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# 13712 - Trapdoor .45-70 History
3/30/2010
Mike, Herndon, VA

Springfield Trapdoor - M - 884 - .45-70 - 32'' - Other - 547XXX -

Buttstock has a 1 inch high numeral ''9'' and below that is a 1/2 high ''27'' What do the numerals ''9'' and ''27'' on the buttstock mean? I know there was a 9th Infantry in the Spanish-American War.

Answer:
Mike- Most of the trapdoors with markings neatly stamped on the right side of the butt are ones used by various New York militia or national guard units. These are usually a large number denoting the regiment, followed by a smaller number which is some sort of serial or accounting number, either within a regiment or a company. New York seems to have used this system extensively, but most states refrained from adding any extra markings. John Spangler


# 13787 - Import M1 Carbine Values
3/30/2010
Mack, McAllen, TX

Inland - Carbine - .30 - 18 - Blue - 415174 -

Made by Inland Mfg -SC- 5-43. S/N is listed beneath the rear sight and on the stock. Equipped for Bayonet. Underside of Barrel is stamped Davidsons Greensboro NC. The number 5(2?)26 is stamped on metal between rear sight and stock. This rifle is operational and shoots well. What is the approximate value.

Answer:
Mack, value for M1 Carbines depends on many things but the most important factors are maker, condition configuration, original parts and wether or not the carbine has import markings.

Carbines in original configuration with all correct parts, all of the early features and no import markings can bring as much as $2000 or more for some of the rarer makers. Inland is the most common of all of the companies who manufactured M1 Carbines but what really hurts the value of your carbine are the ``Davidsons Greensboro NC`` markings that you mention. These indicate that your carbine is a recent import. Values for this type of carbine are usually in the $500 to $600 range unless condition is especially nice and / or the carbine has all of the early features. Marc


# 13710 - Connecticut Valley Arms (CVA) Black Powder Guns
3/27/2010
Beth, Newark, Oh

Connecticut Valley Arms - Blue - 75681 -

I inherited this gun from my father, I know nothing about guns. It has ''Engaged 16 May 1843'' on it and the manufacturer(?) and a serial number. What is it worth and where should I take it to sell it?

Answer:
Beth- Connecticut Valley Arms is a modern maker of black powder replica guns. Their website is http://www.CVA.com and that would be the best source of info on their products. The date you mention sounds like the date marked on the cylinder scene of the Colt black powder revolvers. These are classified as “antiques” under federal law and there are few restrictions on who can buy or sell them, but some state or local laws may say something different. In Ohio you should be okay. Value is probably very modest. John Spangler


# 13785 - Winchester Value
3/27/2010
Wantagh, NY, NY

Winchester - 1866 Repeating Rifle - 44 - Octagon Not Sure Of Length - Blue - 489755B -

Adjustable sighting How much if any is the monetary value of this rifle?

Answer:
Wantagh, based on the serial number I think you have a Model 1873, not a Model 1866. Your serial number would date to 1895. Depending on the amount of bluing, whether it is a rifle or carbine, whether the gun has been altered with the addition of another type of sights, the condition of the wood, the value could range from many thousand dollars down to $500 or $600. Marc


# 13782 - Try The Remington Manufactured Dates Program
3/23/2010
Jim Harris

Remington - Model 514 - 22 Short, Long, Long Rifle - 29'' - Blue - DOES NOT HAVE ONE -

LUU on barrel When you have 3 Letters LUU Which ones are used for manufacture date? Thank You for your answer, Jim Harris

Answer:
Jim, you should make use of the Remington Manufacture Dates program that we provide. There is a link to it on the OldGuns.net left hand menu bar. If you follow the link, you will see that `` the first letter identifies the month, the other letter(s) identify the year" of manufacture. When I enter the date code that you gave me, I get a result of February 1949 for when your Remington was manufactured. Marc


# 13704 - Golcher Muzzled Loading Rifle.
3/23/2010
Dave - Waterloo, IA

Unknown - Unknown - Unknown - 40 Inches - Rusty - UNKNOWN -

The hammer lock plate has some engraving and letters which are hardly readable they appear to read: GLOCACHER. The first letters are less readable that the last. The muzzleloader has a 40'' octagon (.84'') barrel and the bore measures .406'' using 13/32'' drill. There is a hinged lid at the base of the stock that has to be pried open to reveal a wax compartment. The trigger assembly has two triggers with a rear hand stop. Any information concerning the manufacturer, date and possible value will be appreciated. Thank you.

Answer:
Dave- James Golcher was a circa 1820-1870 maker of locks for sale to gun makers which were then assembled into completed guns virtually anywhere. Golcher started off in England and later moved to the Philadelphia area and eventually made complete rifles under the name “Eagle Rifle Works.” There were several other Golchers and Goulchers (perhaps some of them duplicates but not very adept at spelling) mainly in the Philadelphia area.

The 40 inch barrel and .40 caliber bore would be most common in the earlier periods, perhaps circa 1840-1860, while even smaller bores and shorter barrels would predominate circa 1850-1860s. Most of these rifles in the late percussion period have some collector interest, but relatively modest value, compared to the earlier flintlock long rifles of the “golden age” period where value can be pretty significant. John Spangler


# 13698 - Bacon Single Shot Pistol
3/20/2010
Theo, Indianapolis, IN

Bacon Mfg, Norwich, Conn - Single Shot, Side Break ?? - Can't Tell - 6 '' - Don't Know - 40 -

Can only find the number 40 on the underside of the barrel. No other numbers, and the only stamp says Bacon Mfg Norwich, Conn. The barrel breaks away to the side to load, very unusual. The trigger is in the middle of two stationary pieces of metal, when the hammer is pulled back, the trigger moves forward... What would be the name of the gun? and an approximate mfg year

Answer:
Theo- Thomas K. Bacon was involved in the arms business from the 1840s when he began as a machinist with Ethan Allen (The gun maker, not the “Green Mountain Boys” leader of the same name). He started his own company about 1846 and followed with two others and finally left the business about 1865. His firm continued in business until about 1888 but by that time was mainly making cheap and junky “suicide special” type revolvers.

Your pistol is one of about 2,400 made in the early to mid 1860s. These were all .32 rimfire caliber, and a pretty well made and reliable personal protection gun for the period. The side swinging barrel was used by many makers in the 1860s-1870s although it really was not suitable for later, more powerful cartridges. The “trigger between two pieces of metal on the sides is what collectors call a “spur trigger” and was popular at the time, but obviously offers less safety than a conventional oval trigger guard. John Spangler


# 13779 - Colt 1903 History
3/20/2010
Bob, Canada

Colt - Automatic Pistol - .32 - 3.75/4 Inches - Nickel - 328995 -

Patented Apr 20 1897 Dec 22 1903 Colt's PT.F.A Mfg. Co. Hartford Ct USA Colt Horse Stamped on Left side, 10 stamped on left trigger guard , a z on right. Arrow (with bar at arrow point) at end of and under barrel Gun seems to be in very good condition, A chrome like finish along with Pearl handles, Colt horse symbol inlayed in handle. Every thing original. Interested in any history and possible value.

Answer:
Bob, you have a Colt Model 1903 Hammerless (to distinguish it from the Model 1903 with a hammer) pistol. Yours was made in 1920. The nickel finish, pearl grips with Colt medallions in the grips, were all special order items and add value to the pistol. The Model 1903 was a staple in many gangster movies of the 1930's and 1940's. You can contact Colt and request a letter on your pistol if you want more information. It will cost $100 or more, and will tell to whom the pistol was shipped, and the shipping date. Marc


# 13778 - RMZ Marked PPK
3/16/2010
john, Morrisville, PA

Wathers - PPK - 7.65 Mm - Approx-5'' - Blue - 843019 -

left side of gun-Waffenfabrik Wlather,Zella-Mehlis(THUR)Model PPK Walter's Patent Cal 7.65 MM-- also has RMZ in a circle--right side has a N with a crown over it marked on the slide & right under the slide I have a brown holster that came with it -it was a gift from a friend of my mothers he got it when the allied forces entered Germany--any idea how much it would be worth? Thanks

Answer:
john, the letters should be RZM not RMZ and stand for Reichszeugmeisterei, the Nazi Party purchasing office. These pistols were available to members of the Nazi party. Its presence adds value to the pistol. How much is going to depend on the condition of the pistol. A standard PPK in 100% condition is valued by the Blue Book at $1650. One with RZM markings is valued at $2500, but a PPK with 70% is valued at $300 whether marked with RZM or not.


# 13697 - Low Number So It Must Be Rare…
3/16/2010
Wisconsin

Springfield Armory - 1892 Kraig - 30-40 - 22'' - Blue - 1452 -

Proof markings on stock (''P'') and sans sarif ''P'' in circle. Cartouche on left side of grip is not legible, but outline is present. ''U'' on lower rifle band ''with'' a sling swivel. ''1894 US Springfield Armory 1452'' on left. Has a rifle sling swivel below grip on stock. Metal butt plate has oiler trap (with three holes inside trap). Appears someone cut a dovetail groove on the top of the front sight band and inserted a sight in the dovetail. Overall, the gun appears in in excellent condition and is functional as I have shot it. I think the low serial number would indicate this is a relatively rare gun and would like some help in deterring the value. I probably should not be shooting it? Thank you, Dave

Answer:
Sir- While a low number may be interesting, that alone really does not make a gun especially rare or valuable. In this case, there were nearly a half million Krags made, although that includes both rifles and carbines, and Models 1892, 1896 and 1898 with many more variations in types of sights, and various modifications and combinations as a result of overhaul or repairs.

Your rifle started off as a Model 1892 with a 30 inch barrel, and if unaltered in any way would indeed be rather valuable. However, it was later updated to Model 1896 configuration which cuts the value quite a bit. At a later date your rifle was cut down for use as a sporter, which reduces the value to little more than parts or use as a cheap deer rifle. For guns in this condition the serial number is a curiosity at best, if anyone even cares at all. John Spangler


# 13692 - British 1861 Enfield Type Breechloader
3/12/2010
Travis Martinsburg WV

Enfield - 1861 - 18'' - Blue -

V.R. Markings, Breech Load, One Band I've been researching this rifle for awhile now and have found nothing that matches it. Any information would be helpful-

Answer:
Travis- I am pretty sure you have a “Snider” conversion of the .577 caliber Enfield. These used the existing locks and stock fittings. The barrels were cut off at the breech and a new action attached which has a breechblock that flips open to one side, and can then be pulled back to extract the cartridge from the chamber. The Snider action was the invention of Jacob Snider, an American, and adopted by the British in 1867 to economically convert their obsolete muzzle loaders into breechloaders using a .577 Snider center fire cartridge. The U.S. Army adopted Erskine S. Allin’s “trapdoor” system for the same reason, converting .58 caliber muskets to .58 rimfire, then after lining the barrels to .50-70 centerfire cartridges.

The Sniders were made in several basic models, a long three-band version for infantry use, a shorter two-band version for specialist troops (engineers, artillery, or naval) and a single band very short carbine for cavalry use. I am sure yours is one of the latter. John Spangler


# 13770 - Wartime HSc
3/12/2010
Scott, Metamora, Michigan

Mauser - HSc - Kal. 7.65mm - 6'' - Blue - 910 511 -

German Eagle both sides of trigger housing one side has an ''L'' next to it. It has wood grips. Other stampings are Mauser-Werke A.G.Oberndorf a.N Step father was in the German army. what is the year/value?

Answer:
Scott, your pistol was made sometime between 1941 and 1944. The eagle L marking was applied to pistols made for various German police departments. These pistols are well made, and Mauser continued making them after the end of the war. Depending on the amount of original finish they sell from about $300 up to around $700. Marc


# 13767 - US Revolver Info
3/9/2010
Bob, Zellwood, Fl

US Revolver Co. - Revolver , Short Caliber - .32 Or 38 - 3'' - Blue - UNKNOWN -

This gun has US revolver Co. on the top of the barrel, has US circled on the grip, and the # 68396 on the trigger guard. This has a 3'' barrel, five round revolver, w/a top break This is an old gun and all the numbers or markings can't be read. It looks like the S & W DA, 3rd Model, but the markings aren't the same. Can you tell us what make of gun is. It's been passed down for years. Sure would appreciate any help you could give us.

Answer:
Bob, sorry that I can't tell you that you have a real treasure. Arms made under the U.S. Revolver Co. name were cheaper versions of the Iver Johnson line. U.S. Revolver Co. paralleled the solid frame Iver Johnson Model 1900 and the Hinged Frame Safety Automatic models, but did not have the safety hammer feature, they also had some consequent minor changes in the lockwork and a lesser quality of finish. U.S. revolvers were offered in .22, .32 and .38 calibers, and were sold at the same time as the main Iver Johnson line until the 1940s. The revolvers were marked 'U.S. Revolver Co.' on the barrel, and had 'US' molded into the grips. There is not much collector interest in this kind of revolver, values are in the $75 range if you can find a buyer. Marc


# 13684 - Replica “Lincoln Deringer”
3/9/2010
Frederick, Matthews, NC

Derringer - .41 - 2 Inch - Don't Know -

Where can I purchase an EXACT replica/reproduction of the Derringer JW Booth used to assassinate President Lincoln in 1865 ? Not a near copy, or similar-to copy - but an exact replica/reproduction ?

Answer:
Frederick- Henry Deringer is well known for his compact single shot pocket pistols, and his name (with an extra “r” added) became the generic term for all single shot (and some multi-shot) pocket pistols. Actually Deringer made variations of his basic design with barrels from 1 ½ inches long to 6 inches long, and in varying calibers, although .41 caliber seems to have been most popular.

Numerous replicas of Deringer’s pistols have been made over the years, including some extremely accurate copies which have been sold as originals to unsuspecting buyers, and others simply as pure replicas. Many of the replicas are poor quality, and just do not look “right” to anyone familiar with what an original looks like. Of course, the “Lincoln” type which was used by John Wilkes Booth to murder President Lincoln on April 14, 1865 is the most popular version to copy.

Some good info on the actual Lincoln Deringer is at http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/jan2001/schehl.htm but if you want to buy a replica, finding a good one will be hard. Most on the market are from Dixie, and even with low expectations, they are not very satisfying. Finding a good copy is possible, but may take a bit of work as the best seem to have been offered a number of years ago by one of the outfits that specializes in commemorative type arms, but I do not recall exactly who. You might keep checking the auction sites to see what turns up on them. John Spangler


# 13679 - M1841 Mississippi Rifle Markings
3/6/2010
Jim, Henderson, NV

Robbins & Lawrence - M1841 Dated 1850 - .54 - Other - NONE -

On barrel top opposite nipple: U.S. JPC P Stock cartouche opposite lock plate: “WAT” (Script initials in oval ) Rectangular cartouche to left of oval cartouche: stamping in rectangle is illegible Top of butt plate: U.S. (reads with rifle horizontal) Underneath U.S.: 8C I (reads with rifle vertical) What is the meaning of ''P'' under JPC? What is the rectangular cartouche? Is the 8c over I a unit designation.

Answer:
Jim- By the 1840s the inspection and marking practices on U.S. small arms were pretty well established and adhered to. There were some differences between arms made at the National Armories at Springfield and Harpers Ferry and those made by the various contractors. At the National Armories inspection was an on-going process with full time inspectors doing what we would consider to be quality control work today, and the superintendent (a military officer) was responsible for the quality of arms produced. Thus the Springfield or Harpers Ferry arms will have subinspector markings on various small parts and a final acceptance stamp, usually on the left flat of the stock.

Manufacture of contract arms was done with the inspection being done on an intermittent basis with inspectors assigned to visit and inspect arms (or some components) presented by the contractor. Contracts called for barrels to be proof tested in rough and finished form, and after successfully passing the latter test, the inspector would apply the “P” indicating it passed proof, along with their initials, so they could be held responsible if the work was later found to be inferior. At the National Armories, similar proof firing was done, with the marks “V” for a visual inspection (basically gauging the dimensions and looking for visual flaws) and “P” for the proof firing test, and an eagle head in lieu of inspector initials. In the case of your rifle, James P. Chapman was the inspector.

Unit markings in the Civil War and earlier period are not easily interpreted. By the 1870s the pattern was adopted for markings where the Regimental number would be on top, then the Company (or troop or battery, depending on branch of service), followed by a number for an individual within that company. Along with the lack of standardization, the multiplicity of unit numbers from various states (as well as regular army units) makes it nearly impossible to be sure of what the actual meaning of any given combination might be.

In any case, a Mississippi rifle is probably the most handsome of all regulation U..S. military arms, and an important weapon of the Civil War. John Spangler


# 13741 - Broomhandle With No Lanyard
3/6/2010
Don, Yorba Linda, CA

Mauser - 1896 - 7.63mm (probably) - 5.5'' - Blue - 270771 -

WAFFENFABRIK MAUSER OBERNDORF A. NECKAR Double crown over a ''U'' The number ''8'' under the barrel Small ring hammer Early safety - 2nd type Tangent sight missing 900 meter mark No barrel ''step'' There is NO lanyard loop or attach point. I have not been able to find any example of this. I see no sign that the lug / attach point was filed or machined off. Is this common? What possible model? Maybe a ''fliers'' or aircrew issue? Thank you!

Answer:
Don, I came across a Red 9 for a good price in Reno a few months ago. I ended up turning it down because it did not have a Lanyard loop, or attachment point just like the pistol you are asking about. I do not think that it would be hard for a talented gunsmith to remove the mounting point and leave no trace that it was ever there. I think that is what happened in both instances. Marc


# 13748 - G98 Unit Markings And Value.
3/2/2010
Greg, Spokane, Wa. USA

German Mauser - GEW 98 - 7.92 Mm - Unknown - Blue - 4949 -

Unit disk on stock W.D.727, Brand on right side of stock ahead of receiver P.L.D., Deutsche Waffen Und Munitionsfabriken 1906 on receiver, K.W.D. 732 on muzzle cap The rifle was used by my great uncle in WW1, but he died and I never got any history about his unit. What unit was W.D.727? When was the rifle manufactured? And how much should I insure it for since I consider it a family heirloom? Thanks for any help you can give me.

Answer:
Greg, your rifle was manufactured in 1906. Value will depend on many things but condition and whether all of the part numbers match are two of the most important factors. You did not provide enough information for me to be able to set a value but I can tell you what the markings stand for. ``W.D.727`` stands for Werft zu Danzig Waffe Nr. 727. I was not able to find anything on the ``K.W.D. 732`` marking but the added K at the beginning may stand for Sachsisches Karabiner Regiment, Saxon Mounted Rifle Regiment or Cuirassier Regiment. Marc.


# 13666 - Rifle With Wooden Barrel Section
3/2/2010
Len Duquesne Pa.

Kynoch Patent - Unknown - Unknown - Blue - K9147 -

I Have a kynoch rifle that has the original stock bolt and receiver, also a ram rod but from the receiver there is a wooden dowel then about six inches of the original barrel end with the sight. There is a number 27 stamped in the top rear of the stock. Would this have been a training rifle, or was it just adulterated? Thank You.

Answer:
Len- I do not know anything about your specific rifle. However, it has been common practice for more than 100 years to make dummy or drill rifles using parts of real guns. Francis Bannerman took some of the debris from his vast accumulation of surplus Civil War era arms and assembled what collectors call “Quaker guns” with wooden barrels but having a cast iron breech section and a piece of real barrel muzzle section so that the “cadets” could fire percussion caps or attach a bayonet when desired. (And, of course, Bannerman had stacks of bayonets to sell too! The use of wood for the barrel kept the weight very light so these could be used by even very young children.

There are numerous copies of the M1903 Springfields made by several makers as school or cadet guns, or toys, and even some that were used by the U.S. Navy to free up real rifles for combat use. We have also seen Trapdoor rifles with wooden barrels and some original parts and others that were entirely made as toys or drill rifles.

After WW2 there were toy guns on the market made out of M1 carbine stocks with wooden barrels and actions. Of course nowadays some busybody neighbor might turn you in to Child Protective Services for even thinking about letting a little kid play with a toy gun. But the same neighbor will insist you send them for indoctrination at the Government Skools, and sees nothing wrong with letting them watch hours of violence filled crap on television or listen to “gangsta rap.” John Spangler


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