle with Mao for control of China from 1945-1949. The Japanese army surrendered to Chiang's army in China in 1945. Some of these rifles were rechambered to the 8 mm Mauser round and issued to Chiang's army. How it got to the U.S. is harder to figure out, but it may have come from Taiwan, or even China via some intermediate country.

The Type 99 Arisaka rifle was also rechambered for the U.S. 30-06 round by the U.S. military during the Korean war and issued to some units of the S. Korean army. Marc

# 11908 - Use The Link!
2/13/2007
Richard, Kopperl, TX

Would like to know date of manufacture. Has been in my family for over 70 years. Still in excellent condition.

Answer:
Richard, the OldGuns.net Winchester date of manufacture program is a good place to find the information that you are looking for. There is a link to the our date of manufacture program on the OldGuns.net menu bar. When I entered your serial number, our program indicated that your rifle was manufactured in 1935. Marc

# 12429 - 1891 Argentine Mauser Value
2/13/2007
Chuck

I have an 1891 mauser modelo argentino manufactura berlin. I've been trying to sell it but I changed my mind when a buddy told me it was worth about $900.00. Is this true?

Answer:
Chuck- Since you are a nice guy, you should let him have it for $500 before he changes his mind, and he can sell it at $900 and get rich-----if he knows someone crazier than he is. I see many really minty examples selling in the $300-500 retail range, but can sometimes still find them for as little as $150. This assumes all original, not sporterized or anything. Hope that helps. John Spangler

# 12428 - Tracing History Of Civil War Gun
2/10/2007

I was wondering how to trace back a guns owner or history with the serial number. It’s an 1863 Springfield rifle, both number match on barrel and gun. I was wondering what its worth? Its is in excellent shape.

Answer:
Vespa- First we need to be sure what model you have. Model 1863 Springfields were not numbered, but they did have the date of manufacture on the barrel and the lockplate. 1863 dated locks were later used with Model 1868 and 1870 .50-70 "trapdoor" rifles. All of the Model 1868 rifles had a serial number on the left side of the receiver and right next to that, the same number on the barrel. Some of the Model 1870 rifles were serial numbered, but not most of them.

The only known source of information to track U.S. military arms by serial number can be found on our other side, http://ArmsCollectors.com on the Springfield Research Service page.

You can compare condition of your rifle with those offered for sale on various internet sites and get an idea of the value that way, but you need to be sure of the model first. John Spangler

# 12427 - Smith Carbine Manual
2/10/2007
Will

Been looking every where for Civil War Smith Carbine Manual (manufacturer or military), any ideas?

Answer:
Will- As far as I know there never were any manuals, or even broadsheet instructions made for these. The Smith is probably one of the most simple and intuitive guns ever made so they probably did not think any were necessary. John Spangler

# 11900 - byf P.38
2/10/2007
Idus

*LEFT SIDE = cursive i following serial # on slide bar and above trigger P.38 followed by 43 under byf on the slide bar 3line mark above 135 on trigger guard *RIGHT SIDE=3line mark above 135 stamped on slide bar twice *FRONT BARREL PLATE=serial # above the numeral l What is the make and origin of this gun? Since there is no eagle or swastika emblem, was it accepted for the military? What are guns of this description in very good condition complete with pigskin shoulder holster and 1 magazine with 9 silicon coated bullets currently selling for?

Answer:
Idus, your P.38 was manufactured by Mauser, "byf" is the WW-II German ordnance code that was assigned to Mauser-Werke, Oberndorf am Neckar, Germany in February of 1941 and "43" is the year that the pistol was manufactured (1943).

Your P.38 should also have the serial number stamped on the slide just forward of the safety lever, on the frame above the trigger, and on the front of the barrel group below the round section of the barrel. The last three digits of the serial number should be stamped on the base of the barrel locking block. The letter "l" is the serial number suffix.

P.38, byf/43 and the serial number should be stamped on the left hand side of the slide.

P.38 Should be stamped on the left hand side of the magazine.

The three line mark that you describe is a stylized eagle. Eagle over 135 was the German WW-II Heerswaffenamt inspector's mark on arms produced at Mauser-Werke AG, Oberndorf am Neckar, Germany. It should be stamped twice on the right side of the slide, once on the left side of the frame above the trigger, on the left side of the barrel group, on the right side of the barrel locking block, and on the upper rear of the magazine.

If you look closer I think that you will find an eagle over swastika in a circle stamped on the right side of the slide between the two military acceptance stamps, on the barrel group, and on the barrel locking block. This is a military test proof.

OldGuns.net has been selling nice P.38 pistols in the $650.00 range. Shoulder holsters are not as popular as regular hard shell holsters, they usually go in the $100 range. Marc

# 11890 - M1 With Scope?
2/6/2007
Gary, Montgomery, NY

This M1 I have has an Inland action, an IBM barrel and a Lyman ''MARKSMAN'' scope on it. The serial number on the receiver is 00081. Is this an original configuration for M1 carbines? Thanks for your time... Gary

Answer:
Gary, M1 carbines did not originally come fitted with scopes. Marc

# 11888 - Win '06 With Unusual Sticker
2/6/2007
Daniel

Government issue sticker reads: REGISTERED, OPM. Ft Eustis, Va. NUMBER 493 C.W. LEE (with signature) Major CMP Provost Marshall. I am trying to find a history on this rifle. Can you tell me anything. Year manufactured, and is this rifle worth more with this sticker, it appears to be quite old but very legible. This rifle, in my opinion is in great condition. Thanks Dan

Answer:
Daniel, The Winchester Model 1906 was a simplified version of the earlier Winchester Model 1890, it usually came with a 20 inch round-flat crowned barrel, a straight- wristed buttstock, and a grooved cylindrical slide handle, average weight was 5.1 pounds. The M1906 was manufactured form 1906 to 1932, total production reached approximately 848,000 rifles, your rifle (sn 833816 ) was manufactured at the end of production in 1932. The M1906 was initially offered only in 22 short, but after April 1908, the design was altered so rifles would chamber 22 Short, Long or Long Rifle. The M1906 was also offered in a deluxe 'Expert' version which was manufactured from 1917 to 1925. The Expert version had a pistol grip butt stock and a specially- shaped slide handle. Expert rifles could be ordered in blue, with a nickel-plated receiver and trigger guard, or with all the metal parts nickel-plated. Values for Winchester Model 1906 rifles range from $150 to around $800 depending upon condition and configuration.

The sticker reflects that the rifle was registered with the Fort Eustis, Virginia, Provost Marshall's Office, probably in order to allow the owner to keep the rifle in his quarters, or stored in the unit arms room. The "CMP" is not related to the current "Civilian Marksmanship Program" but only identifies that Major Lee was a Major in the Military Police Corps, the Army branch usually assigned to perform Provost Marshall duties on Army bases. For some collectors the sticker will add some modest value, but others may consider it an unsightly item that degrades value. Marc

# 12426 - Mfr Rle de St. Etienne
2/6/2007
Lisa

I found a gun in my father's collection which I would like more information about. It appears to be an old flint hand gun made out of wood and brass. It has a star and the letter H stamped on it in several places. On the side, above the trigger, it has "Mte Rv de Lt. Etienne" engraved in it. Any assistance you could offer in identifying the gun would be greatly appreciated. Thank You,

Answer:
Lisa- The markings are "Mfr Rle de St. Etienne" the short version of Manufacture Royale de St. Etienne, the French Arsenal at St. Etienne. It probably was made shortly before Napoleon took over when he changed the name to the Imperial Arsenal instead of the Royal Arsenal. There are several different models that would fit your description made for army, navy or police use or even a few other odd type groups. Values vary depending on exact model, condition and any repairs or alterations. In general, there is limited interest in French military arms, so values tend to be modest, probably in the several hundred dollar range for most of them in nice condition. Hope that helps. John Spangler

# 12425 - Steel Case .30 Carbine Ammunition
2/3/2007
Ian

As is often the case this question stems from a heated discussion amongst some gun buff friends and I. The discussion centered on the suitability of the new Wolf steel cased M1 carbine ammo for our carbines. I maintain steel cased .30 carbine ammo was common during WW II and even have an uncle with at least one ammo can of steel cased (I think) .30 Carbine ammo from the early '50's. They, of course, say the Wolf ammo is the first steel cased Carbine ammo produced.

I was looking at your site hoping to find evidence of steel cased Carbine ammo, but unfortunately struck out. So the question is: Was steel cased Carbine ammo produced in the WW II and/or Korean War eras? If so, is the steel cased (I think) ammo my uncle has worth anything more than blasting ammo? If I recall correctly it is LC 52.

Answer:
Ian- The definitive study on U.S. Military small Arms Ammunition, Volume 2 by Hackley, Woodin & Scranton has the following on WW2 steel cased carbine ammunition, which is worth quoting. Besides the period they discuss, there was a lot of work with steel-cased ammo around 1952-56 when it reached significant production at Frankford Arsenal.

QUOTE
In 1943, an Evansville Ordnance Plant recommendation to produce the Cal. .30 Carbine cartridge with steel case was approved and by May of that year Evansville had produced some handmade sample steel cases, using the same finish as the Cal. .45 steel case production. Experimental fabrication of steel-cased carbine ammunition had already taken place at the other contract plants as early as 1942. In fact, Kings Mills Ordnance Plant had produced about 95,000 steel-cased .30 Carbine Ball Ml cartridges during December 1942, but was forced to continue with brass case production because of steel manufacturing problems. Early in 1943 all .30 Carbine steel case development was transferred from Kings Mills to Lake City. Western Cartridge Co. concentrated their steel case development on a nickel-plated finish during the 1942-1943 period; the first lot of 2,000 rounds was completed during July 1942. Steel-cased cartridges examined have included the following: E C 43 (zinc-cronak finish), P C 42 (zinc-cronak finish), WCC 42 (nickel- and copper-plated and zinc-treated finishes), wee 43 (lead-plated, zinc-cronak and lacquered), and W.R.A. 42 (zinc-cronak and copper-plated finishes). During August 1943 the Office of the Chief of Ordnance ordered Lake City Ordnance Plant to convert from brass- to steel-cased carbine production as soon as possible because of a copper shortage. By November the shortage had eased enough to allow reconversion of these lines back to brass.

The pilot lot of Evansville steel-case production was completed in September 1943 (Lot E-S-25607- X) and was forwarded to Aberdeen Proving Ground for comparison tests with brass-cased ammunition. It was subjected to a complete functioning test in which 24,000 rounds of steel-cased ammunition were expended. The total malfunctions and case casualties compared very favorably with the control brass-cased cartridges. In November 1943 the Ordnance Committee recommended that steel-cased carbine ammunition be subjected to complete service board tests. The results of these tests prompted the Chief of Army Ground Forces to conclude that steel cases were generally acceptable; however, it was recommended that carbine ammunition be assembled with brass cases so long as brass was available. The U.S. Marine Corps expended 500,000 rounds of Evansville steel-cased carbine ammunition in training and concluded it was a satisfactory substitute for brass-cased rounds. On October 11, 1945, the Ordnance Committee approved the issue of steel-cased carbine ball cartridges for training use. END QUOTE
Hope that helps. John Spangler

# 12424 - Inmate Missing From Asylum
2/3/2007
Anonymous

I was wondering what the value is on my two rifles: one a 1917 and the other 1921? What do you think they would be worth if I should decide to sell them?

Answer:
We [almost] always try to be polite and helpful, even with barely intelligible questions. However, in lieu of insulting the parentage, intelligence, age and manners we simply decline to respond to the above, even though they managed to spell, punctuate and capitalize appropriately. Note that there is no please or thank you for any info we could provide. They do not provide the faintest clue as to the make or model of the rifles, or even the nationality. Caliber and type of action can be anything from a Daisy BB gun to who knows what high grade custom gun. Condition is open to the wildest speculation as to pristine factory new or totally trashed sporterized rusty junk that Bubba threw away. In the future we will be happy to discuss values with people like this. They can call us, but only on a certain day of the week at certain hours, designated as "stupid question time." After providing their credit card info and agreeing to a $5.00 per minute charge, we will be glad to try to elicit enough details to provide an estimated value. Except for a few ungrateful idiots like this, we really do enjoy the collector arms business. John Spangler

# 11872 - Nazi HP
2/3/2007
Dennis

Real small on slide W8A140 with eagle above it, another eagle on slide, more 2 more tiny eagles stamped, dark brown checkered grip. What is the origin of this gun, and how much is it worth, and what type is it? I received 2 clips with it.

Answer:
Dennis, if you give a close examination to the markings on your pistol, you should find that they read "WaA140" not "W8A140". Eagle over WaA140 is a late war German WW-II Heerswaffenamt inspector's mark that was used on arms produced at Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre, Herstal, Belgium in 1944. These markings indicate that you have what collectors call a 3rd variation FN M1935 (Browning High Power) that was manufactured in WWII Belgium under Nazi control.

The High Power pistol was designed by John Moses Browning and manufactured by Fabrique Nationale (FN) in Herstal, Belgium, it was the last pistol that John M. Browning designed before his death in 1926. The Belgians were first armed forces to adopt the High Power as an official sidearm, in 1935 but before 1940 contracts were also filled for the armed forces of several countries including Belgium, China, Peru, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Sweden and France. The High Power was eventually adopted by the armies of 68 countries, and was used by both the Germans and the Canadians during World War II.

After the FN plant was seized by the Germans in May of 1940 High Power production was earmarked for the German military. The first several thousand pistols were made up from captured parts and had a high polish finish, a shoulder stock slot cut into the rear grip strap and tangent rear sight. To speed production, the Germans eliminated the shoulder stock slot and then the tangent sight at about serial number 145000. As production continued, the quality of finish was reduced to dull blue over a progressively less polished metal. The Germans used three Waffenenamt stamps on High Power pistols:

1. Eagle over WaA613
2. Eagle over WaA103
3. Eagle over WaA140

Third variation pistols like yours were stamped with eagle over WaA140, had fixed 50-meter sights, wood or brown plastic grips and dull military-blue finish over rough machine marks. The approximate serial range for this variation is 145000 to 210000, then 01a to 100000a and finally 01b to 63000b.

Third variation FN M1935 High Power pistols should have the following markings:

Serial number:

• Right side of the slide below the ejection port.
• Last three digits on the upper right side of the frame above the trigger
• Last three digits on the right side of the chamber (barrel).

FABRIQUE NATIONALE D'ARMES DE GUERRE HERSTAL BELGIQUE BROWNING'S PATENT DEPOSE

Slide-left side:

Military acceptance stamp WaA140:

• Left side of the slide above the slide stop
• Upper left side of the frame to the rear of the trigger pin
• Front of the slide below the muzzle
• Left side of the chamber (barrel).

Military test proof eagle over swastika in a circle:

• Left side of the slide above the slide lock notch
• Upper left side of the frame to the rear of the trigger pin
• Right side of the chamber (barrel).

There was no commercial test proof mark.

Values for 3rd variation Nazi Proofed High Power pistols are in the $300 to $900 range depending on condition, let me know if you want to sell. Marc