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# 2954 - Winchester Model 99 Thumb Trigger
6/26/00
Rodney KY

Winchester - Thumb Trigger - 22 - Blue -

Patent date Feb 05 1904 This gun has been in my family for over 70 years, what is the history of this model and approximate value or collector interest?

Answer:
Rodney, the Winchester Model 99 (Thumb Trigger) was an adaptation of the earlier Winchester Model 1902. Instead of the customary trigger and trigger guard on the underside of the stock, the Model 99 trigger was extended rearward beneath the head of the firing pin so the rifle could be fired by depressing the top of the trigger with the thumb. Winchester claimed that the thumb style trigger did not cause the shooter to throw the gun off target as can happen when a conventional trigger is pulled incorrectly (jerked instead of squeezed). Except for the thumb trigger feature, the Winchester Model 99 was the same as the parent Model 1902 rifle. The Model 99 was first listed in the July 1904 Winchester catalog as a novelty in rim fire rifles, factory records show the first Thumb Trigger rifles were delivered to warehouse stocks on July 5, 1904. Approximately 75,433 model 99 rifles were manufactured from 1904 to 1923. Blue book values range from to $250 to $700 depending on condition. Marc


# 2910 - Jukar Muzzle Loader
6/26/00
Bill, Jenks, OK, USA

JUKAR - .45 Or .50 - 0003777 -

JUKAR SPAIN 0003777 are all stamped on the barrel How old is this weapon and where can I find out more about it?

Answer:
Bill- I think these were made sometime in the 1960s-1980s. They are not old, not collectible, and not valuable. Probably fun to shoot (with black powder after being checked by a competent gunsmith) or a good decorator item for over the fireplace. Really good to leave out for the burglars to steal instead of your valuable guns. Hope this helps. John Spangler


# 2909 - Winchester Hotchkiss- US Marked
6/26/00
Scott, Hollis, Maine

Winchester-Hotchkiss - Third Model - 45-70 - 32" - Blue And Color Case - 23927 -

DFC cartouche, DFC and US stamps in metal, 90% condition, mirror bore, all original with no alterations. The gun has a broken extractor. I have obtained an original replacement part. I have not been able to figure out how to get the bolt out to replace the extractor. I'm sure this can be done without taking the action apart? Someone told me to push the trigger forward but this doesn't work. Thanks.

Answer:
Scott- that is a fairly scarce gun you have with the US markings. I would like to get another (had one years ago but the stock had been chopped and replaced.) I regret that I do not recall how to remove the bolt, and I do not seem to have anything handy that will reveal the secret. I seem to recall it was something to do with pushing or pulling the trigger. Maybe someone else knows and will enlighten us. John Spangler


# 2949 - Ehrenwaffe des Politischen Leiters Walther PPK
6/24/00
Whit, Reidsville, N.C. USA

Walther - PPK - 7.65mm /32ACP - Blue - 219089K -

The grips are made with a eagle holding a wreath, The center of wreath there is a German swastika. The grips are brown in color. My Grandfather brought this gun home after WWII, I wanted to know any history or information available about this weapon.

Answer:
Whit, the eagle holding a wreath with a swastika that you describe was called a "Hoheitsabzeichen" (High Insignia or Eagle and Swastika). Hoheitsabzeichen are found on the grips of Party Leader or "Ehrenwaffe des Politischen Leiters" (Honor weapon of the Political Leaders) Walther PPK Pistols. Party Leader PPK pistols were awarded to 3rd Reich political leaders, and were manufactured in three variations.

1. Early first variation pistils have the RZM (Reichs Zeug Meisterei) control mark stamped on the left side of the slide, plain grips and were issued with a plain brown holster.

2. Later second variation pistols had RZM mark on the left side of the slide and the Hoheitsabzeichen on both grips, these were issued with a brown leather holster that had the Hoheitsabzeichen stamped on the flap.

3. Third variation pistols have the Hoheitsabzeichen on both grips and were issued with a brown leather holster stamped on the flap with Hoheitsabzeichen, but are not RZM marked.

Party Leader PPK pistols are very rare. Blue book values range from $1000 to $3000. Let us know if you ever decide to sell. Marc


# 2973 - 44 Rimfire Shot Cartridge
6/24/00
Terry

I found a 44 rimfire shot cartridge with a "H" stamped on it. On the back, it has been hit twice by a firing pin. The question I have is, did Winchester chamber the 44 shot, and did it have two firing pins? If so what model was it.

Answer:
Terry - The Henry rifles and Model 1866 Winchester both used .44 rimfire ammunition, and could have had shot cartridges in that caliber. Both these had dual firing pins. If your cartridge has a distinct taper/bottleneck to it, then I would assume that it may be a .41 Swiss. These were also rimfire with dual firing pins, and shot cartridges in that caliber are not too scarce. Many people get them mixed up with .44 caliber cartridges. "H" marked Winchester cartridges are common for these, we have sold several boxes in recent years. John Spangler


# 2972 - Uniform Question
6/24/00
Solomon

Can you tell me what differences there may have been between the uniforms for foot soldiers in the American Civil War (North) and the Spanish-American war? This information is for the use of the Wood County Historical Association (I have a friend who works for them, and they need the information for a display).

Answer:
Solomon- There are extensive differences between CW and SAW US uniforms for infantry. To the casual observer the differences are minor to negligible. Depending on the budget and focus of an exhibit you may be able to get by with repro CW type uniforms if you have some on hand already instead of going out and purchasing new ones. Main visible difference if shift from 4 buttons on the coat to 5 buttons, and different style rank chevrons. Many minor differences that would be too hard to explain. Accoutrements are much different. Cartridge belts with loops ("Mills belt") were used instead of leather cartridge box on a crossbelt. Bayonet scabbard was usually of M1885 pattern with long brass hook and US rosette attached to leather frog and steel body instead of leather scabbard with brass tip (if armed with .45-70 "trapdoor" and Krag bayonet was entirely different from CW.. Khaki canvas haversack with tapered leather shoulder strap was used, or sometimes a blanket roll. Canteen was covered with khaki canvas instead of gray/blue wool, and had triangular hooks and narrow leather shoulder strap. Canvas leggings often used, and broad brim "slouch hat" common also. Many excellent photos are available in Frank Freidel's "Splendid Little War" to see a wide variety of US and volunteer troops in camp and field. You may want to check to see if there are any reenactors/living history people in your area. They are usually well informed about the uniforms of their period and often do "impressions" of several periods. They really enjoy interpreting exhibits and working with school age people, and can be a valuable asset to complement the museum's holdings and exhibits. I do not have any contacts in mind, but I know there are a bunch of them out there, and specifically some SAW types in Florida (Tampa?). John Spangler


# 2971 - Corrosive Or Not
6/20/00
Brian

I have about 20 or so boxes of Winchester .30 Ball M2 ammunition with a 51 headstamp. I have tried to get answers on if it corrosive or not on G&K and CSP without any luck. The lot numbers have a letter mixed in and I was told this indicates commercial production. Anyway, I would like to sell it instead of taking a chance with one of my Garands. I can send a box if you think it would either help with the id or you maybe interested in buying.(or consignment/trade) Thanks

Answer:
Brian- According to U.S. Department of the Army TM 9-1305-200 dated June 1961, the initial lot of NON-corrosive .30 Ball M2 made by Winchester under US Army contract was lot number 23201 in August 1951. Therefore loose rounds marked WRA 51 must be assumed to be corrosive. If the Lot number is some other type numbering, it was apparently made for something other than a U.S. Army contract and type of primers cannot be determined. People shot corrosive ammo for years, and as long as they properly cleaned their rifles there was no problem. However, since common use of non-corrosive primers began, shooters have become lazy and do not clean daily and even a single round of corrosive ammo can quickly ruin a nice rifle. Various other makers, calibers (.45 ACP and .50 BMG) and types (AP, tracer, API, Blank) changed at different dates between 1945 and 1953, so NEVER assume that US GI ammo is non-corrosive unless you check a reliable reference first. John Spangler


# 2829 - Daisy Model 8
6/20/00
Chad Laplace, LA

Daisy - 8 - .22 L.R - 16" - Black - 6057946 -

I have a Daisy model 8 .22 cal L.R youth model rifle (NOT AIR RIFILE)It has a black plastic stock, and is a single shot bolt action. I was wondering if this gun was rare, because everyone I show it to can't believe it's a Daisy .22,

Answer:
Chad, The Daisy model 8 is a single shot 22 rifle with a 16 inch barrel, and black synthetic stock. Daisy manufactured 30,000 of these in 1987 and 1988 to be marketed by Wal-Mart only. The blue book lists values for these to be in the $100 range. Marc


# 2897 - Rifle Identification
6/20/00
Gary from Rock Springs, WY

Unknown - ? 8x57 - 24 3/4 Inches - Blue - 8445 ? -

On barrel just in front of the bolt are '2,75 GBP ' N St m G The barrel 'steps down' and has a swivel attached. The front sight is a ramp type. The stock has a pistol grip that is checkered. It has a double set trigger and a Mauser action. What make and model rifle is this? Is it 8x57 caliber? An 8x57 bullet appears to fit in the action. It looks allot like a Mauser type B. If you can identify it, what might it be worth. Thank You for your time.

Answer:
Gary- Without seeing the rifle it is hard to tell you much. Double set triggers are a nice feature found on finer quality arms, but often added to military Mauser 98 rifles that were converted to sporters, either in Germany, or elsewhere. Many fine German sporting rifles were seized as war trophies at the end of WW2 and shipped home by American troops, so it is hard to tell where a gun was converted, except by the design features and workmanship. The use of s stepped barrel and the numerous markings suggest it may be a military barrel. Mauser 98 military barrels were straight for much of their length with steps to reduce the diameter rather than a smooth taper. Apparently this was done to eliminate shifts in the bedding as the barrel heated up from firing, but probably also to simplify manufacture of the barrel and the stock inletting. Most sporters have tapered barrels since they look better. I would suggest you take the rifle to a gun show in your area (I know there are several in Rock Springs, and I sometimes attend them). The dealers there can probably tell you what you have. John Spangler


# 2870 - Noble 22
6/17/00
JR, Conway, SC

Noble - 275 - 22 - Not Known - Blue Steel - UNKNOWN -

lever action I would like any info you have on this type of gun, when it was made, how much it is worth, etc.

Answer:
JR, the Noble MFG. CO. was located in Haydenville, MA. Nobel manufactured semi-auto, lever, and slide action rifles and slide action and SxS shotguns from about 1950 to 1970. Nobel firearms were for the most part utilitarian and inexpensive, and as a result, there is little or no collectors interest. Prices for their lever action 22's are in the $35 -$65 range. Marc


# 2968 - Pen Gun
6/17/00
Angela

I am trying to find information on a gun owned by my husbands grandfather. It appears to be made of a lightweight silver metal and is the size of a fountain pen. It has a pocket clip on it. There are no markings indicating the manufacturer and it seems to fire a single bullet. His grandfather does not remember where he got it or how it works. If you have any ideas I would appreciate the info. Thank you very much.

Answer:
Angela- These were self defense type weapons circa 1890-1930 made by a couple of different makers. I am 99% positive that the BATF ruled that these fall into the same category as machine guns or sawed off shotguns under the National Firearms Act of 1934. If not previously registered with BATF, they are illegal contraband, and there is not way to retroactively register them or make them legal. My official recommendation is that you contact your nearest BATF office and tell them what you have, and believe that it may be illegal, and you want to turn it in for destruction. Other people may suggest that you just quietly destroy it and dispose of the pieces and let the BATF guys go chase real criminals instead of thinking about hassling you. Some of these were issued for spy or OSS (forerunner of CIA) use in WW2. John Spangler


# 2969 - Lyle Cannon
6/17/00
Bill

Looking for information resources on these cannons used in sea rescue operations to fire a line to a vessel in distress from the shore. Pictures, specifications etc. Point me in the right direction if you can.

Answer:
Bill- Always glad to help NRA life members. Lyle Guns were first adopted in the mid 1880s and continued in use until well after WW2 with the Coast Guard and its predecessor organizations. Essentially they are small muzzle loading cannons made of brass or steel that fired a heavy steel rod with a sleeve about 1.5 inch diameter to fit in the bore. A rope was attached to the rod and laid out in a carefully arranged pattern to allow it to pay out smoothly when fired so that the projectile would drag the rope above and beyond the vessel in distress. The cannons are still encountered fairly often, and not prohibitively expensive. Besides old Annual Reports of the Chief of Ordnance from the 1880s, an excellent source of information is a small booklet "The Lifesaving Guns of David Lyle" which would probably answer all your questions. I have a copy somewhere but am unable to locate it and tell you the author or confirm that is the exact title. Your local librarian can probably get you a copy on interlibrary loan, and gun book dealers such as IDSA Books, (Piqua, OH) or Rutgers Book Center (Highland Park, NJ) may have a copy still available. There is an outfit in the Midwest (Indiana, I believe) called South Bend Ordnance that specializes in reproducing old muzzle loading artillery pieces, and they have a Lyle gun fetish. They own several and rent them out to orchestras with percussion sections lacking suitable ordnance to properly perform the !812 Overture. They may have a web site and have some info on the Lyle guns. We also have several artillery related links on our links page, one of which was recently offering a Lyle gun for sale. John Spangler


# 2873 - Winchester Model 1892
6/13/00
Don, Dayton NV USA

Winchester - 1892 - 32 20 Winchester # - 24 - Blue - 838629 -

I was wondering about the value and any other history for this particular rifle. Also any info on getting ammo. The rifle is in fair to good condition.

Answer:
Over one million Winchester Model 1892 rifles were manufactured between 1892 and 1941, the model was first listed in the July 1892 Winchester catalog and factory records indicate that the first delivery to warehouse stock was made on May 3, 1892. The Model 1892 was devised as a companion rifle that would chamber popular center fire handgun calibers 44-40, 38-40, and 32-20. The 25-20 chambering was developed especially for this model and was added in August 1895. The 1892 was the same basic design as the earlier Model 1886 with a slightly simplified mechanism and some component parts scaled down in size to handle the smaller handgun calibers. Winchester offered the Model 1892 in several different configurations:

The 1892 carbine was manufactured from 1893-1941, it usually had a straight wrist butt, a band around the forend, and a round 20in barrel. "Trappers Carbines" were also offered with 12-18 inch barrels. Carbine production continued in 25-20 and 44-40 calibers even after 1892 rifle production had been abandoned.

The 1892 Fancy Sporting Rifle was manufactured from 1892-1930, it had a fancy pistol grip buttstock and could be ordered in any of the standard barrel styles with full or half length magazine.

The 1892 Musket was manufactured from 1898-1903, it had a 30 inch barrel, a straight-wrist buttstock, three barrel bands, a nose cap and swivels.

The 1892 Sporting Rifle was manufactured from 1892-1932, the standard pattern had a straight-wrist butt, a concave shoulder plate, and a 24in round, octagon or half-octagon barrel.

The 1892 Take Down Rifle was announced in the autumn of 1893, but very few were ever manufactured.

The Model 1892 was immensely popular both in the United States and for many years throughout South America, Australia, and the Far East, it was the second Winchester model to pass the one million production mark. The millionth 1892 rifle (chambered in 32-20) was engraved and presented to the United States Secretary of War, Patrick Hurley, on December 17, 1932. Admiral Robert E. Peary carried a Model 1892 carbine on his trips to the North Pole.

Blue book Model 1892 values range from $150 to over $2500 depending on condition, year of manufacture and configuration. For ammunition try "The Old Western Scrounger", there is a link to him on our links page. Marc


# 2962 - Capture Papers
6/13/00
Dave

I have noticed recently, that every so often a captured WW2 or Vietnam firearm or other militaria is listed with "capture papers" that allow the individual soldier to bring the weapon back to the states. There seems to be many different formats to these "papers", with some being issued on a Platoon or Company level and others all the way to "Theatre Command" level. I would estimate that less than one in twenty captured/surrendered military firearms that are for sale have this documentation. I notice that sometimes the weapon is listed on the paper by serial number, sometimes it isn't, (depending on who wrote the certificate). Since you are a resident expert in scarcity and military firearms in general, my questions are. What do you think the companionship of these papers to a particular firearm? How much value to you when buying or selling, would this add to a particular piece...20%...40%?? It would seem, (for a change), that these would be hard to fake, given the ability to check out the authenticity of the individuals, signatures, and units that are mentioned on the paper and the general aging of the paper too. Have you ever seen any fakes of these or heard of them? What is your general comments about the papers with the weapons and how they help to document history. I have a hankering for something with some written history instead of the thousands of stories I'm sure that you've heard like;..."Uncle Joe-Bob got this when he killed a platoon of SS officers". These papers add an air of authenticity to the provenance of any given piece. An comments? I am a staunch member of NRA and GOA and encourage everyone to vote during every election cycle, (this one in particular). Thanks much, Dave

Answer:
Dave- Your question is a good one, "capture papers" is a collector term for, as you correctly point out, a variety of official documents prepared at various levels, usually the local unit. These were required or authorized by orders or directives from various levels in the military hierarchy which probably evolved over time and probably overlapped and conflicted to some degree. All this is speculation on my part, but based on a nearly 30 year career struggling to implement or issue military orders on a vast array of serious and silly matters. Apparently the purpose of "capture papers" was to show that a specific GI had approval to have some sort of captured military gear in their possession and/or ship it home. Apparently under international law and the customs of war in general, captured enemy property is assumed to become government property of the victorious side, not personal booty, hence the need for something to transfer ownership/authorize possession on the individual level. As far as value goes, "capture papers" add maybe 10-25% above the value of a similar item with no history. This is a guess, and will vary with the condition of the item and the background or information provided by the documents. A "sporterized" Japanese rifle will probably not have any premium. A 98% condition P-38 pistol with holster, and documented to someone awarded a silver star or higher award, and as part of a grouping of his awards, uniforms, service record etc would add a lot more value than an undocumented gun. USMC, Airborne, or Ranger stuff always has more demand and higher prices than less popular units. The only sure way to tell is to put an item up for sale and see where buyer and seller reach an agreement on value. Bottom line is, every collector needs to evaluate this for themselves. Some collect hardware, others collect history, some like both. John Spangler


# 2963 - Pen Gun
6/13/00
Angela

I am trying to find information on a gun owned by my husbands grandfather. It appears to be made of a lightweight silver metal and is the size of a fountain pen. It has a pocket clip on it. There are no markings indicating the manufacturer and it seems to fire a single bullet. His grandfather does not remember where he got it or how it works. If you have any ideas I would appreciate the info. Thank you very much.

Answer:
Angela- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. These were self defense type weapons circa 1890-1930 made by a couple of different makers. I am 99% positive that the BATF ruled that these fall into the same category as machine guns or sawed off shotguns under the National Firearms Act of 1934. If not previously registered with BATF, they are illegal contraband, and there is not way to retroactively register them or make them legal. My official recommendation is that you contact your nearest BATF office and tell them what you have, and believe that it may be illegal, and you want to turn it in for destruction. Other people may suggest that you just quietly destroy it and dispose of the pieces and let the BATF guys go chase real criminals instead of thinking about hassling you. Some of these were issued for spy or OSS (forerunner of CIA) use in WW2. John Spangler


# 2958 - How Do You Adjust For Elevation On An '03
6/10/00

I have a oddball question. I went to a gun show today and bought a M1903 Mark I. Dad and I took it to the range and shot it and the rifle shoots 15-17 inches high at 100 yds. with 168 gr. ammo. How do you adjust the rear sight for elevation on a M1903 Springfield? I looked in my Brophy book and my Canfield book and can't find any sort of "how-to" info on sight adjustment. Do you think this rifle can be zeroed or do I need to find this one a new home? Have you had this problem with any of your M1903's?

Answer:
Len- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. If you are using the rear sight folded down, it is set for "battle sight" which is something like 568 yards, selected so that between about 100 and 700 yds you will hit a man size target between the top of the head (at close range) and toes at long range. Flip the sight up and go by the numbers on the ladder, noting that the small peep and the nitch in the Christmas tree will read differently. If this does not work, you need a higher front sight blade. Easiest way is to clean it thoroughly then build it up with a little bondo from the car, or other epoxy stuff and then trim it down a little bit at a time until it is right. Not a an authorized GI repair, but it will work without a lot of trouble. John Spangler


# 2957 - $50,000 Henry Elwell Rifle
6/10/00
James

I have the potential to acquire an old gun the owner currently claims is a Henry Elwell, 1 of 3 in existence, valued at $50,000. Is this value correct and would it be obtainable through your shows or consignment program, if the condition of the gun was what is claimed. Please reply

Answer:
James- According to my references, Henry Elwell was a lock maker in Seneca County, Ohio circa 1810-1812. He could have made complete rifles, or this could be a lock by him on a rifle made by another well known or not so well known maker. This would lead me to suspect that we are talking about what is commonly called a "Kentucky" rifle. It may be worth $50,000 or far less than that. We would have to see some very detailed photos in order to make even a rough estimate of value, and on something in that price range it would be prudent to have a qualified expert examine it to determine the originality and if there has been any repair, restoration or fakery committed upon it. Some of the finer Kentuckies from the "golden age" bring that kind of money, but average rifles in average condition are more often found in the $1,500-3,500 range, or much less if repaired or later guns. I can recommend a reputable dealer who specializes in Kentucky rifles and regularly sells them in that price range. (Hey Mike, I mean YOU!). If it is a "Henry" lever action rifle then that is an entirely different situation. It sounds like you are not real familiar with guns. If this is the case, I would STRONGLY suggest you NOT buy this gun until you have done a lot more research and decided that you want to spend that much on one gun. Many collectors (perhaps with tight budgets or pampered wives) take years before their cumulative collection reaches the $50,000 level. There are many superb examples of the gun makers' art available on the market from a wide variety of sources, and at many reputable auction houses. If you want one, I suggest you shop around for a while before investing. I would also you invest because you really like the gun for what it is, not because someone says it is worth $xxxxxx or only x were made. For many scarce guns the only thing scarcer is someone who wants to buy it. If there is an exciting history, it should be well documented, and even documents should be treated with caution or suspicion. Most people would not buy a stock, a diamond, a bridge, or a swamp unless they have specialized knowledge in the field, or are confident that they are dealing with a reputable seller. They also would want to decide if they are doing so as in vestment with the hope of making a profit, or just for the pleasure of owning the item regardless of profit or loss. Frankly, we cater to the collector with a lower budget, and leave the mega-bucks guns to those who specialize in such things. They seem to travel in different circles and have different interests, and often are more enthused about a new acquisition because it cost so much more than their buddy's latest gun, but may not be able to explain a thing about what makes it historically, artistically or technically significant. It is a wonderful thing that everyone is free to make choices like this. Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide. Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. John Spangler


# 2882 - Savave Model 101?
6/10/00
BD Hall

Savave - .22 -

What can you tell me about this pistol? I recently ran across one at a friends house and had never seen one before. How rare are they

Answer:
B.D. , perhaps you are referring to the Savage model 101. Savage manufactured the model 101 from 1960 to about 1968, it was the first handgun that Savage had marketed in almost 40 years. The Model 101 was a single-shot design that had the appearance of a Frontier-style revolver, but, in fact, the barrel and 'cylinder' were an integral unit which swung out of the frame for ejection and reloading. Values for these pistols are in the $40.00 range. Marc


# 2867 - Winchester M1873 Carbine
6/6/00
Walter Gilmer, TX

Winchester - 1873 - 38-40 - 20" - Blue - 335091B -

Marked on barrel by patent dates -Kings Improvement-Has a flip rear sight. Has saddle ring. Has brass block. In checking my books and other limited sources nothing is mentioned about a Kings Improvement. What is this or is it someone that has done some modification of this rifle such as the flip rear sight and brass block which also are not mentioned in any of my sources. By the serial number it was made in 1890 and has about 75% finish remaining with slight rust around the muzzle. Wood has a few mars and dings but overall in good condition. Can you put a value on it with this information?

Answer:
Walter- Nelson King was the superintendent of the Winchester plant in 1866, and his design was incorporated in the 1866 and later model Winchester rifles. These involved loading the tubular magazine through the loading port in the side of the receiver. Previously the tubular magazines on the Henry required the shooter to manually retract the follower spring, twist the front of the magazine cover to the side, drop the cartridges down the magazine and then put the follower back in position. (Anyone who has ever messed with a .22 rimfire tubular magazine knows that while it is better than a single shot, it is still a nuisance.) The brass lifter block is standard on the Model 1873, and various sights were offered, but "King's improvement" refers strictly to the magazine loading design. Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and their values lists this model at $850 in NRA antique good condition and $3,500 in NRA antique fine, and your gun is probably somewhere between the two. John Spangler


# 2866 - Flintlock Pistol- McLay
6/6/00
Bob, Orange, Va., USA

Flintlock Horse Pistol - NA - .60 - 9" - Bright - NA -

Lock is inscribed J McLay under the rounded, fenced, iron pan. Barrel has Tower proofs for Private Contractors (2 crown over crossed scepters)Brass trigger guard, butt plate, open triangular side plate, 2 pipes and ramrod tip. Walnut stock Lock DOES NOT have either a internal or external bridle! Lock plate and reinforced hammer are flat. I believe Mr. McLay, the maker of this well made pistol was located in Glasgow Scotland but I have been unable to date it. If you have any information as to the approximate date of manufacture, I would appreciate any insight.

Answer:
Bob- Thanks for the detailed information, it certainly provides some clues. A photo would have helped even more as pistols evolved over time, just like the trim on automobiles and often helps date them fairly well. James McLay is listed as a gunmaker, cutler and ironmonger at 4 Candlerigs in Glasgow, Scotland as of 1812, based on an entry in Walter M'Feat's Glasgow Directory 1799-1827. This is cited in Charles Whitelaw's "Scottish Arms Makers". The lack of a bridle on the exterior of the lock (an arm extending forward from the pan to hold the head of the frizzen screw) or on the inside (a plate over the tumbler to help keep it centered and having an arm to hold the head of the sear screw) is indicative of either of two things. One is that it is an early gun as these were not commonly found on locks prior to about 1750-1770. After that they were generally used. The other choice is that arms made after both and internal and external bridle were considered standard are generally made cheaply for the lower end of the market. If the gun is otherwise high quality, lack of bridles would tend to indicate it is an early piece. If it is low quality, then one must look for other indications of the age. Of course, there are regional stylistic preferences and fashions changed slowly. Scots have a reputation for being thrifty (sometimes construed to mean backwards- the Scotsman I once worked for certainly was a backward SOB) and perhaps they considered bridles as expensive and unnecessary frills and were slower to adopt them. Hope this helps. John Spangler


# 2805 - Standard Arms Model G Or M
6/6/00
Roger, Emo, Ont, Can

Standard Arms - Pump - .35 - Approx. 20" - Blue - ??? MADE IN 1903 -

Has brass pump and brass butt plate I would like to know the approximate vale of this firearm. Also any additional information would be helpful. How many years they were built and so on. Thanks Standard (Smith)

Answer:
Roger, it sounds like you have a Standard Arms Model G or model M. The Standard Arms Company of Wilmington Delaware manufactured firearms form 1910 to 1912. The Model G is a gas operated semi automatic rifle that can be cycled manually by making use of a hand-grip which is around the cast bronze piston tube with a catch that disconnects the gas system. The Model M is pump action only. The Model G was the first gas-operated auto loading rifle to be manufactured commercially in the Unites States. Standard Arms rifles have a straight wrist buttstock and a square-top receiver which contains an internal hammer. These rifles were never as popular as their contemporary Remington or Winchester rivals because they tended jammed more readily. Total Model G and M production is estimated to be a few thousand. Model G blue book values range from $200 to $475 depending on condition deduct 10% for Model M. Marc


# 2868 - Mauser .22 Training Rifle
6/3/00
Peter, Under, Vic., Australia

BSW Suhl - .22 Long Rifle - 24" - Blue - 164056 -

I have inherited a rifle which appears to be made by BSW, the rifle is a single shot chambered in .22 long rifle, marked as Kal .22 Long Rifle on the barrel. The action has the following marking: Prazilions Karabine (with accents) followed by, BSW, Suhl, with three small stamps on the side of the action. Could you possibly give me some history on the rifle. The rifle has been in my family for about sixty years, as far as I can tell.

Answer:
Peter- I believe that Collector Grade Publications in Canada has a book on Mauser .22 training rifles, but I have not obtained a copy for my library so remain ignorant about this area, among many others. John Spangler


# 2869 - Gewehr 98
6/3/00
Stan, Santa Cruz, CA

Mauser - Xxx98 - 8mm - 28.5 - Blue - 2469 -

WAFFENFABRIKMAUSERA-GXXERNDORF A/K1916 What is the history of this rifle? This a rifle used in WWI?

Answer:
Stan- It sounds like it might be a WW1 German "Gewehr 98" or standard infantry rifle in 8mm Mauser caliber and made by Mauser at their main plant at Oberndorf am Neckar. If the letters are hard to read, or your keyboard skills are not great that is probably what you have. If you accurately reported the markings, then I would tend to think it may be a "Khyber Pass" type copy made by clever and talented craftsmen using the most primitive tools and materials and marked with official looking markings to fool illiterate tribesmen into thinking they were getting the real thing. I believe the Chinese also did some of this sort of work in the pre-WW2 era. John Spangler


# 2883 - MAB Model F
6/3/00
Peter, Burlington, Ontario

MAB WAC - F - .22 - 7" - 2848 -

Brevete pistolet automatique Any information regarding this gun would be appreciated

Answer:
Peter, Manufacture d'Armes de Bayonne (MAB) began business in 1921. From 1940 to 1944 the factory was under German supervision and control. MAB pistols were produced for German military and police use and were marked with the usual German acceptance stamps. After the war, production of commercial pistols was resumed. The MAB model F was introduced in 1950, it was basically the same design as the earlier Mode B except that it had an open-ended slide which could be fitted with barrels of lengths varying from 2.65 to 7.25 inches. Target sights of different degrees of quality, accuracy and complexity could be ordered to suit the purchaser's needs. Model F grips are extremely well raked, this made the pistol easy to point naturally. The Model F was a first-class target automatic when fitted with one of the longer barrels available at a reasonable price. Marc


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