Click here to go to the question
and answer monthly index.
Click here to go to the question
and answer subject index.
# 14417 -
Which One Should I Keep?
I've inherited a Fabrique Nationale Mauser Karabiner 98k based sporting rifle and a Remington
03-A3 sporting rifle from my father's estate. I don't need both. Which one should I try to sell and
what would be the best way to go about doing that
Answer: John, it is hard for me to tell you which rifle that you should keep
based on the information that I have, and without seeing the rifles. Do you have any sentimental
connection to either rifle? Maybe your father is the one who sporterized one or both of them? If
there is no sentimental attachment, is the workmanship of the modifications better on one of the
rifles than the other? You may want to keep the nicer of the two.
Personally I don’t have much interest in military rifles that have been sporterized. If I owned the
two rifles and if there was no sentimental attachment, I think that I would sell them both. One
good way to sell the rifles is to take them to a local gunshow and show them to some of the
dealers who have similar items on their table. If you hang a for sale sign from the rifles, and carry
them around the show, you will probably get offers from some of the people who are attending
the show in addition to the offers from dealers. You might also try an add in a local newspaper.
We have posted some information about selling options at the following URL:
http://oldguns.net/selling.htm which you may find useful. Good Luck –
Springfield Carbine -
45 -70 -
22 Inches -
Has a Cartouche stamp on left side of stock hard to read. Has a brass firing pin. IS the brass firing
pin correct for a 1873 Springfield because there is no spring around or with the firing pin? What
does the Cartouche stamp mean? Is there record of the cartouche for the Serial Number? Thank
Answer: Gerald- The bronze firing pin was adopted
around 1886 by Springfield to be less likely to rust in place, or to have the tip break off. Your
carbine was one of 14,884 made in 1880, the peak year for trapdoor carbine production, so
obviously the firing pin is a later replacement.
The actual model designation for your carbine is a bit harder to understand. When first adopted,
they were the Model 1873 Carbine. But, in 1877 the wrist of the stock was strengthened, and a
trap added in the butt for cleaning rods, along with a new sight to become the Model 1877
Carbine. Despite further changes in receiver width and sights in 1879, Springfield never changed
the carbine designation until further modifications in 1884 resulted in the Model 1884 Carbine,
but collectors have declared the carbines with the 1879 modifications to be worthy of their own
Model 1879 designation.
The cartouche on the stock would have been script initials SWP, for Master Armorer Samuel W.
Porter, over the date of manufacture, 1880. There I no documented history for this serial number
available in surviving records.
Theo. D.Bartley -
Patent Oct. 5,1880 -
30 Inches -
NO SERIAL NUMBER ON IT -
Theo. D. Bartley's Patent Oct. 5, 1880 is marked on the left side of the gun and Theo.D.Bartleys is
marked on the top of the octagonal barrel, end piece on fore-grip possibly silver, stock and grip
American walnut, it is a single shot breech loader with rolling block What is it
Answer: Jeff- Theodore D. Bartley made guns in
Dresden, NY, circa 1871-1880 according to Frank Sellers “American Gunsmiths.”
A genealogical site includes a photo of Bartley’s home in Dresden (which is the town in
Washington County, not the Yates County Dresden), about 80 miles north east of Albany, right on
the Vermont border.
“This is the home built and occupied by Theodore Bartley…. Theodore was a captain on a boat
that traveled on the Champlain and Erie canals, the Hudson River, and Lake Champlain. He
would haul various types of cargo to and from New York City, Montreal and points along the way.
Recently a book has been has been published based upon his journals written during the time
period that he made these journeys. It is entitled "Life on a Canal Boat: the Journals of Theodore
D. Bartley, 1861-1889." Edited by Russell P. Bellico and transcribed by my cousin-in-law,
The November 27, 1880 “Scientific American” reported:
“An improvement in breech loading firearms has been patented by Mr. Theodore D Bartley of
Dresden Center NY The invention consists in a novel construction and arrangement of the breech
block and the hammer whereby provision is made for depressing the breech block by means of a
spring and for elevating it by the motion of the hammer.”
It would be great to read Bartley’s book and find out more about his life on the canal boats.
As to the question of value, the gun is worth whatever a willing buyer and seller might agree on.
Ones with no imagination, or appreciation of history may look on it as nearly worthless old scrap
iron. Others with a greater appreciation of the inventor’s interesting life history may decide that it
is worth a great deal more. A family member may even want to pay a premium to return
something from previous generations to be cherished by current members.
Interesting gun, and fun to research this one!
S8210 and it has numbers lined out would like to find what it is worth and all numbers match and
no mods have been done
Answer: Steve, Mosin Nagant rifles
usually sell in the $250 or less range unless there is something special about them. We usually
have some listed in our catalog, for pricing, try comparing yours with the ones that we are selling.
# 14416 -
Sawed Off 22
HSB&Co. REV-O-NOC -
Sawed Off -
Don't Know -
K 289 -
The number 1822 is located just below the name REV-O-NOC. The number K 289 is located just
beside the trigger. Both the barrel and the stock has been sawed off. The barrel is about 7 inches
long and sticks out about 1 inch from the grip wood. It has a trigger guard that lowers and opens
the barrel for loading a single shot. My mother is almost 90 and she said it looked old when she
got it. It got to her sawed off and she used it for shooting rabbits. My question is does this gun
have any value other than sentimental value. I would love to know the guns history.
Answer: This is one of the “Boys Rifle” type guns that was popular circa 1900-
1940. HS&B was located in Chicago and was a major wholesaler of hardware throughout the
U.S. from 1882 until they were sold off in 1962 mainly for the use of their “True-Value” brand
name. There is not allot of collector interest in store brand guns, we recently sold a HSB&Co.
REV-O-NOC .410 shotgun for $100 in our big Christmas gun sale, this last Christmas season.
The fact that your .22 has been cut down is cause for concern. The National Firearms Act passed
in 1934 basically outlawed machine guns and sawed off shotguns/rifles.
People who had them were required to register them with the Treasury Department. The Gun
Control Act of 1968 had a whole bunch of requirements concerning gun sales, and also included
an “Amnesty Period” for people who had not previously registered their machine gun or sawed off
shotgun/rifle to do so without any penalty. That Amnesty Period expired in 1968, and there has
never been another, and it is highly unlikely that there will ever be another.
Sawed off ("short barreled") rifles are any rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches, with an
overall length of less than 26 inches. Possession of an unregistered machine gun or sawed off
rifle/shotgun is a federal felony with big hard time sentences and hefty fines (something like 10
years and/or $10,000 fine). BATF prosecutes a lot of these cases, even if the owner is not using
the gun in holdups or anything. I would recommend that you contact your closest BATF office
(blue pages, US Govt., Treasury Dept., BATF) and tell them that you inherited this item, and want
to turn it in for destruction.
# 14243 -
Gary, Menomonie, Wi
I have many sheets of gun specifications. Are they worth anything? A few examples: 1852
Poole's specifications, 1834 Manton's specifications, 1776 Ferguson's specifications, 1839
Answer: Gary- I am not quite sure
what you are referring to. I think what you have might be the patent drawing associated with
some of the makers you list. I would almost be wiling to be that they are loose plates or
illustrations that were reprinted to accompany the important reference book: ILLUSTRATED
BRITISH FIREARMS PATENTS 1714-1853, compiled & edited by two arms collecting giants,
Stephen Grancsay and Merrill Lindsay, and published by the Winchester Press in 1969. The full
set of plates to accompany the book has value as reference material, but I am not sure what
individual plates might bring unless you get the guy who collects that particular item.
If you have something else, the value may be higher than reprinted copies, but selling will be just
# 14241 -
Civil War Musket “Cross Engraved On The Stock”
Teresa Georgetown Texas
Stamped 1864 -
Cross engraved on stock. We came across this rifle and need to know what the cross on the stock
means? We know its civil war but have no idea what the cross means. Please advise. THANKS.
Answer: Teresa- It is hard to be certain of the reason
that the cross marking appears on your musket stock. There are several possible explanations, and
you are free to pick the one you like best, or make up your own.
a. A soldier named Xavier carved his initial on the stock and you think it is a cross instead of an
b. Upon coming under fire, a soldier suddenly discovered an instant conversion to devout
Christianity, and to confirm his commitment to his new found faith, he carved a cross in the stock.
c. More likely explanations would be based on the fact that several Civil War Army Corps used
some type of cross as the badge or insignia denoting their Corps. At the end of the war, veterans
were allowed to take their guns home with them, and have the cost deducted from their pay.
Some would carve their names, or unit identifying information on them, since it was now their
property and Army rules against such defacements no longer deterred them.
The Fifth Corps used a Maltese Cross (sort of like the German Iron Cross, with the ends wider than
the centers. .
The Sixth Corps also used a cross, but the Greek Cross with everything the same width, like the
modern day Red Cross marking. .
The 19th Corps used another cross, similar to the Maltese Cross of the 5th Corps, but at the center
where the arms crossed, there is a square piece added. .
It is also possible that this was done as a marking applied to arms owned by one of the numerous
veterans groups in the post-Civil War era such as the Grand Army of the Republic, or the Sons of
Veterans, of the Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the United States.
Take your pick. John Spangler
I know it was manufactured in 1956 because of the barrel markings. Is there anything special
about this rifle? Is it a collector or just another old rifle?
Answer: Trevor, the Model 760 Gamemaster Sporting Rifle was manufactured
by the Remington Arms Company from 1952 to 1982. The rifle was a slide action design with
detachable 4 round box magazine. The action was locked by rotating lugs on the bolt into the
barrel extension as the slide ran forward. The Game master had skip-line pressed in checkering on
both the pistol grip buttstock and on the forend. The Gamemaster was renamed '760A' in 1953,
after the introduction of the ADL version. Cambering included 223 Remington, 6mm Remington,
243 Winchester, 257 Roberts, 270 Winchester, 280 Remington, 300 Savage, 30-06, 308
Winchester and 35 Remington.
It has been my experience that slide action hunting rifles are often slow sellers, they are not as
popular as other action types with either shooters or collectors.
# 14403 -
MAB Modele F
Modele F -
22 Cal -
6 7/8'' -
Made in France for W.A.C. Pistolet Automatique MAB Brevete What is the history and what is the
value of the weapon?
Answer: Manufacture d'Armes de
Bayonne (MAB) began business in 1921. From 1940 to 1944 the factory was under German
supervision and control. MAB pistols were produced for German military and police use and were
marked with the usual German acceptance stamps. After the war, production of commercial
pistols was resumed. The MAB model F was introduced in 1950, it was basically the same design
as the earlier Mode B except that it had an open-ended slide which could be fitted with barrels of
lengths varying from 2.65 to 7.25 inches. Target sights of different degrees of quality, accuracy
and complexity could be ordered to suit the purchaser's needs. Model F grips are extremely well
raked, this made the pistol easy to point naturally. The Model F was a first-class target automatic
when fitted with one of the longer barrels available at a reasonable price. There is not allot of
collector interest in MAB pistols, I would expect to see one for sale at a gunshow for under $500.
# 14237 -
Springfield Dated 1856
Andy Bethel Park, PA USA
Dated 1856 -
Not Sure -
Not Sure -
Don't Know -
The lock mechanism has ''Spring'' ''Field'' ''1856'' on three lines behind the hammer, and an
eagle with a ''US'' stamped under it in front of the hammer. The bayonet also has ''US'' stamped
on it. On the barrel near the hammer the is a marking with a ''V'' ''P'' and a small eagle head on
three lines. There is also a marking an inch or so forward with ''A R'' in cursive, with a ''P'' under it.
I'm not sure what the serial number is, but there is also a marking with a four-digit number that
looks to maybe read ''1846'', though it is a little worn out I'd just like to know what model the gun
is, and whether or not it is legit. My grandpa had gotten a hold of this one, and also another
dated to 1861. He has passed away and we don't know where he got them from, but always
treated them as the real deal.
Answer: Andy- Your musket
seems to be a bit odd with the 1856 date. That is unusually late to be a Model 1842 .69 caliber
musket, which would have a very large “trumpet” type upper band and two lower bands with a
sling swivel on the middle one, and the buttplate would be basically flat against he shoulder. It is
an unusually early date to be a .58 caliber Model 1855 rifle musket which would have a
buttplate that is curved to fit the shoulder better, and has three bands, with the upper one being
about ¾ inch wide (like the others), and a small brass or iron tip on the end of the stock. The
other possibilities would be one of the oddball musketoons or carbines, some of which were in
production around 1856, and some of those took bayonets. Springfield did not serial number any
of their guns in that period, so the “1846” is a non-original marking. I seem to recall a script AR
over P marking on something, but am not sure where I saw it. My best guess is that it may be a
French marking, and large numbers of Civil War surplus arms were sold to France circa 1870-71,
and this may have been one of those. Since this came with another 1861 dated musket, I am
inclined to believe that both are indeed original Civil War era arms, but cannot be 100% sure
without seeing some good photos. John Spangler
# 14236 -
Provenance Of Roy Chapman Andrews Mannlicher
Tom, Cashmere, WA, USA
Case is from Schoverling, Daly & Gales I have a 1903 Mannlicher 6.5 mm believed to have been
owned by Roy Chapman Andrews, the inspiration for Indiana Jones. My evidence follows: 1.
RCA stated in one book that the 6.5 Mannlicher was his favorite rifle. I have a picture of him next
to a fallen animal holding a rifle that looks exactly like mine. 2. RCA stated in a book that
Schoverling, Daly & Gales donated all firearms and weapons for an expedition that took place
around 1918. I am supposing they may have donated for future field trips as well. My gun came
in a Schoverling, Daly and Gales leather and canvas case. 3. As per the Mannlicher Society my
gun was manufactured in 1918. 4. The gun was given to my Father by a Friend. Accompanying
the rifle was a letter from the owner stating that he had been given the weapon by a Marine
Corps Officer serving in China. It also claims the Officer had been given the gun by RCA who told
him it was one of his favorites. 5. I have been able to determine that a Marine Lieutenant
named William L. Bales was, in fact, stationed as a member of the Peking Legation during 1928.
He was a linguist, an intelligence officer, and was in charge of the commissary. His immediate
superior was Capt. W.P.T. Hill who traveled with RCA on one of his expeditions as Chief
Topographer. My gun case has a faint inked name ''Lt W. L. Bales.'' 6. After returning home
from his final trip RCA mentioned in a book that he had given his favorite Mannlicher to his Son.
That is certainly a counterpart to my research. I temper that with the finding that the on one trip,
the Savage Arms Company gave him ten 250-3000 caliber rifles as a contribution. In addition,
there is a photo in one of his books showing a guide with a shouldered Mannlicher, just like mine.
Any idea on how to proceed? Thanks
Congratulations on your excellent research. I do not know of anything additional that could be
done to document this. Your current research is probably about 90% convincing to anyone
looking for the history of this gun.
Andrews is certainly an interesting and important explorer and adventurer, and his Wikipedia
biography ( http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Chapman_Andrews ) is exciting to read. However, the
final section notes that while allegedly he served as the inspiration for the “Indiana Jones”
character, that is open to much debate. As an easily grasped comparison for a man’s background
and adventures that is probably a good starting point, but I think the real value and interest in this
gun stands tall based only on the Chapman connection without any connection to Indiana Jones.
If you are thinking of selling, this is one that would probably do well with one of the major auction
houses which frequently gets “celebrity” type items, or members of the Safari Club and folks like
Of course, all the Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles are superb quality guns to start with, so there is a
good solid base of interest just for the gun, and this history just adds to the interest and value.
# 14378 -
Dennis, Marietta, GA
.22 Cal -
.22 Cal -
I'm going crazy trying to find a schematic for this pistol. I think a part is installed wrong as the
pistol won't cock. I'm just not sure how some of the parts go in the frame in relation to other parts.
Do you have any suggestion as to where I could track down a schematic for it?
Answer: Dennis, a quick Google search presented the
following link `The disassembling of the Galesi pistols `
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20italienne/a%20galesi%20503%20504%20gb.htm. This is
supposed to be the `first series, i.e. model 5 and 9`. You can also try Amazon, there are several
firearms exploded diagrams and disassembly books for sale there.
# 14411 -
Beretta 32 Value.
Beth, Panama City, FL
PIETRO BERETTA- GARDONE V.T. Cal. 7.65 PAT, PSF 1956, MADE IN ITALY At first glance,
this small black semi-auto pistol looks as though it reads 1958. Under magnification it has a
symbol with a star inside of a circle, a unknown other symbol followed by another star in a circle,
followed by ''PSF'' and then reads 1956. Can anyone tell me what this pistol is
Answer: Beth - value depends on condition, for this
pistol it can range from about $100 to around $350. Hope this helps.
# 14398 -
K98k Stock Set (Probably)
on the butt plate (inside) there are the markings of - stamped 337, stamped 21, molded either H
with an R below it or an H with a reverse 5 below it. The butt stock has under the plate 337 and
an 8 stamped into it. We only have the wooden stock with the butt plate and barrel clamps on it
with the bayonet mount still attached but no bayonet. Wondering what the value might be. Item
was given to me and very curious as to it's worth.
Answer: Josh, I
can't say for sure but my guess is that you have a K98k stock set. I have several sets like the one
you are describing. Ten or fifteen years ago some of the big firearms wholesale companies were
offering K98k stock sets at five sets for $100 and I bought several from Southern Ohio Guns. Now
that the source seems to have dried up and the sets are less common, I would value them at $250
each. Hope this helps. Marc
# 14235 -
Whitneyville Kennedy Rifle Parts
Pat Norcross Ga.
Whitneyville Kennedy -
Lever Gun -
NOT SURE -
None The hammer spring broke and I need a gunsmith in Georgia or the south who works on
these guns. Thanks
Answer: Pat- The Whitneyville Kennedy
rifles were good guns, and we have answered questions on their history in the past. (Use the
“Search- Q&A” feature in the left menu strip to find them.)
Mechanically, these were not too complicated and any good gunsmith should be able to make
one, or maybe adapt a spring from a Winchester or Marlin. Note we said “good gunsmith” not
“your local guy who messes with Glocks and AR-15 clones.” You need someone who genuinely
likes and understands firearms in general, not just the latest fad. Real gunsmiths can (and do!)
build whatever parts are needed, from scratch if necessary, and have a lot of training and
experience. Consequently, their work is not cheap, but that is the price of getting skilled
craftsman to do stuff instead of Bubba’s brother in law. No one whines when their mechanic
charges $50 per hour to fix broken cars, or when plumbers earn more fixing leaking pipes, or even
the obscene prices charged by lawyers to fix bad marriages Well, please be equally accepting
when dealing a guy who has several years of education and thousands of dollars in specialized
tools, and the knowledge and references to fix a broken gun.
To find someone who works on guns of that era, you might start by asking people who are
involved in Cowboy Action Shooting, or members of SASS and see who they recommend.
Cap and ball, single trigger. 1 Inch across the bore. What age is this rifle, and were was it
Answer: Tony- I do not know who might have made
this. The answer may be buried in Frank Sellers’ excellent book “American Gunsmiths, but there
are 37 pages of maker last names starting with “S” and I just do not have the time or incentive to
read through every one of them to find one with a first name starting with “R” and who might have
had a partner with a “J” name.
From the description of the gun, it sounds typical of those made circa 1850-1870, probably for
target use with that heavy a barrel and only .36 caliber. It could have been from just about any
geographic region, but some photos might narrow that down a bit, although there are fewer
regional characteristics that late compared to the pre-1840 era.
Sorry we cannot do much with this one for you. John
patent 1922 cannot locate any info on manufacturer JAYAR. any information
Answer: Kevin, I could not find any information on
this firearm. My guess is that it is probably one of a huge number made in the late 19th and early
20th centuries and sold through various retail outlets. This type of firearm falls into the category
of "old guns" that no one seems to be interested in as shooters, but collectors do not want them
either. Generally these were basic inexpensive simple guns which sold at modest prices and still
have little interest or value on market today. On the retail market they usually sell in the $25-125
range depending on condition and general appearance for use as a "wall hanger" over a
fireplace. Where there is any family history, we encourage people to keep these old guns for
sentimental value. Please be warned that most of these are not considered safe to shoot.