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# 364 - Shotgun- Interchangeable- Belgium 16 GA
2/27/97
Tom thawley@basec.net

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Dumoulin & Co. "Interchangeable" 16 Ga. Shotgun 30" Unknown Unknown

Double barrel hammer shotgun with "Fine Damascus Belgium" printed on one barrel.

I have been unable to find out any information concerning this shotgun. It is a double barrel with hammers and looks like it has cherry wood. Do you have any information concerning its manufacture or if it is valuable? Thanks, and keep up the interesting work.

Answer:
Tom- Just another one of the zillion inexpensive imported shotguns made circa 1890-1920. "Interchangeable" was probably intended to inspire confidence that replacement parts would be obtained if needed, as most of the guns imported at that time had largely hand-fitted parts. No special collector interest or value, probably in the $50-100 wall hanger range. Cherry wood stock might make good knife handles or fit in fireplace easily, but may just be reddish finish on European walnut... John Spangler


# 366 - Riverside Arms 12 Ga Shotgun
2/27/97
Michael Cleardown@aol.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Riverside Arms Co. Double barrel with hammers 12 gauge Unknown blue Unknown

Number on receiver 5338Number on barrel 5338Number on wood AT67Number on forearm 49718Riverside Arms Co.Chicopee Falls, Mass

Does this gun have any crossover for replacement parts? Can you tell me when this shotgun was made? Can you tell me whom this shotgun was made for?

Answer:
Michael- Riverside Arms Co. was a trade name used by Stevens on some of their lower end products, probably circa 1890-1920. They would be sold through various dealers looking for cheaper guns than the competition carried. Stevens parts might work, but it probably is not worth the effort or money it would take to find them. These old hammer style doubles have little collector interest or monetary value. Hope this helps... John Spangler


# 365 - P-08 Luger Breakdown Directions
2/27/97
eric; pfeifer1@aol.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Semi-auto Pistol P-08 9mm 4 Inch Blue Unknown

many swastikas

Where is a good place to get the breakdown directions. I would like to give the weapon a good cleaning.

Answer:
Eric, I have two books that give breakdown instructions for the P-08. The first book is, The Gun Digest Book of Firearms Assembly/Disassembly, Part 1 Semi Automatic Pistols by J.B. Wood. The second book is, The NRA Guide To Firearms Assembly. Both books have excellent detailed instructions and pictures that show how to disassemble and reassemble a variety of different firearms including the P-08. Both books also have sections that warn of and deal with any special problems that you might encounter. I would advise getting one of these books and reading the pertinent section thoroughly before you try to disassemble your Luger... Marc


# 357 - Remington Mark III Flare Pistol
2/22/97
Mike mmoxley@ix.netcom.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Remington Mark III Unknown 8 Inches Blued no number

Has MARK III on barrel and identifies it as being made by Remington arms corp. in Bridgeport Conn.

The question I have is what exactly is the MARK III? It has wooden grips and appears to have about a 1 inch diameter barrel. I have surmised that it maybe a flare gun but I am not sure. Any information would be appreciated.

Answer:
Mike- Your signal pistol is one of about 20,460 made during WWI for the US government. They were made in Remington's Bridgeport, Conn. plant, not the old Ilion NY factory. These use a 10 Gauge cartridge that looks like a paper case shotgun shell. They were made in several basic varieties of "Signal Lights, Mark II, Very, ___ star" Fill in the blank with red, white, or green. The term "Very" comes from the inventor, Edward Very, who patented the concept in German in 1878. These signal pistols were used primarily for Navy use, but may also have been used ashore, or by aviators. They are neat old items, but not especially valuable. Real nice ones seem to sell in the $75-150 range. Let me know if you decide to sell it, I need a better one in my collection. (The Remington Society of America Journal for 1st quarter 1996 is the best source of information in these.)... John Spangler.


# 355 - Peabody Martini Carbine
2/22/97
David

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Manuf by Mechanical Gun Co. Peabody & Martini Pattern 45 55 ? 20 3/4 inches Unknown no serial #

Medal 1%60.A.L.V.S.DERIV 1885 Imperial Gun CY The stock is stamped Imperial Gun CY 1871 1906

Can you tell me any history on this gun.

Answer:
David- Afraid we cannot help much on this. I can't find a thing on either the Mechanical Gun Co., or the Imperial Gun Co. A chamber cast might allow identification of the caliber, which might help pin down the nationality, but that is a long shot... Sorry. John Spangler


# 334 - Swedish Model 96, Mauser Oberndorf
2/22/97
Robert rcmarotz@eot.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Mauser-Werke Oberndorf 96 6.5x55, ? ? blue Unknown

I have seen this gun before and am very interested in getting one. I am just curious if it comes in any other caliber's and whatever other info you can find on it. Thank you. P.S. The page I have seen a tiny bit of info on is www.mauser-werke.de/index.htm

Answer:
Robert- These are fine guns and a bargain in my opinion. The Model 96 was only made for Sweden, and all in 6.5x55, an excellent caliber. Most were made by various Swedish arsenals under license from Mauser, but some of the very early ones were made at Mauser Werke Oberndorf. Those are desirable collector items, and if made in or before 1898, considered antiques as far as Federal law is concerned... John


# 330 - S&W Schofield Military Usage Info
2/22/97
John jkarshne@pacbell.net

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Smith & Wesson Schofield 1st Model 45 Schofield 7" Blue all 3 digits

Typical Schofield markings.

OK, I know Smith and Wesson via Roy Jenks can give me the information when these pistols were shipped to Springfield Armory. Do you know of anyone maintaining records as to where Springfield would have shipped these three pistols, and would they have any record of when they were received back, after the military discontinued their use. Also, would there be a way of identifying is they were all shipped in one lot. Thanks. John

Answer:
John- A whole bunch of S&W American Model revolvers, including ones close to your numbers (but not those specific numbers) were delivered to Springfield Armory in March 1871. This is from Frank Mallory's four volumes of Springfield Research Service information. Frank is the only one I know of who systematically digs through the government archives records looking for serial number info. Unfortunately, they didn't record everything that ever happened, and much of what was recorded has been lost or destroyed over the last 120 years. Distribution was not as tidy as we might think. Springfield was the starting point where stuff was delivered to government custody, so S&W would get paid. After that it gets messy. Items were shipped to various arsenals/depots, and to individual units, in large lots with nearly consecutive numbers or mixed, depending on whether stuff went in unopened cases, or had been used for something and then stored out of sequence. Once in the field, guns got stolen, lost, or broken, and transferred to other units. Seldom would guns be returned all the way to Springfield, except as part of a large overhaul or modernization effort. When finally considered obsolete, or scrap, they could be sold off at many different locations. They just didn't seem to care that us crazy collectors would want to know this a century later. Maybe Frank has learned some more, so contact him (Frank_Mallory@srs.blkcat.com) and at least thank him for the great job he has done making as much info available as he has. Now you understand why there is so much confusion and misinformation floating around about "Custer guns". Some things we will just never be able to document... John Spangler


# 362 - Buy A Refurbished Broomhandle?
2/19/97
Bill Snyder

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Mauser 1896 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

I've recently become interested in getting a Broomhandle pistol, but I don't know enough about them to feel comfortable about buying one. I want something I can hang on the wall, but also shoots well. I'm not a collector and I'm more concerned about how well it shoots. Are replica's as good or better than originals? I prefer a gun that uses clips, and I'm also interested in the stocks-holsters that go with the guns.

Answer:
Bill, if you are not a collector, and you just want a 96 Mauser to shoot, a refurbished pistol would probably be a good choice for you. Due to the use of corrosive ammunition, it is very hard to find an original 96 Mauser with a good bore. An original 96 Mauser with a good bore and an original shoulder stock could easily sell for $1500.00 to $2000.00 dollars. Most refurbished 96 Mausers have new relined barrels, or have been re-bored to 9mm. I like the refurbished Broomhandles that have been re-bored to 9mm best because they do not show any solder joint lines, and also because 9mm is cheaper and easier to find than 7.63 Mauser ammo is. Before you purchase a refurbished 96 Mauser make sure to have a competent gunsmith check it out for you. There are adds advertising Chinese reproduction 96 Mauser holster/shoulder stocks in the Shotgun News form time to time for $100.00 to $125.00 dollars... Marc


# 361 - 8mm Nambu Ammo
2/19/97
Dave dtowers743@aol.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Nambu 8mm Nambu 8mm Nambu Unknown Unknown Unknown

My WWII VET Uncle recently passed away and left me his battlefield pick up Nambu pistol. I would like to shoot it but have no ammo. Is there anyone selling 8mm Nambu ammo some told me federal was but have unable to locate any. Is there a way to reload The 8mm Nambu? What bullet diameter currently made will work? does anyone sell brass.

Answer:
Dave, original Nambu ammunition is scarce and expensive, I have seen it selling for as high as $3.00 or more a round at gun shows. Original Nambu casings are difficult to reload because they use the berdan primer system. Ammunition Specialists 215W Hannum Carterville, MO 64835 (417) 673-2015, specialize in reloading many obsolete and hard to find calibers, they use boxer primed cases so you can reload them after they have been fired. Ammunition Specialists also sells bullets, and will probably supply you with reloading data. Another place to try is The Old Western Scrounger on our links page. Make sure to have your Nambu checked out for safety by a competent gunsmith before you fire it... Marc


# 358 - Nickel Plated Walther PP
2/19/97
LLEFFERTS@aol.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Walther PP .32 3 7/8" Nickel 288XXX P

Could I have some information on the following Walther PP: .32caliber-nickel plated, serial number 288XXX P, plastic grips with Walther Banner, NO Walther banner or other identification on slide, ejection port on right side, there may have been a lanyard ring at base of grip, small proofmark just under and in ejection port--appears to be an eagle (wings spread)over a capital "N"--the spread of the wings is about 5 to 6 times the width of the "N". By the way, the "N" and eagle would be upright only if the pistol were pointed straight up. Any help would be appreciated as we have been trying to get some history on this pistol for some time. Thanks.

Answer:
LLEFFERTS@aol.com, the Eagle N stamping that you describe is a Nazi commercial proof. Eagle N proofs were stamped on Walther PP's manufactured from 1940 to 1945. Walther PP's produced prior to 1940 are stamped with a Crown N proof. Eagle N proofs should be stamped on the right side of the slide under the ejection port , on the right side of the chamber, and also on the right side of the barrel near the muzzle. Walther PP's in the 288XXX P serial number range should have the Walther Banner and legend stamped on the left hand side of the slide. A serial number that matches the one stamped on the frame should be stamped on the right hand side of the slide or the last 3 digits of the serial number should be scribed on the inside of the slide. Walther PP's with original factory nickel finish are extremely rare. After WWII the French added a lanyard ring to some Walther PP pistols. The nickel plating, absence of some standard markings and the lanyard ring all lead me to believe that your Walther PP has been refinished... Marc


# 353 - Savage Model 99F
2/19/97
Chris csmith@netusa1.net

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Savage 99F .300 27" Blued 779913

The only markings found were- SP with a circle around it.

I would just like to know some general information on this gun i.e.when it was made, how many were made, etc. Anything would be muchappreciated! Thanks!

Answer:
Chris, well over one million Model 1899 Savages have been manufactured since production started in 1899. Production of your model (the 99F) was discontinued in 1970. The original Savage model 1899 was an improvement of the model 1895. Savage has offered many variations of the model 99 over the years in many different calibers, including a takedown version that came with a .410 GA shotgun barrel. My references list over 35 different types and models, of 1899 Savage and I seem to always be running into a new variation that isn't listed in my books. Values for Savage Model 99's can range from under $100.00 to over $40000.00 dollars depending on condition type and rarity. My records indicate that your Model 99F was manufactured in 1940. If you want more information about the Model 99 Savage, there is a book "The Ninety Nine" by D.P. Murray which tells all about this model... Marc


# 352 - Model 1917 Enfield Rifle Info
2/19/97
chuck

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Eddystone, Remington,winchester US M1917 Rifle .30-06 Unknown Blue Unknown

Having some experience in restoring and collecting M1 rifles and carbines I would like to become better informed about what are the correct parts for restoring theM1917. The examples seen over the years are generally mixmasters and arsenal re-builds. Skennerton's "The US Enfield" is almost worthless for restoration info. The only other resource seem to be J.C. Harrison's "Collecting the P-17...". Isthis book worth the money for info regarding restoration (E,R,W markings on parts, etc.)?What I really need is a Scott Duff book on the subject like his works on the M1Garand. Again, I would appreciate any help on this request.

Answer:
Chuck- Glad you enjoy Scott Duff's M1 books. He has done a fine job, and deserves a lot of credit (and thanks) for them. I was talking with him today (He is using my Collection Inventory Starter Kit for all the guns in his collection; and I have sold him several rifles for his collection.) Anyway there is no good book on the M1917s right now. Skennerton is good on the history, but weak on details of the US model. Harrison's books look nice and have a lot of information, unfortunately too much of it incorrect and unsubstantiated. I feel I wasted my money on them. Nick Ferris who did the book on Rock Island M1903s may do one on M1917s. At least I encouraged him to do so when I saw him in Denver last week. Lacking good books, here's what I have learned to look for: (a) Nearly every part is marked with E (Eddystone) R (Remington) or W (Winchester). locations are different (upper band E on side, W on bottom of bayonet lug and R on rear of stacking swivel screw lug). Tear a couple of rifles apart and you will learn where to look. (b) All M1917s were originally finished blue, and most were overhauled after WW1 and parkerized. Many were rebuilt in WW2 (mostly for foreign aid vice US troop issue) using HS (High Standard) or JA (Johnson Automatics) barrels. As with M1s, rebuilds or restorations are less desirable than all original and matching stuff. Serial numbers were not marked on bolts in US service, but were in many British Commonwealth nations. If "bolt numbers match" that is an alarm that it is probably an import. Many pre 1968 imports were unmodified, and had red bands (indicating .30-06 ammo vice .303) and are fairly collectable. Recent imports have ranged from very nice to junk. (c) Watch headspace, I have seen a majority of recent imports checked show in excess of 1.950" max. Not sure why, but check with competent gunsmith before shooting one. (d) Early Winchesters (up to about 7,000?) were marked on receiver "W" instead of WINCHESTER. Reportedly produced betting on US approval, and not fully interchangeable with later standardized specifications. Reportedly rejected for use in France for that reason. These are unrecognized "sleepers" in my opinion, even if rebuilt (as both of mine are). (e) Bayonets are getting harder to find, especially Winchesters. Early ones were US overstamped on British markings and had P1907 scabbards altered to M1910 belt hooks. Early production bayonets had no "drain hole" in the pommel, later ones did. Winchester marks are both W and W in circle' Remington dated them both 1917 and 1918, latter scarce. M1917 leather scabbards were also issued for use with M1905 bayonets for M1903 Springfields. (f) Few, if any, changes in details of parts by makers during production period August 1917 to November 1918, just kept making them the same way throughout, having worked out most of the bugs during P1914 production. (g) Eddystone was Remington owned subsidiary near Philadelphia associated with Midvale Steel and Ordnance, and made no small arms stuff except the rifles (specially no bayonets). Supervisor was Conrad Nelson, formerly of Rock Island during their 03 phase. WHen rifles done, plant went to non-military production, mostly railroad stuff. (h) Interesting variant to look for is P14 with screw adjustable elevation on rear sight, little recognized British sniper arm without telescopic sights. (i) Barrel dates have been noted as late as 3-19 from Winchester clean up and probably made mostly as spare parts. Hope this helps... John Spangler


# 348 - Weaver K8 60B Telescope
2/19/97
dustywilson@spintmail.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Weaverscope K 8 60-B Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

This scope is mounted on a modified 308 Springfield my father converted into a .300 H&H mag. It has on the far optical a range ring that can be set from 50 ft to 1000 yds. What I need to know is if when changing this ring does it reset the sight point or is it just a way to show the distance you have sighted the scope in for. Thanks for your help in this. If you cannot answer my question could you please give me a way to get in touch with weaver as they may know.

Answer:
Dusty- I dunno! I could guess, and maybe fool some people, but someone might tell me I am wrong. (Hey, people tell me I'm wrong sometimes when I know I am right, so that doesn't bother me anymore.) I think Weaver is out of business now. Sorry... John Spangler


# 378 - Drilling (Combination Shotgun & Rifle)
2/19/97
greg k

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown German Drilling 16 Gage Top Is Approx 22 Cal Bottom Is 8x56 Approx 24" Bbls Are Blue Reciever Is Complety Engraved Unknown

Has crown n proofs, and all kinds of other proofs under bbl. also has these names schrot krupp, jmnan meffert, th.homnel shein, dortmund suhl,dural hubertus,suhl also has double set triggers one is set

What is it? who made it, and what is it worth. condition is 90-95%who would buy this gun?

Answer:
Greg- Drillings are very personal guns, most were custom made and buyers want something that is exactly what they "want" not what happens to be available. Style, level of engraving, handling characteristics, and appearance are important. However, calibers are more important. Many people dislike 16 gauge guns (beats me, I like them). If in 12 or 20 gauge it might find a home quicker. 8x56JR is okay caliber, better than the commonly found (but ammo hard to find) 9.3x72R or 9.3x74R. I am confused by the mention of a .22 cal top barrel. I have assumed it is two 16 GA barrels over the 8x56JR bbl. If it is a single 16 GA, a .22 and the 8x56JR that is more unusual, and might attract more attention. Or, if it is .22 over two 16 GA over the 8x56JR for a total of four barrels, it is a Vierling ("four barrel gun"). They are very seldom seen and might get more attention. Also the aluminum frame is very rare, most were steel, usually highly engraved. For the right buyer, this is probably in the $1500-2500 range, but most people will think it is neat, but not pull out money to buy. Try selling it at one of the larger gun shows with high-roller dealers and customers. Or, try some of the dealers who specialize in high end shotguns. (Albermarle Fine Arms in Charlottesville VA, Mr. Mahlon Kelly; or Jaqua's Guns in Findlay, OH.) Good luck!... John Spangler


# 331 - Enfield Pattern 1914/US M1917 Rifle In 8mm Mauser
2/17/97
Gary gmoore 9876.aol.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
P-14/M-17 No Manufacturer On Reciever P-14/M-17 7.92x57 Unknown Blued 2XX

Belgian proofs-Liege type--no other proofs or marks

I have never seen this variant before- all others are US-British. Have you observed this?

Answer:
Gary- That's a new one on us! As far as we know the P14s were all in .303 British and the M1917s all in .30-06. However, there is one other less likely possibility, the experimental British Pattern 1913 in .276 caliber. Any one of these could have been the basis for a Belgian conversion to 7.92x57 (8mm Mauser) caliber as sporters. Or, if full stocked, for sale to remote countries for military or police use. Remington used the M1917 action as the basis for the Model 30 sporter and later the Model 720 sporter, and also for the Model 34 military rifle sold to some South American countries. Sorry we can't tell you anything positive on this one... John Spangler and Marc Wade


# 332 - Shotgun- Field Ibbotson Percussion
2/17/97
Ernie Chiles

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Field Ibbotson Co. Percussion Shotgun 12 Ga. 30 Blue could not find one

I have not been able to find any reference in the books I have. About when was this shotgun made and what is a value range?

Answer:
Ernie- Stteerike TWO!! We couldn't find anything either. Sorry. Percussion shotguns usually run in the $50-150 range as wallhangers. John Spangler and Marc Wade


# 347 - Continental Arms Co. .22 Derringer
2/17/97
Matt mguerke@udel.edu

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Continental Arms Co. 5 Shot Derringer ?? .22 1.5" Nickle none

Patented Aug. 28, 1866 Continental Arms Co. Norwich, CT. The barrel and the chamber are one piece and operates like a revolver.

This pistol has been in the family for over 100 years, however we have no real information about it. If you could send any info or point in a direction to find out more it would be helpful. Thanks, matt

Answer:
Matt- That is a fairly rare piece you have. Sometimes called "The Ladies Companion." the design was patented in 1866 by Charles Converse and Samuel Hopkins. "Several hundreds" were made by Bacon Manufacturing Co. but marketed under the Continental name to avoid confusion with a derringer being sold under the Bacon name. Most of these had a blued iron frame, but a few had brass frames and are more valuable. Flayderman's Guide shows a collector value of $325 in NRA antique good condition and $700 in Fine. There are a number of colletors who specialize in derringer type pistols, but you may prefer to keep this item in your family for another hundred years. Please don't shoot it, Modern high velocity ammo is just too hot for these old timers... John Spangler


# 344 - Spanish FR-8 Mauser
2/17/97
Eric - SecAmndAdv

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Spanish Mauser FR-8 .308 18" Unknown Unknown

I have read several good reports of this rifle but have had difficulty locating decent examples available for purchase. What information do you have as to the history of these short rifles? I believe Century Arms Intl. imported some a couple of yrs. ago but they were gobbled up quickly. Where can one purchase an FR-8 now? Were there any accessories that came with the rifle, or were avail. for purchase? By the way, I just happened to surf on in to this site and I'm glad I did. Excellent. I'll be referring some friends to the site as well. Have a nice day.

Answer:
Eric- Thanks for the kind words about the site. Hope you still find it useful even if we disagree with you. Your kind words were the first I have ever heard concerning the FR8 rifles. Everyone else I have talked to considered them dogs, slow sellers, sorta neat looking, but otherwise pretty useless. Apparently intended as "trainers" to be abused by recruits, these were altered to resemble the Spanish assault rifles. (We made dummy M1903A3 rifles (USN Dummy Rifle Mark 5) and M16s made of hard rubber but with real barrel assemblies for drill use.) but I know of no specific accessories associated with them other than a bayonet. When you find a dealer with one, you will make them very happy if you buy it. You might post a want on the Century Arms Traders Den page (see links) to help find one... John Spangler


# 335 - Mauser Model 1871 11mm Rifle
2/17/97
Mike mikerud@blazenet.net

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Mauser 71 11mm Unknown Unknown Unknown

Is this gun a rare model or is it fairly common. I would like to sell it but have no idea of its worth. Can you help me?

Answer:
Mike- There are several variations of the model 1871 Mauser. The true 1871 is a single shot, but the Model 1871/84 used a magazine. These were made in several variations- Infantry rifle with 33 inch barrel; Jaeger rifle with 29 inch barrel; and a Carbine and a short rifle, both with about 20 inch barrels. The infantry rifle is common, the others less so. If in nice condition, we could sell this for you and get you a good price. (We take consignments and normally get 20% of the final selling price. Lots of satisfied customers, so we must be doing it right. Let us know if you want us to handle it for you. We can identify it correctly, price it and advertise it, plus take it to various gun shows where collectors normally shop for this sort of stuff.) Hope this helps... John Spangler and Marc Wade


# 371 - S&W Mod. 1917 Revolver
2/17/97
david, mandu440@aol.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Smith & Wesson 1917 .45 Acp 6"(?) Blue, Still @ 95% Or Better 63XXX

Only pat dates (1901,06,09) S&W D.A.45, Someone, sometime has inlaid a set of airborne wings into the handle. The wings are smaller than the current issue (1970 & later from my experience).

Could you give me an approximate date of manufacture, and just for curiosity's sake any information you may have regarding this particular gun. I do intend to try and trace the ownership to find who the other trooper was who carried it.

Answer:
David, Handguns chambered for 45 ACP were desperately needed once the USA had entered the First World War. To meet wartime demands, both Smith and Wesson and Colt modified their standard large caliber revolvers to chamber 45 ACP. The Smith and Wesson Mod. 1917 was just a Second Model .44 Hand Ejector chambered in .45 ACP, with the cylinder shortened to accept the special half-moon clips required for speedy ejection of spent .45 ACP casings. The first Model Smith and Wesson Model 1917 was completed on September 6 1917. Model 1917 revolvers were serial numbered in a separate sequence beginning with serial number 1. According to production records 163,476 Model 1917's were manufactured during WWI. Smith and Wesson sold some Model 1917's that had been produced during WWI on the commercial market after the war had ended. Commercial sales of wartime production Model 1917's ended after Smith and Wesson had depleted it's wartime production supply on January 5th 1921. After January 5th 1921 Smith and Wesson began producing a commercial model 1917 that was the same as the wartime model except that it had checkered walnut grips... Marc


# 370 - Elden- Royal Scout .22 Rifle
2/16/97
JIM

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Elden Royal Scout 22 Long Unknown Unknown

INDIAN HEAD STAMP. NOT A COMMON ONE. UNLIKE ANY MANUFACTURER EVER SEEN BEFORE

Never have seen anything like this. never heard of manufacturer. was hoping to get more info on this item before buying it. Was hoping somebody could help.

Answer:
Jim- You are making this up, just to see if we try to fool you by coming up with an answer, right? If not, I don't know what to say. My references don't list any Eldens or anyone using "Royal Scout". An Indian head logo was sometimes used by Savage, but you probably are familiar with that. "Royal Service" was used by Shapleigh Hardware on some shotguns, and "Royal Gun Co." was used by the Three-Barrel Gun Co as a trade name, but they are both way out of the .22 line. My guess is that it might not be US made, but could be European, perhaps even Canadian or Australian. You didn't mention any proof marks, but that could help solve the mystery. Maybe one of our visitors can help on this one... John Spangler


# 368 - SKS Headspace Gauges
2/16/97
Tailgunner

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
SKS Chinese 7.62 X 39 20 Inches Blue Unknown

How do I check the head space in an SKS and where do I get the gauges?

Answer:
Tailgunner, I have never tried to check SKS headspace, so I won't be able to give you much advise. Headspace gauges are available from Brownells, and they will probably be willing to give you instruction in their use with an SKS. To get Brownells address, follow the link on our links page... Marc


# 315 - Shotgun- Bridge Gun Co. Black Prince?
2/14/97
Tim timhale@bham.mindspring.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Bridge Gun Co.? Black Prince? 12 Gauge, Shotgun Double Barrel Blue #355

dog and rabbit engraved on left hammer guard Black Prince on right hammer guard has #17 stamped in several locations also letters CC stamped in several locations barrel says Army Steel Belgium has a "LEG" and a Crown shaped logo on barrel

I would just like a little more information about the gun. When was it made, and where can I get parts for it? Who made this gun, and how old is it? Is this a rare gun or pretty common? Thanks for any help.

Answer:
Tim- Bridge Gun Company was a trade name used by Shapleigh Hardware Co of St. Louis, Mo. They started in 1868 and were still in business a few years ago. It is one of many thousand less expensive guns imported from Belgium and sold under various trade names. Most of this was around 1870-1910 and a closer examination of design features might narrow the dates a little. Parts are not available, but would have to be made. Most of these guns are unsafe to shoot with modern ammunition, and there is little collector interest in them. Prices run in the $50-150 range as wallhangers... John Spangler


# 317 - Swiss Schmidt-Rubin 7.5mm Straight Pull Rifle
2/14/97
Allan

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Schmidt-Rubin Unknown 7.5 31 Inches Unknown 412593

Swiss cross about 1/4th inch. In one place a Swiss cross appears inside a shield. The cross/shield is about 1/2 inch.

This rifle has a very unusual bolt which draws straight back, rotating the locking mechanism as one draws back the bolt. The prev. shell ejects and as one advances the bolt straight forward, the next shell chambers and the firing pin is cocked. There is a metal loop one may place one's thumb through to de-cock the firing pin. It appears to be an antique - ? WWI or WWII. The magazine holds seven cartridges plus one in the chamber. There are serial numbers on the magazine, barrel, bolt and stock which all match. My questions are: when was this manufactured? Did it see action? Is it safe to fire? What is it worth? Are there rifle collectors who would be interested in this! Thank you. I enjoy reading your question and answer column. Allan

Answer:
Allan- Your rifle is either the Model 1889 or the Model 1911. The easiest way to tell them apart is the 1889 has a 12 round magazine while the 1911 has a 6 round magazine. The actions are similar, and are not considered to be overly strong. Ammunition is very scarce, so firing it is not very likely. You need to have it checked by a competent gunsmith to determine if it is safe to fire. As the Swiss were strictly neutral for around a hundred years or so, none of these saw any action. There is little collector interest, except in the ones that are still in full military configuration (stock goes up to about 3 inches from end of barrel.) Someone looking for one might pay around $150-200 for a nice example. These were sold by surplus dealers in the 1960s for about $12-15, often with some ammo, or sporterized. They were slow movers even then. Hope this helps... John Spangler


# 324 - Sword- Pettibone Civil War?
2/14/97
jjclark@stratos.net

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Sword Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

pettibone company, cincinnati

I have a Union Army officers saber. Lizard skin handle It has a lot of engraving and three initials on the blade. Pretty good condition, no rust on it a bit of wear on scabbard. What can you tell me about it?

Answer:
JJ- James Pettibone was a clerk in John Boner's military goods store in Cincinnati in 1865. In 1872 he took over the company under his own name, and it continued at various Cincinnati addresses until at least 1897. Therefore I doubt if your sword was used in the Civil War. It may be Civil War pattern, or one of the variations popular with various lodges and fraternal groups in the 1865-1900 period. We would need to see a photo to make a proper identification for you... John Spangler


# 325 - Steven .22 Little Scout Rifle
2/14/97
Norm njohns@iavbbs.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Stevens Little Scout/Little Steve 22 Rin Filre 14 1/2 Blue N/A

Stamped J.Stevens & Arms Co. Chicopee Falls, Mass U.S.A. Little Scout 22 Long Rifle Pat. July 2-07Proff Mark on barrel & receiver of what appears to be the letter I within a circle.

In the past I wrote to you about an "E.L. Clunder" Boys Rifle. I am currently considering purchasing 1 or both of these Stevens 22s.One is marked "Little Scout" which has a normal cast iron receiver. The second is marked "Little Steve" but it's receiver appears to be of formed heavy plate steel. Can you provide me with any information about these 2 Stevens 22 rifles? What price range would you suggest I consider? Thank You, Norm

Answer:
Norman- The Stevens "Little Scout" was made from 1910-1930 according to one source, and 1911-1941 according to another. In NRA antique very good (see link for descriptions) it would be worth about $125. Collectors would have little or no interest in one that was reblued. But, if you want to shoot it, and will feel better with it reblued, no one will stop you (unless Hillary and Janet take it away from you....) Rebluing will cut the value about in half. The one marked "Little Stevey" is not a Stevens product, and is not listed in Jim Perkins "American Boys' Rifles 1890-1945". My first gun was a Stevens Little Scout. I later used it to learn to sand down stocks and remove finish and apply cold blue. Ah, confessions of a misspent youth... John Spangler


# 343 - NASPD Marked Mauser HSC
2/11/97
Rudy R2B2@Webtv.net

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Mauser HSC Pocket Pistol .32 ACP Unknown Parker Unknown

Marked NASPD Gruppenlieter Alpenland (NAZI party leader Alpland)

Although all parts are present, the grips aren't cracked, and the pistol may be workable, the finish is no more than fair with some pitting. How much does the inscription add to the pistol's value?

Answer:
Rudy, NASPD marked Mauser HSC Pistols are extremely rare, values for NASPD marked HSC pistols in Very Good to Excellent condition can range from $1500.00 to $3000.00 dollars. It is a shame that the finish on your HSC is in such poor condition , but even with the ware and pitting that you describe, I would estimate that your HSC would be valued in the $600.00 dollar range... Marc


# 327 - Nickel Plated 1873 Winchester Rifle
2/11/97
Brad cboothma@orednet.org

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Winchester 1873 44/40 24" Nickle 3XXX

Could you give us an approximate value? And, how rare or common is it for a 1873 to be nickel plated?

Answer:
Brad- Your 1873 Winchester is a real early one, made in 1875. It sounds like a standard rifle with the 24 inch barrel. George Madis' "Winchester Book" says that only about one out of every 600 Model 1873s was plated, so that finish is not common. However, many more were later plated by their owners, and the value would be much less for these than for factory original specimens. A "factory letter" (from the Winchester Museum in Cody WY at about $50.00) would be needed to confirm your gun was originally plated. Condition is very important, especially with plated guns which can get ugly in a hurry. Flayderman's Guide indicates a value of $1,000 for an early M1873 Winchester in NRA good condition, and $3,500 in NRA antique Fine condition. Collectors would probably pay a bit more for one with original plating... Jon Spangler


# 313 - Savage Model 775
2/11/97
Tom (richards@world2u.com)

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Savage 775 12 Gauge 30" Blue 249XXX

Recently acquired this shotgun. It's in fair condition. Need to know if there are any published problems due to the lightweight alloy receiver (cracking etc.), where, if anywhere, can I get parts and an assembly drawing for it, what kind of alloy was used in the receiver, what kind of process is needed to reblue, and an approximate value to the gun. Thanks! Tom

Answer:
Tom , the Savage Model 775 Lightweight is similar to the model 755 standard except that instead of a steel receiver, it has a light weight alloy receiver. The 775 Lightweight was manufactured from 1950 to 1965. To locate parts for your 775 Lightweight, a good place to look would be our links page ( follow the gun parts link). Values for the 775 Lightweight are about the same as they are for the 755 Standard, in the 100.00 dollar range. Costs for refinishing your 775 would probably amount to more than the firearm is worth. Since 775's have little or no collector value you might try painting your 775's receiver black with a good quality paint that is made for coating aluminum. If you have problems locating the right kind of paint for your receiver, I believe that Brownells gunsmithing catalog offers paint that is made for aluminum receives. You can find a Brownells link and their address on our links page... Marc


# 349 - Savage Model 755
2/11/97
Jim(JFish0000@aol.com)

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Savage 755 12 Ga. Shotgun Blue Unknown Unknown

I'm trying to find out when this shotgun was manufactured. If there is any info that anyone would have I would love to know about it. Also would like to know if possible the value in a fair to good condition. Thanks Jim

Answer:
Jim, the Savage Model 755 Semi-Automatic shotgun has a rounded receiver and was equipped with a checkered pistol grip stock. Various chokes were offered and 26, 28 or 30 inch barrel lengths were available. The Model 755 was manufactured in 12 and 16 gage between 1949 and 1958. Values for a Savage 755 in fair to good condition would be in the $100.00 dollar range... Marc


# 351 - 1911 .45 ACP Shipping Date
2/11/97
chuck

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Colt M1911 Us Army .45acp Unknown Original Blue 502XXX

Pistol appears to be original in all respects.

I would like to know when this pistol was shipped in 1918. This info is available in Charles Clausen's book on the .45 auto, but I don't have access to the book. I would greatly appreciate your help.

Answer:
Chuck, according William H.D. Goddard's book, The Government Models, your Colt 1911 was among a group of 438 pistols shipped on December 14, 1918 to the camp ordnance officer at Camp Henry J Jones, Douglas, AZ... Marc


# 354 - Shotgun- William Moore & Co.
2/11/97
David

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Wm Moore & Co. Unknown 8 Gauge Double barrel 35 1/2 inches Unknown no serial number

Barrel is marked Belgium Twist

Did this shot gun come from England and how common are they.Do they have any value.

Answer:
David- This company operated in London from 1854 to 1872, and apparently did a lot of export business. (I think I sold a gun by them last year). 8 gauge doubles are BIG guns, as you have probably figured out. Great for waterfowling from a boat or a fixed location, but not something you would want to lug around chasing upland game. Very impressive old guns, but easily broken due to their large size and weight. A little more desirable than the usual old shotgun, probably in the $150-500 range depending on condition... John Spangler


# 329 - Military Walther PP
2/8/97
Chris Graytech@pacbell.net

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Walther ? 7.65 Mm Unknown Blue 342XXXP

On right side of gun in three separate locations on just above grip second on barrel hidden by slide if closed third on barrel hidden if slide is open, all of these are the nazi bird holding an N. On the left side of the gun in two locations one just above grip second on slide are what appear to be three bars length shorter from top to bottom with numbers/letters stamped below in arcing pattern look like WaA359. to describe the numbers/letters the W is large and jagged the next letter is a small "a" the next letter is like a arrowhead assuming capitol A and the numbers are clearly numbers 359.

My father inherited this gun from his uncle who picked it up in Germany during WWII. We were wondering if this gun has any collectors value and or can we locate who it was issued to in the German Army. Also what do the markings represent, and do they make the gun more valuable.

Answer:
Chris, from the P at the end of your serial number, I can tell that you have a Walther model PP. The Walther PP was introduced for commercial sales in 1929, PP was an abbreviation of Polizei Pistole (police pistol). Aprox. 200,000 Walther PP's were produced in Germany for the Police, Military and NSDAP between 1935 and 1945. The Bird over the letter N markings that you describe are commercial test proofs, the other markings (stylized bird over WaA359) are military acceptance marks. WaA359 is the German WW-II Heerswaffenamt inspector's mark on arms manufactured at Walther, ZellaúMehlis, Germany. The most that I can tell you about who your PP was issued to is that it was a military pistol and it was not issued to the Police or NSDAP because of the military acceptance marks. The markings on your PP make it one of the least valuable types of Walther PP's. Values for your PP would fall in the $200.00 to $400.00 dollar range depending on condition... Marc


# 326 - Swedish "Tre Kroner" .22 Target Rifle
2/2/97
Glenn gsheff@erols.com or gsheff@juno.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Tre Kroner Riflen (pre WW11) Match Type Target Rifle 22 Caliber 30.75" Brown Finish 2XX

"TRE KRONER RIFLEN" has three crowns imprinted between kroner and riflenon each side of the receiver. 291 (serial no.?) is stamped on top ofreceiver. No other markings are evident.

What is history and origin? What is value if any? Is it worth restoring? It is still in firing condition.

Answer:
Glenn- All I can tell you is that "three crowns" are the Swedish national emblem (used as insignia on their military aircraft). The 30 inch barrel is typical of the 1890-1920 period. If full stocked, this could be a military trainer related to the M1896 Mauser. All that is pretty speculative, and I have no idea what these might be worth. There is a strong interest in European military arms, but oddball target arms don't seem to have many fans. But, somebody might have been looking for one of these for years, and willing to pay a gazillion dollars... John Spangler


# 316 - Colt 1911 Value
2/1/97
Moe moermtc@aol.com

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Colt 1911 Military Semi Automatic Pistol .45 Standard Standard SN:251XXX

I have searched through your site and should have started here I guess. I recently was given my fathers 45 caliber pistol which he brought home with him from the Army in 1945. I was looking for a handgun that I could use and happened to mention the .45 to the salesman at a local gunshop. They looked it over and told me it was all original and although it was well used, it was in pretty good shape. I looked at the NRA ratings in your site and would suggest that it is in the Very Good to Fine class. It has a Heiser holster which surprised the gunsmith, and he told me it was not US Military but was modified for use with a web belt. I also have two clips and a box of cartridges, definitely military, with the following markings. 50 Cartridges Pistol Ball Steelcase Ammunition Calibur .45 M1911Ammunition Lot E.C.Evansville Ordinance Plant(Stamped on the box is the following number S24935X6) I may be interested in selling or trading the package or individual items, but don't know what value they would have . Could you give me a guess? The gun shop offered to trade me for a new Ruger 357 magnum revolver.$440 list price. That was for the pistol and one clip. They haven't seen the holster or the other cartridges, so I don't know if they would have any interest in them. Thanks for any help you can give me.

Answer:
Moe, according to my records, your Colt Model 1911 was made in 1918 and shipped to the Commanding Officer of Springfield Armory on March 12, of that same year. Your 1911's type of finish is a very important factor in determining it's value. ''Standard'' finish for a Government issue .45 Auto in the year that your father obtained it (1945), would have been a flat gray or greenish finish which is called Parkerization. Original finish on a Colt 1911 made in 1918 would have been a shiny dark blue. Many Government issue 1911 Colt .45 pistols were reworked and Parkerized. If your 1911 has been Parkerized then the value is greatly reduced, it would fall in the $300.00 range. If your 1911has it's original dark blue finish it could be worth from $375.00 to over $1500.00 depending on condition. If you trade your 1911 for a Ruger .357, there is a chance that you could be loosing money. I would advise that you have your 1911 appraised before you make any trades. If you can not find someone in your area to appraise your 1911, we would be happy to help but we would need a good picture and more information. You can find information about how to get an appraisal on our Appraisals page... Marc


# 319 - E Whitney Flintlock musket
2/1/97

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Whitney Flintlock Unknown Unknown Bare Metal Unknown

I have a Whitney Flintlock in good condition. The markings are as follows: On the sidelock it as U.S., with a crossed arrow and wheat sheaf. Towards the rear of the lock is printed.. New Haven, and the date of 1837 is barely legible (you must hold the gun in such a way to see the date imprint). On the barrel tang is the date 1835, which is very legible. The initials N.W.P. are stamped on the top of the barrel. I believe this is the 2nd contract of 1822. The gun has no brown finish, but rather bare metal. Very few pits and barely no rust. The stock has a few dents here and there but otherwise, is in good shape. It appears that the flash hole is clear and that the gun could be fired. Do you have any idea what this gun is worth??

Answer:
Sir- You have an very desirable collectors piece. This was made by Eli Whitney Junior, not his dad who invented the cotton gin and is [erroneously] credited with invention of interchangeable parts. The slight mismatch of barrel and lock date will turn off some collectors, but it sounds like it is otherwise all original and in good condition. "Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Arms and Their Values" shows a value of $950 in good condition, and $2250 in fine. (See condition definitions at link). These sell very nicely in the eastern US but are slow movers in the West where if it ain't Colt or Winchester, it ain't..... If you are a collector, you have a keeper. If not a collector, then we could find a good home for it with one of our customers. Drop us a line if you want to sell it... John Spangler.


# 318 - Looking Glass 6.35mm Pistol
2/1/97
Philip Lawson

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Looking Glass Unknown 6.35 Unknown Unknown Unknown

I have a small handgun that I don't know the make of. It has what appears to be a worn description of a bucking horse on the back end of the slide above the handle. That same bucking horse is on the frame of the gun below the back part of the slide. The letter "B" with an asterisk directly above it is in front of the apparent horse. Also it has ""looking glass"" written on the side of the slide. It is a 6.35 caliber automatic. It has no make written on it. It has "6.35 caliber" written on the screw-on grips. I was wondering if you might know who made this gun?

Answer:
Philip- Your "Looking Glass" (that is the brand name) is one of dozens of very similar copies of the Browning .25 automatic. Most were made in Europe, and sometimes country of originn can be determined by the proof marks. I suspect Spain or France, but wouldn't bet much on that... John Spangler


# 321 - Japanese Temple Wall Gun
2/1/97
Chris Rush

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Japanese Temple Wall Gun Larger Than A 12 Gauge Slug 25" Blue? Unknown

It's markings are in Japanese has dragon winding it's way along barrel. total length 40" sub trigger, match lock, questions I want to sell it. Do you have any idea what ballpark prices these things go for like ???? to $??? Thanks, any help you could give would be appreciated. Best Respects; Chris Rush

Answer:
Chris- Last time I went near a church, I ended up getting married. So I have not seen too many Temple Wall guns lately. There is a very big interest in antique Japanese arms, and the really nice ones seem to bring some serious money. Common "tourist" matchlocks seem to run around $300 and up. I have a friend who is an expert in older Japanese arms, and has many Japanese customers looking for items like this. If you would provide a photo (Box 711282, Salt Lake City UT 84171) I will get it to him and see what he says. He is a reputable dealer (unlike some out there, be careful!)... John Spangler


# 323 - Collecting Early Japanese (Pre-WW2) Handguns
2/1/97
Pete

Maker Model Caliber Barrel Length Finish Serial Number
Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown

What do you think about collecting early Japanese (Pre-WW2) handguns?

Answer:
Pete- People collect the weirdest stuff. (My wife tells me that when I bring home another Springfield.) Some people collect butterflies, or bowling balls, or tanks, or..... And you think it might be fun to collect Japanese pistols? If you will enjoy it, by all means get started. This is an area where there is a pretty good variety of models, makers, variations, and accessories. Some good reference books are available. There is an organized group of other Japanese collectors- "Banzai!" (we can get address for you). That covers the "fun" part of collecting. If you are considering it as an "investment" that is a little different, and not predictable. Japanese citizens are basically prohibited from owning working firearms, although there is growing interest in deactivated guns, including WW2 items. Most young American collectors can no longer afford to collect the traditional older Colts and Winchesters. Even items which were inexpensive 5-10 years ago are now unaffordable to many. (20th century US military arms, for example.) If I were a beginning collector interested in military arms, I would probably be very attracted to Japanese arms, maybe French, and former Communist block countries, especially Russia. For non-military stuff, maybe the less popular "big" manufacturers- Savage, Stevens, Harrington and Richardson, Ithaca, even Remington. What about replica black powder guns? There must be at least 50 different makers so far of the Colt 1851 and 1860 pistols. If one is fearful that politicians will eventually take away guns (hey- look at England and Australia, they used to be rational societies.) I might lean towards "gun-related" rather than guns themselves. Look at all those neat early telescopic sights and mounting systems; reloading equipment (maybe just hand tools, or bench type), what about gun tools (see Steve Dorsey's book). Bayonets have a sharply focused collector following already. Cartridge collecting is booming- some collect full boxes, others just single rounds, some by caliber, others by maker. I admit that I have been tempted to collect all of these. However, I think I will stick with US military longarms for now. (Well, OK, I do accumulate bayonets, and ammo, and tools, and belts, etc as well, but don't tell my wife.) John Spangler--Serving collectors and students of firearms and military history... John


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This page was last updated 2/27/97 11:55:54 AM