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# 14187 - Gun History Question
7/30/2011
Larry

Luger - P8 - 9mm - 4'' - Blue - 4077 -

This is a WWI Luger dated 1915. I would like to find out who this gun was issued to and his fate. I'm not sure who to contact in Germany.

Answer:
Larry, the model for your pistol is P.08, not P8. We get allot of questions like yours, people think that the military kept detailed records of all firearms, and who they were issued to and the histories of every soldier. I agree that it would be interesting to know the history of military firearms, but as far as I know, no such records exist. Marc


# 14113 - Stevens 425 High Power Production Numbers
7/30/2011
Peter, Cambria, CA

Stevens - 425 High Power - .32 Rem - 22 Inches4837 - Blue - 4837 -

Just want to clear up some misinformation: The firearm books that list the production figure of 26,000 for the Stevens 425 High Power rifle are wrong. All Stevens 425 High Power rifles have only 4-digit serial numbers and no Stevens 425 High Power rifle has yet been found with a serial number lower than 1021 or higher than 5594. We have been researching these scarce rifles for more than 3 years and now have found only 121.

Answer:
Peter- Thanks for the information. Remember, all our free advice comes with a full money back guarantee! John Spangler


# 14186 - Mod 12 6 Gauge
7/26/2011
Steve, Colorado, USA

Winchester - 12 - 6 Gauge - 28'' - Blue - 646790 -

How old it is also, probably its worth/value.

Answer:
Steve, I have never heard of a Winchester Model 12 in 6 Gauge and none of my reference books indicate that there ever was such a thing. If you miss typed and are really asking about a 16 gauge Model 12, records indicate that your shotgun was manufactured in 1931.

Values in the blue book for 16 Gauge Model 12 shotguns range from about $200 to around $800. It has been my experience that collector interest in 16 Gauge shotguns in general is not high, they are often difficult to sell. Marc


# 14112 - Spencer 3 Band Rifle
7/26/2011
Michael Fox E. Wenatchee,WA.

Spenser Rifle - ? Rifle With 3 Barrel Bands - 52 - 30 Inches - Blue - 1075XX -

Spencer Repeating Rifle Co. Boston Mass. Patent March 6,1860 No Model# It's stamped N.M. on the top of the barrel. Fitted for a Bayonet no retrofit all original very good shape with no pitting What Model and what Value

Answer:
Michael- Your rifle was made in 18xx. Value is $xxx. Paranoid people who refuse to provide the full serial number when asking us to spend our valuable time helping them really tick me off. Go buy Roy Marcot’s excellent Spencer book to figure out the model, and buy a Copy of Flayderman’s Guide to Antique American Firearms and Their Values and you can look up the value yourself. Or, you can resubmit with the full serial number on our Q&A form and pay a modest fee for our time to look it up (with full number). Coming from Washington, you probably voted for Obama and think that other people should support all your wants and needs for free anyway. You are lucky I am in a good mood and being as polite as I can, and not showing off some of the language skills picked up hanging around sailors! Use the full serial number or… John Spangler


# 14183 - Marlin 1893 Date And Value
7/23/2011
Don Crowe Winston-Salem, NC

Marlin - 1893 - 32-40 - 28 - Blue - C6551 -

`For black power only` is on the oct. barrel and `Marlin Safety` is on top of the action. The gun is in very good condition. Could you tell me when it was made and the approx. value. Thanks, Don Crowe

Answer:
Don, the problem with giving you a date of manufacture for your rifle is that early Marlin models including the 1881, 1888, 1889, 1891, 1892, 1893, 1894, 1895 and 1897 were all numbered in a single serial number range and numbers were sometimes duplicated. Another hurtle is that the dates in Marlin's records are apparently shipping dates, not the dates that firearms were manufactured. William S. Brophy studied the factory records and came up with an estimate for Marlin dates of manufacture. Brophies book, 'Marlin Firearms: A History of the Guns and the Company That Made Them' is my source of Marlin serial number information.

Unfortunately none of the serial numbers that Brophy complied start with a letter. If we drop your letter prefix and just use the number, the year of manufacture indicated for your rifle serial number, 6551 is 1883.

Values in the blue book for Marlin Model 1893 rifles average between about $350 and $2700 depending on condition. Factory special orders features and / or strong, original case colors in over 95% condition can result in even higher values. Hope this helps, Marc


# 14182 - Stevens Value And Parts
7/23/2011
Jeremiah

Stevens -

I currently have a Stevens Arms model 345 double barrel shotgun. I was wondering about both value and availability of parts for sale. I have searched to my best ability for both with no luck. any help would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
There is little or no collector interest in most Stephens firearms so values for them are very modest. On the retail market they usually sell in the $25-125 range depending on condition and general appearance for use as a "wall hanger".

Sorry but we can't help with parts, if you do find some, the cost will probably be more than the shotgun is worth. If there is any sentimental value or family history connected to the shotgun, you may want to retire it to an honored spot over the fireplace. Please be warned that most of this type of old shotguns are not considered safe to shoot.


# 14111 - Winchester Model 1873 With 18 Inch Barrel
7/19/2011
Jeff

Winchester - 1873? - ?? - 18'' - Blue - 108855A -

Winchester Repeating Arms New Haven Conn. Kings Improvement Patented March 29th 1856, October 16th 1860. The gun has a Hex barrel with a short magazine tube. Behind the hammer is a pop-up peep sight that is post mounted and has a turn adjustment for elevation, I am wondering what year the gun is actually made in. If that peep sight is an original ''extra option'' and what the caliber of the gun is as it is not marked anywhere that I can find on the gun. Also the gun has a turn lock for the lever to stop it from operating but after looking at pictures of guns close to this one I cannot see that on any of them. So I am in a quandary as to what this gun is, if its been a modified gun, and also what the estimated value is on it. The barrel measures 18'' from, the tip to the receiver. Any information will be great because I have no clue what I'm looking at other than an old gun.

Answer:
Jeff- Winchester put the model information for the Model 1873 on the upper tang of the receiver, to the rear of the hammer. It sounds like the “tang sight” is covering the model information. No caliber markings were used on the Model 1873 if they were in the “normal” .44 Winchester Center Fire (.44 WCF) also called .44-40 caliber. Those in .32 WCF or .38 WCF or .22 rimfire caliber were marked on the brass part visible ahead of the lever with the caliber number for easy identification.

So far we have figured out the model and caliber, but that was the easy part. The barrel length can only be verified by getting a “factory letter” from the original Winchester factory records at the Cody Firearms Museum. (http://www.bbhc.org/firearms/records/). It is possible that your gun was made with a special order short barrel length, but my bet would be that some past owner cut it off to suit his own preferences. If it has an original short barrel that increases the value and my guess would be something like $1500-2000. If it is Bubba’s hack saw job, then it is more like $400-800, all depending on condition, of course.

The information I have shows that this was made around 1882, so it is a nice early “western gun.” The latch to lock the lever is standard, and kept the lever and action from wiggling open while being carried.

Hope that helps. John Spangler


# 14181 - Arminius Laser Mount Question
7/19/2011
Audrey Mathis, Texas, USA

ARMINIUS - HW7, 8 shot, Revolver - .22 Long /.22 Short - 4 and 3/4 in - Blue - 199963 -

3 little symbols, the last one has the #67, A man with a winged hat engraved on top next to the barrel and the same man is on a sticker, on the left side next to the handle with the name Arminius on it. Can you please help me find a LASER that will fit on my Gun that I can put the dot on the Snake and shoot. I am female, divorced, and live by the lake with Snakes. I ware Two different Contact Lenses, One far and one near. When I close one eye to line up the target in the sight ''I can see the sights Or the Snake'' but rarely both at the same time. Can you please help me? 361-678- 4257 Thank You..

Answer:
Audrey, I am afraid that I can't help you with your search but I can give a little free advise. Arminius firearms in general have a well deserved reputation for being junk. I think that mounting a laser on one would be a waste of time and money. If you were to find a laser mount that would fit, the mount and laser would probably cost far more than your revolver is worth. My free advise, as always offered with a full money back guarantee, is that you should retire the Arminius and get something with a little better quality. I am sure that if you go to a local gun dealer, they will be able to help find a better firearm that is designed to work with a laser sight. Good luck, Marc


# 14178 - Mauser Broomtail Value
7/16/2011
Darrell

Mauser - Broomtail - Blue - 252494 -

I have a Mauser Pistol Broomtail Serial #252494 with original holster in good condition. What is the value of this weapon?

Answer:
Darrell, the nickname for C-96 Mauser pistols is Broomhandle not Broomtail. From your serial number, it sounds like you have a standard pre-war commercial model. These pistols were chambered in 7.63 Mauser, they came with a 5.5 inch barrel, 10 shot magazine, 34 groove walnut or checkered black rubber grips and usually 50-1,000 meter adjustable rear sight. The serial number range for this variation is 39,000- 274,000 and it the most commonly encountered of all C-96 Broomhandles. My records indicate that your pistol was manufactured between 1911 and 1915.

Values for standard pre-war commercial model Mauser C-96 pistols range from about $350 to over $2000 depending on condition. You did not mention what type of 'original' holster that you have, but value for it can be as high as $500 or more depending on condition and what type of holster it is. If it is the original wooden shoulder stock holster and it has numbers that match the serial numbers of your pistol, the value of the set could be increased by $750 or more, again, depending on condition. Marc


# 14108 - Springfield Armory .22 Caliber M2 Rifle
7/16/2011
Mitch

U.S. Springfield Armory - M2 - 22 - 22.5 Inch - Blue - 20751 -

End of barrel 4-42 What's this gun worth? Great gun It's numbers all match with the original sling It's all there never messed with very original

Answer:
Mitch- Value will vary with condition and any alterations or repairs, or refinishing. Based on your description it sounds like ones I see at gun shows priced around $900-1200. Add a bit more for the sling if it is a good GI sling, but nothing if it is a civilian sling. John Spangler


# 14173 - Winchester Model 55 Value
7/12/2011
MM Clearfield PA

Winchester - 55 Takedown - 30 - Blue - 2388 -

Trying to find an approx value of this rifle, in excellent condition, unused for about 35 yrs, no rust, always in the family, cleaned by a gun expert a yr ago

Answer:
MM, Winchester manufactured over 20000 Model 55 rifles between 1924 and 1932. The design was a lever action with a solid frame, 24 inch round barrel, shotgun style serrated steel buttplate and tubular magazine that only held 3 cartridges. As you are aware, a takedown version was also offered. Models were available chambered in 25-35, .30-30, and .32 Winchester Special. Rifles chambered in 23-35 are the most popular with collectors, the blue book indicates that they are worth twice as much as rifles chambered in 30-30 or 32 Special.

Values in the blue book for Model 55 rifles chambered in 30-30 range from $300 to over $1700, they say to add 20% for takedown models like yours. Marc


# 14099 - Remington-UMC 1911 Pistol
7/12/2011
Major Bob- St-Georges-Québec Canada

Remington-UMC - 1911 - .45 Acp - 5`` - Blue -

I have acquired from a non- collector a Remington-UMC 1911 pistol. It is in a worn original mechanical condition I am in the Canadian military and have high regards for the sacrifice of courageous US soldiers in WW1 alongside our own troops. Should I restore it to a better condition ( springs ,link, bushing ,handguards .. etc... ) or leave it as is in order to maintain collector value ?. I cherish it in honor of our US comrades who again are with us in Afghanistan in yet another just war .Regards Bob

Answer:
Bob- Anyone who wants a .45 auto as a shooter has a wide variety of choices, some at very reasonable prices. I would strongly suggest that you buy a new one that is ready to shoot and leave this one for a collector.

Remington-UMC only made less than 22,000 of the M1911 pistols before production ceased at the end of WW1, so they are highly desirable collector items.

We appreciate your sentiments toward U.S. troops. The contributions and sacrifices made by Canadian forces, especially in the war against Islamic radicals are too little known and appreciated on both sides of our border. John Spangler


# 14079 - Thomas Moxham Chiefs Grade Trade Musket
7/9/2011
Joe, Huntington, Indiana

Thomas Moxham - Chiefs Grade Trade Musket - 0.75'' 12 Gauge? - 37'' - Blue - NONE -

On the Barrel it has a CROWN over GR over Arrow all in the same marking. On the barrel it also has a stamping of a duck. Also, on the barrel it has markings in roman numerals in a squared table, hard to read pretty small. On the lock it has a boar's head stamping at the rear and THOMAS MOXHAM under the hammer. It also has a Crown with crossed scepters on the butt stock. It also has a silver inlay of a Indian Head at the top of the wrist. The side plate has an engraving of a bow and arrow with the arrow pointing down. The trigger guard has an engraved -A- in circle along with a bow and arrow engraving. At rear of the trigger guard it has a very long engraved arrow pointing forward. Where the buttplate comes to the top of the butt stock it has an engraved arrow followed by a boars head. Underneath the cleaning rod it has a VII stamping on the underside stock it looks like roman numerals, with some spacing between the lines that make a V. The side plate, trigger guard and butt plate work appears to brass, the inlay and front sight which both appear to be silver. It has a couple of other markings on the stock, having problems making them out. About twenty years ago I inherited a Thomas Moxham Indian Chiefs musket from my grandfather and was wondering about its rarity, my grandfather received it from my great grandfather in the 1920`s, I have letters that show family ownership back to the 1860`s, just no clue where it originally came from. It has a silver front sight along with the silver Indian bust inlay on top of the wrist. The firearm still has the full stock and is a flintlock. It has numerous markings both engraved and stamped. I was considering on letting the firearm to be on display at local museum so it could be appreciated and was wondering about value for insurance purposes and the generic history of this type of firearm. The Museum in question is for the Miami Indians, mainly Chief Lafontain and Richardville whose treaty house is just 7 miles away.

Answer:
Joe- Sounds like a very nice gun, and some nice family history to go with it, so I hope you will hang on to it. Thomas Moxham died February 17,1837, at the age of 75, having been in the gun making business since at least 1799. His son was a gun maker between 1853 and 1878, but the era of the flintlock trade musket was pretty well over before he got into the business.

I really do not know a lot about Chiefs guns, other than that they were slightly higher grade and more embellished versions of the “Indian trade muskets” which fur traders exchanged with Indians for various furs. While the theory is that they high grade guns were reserved for Chiefs, I suspect that they also were traded to some other select tribal members recognizing their special services or some other favors, or for a bigger pile of pelts.

Flayderman mentions similar guns in his Miscellaneous section at 18-037, with the common feature being a silver inlay on the wrist of the stock with the profile of an Indian with headdress and bow and arrows. He places the value for ones still in flintlock in the several thousand dollar range, and even percussion conversions worth several thousand dollars, but less than the flintlocks. Insure yours accordingly!

The place with the best collection and also best research on this sort of gun is the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, Nebraska. It is way far away from anywhere (in far western Nebraska, about 100 miles south of I-90 or 150 miles north or east of I-80 or I-25). But it is a really great museum, and near the state run Fort Robinson state park (with a very nice museum as well!) which has lots of camping and other vacation options, so you might want to plan a trip out that way. John Spangler


# 14171 - 1946 Luftwaffe Pistol?
7/9/2011
Rick

Parabellum Astra 600 - 1943 Luftwaffe Issue 3yrs.only - 9mm - Not Sure - Blue - NOT SURE -

Could you give me a ballpark value in very good to fine condition?

Answer:
Rick, I have never heard about the Luftwaffe being issued Astra 600 pistols for 3 years. The idea does not make sense to me because the first Astra 600 pistols were assembled in 1943. If you Add 3 years to 1943, it is 1946, WWII is over and the Luftwaffe is in ruins.

The first Fifty Astra 600 pistols were assembled in 1943 as prototypes and test pieces. The design gained approval and between May 16 and July 16 of 1944, a little over ten thousand pistols (10,450) were produced. These pistols were sent to German troops on the French border, who were then occupying France. A short time later an additional 28,000 pistols were sent to the French border, but they could not be delivered because the Germans were evacuating as a result of the Allied D- Day invasion of France. The serial number range of the pistols that were delivered to the Germans was 51-10500.

The German designation for the Astra 600 was Pistole Astra 600/43. German Astra 600/43 pistols did not get a military test proof but they can be recognized because they bear a German acceptance stamp (eagle over WaAD20 or eagle over WaAD251) on the right side of the frame, just above the serial number.

The Astra 600 pistols that collectors have the most interest in are the ones that were in the first batch. the one that was delivered to the Germans. If your pistol falls within the correct first batch serial number range, and it has the correct German markings, value can go as high as $950 or more depending on condition. If your pistol is one of the later ones that could not be delivered to the Germans, value will be in the $450 or less range. If your pistol does have the Markings and you want to sell, let me know, maybe we can work out a deal. Marc


# 14169 - Mod 11 DOM
7/5/2011
Jerry

Remington - 11A - 12 Gauge - Blue - 176862 -

Date of manufacture?

Answer:
Jerry, Remington firearms that were manufactured between 1921 and 1972 have a two or three letter code on the left side of the barrel that can be used to determine the month and year of manufacture. The first letter identifies the month, the other letter or letters identify the year.

If your shotgun has the code on it's barrel, you can follow the Remington Dates of Manufacture link on the OldGuns.net navigation menu and enter it to get your date of manufacture. If your shotgun does not have the code on the barrel, then it has to have been manufactured between the year that the model was introduced (1911) and 1921. Marc


# 14122 - .22 Rifle With ELG Marking
7/5/2011

22 -

I have 22 octatgon barrel rifle. The only markings I have are LEG in a circle with a crown on top, elbow that is a star and X stamp. Any help identify the maker would be great

Answer:
Sir-ELG in an oval is a Belgian proof marking. Many Belgian .22 rifles were made for the export market (mainly to the U.S.) especially in the period 1890-1940 for the "boys' rifle" market. Values are modest at best, and some are not safe to shoot with any modern ammunition. John Spangler


# 14123 - US Military Model 1895 Winchester Carbine
7/2/2011
Mark

Winchester - Model 1895 Carbine - : 30-40 Krag - 22 -

I recently purchased a Winchester Model 1895 SRC with U.S. on top of receiver. No other military markings or cartouches. Tell me more.

Answer:
Mark- Let me be sure you understand that this answer applies to Model 1895 Winchester lever action rifles which are marked with a large "US" on the receiver ring, about 5/16" high, and NOT to any that are marked ".30 US." The latter marking simply identifies the caliber as what is commonly called the .30-40 Krag today, but was known as ".30 U.S. Army" circa 1894-1910.

During the Spanish American War the Army ordered 10,000 Model 1895 "muskets" with 30 inch barrels, which were delivered at the end of 1898 and the first weeks of January 1899. 100 of these were subsequently sent to the Philippines where they were used in the field by the 33rd U.S. Volunteer Infantry, receiving little praise and the sentiment was that the Krag was much to be preferred.

Those 100 rifles were sold to a surplus dealer. The remaining 9,900 eventually were sold to another dealer, and in 1906 sold to Cuba, and later they were sold to Mexico, so surviving examples are generally in pretty poor condition.

Collectors have noted the existence of Model 1895 carbines with 22 inch barrels and the US marking on the receiver ring, but no documentary evidence has been found to confirm when they were ordered, by whom or for what use. According the Bruce Canfield's "Winchester in the Service" it is estimated that about 100 of the carbines were made (compared to the 10,000 of the muskets). Canfield notes that the carbines had the same sight as the musket, graduated to 1800 yards, but I cannot confirm that is accurate.

The muskets covered a broad range of numbers, including 12,000-17,000 and probably to numbers higher and lower than that range. Therefore I believe that your serial number of 10,352 may well be near the beginning of the range of U.S. marked arms.

Winchester reportedly had problems getting their early production musket accepted by Army Ordnance inspectors. Apparently the bureaucrats were miffed that the Secretary of the Army had given the contract directly to Winchester without going through the “normal” channels." Many early arms were rejected by inspectors before Winchester demanded that they write down the specific reasons for rejecting each of the next 10 arms not accepted, and that the President of Winchester would personally deliver those to the Secretary of the Army for his personal inspection. This threat worked and subsequent ispections rejected almost no arms. Inspector markings of KSM (Kelly S. Morse) are found on many parts of the muskets, including the lever, the buttplate tang, hammer and some other parts.

Although strictly my own personal speculation, I believe that carbine serial number 10,352 may be one of the contract arms which had been rejected by inspectors, and altered to carbine configuration which were much better sellers for the civilian market, and sold at discount prices in commercial trade. The lack of any official mention of the carbines in Army records suggests that they were not officially purchased or used by the Army.

The Winchester factory records at the Cody Firearms Museum may have records on this carbine which may reflect the configuration and date of shipment, and number of arms in the shipment.

I hope this information is helpful. John Spangler


# 14168 - Silver Kriegsmarine Mauser (Too Bad)
7/2/2011
Germany, Oberndorf am Neckar

Mauser - D.R.P.uA.P...? - Cal 7,65 - 6.1 - Stainless Steel - 523791 -

Eagle on the part above the wooden handle, Swastika under it, and then the letter M What do I have? It may be called a pocket gun? The marking makes me think it is from around 1940 but the serial number seems come from earlier, when that marking was not done. And it should have an N, not M best I can figure. What do I have (it is WW 2 German, that I know)

Answer:
It sounds like you have an early German Kriegsmarine (navy) Model 1934 Mauser. These pistols were marked on the left hand side with eagle over Swastika over the letter 'M'. They should also have 'N' or 'O' property numbers engraved on front strap and magazine, and crown over 'U' commercial proofs up to about serial number 576000. Higher serial number pistols will have eagle over 'N' commercial proofs on the slide behind the rear sight and on the side barrel retaining lug.

Your pistol should also have the following markings and characteristics:

  • High-polish hot salt blue finish.
  • Left side markings:
    • Mauser banner on the side plate.
    • 'MAUSER-WERKE A.G. OBERNDORF A. N'
    • Full serial number in slide slot.
  • Right side markings:
    • 'Cal. 7.65 D.R.Pu.A.P.'
  • Last three digits of serial number should marked on the:
    • Barrel
    • Rear of frame
    • Side plate
  • The Magazine should have a round front floor plate with the Mauser banner.

As you can see above, the correct finish is for this pistol salt blue but you indicate that your pistol is stainless steel. Since they were not making pistols out of stainless steel in WWII, your pistol probably has no finish left, or it has been nickel or chrome plated. I am sorry to have to tell you that any of these three possibilities is bad. Value for pistols that do not have original finish is less than half what it would be for a pistol that does. Marc


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