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# 4316 - Civil War Enfield Rifles 9/29/01 Paul Richmond, VA
Regarding Civil war Enfield rifles, used by both the North and the South, my question is this: Were any British's Crown Marks on the barrels or the stocks of Enfield rifles? Also on the bottom of the barrel, why did they have an anchor proof mark? Thank you for your interest. Paul
Answer: Paul- The subject of authenticating Confederate usage of Pattern 1853 Enfields is somewhat controversial. There are a number of well qualified experts in the Richmond area who could evaluate a gun for you. Try the Richmond Fairgrounds gun show (Great Southern Weapons Fair). The best references are William Edwards Civil war Guns, and Jim Whisker's book on Imported Firearms of the Civil War (I don't recall the exact title pretty close to that). An outfit in PA had a good piece on CS imported guns on line a few years ago, but I am not sure their site is still in operation. (Apparently they had some very shady business practices that got them kicked off the Antiques Road show, and sued and etc.). About as many P1853s were used by the North as by the South, and it is always a mystery to me why such an overwhelming percentage of the guns on the marked are proclaimed to be CS rather than US used, and I do not recall ever seeing one listed as having stayed in British service until post-CW times and sold as surplus. John Spangler
# 4269 - Model 1917 Eddystone "Sniper Rifle" 9/29/01 Charles, Fort Worth, Texas
1917 Enfield - Eddystone - .30 - See Description - Original (I Think) - 227971 -
Gun is 100% and I believe the finish to be original after the modification that I will describe. Barrel markings: W at end with a - through it then the bomb proof and then 11-18, barrel has been cut to 24" just about 1/4 inch before the W. No front sight present. Bottom of barrel markings: at about the end of the bore, a small 6 then a large P a little further down the barrel, a little further than middle way, MNS then an arrowhead, then a encircled VP, and then a G. Action: W2 on the bottom of the front lug, on the bottom of the receiver: SA, 4B, S5, 8R8, W1, 5B, 11, All marked parts are marked with the typical E other than the barrel. The trigger is an original Eddystone, but has been altered to a single stage by the first stage being brazed so it sets in the second stage. The stock does not even have a blemish and is oil finished. There is no pitting anywhere on the gun and the finish is 100%. The barrel rifling and bore are like a mirror. The rear sight has been removed and the protective wings have been removed and there was an oval shaped hole after the removal which was filled by another piece of metal and shaped so you can hardly tell it was there. The rifle has a set of Bausch & Lomb mounts that say Spring. Enfield on the side. The scope is a Bausch & Lomb Balvar probably 1-4X, unknown because the magnifications are not marked, and the reticule is a post. I assume this was somebody's attempt at trying to fake a sniper rifle, or just make it so they could hunt with glass optics. I can provide high quality photographs if you would like. The guy I bought it from knew nothing about it other than the fact he says it isn't worth anything due to it being altered and is not collectable. I had another old guy at a range gasp and made reference to a 1917 Marine Sniper. I am not a collector and just got it to shoot, but I am curious if the gentleman at the range new what he was talking about. I cannot find any reference to any P-17's being converted to sniper rifles, only 1903's. Thank you
Answer: Charles- The guy at the range did not know what he was talking about. They guy who sold it to you did. One or maybe two Model 1917 rifles were made into prototype sniping rifles with a special telescope and mount and stock, etc. As far as I know, none survive today in any museum or private collection. 99% of all military rifles with telescopes around today are regular rifles that someone added a scope to for deer hunting. This generally cuts the value and demand among collectors drastically. With the number of hunters steadily declining, most of these can be had pretty cheaply. While probably mostly good useful guns, they range from grotesque folk art conversions to beautiful examples of the gun maker's art with prices appropriate to the quality of the conversion. John Spangler
In a box with the text: United States Constitution Amendment II". . . The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". It has been fired sometimes, but is in good condition. It is a small piece missing in the grip. Hi! Tried all the Internet to find a similar gun. It seems not to be a very usual one. I have not been able to find it anywhere. Can you please tell me what it's worth? Regards Kenth S.
Answer: Kenth, greetings to Sweden from Utah. You have a Colt 1977 2nd Amendment .22 commemorative revolver. Blue book values for these commemoratives in un-fined new condition with the original box and papers is in the $400 range. Value in the USA for an example like yours with some problems, that has been fired would be under $200. I do not know what one would bring in Sweden. Marc
# 4253 - Cooper Revolver 9/26/01 Greg, Carroll, Iowa
Cooper Firearms MFG. Co - Black Powder Revolver - 36 - 4" ? ? ? - Blued - COULD NOT FIND -
Marked Cooper Firearms MFG Co Frankford Phila, PAPAT Jan 7, 1851 April 25, 1854Sept 4, 1860 Sept 1, 1863Sept 22, 1863 Was this a common gun used in the Civil War? I would like to know where I can find any info available about the gun or the manufacture.
Answer: Greg- Probably the most readily available source of information is Flayderman's Guide To Antique American Firearms and their Values. The Cooper revolvers were used to a small extent in the Civil War as privately purchased arms, but were reasonably well made and serviceable for combat. More likely they saw more use ensuring adherence to rules in camp card games or convincing uncooperative civilians along the line of march that it would be a very patriotic idea to donate generously of their food and firewood to passing troops. We recently had an inquiry from a descendent of the maker looking for an example of these revolvers. Please check our "wanted" page and contact him if you would consider selling it. John Spangler
Remington - Matchmaster 513 SA - .22 - 26" - Blue - 113227 -
K YY at the back end of the barrel I can't seem to find any information on this exact model number. The rifle is in mint shape. It has a sporter, checkered stock, but is also has the globe front and Redfield rear aperture. Both appear to be factory installed. Under the pistol grip there is a Parker Hale brass holder that contains different inserts for the globe sight. I believe this has been added later. Any thoughts on the rifle? (I paid $100 Canadian for it. )
Answer: The Remington Model 513T "Matchmaster" Target Rifle was first introduced in May of 1940 as a moderately priced alternative to Remington's more expensive Model 37 "Rangemaster" rifle. The 513T was designed had a special target-style short firing pin travel with adjustable trigger stop, heavy twenty seven-inch semi-floating target barrel, a full target-style pistol-grip stock with beavertail forend, adjustable front sling swivel, and a six-shot detachable box magazine. Sights were Redfield globe front sight with seven interchangeable discs and a Redfield Number 75 micrometer rear. Weight was nine pounds. Model 513T barrels were marked "MATCHMASTER MODEL 513-T".
The lighter weight six pound, twelve ounce sporter grade of the Model 513 series was the 513S and later the 513SA. 513 sporter rifles had the same components as the Model 513T except that the barrel was tapered, the stock was a checkered streamlined sporting type with screw eyes for sling swivels. The sights were a partridge type ramp front with step adjustable barrel mounted rear. Barrel markings were initially "MATCHMASTER MODEL 513-S" and later "THE MATCHMASTER MODEL 513 SA". I used the OldGuns.net Remington date of manufacture page located at http://oldguns.net/snpgm/remdates.htm to determine that the "K YY" markings on your barrel indicate that your rifle was manufactured in May of 1952. A total of 13,677 Remington Model 513 S and SA rifles were manufactured between 1939 and 1956.
Without a thorough examination of your rifle, it is hard to say what you have, it would have helped to know whether your barrel is tapered or not. Your rifle's "Matchmaster 513 SA" markings are consistent with a sporter rifle, but the sights are the 513T target type. My guess, taking into consideration the brass holder in the stock, is that you have an after market customization. Marc
# 4324 - Oddball Rimfire cartridge? 9/26/01 Mark
Hey Guys, A state trooper friend of mine gave me what appears to be a rimfire cartridge to identify for him. By the way, this was a personal request not police related. Anyway, I can not find anything that matches my references and I am turning to you for help with the I.D. or directions to a source where I might find info. The headstamp in a 3,6,9,12 configuration and is as follows:
R 6 81 F
Neck Diam. 0.4687 in Base Diam. 0.5000 in Rim Diam. 0.6093 in Case Length. 2.0937 in
These are pretty close. Also, just above the base there are indentations on either side. They look like something was used to extract the cartridge from somewhere, but they are smooth and uniform. They look like they belong there.
Answer: Mark- Glad to help law enforcement officials anytime we can. Cops don't get paid nearly enough for all the fine work they do, and for the amount of crap they have to put up with from the perps, judges and lying lawyers. Just remind him, if he sees a minivan with Utah plates, point his radar gun somewhere else for a while. Your case is NOT a rimfire, although it would be natural to assume it is. From your EXCELLENT description we can positively identify it as a .45-70-405 rifle cartridge manufactured at Frankford Arsenal in June of 1881. (Sorry, we don't know which day.) The headstamp pattern used from about 1875-1914 usually included the month and last two digits of the year, and a manufacturer identification. Rifle or carbine ammunition was designated by R or C on the headstamp. (Remember, the .45-70 carbine load was actually 45-55-405, with 55 grains of powder instead of the 70 grain charge used in the rifles. Since both used the 405 grain bullet, they looked the same. About 1882 they switched to a longer 500 grain bullet for the rifles, making it easy to tell them apart and eliminating the need for R or C in the headstamp. Manufacturer codes included F for Frankford Arsenal and later contractors from Lowell (run by Winchester) and Bridgeport (Union Metallic Cartridge Co.) were used, identified by L or B. You must admit, headstamp reading is pretty easy if you know what to look for.
So why does it look like a rimfire when the .45-70 was a centerfire? Numerous innovative ideas were tried to perfect a centerfire primer when it was realized that the rimfire cartridge's dependence on a thin, soft rim to detonate the priming charge also contributed to extraction problems and was a weak point that limited the pressures that could be attained safely in a cartridge. Several "internal primed" designs were tried. The U.S. military adopted one by Colonel Steven Vincent Benet which was used for most U.S. military centerfire ammunition up to about 1882 when they switched to the familiar "Boxer" type primer in order to save some money by reloading ammunition at army posts for target practice. Benet's primer used a case that looked like a rimfire, but with a stronger "solid" head where the rim was solid metal instead of a thin folded section. A "cup anvil" made of copper with the priming mixture in the recessed cup in the center was pressed down inside the case to rest up against the head of the case. The sides of the case were staked to hold the inside primer in place. The firing pin would hit the center of the case and dent the case, crushing the priming powder against the cup anvil in the inside of the case, firing the cartridge. The internal primer also eliminated any waterproofing problems associated with early attempts at external center fire primers. Steven Vincent Benet should be a familiar name, as the author of "John Brown's Body" and other poems. Col. Benet was Commanding Officer of Frankford Arsenal in 1868, and although he had a literary bent, and read poetry to his children, it was his son, born July 22, 1898 who achieved fame as a poet (and his three other children were also writers or poets.) Guess the old Colonel wasn't shooting blanks even at an advanced age. John Spangler
# 4238 - 1816 Musket Conversion By Frankford Arsenal 9/22/01 Edwin, Mississippi
Springfield - 1816 - 69 - 42" - Armory Bright -
I know what I have, but I need documentation on the weapon. It is a Frankford Arsenal Conversion of the Model 1816, using the patent breech method. It is still in Smoothbore and was one of the few fitted with a rear sight. I am looking for a source book on the weapon. I know that it was converted in 1859 from the bolster date stamp. Your help would be appreciated.
Answer: Edwin- Sounds like them damn Yankees done littered up the Magnolia State when they went through there, or the locals took offense and disarmed the trespassers! I am not quite sure what you have, as most collectors believe that Frankford Arsenal conversions were the ones made using the Manyard tape primer locks provided by Remington, mostly dated 1856-58. However there was a frenzy of work on M1816 smoothbore .69 caliber muskets between about 1855 and 1862. In the pre [Civil] War period the federal government systematically graded all the old arms in its arsenals, accounting for the initials and number 1, 2 or 3 found on many along with the cartouches from when they were first made. As funds permitted, the best arms were converted to percussion, and many rifled. Some of those rifled were also fitted with rear sights, while some were not. I am not sure I have ever heard of one that had a fancy rear sight installed that was not also rifled, so you may have a rarity. However, the rifling used was very broad and very shallow so it is possible that unless you put a bore light down the barrel, you may have missed it. (There is a tiny Maglite flashlight that uses a AAA battery that is great for anything above .50 caliber muskets, and I would never buy a musket without checking the bore with it first. Especially after having seen two high dollar Civil War muskets that had barrels that had been cut off and then "stretched" by welding new pieces on the front! Looked like a $$$$ gun on the outside, but not when you checked inside. I have always wondered if the sellers were crooks, or victims themselves.) Anyway, after the start of the Civil War many states let contracts to local sources to convert old flintlock muskets to percussion, rifle them and sight them, or do other repairs or alterations, so the M1816s can be found in many odd configurations. Of course, post- Civil War surplus merchants and various owners over the last 140 years may have further mixed, matched, or buggered the guns. Two of the best references on these sorts of arms are Robert M. Reilly's U.S. Military Small Arms 1816-1865 and William B. Edwards' Civil War Guns. After that you will have to dig into periodicals like Man at Arms or Gun Report or The American Rifleman. Hope this helps. John Spangler
# 4124 - Meridean Model 10 9/22/01 Jeff, Killen, Al
Meriden - Mod 10 - 22 - Singleshot -
An older gentleman asked me if I could find out some info on this gun he recently inherited from his brother. After three hours of searching on the internet anything would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
Answer: In the early 1900's, Winchester stopped selling firearms to Sears and Roebuck's discount mail order house because they considered Sears discounting of prices to be demoralizing all firearms prices and causing general discontent in the trade. Most firearm manufacturing companies at the time agreed with Winchester, but only Winchester took any type of action. In November of 1904, Winchester announced that it would no longer sell to the Sears and Roebuck Company and they cancelled all unfilled orders. The Meriden Fire Arms Company was started by Sears and Roebuck's because of the Winchester's refusal to sell firearms to them.
The Meriden Model 10 was first listed in the Sears and Roebuck Spring 1910 catalog priced at $2.19. The Model 10 was made on a rolling block action with a color case hardened frame of malleable iron, a 22" barrel, and a walnut forearm and butt stock. The Meriden Model 10 was discontinued in 1917. Marc
# 4245 - Hamilton 027 Rifle 9/22/01 Matt, Brunswick, Ohio
C. J. Hamilton & Son - THEHAMILIONRIFLE No.027 - .22 - 16 Inch - Blue - NONE -
Patented Oct. 30 1900-Aug.13, 1907 Plymouth, Mich. USA I am having trouble finding out information about this rifle. It belonged to my Grandfather, I believe when he was a small boy.
Answer: Matt- These rifles are typical of a variety known to collectors as "Boys' Rifles" and your Grandpa and all his friends had guns like this when they were 10-12 years old, and probably sometimes took them to school to hunt, plink or shoot rats on the way home. Probably more kids died from food poisoning or measles than from accidental gunshots. Of course, the liberals in the teachers union and other misguided souls have convinced everyone that every gun is evil and that children under the age of 95 should NEVER be allowed to see one (except in a harmless MTV video glorifying cop killing, rape and general misconduct). Perhaps our schools have changed some since your Grandpa was a kid. Hope they don't get much worse or everyone who cares about the future of their kids will have to choose between paying off their growing tax bills or staying home to teach their kids something more important than Heather has two Mommies (out of a Million?). Hamilton made several varieties of Boys rifles, and we have gone into detail on them before, so you can find out more by using the search tool at the top left of our main page to look that up. John Spangler
# 4241 - Trapdoor Springfield .45-70 Rifle 9/18/01 Grant Adelaide South Australia
BOLT;US Model 1873, BARREL;(45, VPsymbol, P, symbol bird? , P)on the flat in front of bolt larger 45, Rear sight marked on side 1234, fold up ladder 1-11, LOCK; US SPRINGFIELD with eagle, Barrel bands have a U stamped on them, STOCK; stylized P behind trigger guard, on the wrist a rectangle with SWP? 1883, butt plate has US stamped in front of the top screw, metal trigger guard with a ridged trigger. Hi guys, you answered a question about my relations pistol recently, thanks. Also thanks to you guys there is now a new collector out there, me. What great enjoyment in finding these old guns and getting them out of sheds and looking after them. Could you tell me anything about this rifle, its in all original condition except for surface rust as it has been in the last owners shed for as long as he can remember and he is eighty. He bought it back in about 1930 to shoot water buffalo's in the Northern Territory. Its really handy being a pest controller (termites) as you get to see lots of interesting things in peoples out buildings, most of them are happy to try and give away these old bits of junk, just can't accept, I always try and pay a fair price. $200 for this one is that OK Kind regards Grant
Answer: Grant- Hope you enjoy gun collecting as much as we do, although your options are now severely limited by your stupid politicians who insist on disarming law abiding citizens, er, SUBJECTS. Worse, our stupid (and sometimes also crooked, lying, no-good) politicians think your idiots had a good idea! As you probably know, your rifle is a standard infantry model. The best available research shows no history on this specific rifle, although many with nearby serial numbers were used by various volunteer units in the Spanish American War and presumably also in the Philippine Insurrection shortly thereafter. It is possible your rifle got close to Australia during those events and strayed or stayed then, or maybe it was shipped there by one of the surplus dealers much later. I guess every job has its good points and bad points. My favorite job was in Puerto Rico where I got to conduct Naval Gunfire Support and air to ground bombing exercises by U.S. and Allied forces. John Spangler
# 4232 - Colt SAA Missing Person Case 9/18/01 Sarah
Colt - Single Action - 45 - Blue -
pearl handles gold plated trigger , hammer, single action western style one of a limited edition It was purchased new from sporting goods store in Waycross, Ga. in the early 1960`s. It came in a white wooden box lined in velvet. I do not have the serial number. Question, how many of these were made? Is there a way to determine the serial for this gun. I know who originally purchased it new. I hope you can be of some help. My son Terry Rouse disappeared on May 10, 1991, and has not been seen or heard from since, and I have reason to believe the colt 45 might have been in his possession. If the gun were to be pawned or located it could possible help locate Terry. Information about Terry can be viewed on the Georgia Bureau of Investigation listed under missing person Terry Rouse.
Answer: Sarah- We really wish we could help you learn something that might in some small way help you solve this anguishing mystery. Unfortunately your description could apply to several models as well as fancy finished standard guns. Even with a serial number finding the present location of a specific gun would be nearly impossible, but without the serial number I think it is truly impossible. With the possibility that it may have been pawned and sold almost any time in the last ten years, anywhere in the U.S., the haystack gets much large and the needle even more tiny. There is no central repository of information showing current location of guns by serial number, or of those recently sold. Even though it may be helpful in rare, tragic circumstances like yours, the possibility of such information being misused poses such a huge threat to the right to keep and bear arms that gun owners must constantly be alert to defeat any proposal to establish such a listing. With thousands of missing persons every year, only a few cases are solved. Some have chosen to vanish and assume a new identity, but sadly most are probably victims of accidents or criminal acts. Better enforcement of existing laws against violent criminals of all sorts would save the lives of innocent victims in the future. John Spangler
Pistolet Automatique Cal. 7.65m. "Audax" Marque Deposee Grips are black plastic with AUDAX written on them I would like to find out about this gun. It looks to be French. It came from the estate of a vet, but this doesn't look to me to be a wartime manufactured pistol (plastic grips instead of Bakelite? ). I also see no waffenampts to show that it was built under German occupation. The holster was leather with a spare clip holder. . . very German-like. The finish is nickel. I don't have the serial number with me right now. Thanks!
Answer: Blake, Manufacture de Pyrdndes is the manufacturer of Audax pistols. Manufacture de Pyrdndes was founded in 1923, they are most well known for their "Unique" model pistols which were based on/copied from Browning designs. The Audax was manufactured from 1931 to 1939, for sale by Cartoucherie Franqaise of Paris in 6.35mm and 7.65mm. The 7.65mm version that you are inquiring about is really just a slight modification of the standard 'Unique' model with an odd bulge at the bottom rear of the butt strap to improve the grip. Audax pistols are marked 'Pistolet Automatique Cal 7.65 (or 6.35mm) Audax Marque Depose Fabrication Franqaise' on the slide, with the word 'Audax' on the grip. Although the Unique pistol was manufactured for the Wehrmacht under German occupation, the Audax was not. There is not much collector interest in Audax pistols, value is in the $100 range. Marc
# 4105 - H&R Parts & Repairs 9/15/01 Rodger
H & R Arms Company - The American Double Action - .32 S & W - 2 inch - Nickel? ? - 87364 or possibly 37364 -
When was it Manufactured? The cylinder rod and grips are missing. Any suggestions how I would go about replacing the missing items. Could a gunsmith or machinist make a replacement cylinder rod? This is a family heirloom that would never be fired. It is not in very good condition but I would like to replace the rod and grips for display purposes. This looks like a rather inexpensive pocket pistol that may have been widely sold. Could you suggest areas I should search to purchase a similar model for parts?
Answer: Rodger, you are correct in your assumption that these were originally inexpensive revolvers. This type of revolver is generally considered to fall into the suicide special category. There is not a lot of collector interest and not a lot of information available. I was only able to find that H&R started American Double Action production in the late 1800's.
Any competent gunsmith or machinist should be able to fabricate a cylinder rod for you and possibly even a set of replacement grips but the cost to have this work done will probably be prohibitive. One solution could be to make the grips and rod yourself. If you have a power drill, a file, and too much free time on your hands, you could fabricate a replacement cylinder rod from a bolt of approximately the correct diameter and length. You could trace the pattern of your grip frame on old pieces of scrap wood and try your hand at whittling a set of replacement grips. If you intend to keep the revolver for display only as a family heirloom, the tolerances and fit of your rod and grips would not have to be too accurate and the story of how you fabricated the replacement parts from scrap wood and old bolt would be a colorful addition the revolver's history.
If the prospect of fabricating your own replacement parts does not appeal to you, I think that your idea of purchasing a similar model for replacement parts is a good one. I suggest that you start looking at local pawnshops and gunshows. You can also try posting on the OldGuns.net free Militaria And Gun Wanted List. Good Luck! Marc
Stamped: Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891 Deutsche Waffen - Und Munitionsfabrikek Berlin Also has the shaking hands stamp. The individual I got this rifle from did not remember what caliber it is, but said he thought it was 7.65. I took it to a local gun dealer who told me it was 7.62 x 45mm, but he did no measurements on it. I have read that most 1891 Mausers were 7.65 x 53(54)mm. I measured the muzzle and it is 7.66mm. Could you tell me what caliber this rifle is.
Answer: Dave- We can state with certainty that your rifle was originally made in 7.65 Argentine caliber which you have correctly identified as 7.65x53 or 7.65x54. The bad news is that many have been converted to .308 Winchester in recent years, and with about 110 years of time passing since manufacture, any number of possible alterations could have taken place by unknown persons for unknown reasons. Do not attempt to shoot it until you have it checked by someone competent to do so. (Your dealer's competence does not impress me, but maybe he is just a whole lot smarter than us and does not need to measure anything.) Most I have seen are still in 7.65, but just like most lottery tickets have losing numbers, the only one that matters is the one you have. John Spangler
marked BNP under a crown is all over the gun, 38 caliber model 767 ( on left side) marked 3 1/2 tons, bottom of handle is handwritten in some orange P? or B? 47on right side is stamped ENGLANDDI stamped on right side two crossed swords on right side serial # ZF640120 wonder what the value is and/or what history the gun might have i.e. year and use? Know BNP is British national party, but that is all.
Answer: Jan- You may be correct that BNP means British National Party, and I am sure that Bartholomew Newton Picklesnapper has BNP proudly marked on his luggage. However, in this case I suspect that BNP refers to British Nitro Proof. Under British Law guns cannot be shipped out of the country, and perhaps not even sold in the United Kingdom, without being "proof tested" for safety. Modern guns using smokeless powder would thus be marked to indicate that they passed the "British Nitro Proof" test. I am not familiar with a Model 767 Colt, and if the marking is near the BNP 3 « ton markings, it probably refers to the cartridge used, having a .767 inch long case. The "ENGLAND" marking was probably not required by our recently disarmed British cousins (now experienced a huge surge in armed criminal assaults from thugs confident that victims are defenseless). Rather, U.S. law requires that imported goods be marked with the country of origin, and occasionally guns are marked incorrectly reflecting where they came from most recently, rather than where they were actually produced. In any case, I suspect that this is not a high dollar collector piece. Check to make sure it is unloaded, then pull the trigger. If pulling the trigger pulls the hammer back and then drops it, your gun is what is called a "double action" and most likely not very valuable. If pulling the trigger does not cock the hammer then it is what is called a "single action" and it may have some pretty good collector value. (Note that double action guns can also be manually cocked like single action guns, but that does not count.) John Spangle
My Father received an old extremely small pistol from someone when he was 14 or 15. That was over 40 years ago. I now have it and it really looks like a toy. But with a closer look you can see it has a hollow, steel barrel and a gap to put the bullet in. The caliber seems to be .177 (4.5mm) So far I do think bullets that size exist? This gun has a manual drawback hammer. Like old western revolvers. When the trigger is pulled it comes back, Hitting the back side of the barrel. This little gun looks like a toy, 007 gun. But I think there is some real truth to it. The barrel seems to be real. And if bullets of that size existed. I think it would fire. On the Grip, on each side is a Symbol which has circle and in it marked "HS". above that on the right side it says, "Made in Germany" There is no serial number or any further, helpful readings. The steel barrel, trigger and internal, mechanical parts of the gun are covered in some sort of plastic or porcelain? I am not certain what it is. This gun remains a mystery.
Answer: Nick- Sorry, we cannot do much more than guess on this one. Markings "Made in Germany" suggest that it was made after 1898 when U.S. law began requiring country of origin to be marked on imported goods. While there are a few obscure cartridges below .22 caliber that exist, it is more common to find .177 caliber to be associated with air guns which shoot round steel pellets (BB's) or lead shot, or funny shaped lead bullets/pellets. It is also possible that it may be intended for use with a .22 caliber blank cartridge, and the .177 bore allows the gas to escape but precludes use with .22 caliber ball ammunition. It is possibly a toy, or possibly something intended for indoor recreational shooting or ???? I am sure someone would know what it is, but not us. You might want to check with the bureaucrats running the Canadian gun registration and licensing scheme to clarify if you need any special paperwork, permission, of payment to possess this thing. I would insist on getting their answer in writing if they say nothing is required, as the next idiot to take the job may have different opinions and want to throw you in jail as some sort of dangerous criminal for failing to comply with stupid laws. John Spangler
# 4206 - Flobert Action 9/11/01 John Nashville TN.
C B Schop & CS - none - 32 - 24 inches - possibly blued - not sure -
BELGIUM ELGMarkings - Brevetes under the name C B SCHOP & CS -3G on receiver-3P9 on barrel. - Has the numbers 6193 on receiver I recently purchased this rifle, I was told it was a FLOBERT rolling block style but can't find a FLOBERT that looks like it. The rifle has a straight stock and smooth bore, I would appreciate any help you can give me in learning what this gun is .
Answer: John- The Flobert action was a very simple "rolling block" type action intended ONLY for use with very low powered cartridges (mainly .22 rimfire black powder cartridges.) I do not have any good photos to share, but these were sold through Sears Roebuck catalogs in the early 1900s and probably other mass markets. John Spangler
# 4098 - Higgins M85 9/11/01 Jay, Roanoke, VA
J. C. Higgins - Model 85 - 22LR 590.850 - 4-1/4 - Blue - 520632 -
Made in France. Manufacture D'Armes Des Pyrenees F ses - Hendaye590.850 I just inherited a few guns and was wondering if I could get some info on this one. Never heard of it. Any idea on the value? Also, the grips are cracked. Any ideas where I could pick up a set?
Answer: Jay, J. C. Higgins is a trade name of Sears, Roebuck & Company that they used on firearms made by various manufacturers. Although I searched for J.C. Higgins models 85 and 590.850, I was unable to find any specific information on this particular firearm. For replacement grips, I suggest you try Gun Parts Corp (there is a link to them on our links page) or try posting a request on the free OldGuns.net wanted page. It has been my experience that firearms with the J. C. Higgins trade name always have a significantly lower value then comparable models by the original manufacturer. There is a good chance that you will end up paying more for the grips than the firearm is worth. Marc
# 4214 - Leland, Augusta, Maine Musket 9/8/01
LM Leland Augusta Maine Can you tell us anything at all about this musket?
Answer: Sir- Since you told us nothing abut the gun itself, I will not attempt to guess what it might be. However, Frank Sellers' "American Gunsmiths" identifies Larkin M. Leland who live 1811-1894 as working in Augusta, Maine from 1836-1871, and as Leland and Brooks circa 1836-1860. Larkin was the son of Moses Leland who made guns in Sherborn, Massachusetts circa 1800-1830. Dwight Demeritt's "Maine Made Guns and their Makers" would have more information and you can probably get your local library to request a copy on interlibrary loan. John Spangler
# 4218 - BSA Model 1917 Enfield 9/8/01 Al, Airway Heights, WA
BSA - P-17 Enfield - 30.06 - last 4# 8515 -
Has a BSA emblem and says made in England on the rear of the receiver. On the left side it says 30.06 2.50 nc 41gr 220 bullet along with several inspector marks bv, bp, np with crowns above them. All serial #'s match. Has bv on bolt handle. Just curious what you could tell me about it. Done some research but unable to find anything on BSA P-17 Enfields. Thanks
Answer: Al- Most likely your rifle was a military rifle converted to a sporter and sold by the famous English firm of Birmingham Small Arms, who also makes dangerous mechanical devices that kill many people every year- motorcycles. As far as I know, BSA never made ANY Pattern 1913, Pattern 1914 or Model 1917 rifles from scratch. The markings sound like typical British proof markings on commercial arms. BSA has also made some very nice sporting arms on Mauser style actions, presumably also salvaged from military rifles. In my opinion your rifle has no collector interest or value, although it may be a nice shooter. I note you only provided the last four digits of the serial number. Even though the full number probably would not have provided anything useful, I have a personal problem with paranoid people who want us to spend our valuable time sharing our knowledge (or doing research for them) and do not even have the courtesy to provide a full serial number. (Staples in carpet and scotch tape left on things after people take stuff down. also irritate me.) John Spangler
# 4268 - HD-Military Information 9/8/01 Steve, Miami, FL,
When was it made, how much was cost new, and what is it worth today? ? ? Thank you in advance Steve
Answer: In 1943 the U.S. Army issued High Standard a contract for the production of their Model HD pistol in slightly modified form as the USA-HD for use as training and recreational weapons. High Standard manufactured USA-HD pistols until the end of the war in 1945. Development of the HD-Military began in 1944, the only change needed to adapt the USA-HD for the civilian market was the addition of an adjustable sight and to offer the choice of 4 1/2 or 6 3/4-inch barrels. Main production of the HD-Military began around serial number 147000 in early 1946 and continued well into the early 50s. Pieces are seen with serial numbers well over 300000, estimated HD-Military production was over one hundred fifty thousand. The year of manufacture for pistol serial number 203539 is 1947. Values for High Standard pistols rose sharply when the company went out of business in 1984 but lately demand seems to have leveled off or even decreased. Blue book values for HD-Military military pistols range from about $150 to $700 depending on condition. Marc
# 4273 - Walther PPK Value 9/8/01 Lis, Hampton, VA
Walther - PPK - .32? - gray? - don't have it -
My father has a Walther PPK that he took off a dead German officer in WWII. He is wondering if there is any real value to it. I don't have the gun in front of me so I can't provide much more detail.
Answer: Lis, without more information I can't be too specific. PPK values can range from $100 for a rusty one in poor condition to well over $1000 for a rare variation in excellent condition. Marc
# 4281 - Remington 722 Value 9/4/01 Doug, Diamond Springs, CA
Remington - 722 - .300 SAV - 23' - Blue - 59361 -
patents pending, B UU This rifle was purchased for me in 1973 for $70.00. It was my first rifle. I was twelve years old and the stock was too long, so it was cut down about two inches and a 3/4 inch recoil pad added. How did this affect the value of this rifle ? It is in perfect original condition other than the stock being cut down.
Answer: Doug, the Remington 722 is a fine rifle but there is not a lot of collector interest the model. Values for examples in perfect condition are in the $300 range. Value for your rifle with a shortened stock would probably be in the $200 to $250 range depending on whether or not you can find someone with the right length arms who is interested in purchasing. Marc
# 4284 - Snider 9/4/01 Roger
Found in paddock near streaky bay can you identify this weapon? Looks like center fire but it is not. Has air screw i thought was center pin. Chamber folds out maby for cleaning big screw at back of gun to hold breach in place Looks like a black powder gun can you help?
Answer: Roger- You have discovered the remains of a Briths "Snider" breech loading center fire rifle (or carbine- depending on barrel length). These first appeared about 1867 mbyt yours is the later Mark III pattern which appeared probably about 1870. The ammunition used inthese was .577 caliber with a cartridge case of brass or with a solid metal head and brass/foil spiral wound sides for the case. They used a center fire primer. The Snider was widely used by British commonwealth countries until replaced by the Martini rifles, and eventually the Sniders were sold off as surplus and could have been used by almost anyone for anything at any time after that. You can see a picture of a complete one at http://oldguns.net/4263.jpg. John Spangler
# 4217 - Tracing Gun History 9/4/01 Barry, Paducah KY
Springfield - Trapdoor (long Rifle) - 45-70 - 35 - Blue - 323547 -
Is there any way to find out where it came from? And who it may have been issued to. (History of Rifle)
Answer: Barry- We have done some extensive commentary on tracing history though serial numbers in previous Q&A items. You can look them up using the search tool at the top left of our main page. Short answer to your question is that there is no documented history available on this rifle. Several rifles with numbers close to yours were used by various units in the Spanish American War. If there was any information available, it would have come from Frank Mallory's outstanding contributions through Springfield Research Service. He has dug through literally thousands of obscure government documents in the National Archives looking for serial numbers, and has made those available through sale of his books and electronic listings. He can provide information on the source document and often a copy for a modest fee. However, documented history has been found on only a small percentage of U.S. military arms. Even then, it is likely a mention of being issued, damaged, stolen, or transferred on a specific date by a specific unit. Previous and subsequent events are usually unknown, and only rarely do records link the serial number with a specific person. It is pretty neat when you can find something. I once found two .45-70 trapdoor rifles used in the Spanish American War by soldiers in the same Company of Illinois Volunteer Infantry. The rifles were found about five years apart, one in Utah and the other in Missouri, and were reunited nearly 100 years after last being used together. Another Span-Am era trapdoor was documented to a Kansas Volunteer who served in the Philippines, and was not a very good soldier and got court martialed, but also saw some action. Match rifles and service rifles sold prior to WW2 through the DCM program (forerunner of the CMP program) have fairly complete records and they even identify the purchaser and date of sale. John Spangler
# 4231 - Argentine Federal Police Pistol 9/1/01 Walter
Colt - 1911? - .45 - Blue (refinished - C 169120 -
Right Side of slide marked with the normal Colt writing and logo. Right side of frame marked Government Model over serial number. Left side of slide marked POLICIA DE LA CAPITL. Top of slide marked and barrel marked No 2940 I was under the impression that commercial models of 1911s had their serial numbers start the letter C. Also when checking the date of manufacture using your site the date seems to be incorrect if this is an Argentine made pistol. I appreciate any clarification you can give me. Keep up the good work you are doing for us.
Answer: Walter, you have a Colt manufactured Argentine federal police pistol. Serial numbers for these pistols are in the Colt civilian serial number range and are not included in our internet U.S. military database. From 1914 through 1941, Argentina purchased 21,616 pistols from Colt, 11,420, pistols for their army, 2,290 pistols for their navy, and 6,183 pistols for federal police departments. A total of 1,723 other Colt pistols were also purchased and shipped to Argentina, most of which were most likely procured by provincial police departments. The Argentine federal police procured 5,320 pistols in 1933, these pistols were numbered in the C165000 to C171000 serial range, your pistol is one of these. Argentine federal police pistols are marked "POLICIA DE LA CAPITAL" on the left side of the slide. The number stamped on top of your slide is the federal police issue number. Argentine federal police issue numbers ranged from 1 to 5320. Marc
# 4187 - Forehand & Wadsworth 9/1/01 Rick, Quincy, Il
F & W on the grips with a star spangled shield below that. FOREHAND ARM CO WORCHESTER MASS USA on the rib of the barrel Patent DEC7 86 & JAN11 87It is in firing order. How old is it and is it worth anything. Do you know anyone that is looking for one? Thanks MUCH
Answer: We have answered questions on Forehand & Wadsworth in the past. You can use the search tool at the top left of our page to look up this information. Frankly, I have no interest in them and cannot add anything to what we have written in the past. I am sure someone is looking for one, but no idea who it might be. John Spangler
# 4097 - Spanish Revolver 9/1/01 Raymond , Roseville, Michigan
Manuel Escodin Of Eibar, Spain - Revolver - 32 Caliber - 4 Inches - Worn Gold Over Nickel - M243599 -
All surfaces, including cylinder and trigger guard engraved. Trademark of J. L. Galef & Son of N. Y. C. (emblem) appears on left side with floral design on right side. Grips are mother of pearl. Barrel states to use "32 Winchester Ctg" along with "Manuel Escodin Eibar Spain 1924 Model Revolver". Any information about this revolver would be appreciated. Had it to an antique dealer this morning (5-9-01), who was stumped except for identifying the trademark.
Answer: Raymond, You have one of many inexpensive revolvers manufactured in Eibar Spain in the first half of the last century for export to the United States. J. L. Galef & Son of N. Y. C. is probably the importer. Many Eibar revolvers were manufactured using inferior quality steel and are not considered safe to fire. Demand for these revolvers, especially in .32 caliber is very low, probably in the $50 or less range. Marc
# 4265 - Remington Musket City Of Philadelphia 9/1/01 Tim
Remington - 1856 -
I have a Remington 1856 longarm with "City of Philadelphia" engraved on the top...any idea of its worth? I have pictures that goes along with it of my great great grandfather who served in the Union Army....any idea? Thanks.
Answer: Tim- NEAT ITEM!! Sounds like a Model 1816 smoothbore musket which was converted at Frankford Arsenal in 1855 using locks supplied by Remington. These were made for use with a roll of caps called a Maynard primer.
The City of Philadelphia used that marking on a number of guns procured for use of the City's militia during the Civil War. I have not heard of them being found on this particular model before, but they may not be scarce, just that I was not paying attention. Value would depend on condition and exact model, and what all historical documentation goes with it.
It should definitely stay in your family. You can probably get a copy of your relative's service record from either the National Archives, or perhaps from the Pennsylvania Archives in Harrisburg. John Spangler