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# 11946 - .22 Cal Long Rifle Introduction
Ron Fullerton, Calif.

.22 Cal Long Rifle - .22 Cal - 0 - Blue -

When was the .22 long rifle cal introduced?? or 22 L.R.

Ron, the 22 Long Rifle is the most popular match cartridge in existence, and also the most widely used small game and varmint cartridge. My references indicate that in 1887, J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. modified the .22 Long cartridge by increasing the powder charge to 5.0-grains of black powder and the bullet weight to 40 grains, thus giving birth to the .22 Long Rifle cartridge. Peters is supposed to have been the first ammunition manufacturer to produce the new .22 Long Rifle, but the 1888 Stevens catalog also refers to a UMC .22 caliber Long rimfire rifle cartridge. This 1888 Stevens catalog lists their No.1, 2, 9 and 10 model break-open rifles being available in the new .22 Long Rifle chambering and the New Model Pocket or Bicycle rifle was also chambered for it. At one time, the 22 Long Rifle was available in black, semi-smokeless and smokeless-powder loads. The first high-velocity 22 Long Rifle carriages were introduced by Remington in 1930. Marc

# 11944 - H&R Smooth Bore Handy-Gun

H&R - 7 7/8 Inches -

This is a 410 pistol my father had given to him back in the late 70's. I don't know much more about it other then the name and caliber. It was pawned in the eighties by my older brother and I got it out. It was registered in his name at that time. Not sure if this helps me out or not. He cant find the papers for it but he thinks he can get a copy of it from the  state. Do you have any other suggestions for me? Is this pistol legal to own and what is it worth? Its in really great condition.

Sir, it sounds like you have a H&R smooth bore Handy-Gun. This gun is considered by law to be a "SAWED OFF" (short barreled) shotgun. Any shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches long (measured from the face of the closed breech to the muzzle), or with overall length of less than 26 inches. This includes "hunting shotguns" which have been cut down and also smoothbore guns like the Marble's Game-Getter and H&R Handy Gun, which were originally made with short barrels.

The National Firearms Act passed in 1934 basically outlawed sawed off shotguns/rifles. People who had them were required to register them with the Treasury Department. The Gun Control Act of 1968 had a whole bunch of requirements concerning gun sales, and also included an “Amnesty Period” for people who had not previously registered their machine gun or sawed off shotgun/rifle to do so without any penalty. That Amnesty Period expired in 1968, and there has never been another, and it is highly unlikely that there will ever be another.

When short barreled rifles or shotguns were registered in 1934 or 1968 the owners were given papers to prove that the guns were registered, and copies were kept on file with the BATF in Washington. Theoretically, if you lost your papers, they could provide a replacement copy. However, people familiar with the situation report that the BATF files are a disaster and they are very often unable to tell if your gun is registered or not. Therefore you should assume that if you do not have papers, the odds of having BATF find copies for you are not very good. Thus, the BATF will decide it is NOT registered, unless you can prove that it is.

If you do not have the federal registration papers, not the papers that you got from the pawn shop in the 80's, the pistol is NOT legal to own. Blue book values for H&R smooth bore Handy-Guns that have papers are in the $200 - $600 range depending on condition. Marc

# 12447 - Marlin Model 81 Rear Sight
Larry, San Jose, CA

Marlin 81DL - .22 - 21'' - Blue - (NONE) -

I have a Marlin model 81DL. This rifle originally came with a rear peep sight of ''OK'' quality, but I would like to find and install a better grade peep sight with target adjustment knobs. Do you know if Lyman or any sight manufacturer made an after market sight for this .22? If so, what should I look for? Thanks!

Larry- It looks like the Marlin 12R was the standard rear sight for this model if made after 1940, but Lyman offered the Model 57MR sight for the Model 81. Check with Garry Fellers on our inks page and he may have one for you. He is the best source I know of for sights of all types, and a good guy as well. John Spangler

# 12401 - History Of A 1903 Springfield
Gregory, Georgetown, Ca

Springfield - 30.06 - Standard Barrel With 2-19 Marked - Other - 13394 -

AY 76 on stock. Has the one bolt stock with J F C in box on left side of stock above the trigger guard. Appears to have the 1906 upgrades. Finish is the gray and black and silver mottled. Small s on end of stock under the barrel. Smooth butt plate. Overall very good shape. SRS states that the gun was from Co L, 28th Inf (Tested by RIA). Does a letter from them, with any more information, add that much to the more to the value of the piece? Thanks much, Greg

Gregory- It is not at all common to have ANY documented history for a specific gun, so I am a firm believer that it is a wise and appropriate investment to get a letter on ANY gun that SRS can document. (In the interest of full disclosure, we provide the website for Springfield Research Service, but have no other financial interest in their operation.) I have gotten letters for every gun that I have found that is in SRS database (maybe 1 out of every 200 I have checked.) Some letters are able to provide a lot of really great info while others have little more than unit and date, but that is all that is known. Remember, the information listed on the database is from their preliminary research, which occasionally has errors as a result of ambiguous original source documents. A SRS letter is done only after carrying out further research in related archive records to be sure the letter information is accurate. Don't buy a gun based on just a hit in the SRS database, but insist on having the letter to be sure! I don't know what they have found on your rifle, but if it were mine, I would get the letter! As to the value added, it varies with the details, but I think a letter adds at least the cost of the letter to the value. If something cool, it adds a lot more. (What would you pay for a M1896 Krag carbine? How about one carried up San Juan Hill by one of Roosevelt's Rough Riders? Now, how much difference does THAT letter make?) John Spangler

# 12398 - Colt Revolver Engaged May 1843
Mark- eighty four, PA

Colt - Revolver - Dot Know - Dot Know - Don't Know - DON'T KNOW -

engaged in may 1843 A relative found a colt revolver. On the revolver part it says ''engaged in May 1843.'' also has a patent number. A gun collector told him to call Getteysburg because he says it looks authentic. Was wondering if you guys had any idea of what it would be worth. I realize I have limited details but even a rough estimate would help. Thank you very much.

Mark- Colt engraved (actually roll stamped) a naval scene on the cylinders of Model 1851 .36 caliber "Navy" revolvers and also the .44 caliber Model 1860 "Army" models. This was sort of an advertising gimmick, commemorating the use of Colt pistols by the Texas Navy in 1843. Originals of these models are worth hundreds of dollars at least, and perhaps several thousand dollars, depending on condition. However, many makers have been selling replicas of the Colt models for at least 40 years now, all engraved with the same naval scene. These usually have modern markings as well, but sometimes these are removed by crooks hoping to sell them as valuable originals. Those generally sell for only a hundred or so in good condition, and almost nothing if badly abused. John Spangler

# 12673 - Remington 572 With No Serial Number
Al, San Carlos, California

Remington - 572 - 22 - 23 - Blue - NONE THAT'S THE QUESTION -

I would like to know if Remington first put out the Model 572 without serial numbers. I recently got a Remington 572 that has no serial number and looking over the receiver carefully I cannot find any evidence that a number was ever stamped or rolled into the receiver. Could I have a prototype? Were serial numbers not put on pre 60's Remington .22's? All 572's I've seen have the serial number on the right side of the receiver. Thanks

Al, Remington introduced the Model 572 Fieldmaster in 1955, it was a slide-action, .22-caliber rifle with a tubular magazine that held twenty - .22 Short, seventeen - .22 Long, or fifteen - .22 Long Rifle rimfire cartridges. The rifle could fire any of these cartridge lengths interchangeably and could be single- loaded through the side ejection port. Barrel length was twenty-three inches. Sights were step- adjustable rear and metal bead front and the receiver was grooved for scope mounts.

Before 1968, it was not mandatory for firearms in the US to have serial numbers and it is quite common to see inexpensive 22 rifles and shotguns manufactured prior to that without them. I doubt that your rifle is a prototype, it is probably just an example that was manufactured between introduction of the model in 1955 and 1968 when serial numbers became a requirement. Marc

# 12689 - Savage 32 Value
Chris FL. U.S.

Savage - 32 Auto - 2/4inches - Blue -

Looks like new. The fellow that owns this Savge 32 said his dad won it in a carnival in the 1920s or earlier. He asked me what is it worth and I only new to get in touch with you folks. Do you know what it is worth or where I should look. Thanks Chris.

Chris, you did not send me a model, this complicates things a little, but since Savage only manufactured three models of this type of pistol, I can probably give you a pretty good guess.

  1. The Model 1907 was manufactured from 1910 to 1917 and it was available in.32 or .380. It came with a blue finish, fixed sights, exposed cocking piece (hammer) and metal grips on early .32 ACP models or hard rubber grips on all others.
  2. The Model 1915 was manufactured from 1915 to 1917, it was similar to Model 1907, with a grip safety, but it had no visible cocking piece.
  3. The Model 1917 differed from the Model 1915 in that it had a spur hammer (cocking piece) and trapezoidal grip frame, it was manufactured from 1920 to 1928.

Values in the blue book for the Model 1915 are the highest, they range from about $200 to all most $600 depending on condition. The Model 1907 comes in second, values range from $100 to about $500 for it. The Model 1917 comes in last with values between range from $100 to about $300. Marc

# 12699 - Late War P.38
Mark, Atlanta, GA

Walther (I think) - P38 - 9mm - Parkerized - 5931 a ac45 -

Has the Nazi proof markings and a ''359'' under an eagle, all numbers on slide, frame, locking block and barrel match Wondering if you can give me some detail regarding this WWII pistol. Where it was made, when and if there's any significant value to it. Thanks!! Mark in Atlanta

Mark, your P.38 was manufactured by Walther in 1945. The "ac" marking is a WW-II German ordnance code assigned to Carl Walther of Zella-Mehlis Germany and 45 is the year of manufacture. The "a" is part of your serial number, Walther and Mauser stamped the year of manufacture on the left hand side of the slide and serial numbers were reset at the beginning of each year to number 1. When the number 9999 was reached a letter suffix was added starting with "a" and so on through the alphabet.

Walther ("ac" variation) P.38 pistols should have the following markings:

  • The serial number on the slide just forward of the safety lever, on the frame above the trigger, and on the front of the barrel group below the round section of the barrel. The last three digits on the base of the barrel locking block.
  • P.38 (serial #) ac (year of manufacture) or P.38 ac (serial #) (year) on the left side of the slide.
  • Military acceptance (stamp eagle over 359) stamped twice on the right side of the slide, once on the left side of the frame above the trigger, on the left side of the barrel group, on the right side of the barrel locking block, and on the upper rear of the magazine.
  • Military test proof (eagle over a swastika) on the right side of the slide between the two stampings of the military acceptance stamp, on the left side of the barrel group, and on the left side of the barrel locking block.

When I fist started collecting, Walther P.38 pistols manufactured in 1945 were worth a little less than earlier production pistols because the quality of workmanship declined in the final months of the war, but this is no longer the case. In the last several years collector interest has increased in late war Parkerized Walther P.38 pistols, so much that they are now bringing a premium. I would estimate value for your P.38 to be in the $650 to $1200 range depending on condition. Marc

# 12389 - Trapdoor Springfield With Documented History

29'' - Blue - 112591 -

Model 1873 Any Info you can give. This was inherited. Does not state Caliber.

Sir- Your rifle was made about 1879, and a standard Infantry version of the .45-70 caliber Springfield "trapdoor" rifle. The barrel length should be 32 5/8" long (measured from the face of the closed breech block to the muzzle, not just the part in front of the receiver). Springfield Research Service has found records that show that this exact rifle was issued to Company I of the 2nd Missouri Volunteer Infantry in 1898 for use in the Spanish American War. Sometimes they can even identify the exact soldier to whom it was issued. For a fee of $150 they will provide a letter documenting this, and providing the source of the info and in the case of arms linked to a specific solider, they often are able to provide a copy of the soldier's service record. I highly recommend getting their letter, as only a small number of guns have any documented history. Nice find! If you don't want to keep it, I would like to add it to my collection of "guns with history." John Spangler

# 12388 - Registering Marble Game Getter

Marble Arms - Game Getter - 22/44 - 12'' - Blue - 3239 -

This was given to me and I want to register it as a Relic. Is this possible?

Sir- That is a matter of interpretation of federal firearms laws that we are not qualified to address. You should ask the local BATFE office, who will probably have to consult someone who knows something about that specialized area. It may be best to have a lawyer ask for you, as your identity would be protected by client-attorney privilege, in case they say you cannot register it. I wish the answer was an unequivocal "yes- easy to do" but regret that it is probably not the case. John Spangler

# 12387 - Trapdoor Cleaning Rod Removal
Joe, Oak Ridge, TN

Springfield - Model 1873 - 45-70 - Rifle - Blue -

The gun I acquired has rust on/in the barrel and trapdoor. I attempted to remove the cleaning rod and have been unable to do so. I can turn it, so I do not believe it is jammed. Is there a release mechanism for the cleaning rod that I am not seeing, is there a ''trick'' to removing it, or is it simply jammed? Any information would be helpful.

Joe- The cleaning rod has a swelled area about 5 inches from the tip, with a groove around the center of the swell. The stock has a latch which is not really visible until you take the rifle completely apart, or at least get the rod out. The latch has a small lip that protruded into the rod channel and engages the groove on the rod. To remove the rod, you need to pull the tip of the rod down away from the barrel a bit so that the swell in the rod will clear the lip and allow it to be pulled out. Sometimes it requires a lot of effort, but most of the time it is easy. The rods are a good quality spring steel, but some rifles have had reproduction rods installed which are not nearly as strong and could break if a lot of force is used. Hope that solves the mystery. John Spangler

# 12692 - WWI Luger With Unit Marks
Jack, Alta Loma, CA

Lugar - 9mm - 3-4 inches - Blue - 1429 -

Serial number 1429 on different parts of the pistol including the clips B.3.J.D. is marked on the lower part of the handle 1913 is marked just behind the barrel and fancy script writing on the action. 4 proof marks on the right side, 3 letters with crowns and an eagle at the end. holster is in great shape and marked 1913 on the inside of the flap. All numbers on the pistol match. The pistol is in fantastic shape My deceased Father in law took this pistol off a German soldier in WW2 Can you identify this pistol

Jack, it sounds like you have a nice WWI vintage Luger. The 1913 marking on the chamber is the year that the Luger was manufactured. The fancy writing that you mention on the action is the manufacturer's logo, ''DWM'', which stands for Deutsche Waffen u. Munitionswerke of Berlin-Borsigwalde, Germany. The ''B.3.J.D'' stamped on the grip strap is a unit mark. I could not find a similar marking in my reference books but it probably stands for Bayerisches Jager Bataillon 3 Dragoner Regiment. Let us know if you ever want to sell. Marc

# 12384 - Fabrica De Armas
Wayne, Salem, MO

Fabrica De Armas - 276 - Blue - A3806 -

1899 This gun is in good shape, but I can not find any information on it. Anything will help. Thanks

Wayne- I think your rifle will also have the name Oviedo on it, the name of a Spanish arsenal that made 7mm Mauser rifles. Yours would have been the Model 1893 (or one of the carbine variations of that model) but their most familiar product is the later Model 1916 rifle which was somewhat shorter and with different sights. Values are very modest on all of these, and in my opinion, the quality of the material and workmanship is pretty poor. Values are very modest, at best. Many are found converted to .308 caliber and I would never attempt to shoot one of those. I don't think I would have similar concerns about the 7mm versions, but I would still want to have a competent gunsmith approve it. John Spangler

# 11942 - Bullseye Carbine

Bullseye - Carbine - .30 M1 Carbine - 18'' - Blue - 1499 -

G.I. Markings except receiver, M2 stock,M2 trigger housing. This rifle has not been shot and is in excellent shape. I cannot seam to find any good information out on this carbine. I have been told that Universal bought this company out but I cannot find out any solid information about it. It has a very low serial number. I have no idea how many were made or the years of manufacture. Or its collector value. Please help me. Thanks. Randy

Randy, I have been unable to find any information on this manufacturer. I can tell you that collector interest in M1 Carbine parts guns with commercial receivers is about nonexistent. Marc

# 11919 - Agawam Arms
Patrick, Lebanon, MO

Agawam Arms Co. - 22 - Blue - 11042 I think -

It has a gold trigger, hammer, and front sight I am looking for some info on this gun. The barrel reads exactly, Pat. Pending M-68.22 cal. Short, Long, Long Riffle Agawam Arms Co. Agawam, Mass. Made In USA. On the receiver is were 11042 was found I think that is the serial number. I am trying to find a cross reference at least, so I can find parts (for future ref.) This gun is a single shot and its a lever action when you cock the lever it does not set the hammer, lever is just for loading and unloading you have to set the hammer separate. I hope this is enough info. And anything you could tell me about this gun would be helpful and very appreciated. Thank you for your time Patrick.

Patrick, I was not able to find much, only that Agawam Arms was a manufacturer of rifles in Agawam, Massachusetts circa 1970. Probably not worth purchasing parts for. Marc

# 12379 - Harpers Ferry Musket- Cut Down
Larry, Wooster, Ohio

1818 Harpers Ferry - Smooth Bore - 69? - Barrel Was Shortened - Don't Know - NO SERIAL NUMBER -

Eagle and US on lock, 1818 Harpers Ferry on lock, L on trigger, two AA on side plate opposite side of lock. Converted to percussion. Part of the forearm was removed and the barrel was shortened, is there any value to this piece? If so what would be a rough value. Thanks.

Larry- Originally made with a 42 inch barrel, these were mostly obsolete and sold off as surplus by the Civil War, although some remained in use then. Value depends on condition and the extent of the alterations. I usually see cut down muskets from that period offered in the range of $200-600 but they are slow sellers unless someone likes it for decorative purposes, or thinks they can salvage enough parts to fix something else they already own. John Spangler

# 12376 - Jukar Black Powder Gun Value
Jeff, Liberty, MO

Jukar - Black Powder - .45 - Blue - 0000001 -

Pistol was given to me. It is in great shape and fires well. Looks like a Traditions Kentucky pistol. Does it have any collector value?

Jeff- Jukar was a name used on inexpensive reproductions imported in the late 20th century. They have NO collector value and little appeal to shooters other than for their usually modest prices. I see them priced at various levels, but think that less than $100 is realistic for rifles and less than $50 for pistols, and if I had one to sell, I would not refuse any offer! John Spangler

# 11918 - Refinished WWII HP
Pat, Avon CT

FN Hi Power - 9mm - 5in - Blue - 609 ON BARREL AND FRAME -

No tangent sight or stock slots. Has the hammer with hole. Tiny marks on the left side of the barrel that may be W''?''A140. It seems to have been refinished. Internal extractor. What might the age be? Is this considered collectable? Thanks

Pat, the WaA markings indicate WWII manufacture, at least for the part with the markings. If the pistol has been re-finished, most collector interest has been destroyed. Value will be in the $300 or less range as a shooter. Marc

# 11943 - Early 1911

Colt - 1911 - 45 - Blure - 71XXX -

Patented Apr 20 1897 Colts PT.F.A.MFG. CO. United States Property. Model of 1911 U.S. Army. I presume the stamping is a colt on the left side. I would like to know the value and some information.

Daniel, your pistol was made at the end of 1914, one of 12,170 made that year for the U.S. government. When it left the factory it had high polish blued finish (really black in color). The grips were checkered wood with and uncheckered diamond on top and bottom and with between 12 to 14 rows of checkering between the tips of the diamond shaped areas. The magazine would have been blued on the bottom and unblued on the top (bright steel color). The magazine would have had a lanyard loop on the bottom so a cavalryman would not drop the magazine and lose it when reloading while galloping. The main spring house that forms the bottom of the rear grip was flat, smooth and also had a lanyard loop at the bottom. The Colt logo, the rearing horse was on the left side of the slide at the back.

It would require pictures to determine if the slide is original to the pistol and if all the markings are correct. It would also require pictures to determine if hammer, grip safety, thumb safety, slide stop, barrel, barrel bushing and spring plus are also in the correct configuration for a pistol made in 1914.

A 1914 pistol in 90% or better condition would probably sell in today's market for between $1500 to $2000. It is rare to see such pistols in anything better than 50% condition, and most are in the 10% or less range (no finish, dings and dents in the metal, heavy wear on the grips, and some small parts replaced). These pistols are considered shooters and would sell in the $400 to $600 range. Marc

# 11931 - Wartime? Model PP Double Action

Walther - PP - 32 -

Looks like an Eagle on both the slide and just above the trigger guard on right side. Serial numbers on barrel and handle match. Inscription reads ''Waffentahrik Zella-Mehlis (Thu)with .. above the u Some of the inscription is hard to read, especially the last four letters. I have a chance to acquire this. Anything special about it? Date and location of manufacturer? Estimated value?

Francis, with the information that you provided it is hard to say for sure what vintage the pistol is. Because you did not mention any proof marks other than the "Eagle", it sounds like the pistol is probably a wartime commercial model PP. PP designates "Polizei Pistole". PP Pistols came with a 3 & 7/8 inch barrel, blue finish, fixed sights, and plastic grips. Pistols manufactured before 1939 had a Crown/N proof mark. Pistols manufactured between 1939 and 1945 had a Eagle/N Nazi commercial proof. This pistol was manufactured in Zella-Mehlis Thuerigen Germany.

Without knowing condition, markings, mag-release type and if all the numbers match, all that I can tell you is that values range from about $200 to a little over $1200.

# 12372 - Marlin 39 Fitted For Silencer
Lloyd Rockford MI

Marlin Model 39 - 22 - Blue - S7758 -

Quick change threads with a thread-on cover at the muzzle Model 39 Are the threads on the muzzle for a silencer? was this a factory produced model or modified after purchase?

Lloyd- According to William Brophy's definitive study "Marlin Firearms" pages 653-654 Maxim silencers were offered for Marllin .22 rifles, but not centerfire calibers. It is not entirely clear if the threading on the muzzle was done by Marlin, or Maxim, but my take is that it was a Marlin factory option, or could be done later by Maxim (or local gunsmiths). The barrel could be threaded with normal threads which would accept either an adapter with interrupted threads for a quick detachable silencer, or have the silencer screwed directly on to the muzzle for more or less permanent attachment. A third option was to have the muzzle threaded with interrupted threads eliminating the need for the adapter. A knurled cover was provided to protect the muzzle threads. While it is perfectly legal to own the rifles with silencer threads, possession of silencers is strictly controlled (basically handled the same a possession of machine guns). John Spangler

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