Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters OldGuns.net FineOldGuns.com

 

 

Questions And Answers Page

If you have a question about firearms and you want it posted on this page click here.

Return to Collectors Headquarters.

Click here to go to the question and answer monthly index.

Click here to go to the question and answer subject index.


# 14232 - Fancy Remington
9/27/2011
Mark, Pensacola

Remington - 121B - .22lr - 24 - Blue -

I have acquired a 1953 Remington model 121B, it has the hand checkering vise the smooth butt stock on cob type forestock, was wondering why it isn't listed anywhere and what would the value be at 90%. Thanks Mark, Ret Navy

Answer:
Mark, thanks for your service. My first .22 was a Remington and I have always liked Remington slide action .22 rifles, I think that they shoot and handle well and that they are well made. The Model 121A Fieldmaster was manufactured from 1936 to 1941 and then again after WWII from 1945 to 1954, total production was over 200,000 rifles. The Model 121 was designed to chamber 22 Short, 22 Long and 22 Long Rifle, rimfire ammunition and the tubular magazine, which was mounted under the barrel, held 14-20 rounds depending on the cartridge length.

The only information that I could find on B grade Remington Model 121 rifles is that they came with a little better wood and with checkered stock and forend. The blue book does not list values for B grade Model 121 rifles so value is anyone's guess. I think that if I were to offer a B grade Model 121 for sale that I would ask 25 to 35 percent more for it than a comparable A grade rifle would sell for. Marc


# 14151 - 1866 Winchester With Brass Tacks In Stock
9/27/2011
Tom, Atlanta, Michigan

Winchester - 1866 - 44-40 - Saddle Ring Carbine - Blue - 158448 -

I have this Yellow Boy with brass tacks in the stock, in a cross pattern. I have seen many photos of Native Americans holding rifles with similar decoration. How would I find a photograph, if one exists, of an early owner of this carbine, based on the tack design? I could email a photo. Tom Young at tomthescribe@nemichigan.com

Answer:
Tom- Flayderman’s Guide to Antique American Firearms and Their Values has a discussion on brass tack decorated guns, but mainly in the context of muzzle loaders. Sadly, many such guns have been faked by adding tacks. A smart faker would even attempt to copy a pattern visible in a photo, so he can “prove” who owned the gun. One key detail is that most modern made “brass” tacks are actually just brass plated over steel. Check with a magnet and if it attracts, you have fake decorations. Some of the more devious fakers find old tacks and use those, so this tip is not foolproof.

The good news is that your rifle was made around 1882, and has enough collector value without the “Indian” association that it is possibly a genuine Indian decorated gun. Based on discussions about decoration added (usually carved, not tacks) on Trapdoors, I think that decorative patterns were often imitated by several people, or even whole tribes, so it may not be unique to a single owner.

I have not done any research in Indian photographs, but there are lots of people deeply into public and private collections of that sort of material. They may be able to steer you in the right direction, but I cannot help. John Spangler


# 14225 - Remington Mod. 10
9/24/2011
Rocky, Mico, TX

Remington Arms Union Metallic 10 [I Believe -SC- No Markings] - 12 Gauge - 25-26'' - Blue - U116062 -

2 piece shotgun. Patent dates are Feb 3, 1903 and May 16, 1905. Hard to read but `Remington Works` is engraved on the barrel. Barrel is inserted and turned 1/4 turn to secure. I would like to know where I could find assembly and disassembly instructions. Would also be nice to know what it is worth.

Answer:
Rocky, the Remington Model 10 was manufactured from 1907 to 1929. It was a pump-action take-down design with internal hammer, plain pistol grip stock and a tubular magazine. The Model 10 was only offered in 12 gauge but it could be ordered with different barrel lengths from 20 to 32 inches.

The United States military purchased a short-barreled version of the Model 10 (the Model 10-A) for use as trench guns during World War I. The Winchester Model 1897 was the major shotgun used by the U.S., but Remington made 3500 of the Model 10-A version shotguns for issue to U.S. troops. The Model 10-A trench gun had a 23 inch barrel, sling swivels, heat shield over the barrel, and an adapter with bayonet lug for affixing the M1917 bayonet. It was used in limited numbers by the Marine Corps through the 1930s.

The U.S. purchased Model 10 shotguns with 20-inch barrels for use as riot guns, for guarding prisoners, and a quantity with 26 to 30-inch barrels for training aerial gunners.

Values in the blue book for normal sporting Model 10 Remington shotguns are modest, they range from $100 to about $300. The blue book says to add 35% for guns marked "Long Range" and 10% for shotguns with 32 inch full choke barrels. Values for U.S. marked military shotguns will be much higher, especially for U.S. marked trench guns.

I was unable to find take - down instructions for your Model 10 but I found an exploded drawing and an owners manual at the following two URLs:

http://www.stevespages.com/ipb-remington-10.html

http://stevespages.com/pdf/remington_10.pdf

Hope that this helps, Marc


# 14158 - La Coruna Mauser Rifle
9/24/2011
Carson Estill

Spanish 1917 - Mauser - 8mm - Other - F5722 -

Emblem on bolt to faded to make out but says Fabrica De Arms La Coruna 1917 Anything about this gun or fabrica de arms la coruna

Answer:
Carson- Fabrica de Arms La Coruna was one of the Spanish military arsenals. In my opinion their work is superior to that of the Spanish Oviedo Arsenal, but neither is even close to the quality of work done by the German makers whom they copied (under license). Mausers replaced the Remington Rolling block rifles in the Spanish service about 1890, and remained their standard rifle (although progressing through several models) before being replaced by the automatic CETME rifles in the 1950 or 60s. John Spangler


# 14223 - 69A Info
9/20/2011
Huntsville, AL

Winchester - 69A - 22 S, L , LR - 25'' - Blue - NONE--NOT PUT ON THEM -

Chrome trigger guard -SC- grooved trigger -SC- Chrome curve back bolt -SC- slots for a scope and it has an old scope on it......Approximate manufactures date is 1957-63 from the blogs I have read. I also read the ones with the scope slots were the most desirable. Mine came from and estate sale and was clean and only has minor scratches on the stock and the barrel is blue and no rust. Very good condition and well taken care of. It has the original Winchester 5 clip also. What do you estimate as the value of this gun?

Answer:
Winchester manufactured about 355,000 Model 69 & 69A rifles between 1935 and 1963. Rifles were not serial numbered so it is difficult to pin down a date of manufacture for any particular rifle, but I think that your estimate of 1957 to 1963 is pretty close. The 69 and the 69A were both 10 shot, bolt action repeaters that came with 25 inch barrels. Standard open sights, or a number 97B rear aperture sight with a number 80A hooded front target sights were offered on both Model 69 and Model 69A rifles. The big difference between 69 and 69A rifles is that the Model 69 was cocked by the closing motion of the bolt which had straight (non-swept back) bolt handle. The 69A was cocked by the opening motion of the bolt and it had a swept back bolt handle.

The blue book lists 69 & 69A values between $85 and $425 depending on condition. Thanks to the good description of the condition that you provided, I can tell you that your rifle in the upper portion of that range. You are correct about the grooved receiver models being more desirable, the book indicates to add 20% for grooved receiver 69A rifles, and 5% if the rifle has a chrome plated bolt handle and trigger guard. Hope this helps - Marc


# 14149 - Griffon Cane Guns
9/20/2011
Brian Cypress,TX

Griffon - .36 - Blue - NONE -

My uncle recently passed away and left me a few things. One of the items was a box of 3 separate walking can guns made by a company called Griffon. I believe they were manufactured in 1982. They have half circle wooden handles and fire .36 cal (.375) round balls, using No.11 percussion caps to ignite a charge of 13 grains FFF black powder. Paperwork says it shoots with sufficient force to penetrate three 1'' pine boards. They have never been fired and have all the paper work with them. Anyone know what they would be worth? Do they still make these? I can find no info on them.

Answer:
Brian- They sound like interesting novelty items, but frankly I know nothing about them. Some places have silly laws regarding cane guns. (And, would probably enforce those, while ignoring drug dealing illegal alien criminals carrying around stolen Glocks…)

I would try selling on one of the auction sites. John Spangler


# 14148 - Unidentified Muzzle Loading Rifle
9/17/2011
Paul,Cullman,AL

Riddle - 45 (black Powder) - 46'' - Blue - ? -

Arthur Price written by hand on the brass butt plate. R.Kern Woonier was stamped (located on the butt plate.) Half cock trigger and a regular trigger. Who made the gun? What date gun was made and value. Trying to find history as well.

Answer:
Paul- Sorry, I have no info on any of those names, and cannot help at all on this one. John Spangler


# 14145 - Gecado Blank And Rocket Pistol
9/17/2011
Doug-Akron-Ohio

Gecado - Blank And Rocket Pistol - 4 Inch - Blue -

What is its value and can I still purchase rockets in 7mm or 9mm?

Answer:
Doug- Sorry, I have never heard of one of those and have no idea what sort of rockets they might use. John Spangler


# 14214 - Stainless Steel Ithaca 1911A1?
9/17/2011
Arch, Blue Springs, MO

Ithaca Gun Co. - 1911 A1 - 45 - Stainless Steel - 1872110 -

US Property What is the value of this gun?

Answer:
Arch, your Ithaca was manufactured in 1944. At the time that it was manufactured, the original finish would have gray / green Parkerization. If your pistol has a shiny stainless steel like finish, it has probably been nickel or chrome plated.

Values for Ithaca 1911A1 pistols with original finish can go over $2400 depending on condition. Your pistol does not have the original finish, so value will be in the $300 - $400 range as a shooter. Marc


# 14212 - Austrian Marked Luger
9/13/2011
Vance, Fort Lauderdale, FL. USA

Luger Erfute - 1918 - 9mm? - 4'' - Blue - 8435 -

Front of grip 3/.R.R.16.70. 8435 on left of barrel & front of frame. 35 on rt side frame/toggle above trigger/rear of sight/extractor/top toggle. Rt side barrel eagle crest with odd stamp and 2356.60. Frame above trigger eagle crest with odd stamp and 2356.60. 1918 / 20 top of barrel. Top toggle has other stamps I cannot decipher. Mag in non match #9735 with odd O, dagger?, eagle with 83 under it. Under barrel is marked made in Austria. ''Holster has a crown stamp with III under it on back, pull up strap works. How rare is this piece & value.

Answer:
Vance, your Luger has some interesting markings, there are some that I can identify, but there are others that I have never seen on a Luger before.

The "1918 / 20" markings lead me to believe that your Luger is one of a type commonly known as a "Double Dated" Lugers. The Double Dated Lugers are usually WWI German military issue pistols that were factory reworked and reissued after WWI to German Army and Police units, as permitted by the treaty of Versailles. 1918 is the original year of manufacture. The 1920 meant the Luger could be legitimately issued to the new German army, the Reichswehr, or issued to the police. It may have been reworked or modified during this time. If the pistol was issued to the German police it may have been modified with a small metal bar on the left side of the upper receiver to prevent if from firing when it was partially disassembled.

"3/.R.R.16.70" is a unit marking, it stands for one of the two following definitions, depending on if first R is written in a script like, or regular font:

Infanterie Regiment 3 Rekrutendepot Kompagnie 16 Waffe Nr. 70

Reserve Infanterie Regiment 3 Kompagnie 16 Waffe Nr. 70

The markings that I can't identify are "Austria" and "2356.60". I am guessing that 2356.60 may be some sort of police - weapon, or rack number. Austria is an unusual marking to have on a Luger. It sounds like an import marking for the Luger's country of origin, these were applied in accordance wit U.S. laws to foreign manufactured firearms when they were imported into the United States. I have seen allot of Lugers that are marked "Germany" but I have never seen one that is marked "Austria". The Austrian police typically used pistols designed and made by the Steyr company. The Austrian Army was absorbed into the German Army after the Anschluss in 1938. The Austrian police continued to used Austrian manufactured weapons, but many were marked with the Nazi eagle.

For more information, a good place to look would be the Jan Still Luger forum at http://luger.gunboards.com/. Good luck, Marc


# 14146 - “Sheriff Type Markings” On Winchester 1873
9/13/2011
Greg, Charles Town, WV

Winchester - 1873 SRC - 44/40 - 20 - Blue - 52794 -

This gun has a cartouche near the butt that has inside a sheriff type shield the letters M del E and a star. Then next to it another cartouche with a shield ( not like a sheriff though) with the letters MJR and also a star. I purchased the gun from TX. Any idea what these cartouches mean?

Answer:
Greg- Sounds like an interesting gun, but I confess I have no idea what the markings might indicate. They may be from some sort of Texas law enforcement agency, or perhaps even one from across the border. Of course, they may be total fakes added to help sell guns to hillbilly tourists.


# 14191 - Fommer STOP
9/10/2011
Brian

Blue -

I found a gun in my aunts house can you help it has Fegyvergyar Budapest Fommer Pat. STOP CAL 7.65 m/m (.32) 75130

Answer:
Brian, the Frommer 'Stop' design was introduced in 1912. Pistols were manufactured at the Fegyvergyar factory in Budapest which was also involved in manufacturing the Roth Steyr for the Imperial Austro-Hungarian Army at the time. Frommer Stop pistols were sold commercially and they were also adopted by the Austro-Hungarian Army in 1912 for use by second line elements. Later, the Frommer Stop became the official service pistol of the independent post-1919 Hungarian army.

Military Frommer Stop pistols are the most desirable type for collectors, they can be identified because they are stamped with the Hungarian crest, and / or the Austrian crest, with the letters BP and a two digit date. Commercial pistols usually have the Hungarian commercial proof, which consists of a crown over the letters BP, all enclosed in a circle.

Frommer Stop production stopped somewhere above serial number 363500, probably in 1929 when Fegyvergyar started manufacture of the new 29M pistol for the Hungarian military. Frommer Stop pistols remained in military and police service until 1945. Marc


# 14143 - Remington 700 Info
9/10/2011
Gary Yuma, Az.

Remington - 700 SPRG - 30-06 - Blue - B6258903 -

Can you please tell me the year of manufacture? Also what does the SPRG mean? Thanks ahead of time, Gary

Answer:
Gary- Sorry, I cannot help with the date. Remington used a date code on the barrels of their guns, but I am not bright enough to figure it out reliably. The SPRG presumably follows the .30-06 on the barrel and indicates .30- 06 Springfield is the caliber. John Spangler


# 14210 - Blackpowder Repro. Value
9/6/2011
Hinsdale NY

Blakpowder 44 Caliber Pistol - USMR - 44 - 9 In - Don't Know - 198C2 (C BACKWARDS) -

198c2 ( C backwards0 double stamped same number on butt PN w/ star above coat of arms crossed rifles over shield, says Navy Arms INc made in Italy has AD in a box trying to figure out year of gun which the AD represents and would like to know if it is collectable

Answer:
Your revolver is a modern reproduction that was manufactured in Italy and imported by Navy Arms. "USMR" stands for U.S. Army's Mounted Rifles (U.S.M.R.) or "Dragoons". Navy Arms was founded about 1960 by Val Forgett in Ridgefield, NJ. They were among the first to have Italian gunmakers turn out copies of Civil War and other antique firearms.

Navy Arms has a good reputation for the quality and workmanship of the firearms that they market but there is not allot of collector interest in modern black powder replicas, so resale values are usually pretty modest. Marc


# 14118 - Krag Carbine History Quest
9/6/2011
Kenneth

Krag Jorgensen - 30-40 Krag Model 1898 Carbine - 30-40 - Blue - 136032 -

I want to authenticate my rifle. Where do I locate an accurate account of who carried this rifle, where, confirmed kills? If it has all parts from the factory, or if it has had parts replaced. Just a dossier of its service record.

Answer:
Ken- Research over about 25 years in the National Archives by the late Frank Mallory failed to turn up any information about your carbine. In fact, he was only able to find about 13,800 numbers listed anywhere, out of about 475,000 Krags made (a success rate of less than 3%, so don’t feel like you are being picked on, or unlucky.) We know it was made in 1898 (serial numbers used that year for the Model 1898 rifles and carbines ran from about 110,000 up to 152,000. After that anything would be pure speculation. It may have gone to a volunteer unit headed for Cuba or the Philippines, or maybe a National Guard unit that never went anywhere. It probably remained with a single unit for most of its service life and was later sold off as surplus, perhaps to a NRA member in the 1920s. Or maybe some deserting thief stole it when he skipped out of his unit and took it with him, traded it at the local house of ill-repute for “services” and they swapped it to the local brewery for a keg of beer. I doubt very much if it was ever used to kill anyone, but would not be surprised if someone used it as a deer rifle for one or more seasons. As far as verifying it’s configuration as being correct and original, you really need to study details in the books on the Krag by Frank Mallory, or Bill Brophy, or maybe others. Or, have a knowledgeable Krag collector take a look at it. (That probably rules out 95% of the folks who hang around gun shows pretending to know all about everything. Model 1898 Krag carbines are pretty scarce, so there is a good chance that you actually have a rifle cut to carbine length after it left military service, but an expert can spot that pretty quickly. John Spangler


# 14140 - Winchester Rifle
9/3/2011
Code, So. Woodstock, VT.

Winchester - ? Pat. Oct. 14,1884 - Jan. 20, 1885 - 50 Ex - 25.25'' - Blue - 142717 -

Brass butt plate -SC- an oval plate with an Elk engraved on one side of the stock and an oval plate engraved ''POT NOSE'' Jess Nichols from Tom Brown What is the actual model number of this rifle and is there any way I can find out who did the modifications.

Answer:
Code- The 1884 and 1885 patent dates and .50 Express caliber indicate that this could only be the lever action Model 1886 rifle, one of John M. Browning’s many great and enduring inventions. The serial number indicates it was made about 1907, and the 26 inch barrel was standard for the Model 1886 rifles. The plate with the elk engraving and “Pot Nose” Jess Nichols from Tom Brown suggests that it was presented by Mr. Brown to “Pot Nose” Nichols, probably around 1907-1910. It is possible that the plate was a factory addition, and a letter from the Cody Firearms Museum (http://www.bbhc.org/firearms/records/) may confirm or disprove that. Some quick Googling did not turn up any leads on identifying Nichols or Brown. The presence of the elk seems like it would be related to one of the states where elk are common game animals, but perhaps the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks fraternal group. My personal guess is that Mr. Brown was some rich guy hunter and that “Pot Nose” (possibly an Indian?) was a hunting guide who helped him get one heck of a trophy elk. Of course, everyone can make up their own story to go with the gun. (and some dealers will, more for profit than for fun!) John Spangler


# 14188 - Falcon .25
9/3/2011
Deborah, Griffin,GA

Falcon - 25-5.35 Mm MOD 11 - 25 - Stainless Steel - 61541 -

Pearl Handle with a Falcon on one side and the word Falcon on the other side , also has made in Germany I would like to know when this hand gun was made and the value of it, upon the death of my father, it was found inside of his toolbox, I would also like to know if you can order a clip for this model

Answer:
Deborah, it is hard to say for sure what your pistol is without actually seeing it. My references include two or three different models of pistol that were marketed under the Falcon name. I think the closest match to the pistol that you are asking about is a little .25 automatic pistol of German origin that was sold by the Spesco Corporation of Atlanta, Georgia, in the 1960s. Similar guns were sold contemporaneously under several names including Hawes and Pic but they were all manufactured by Gecado.

Sorry to have to tell you that values for this type of pistol are not high, I often see them being offered for sale at gunshows in the $100 dollar range. A replacement magazine for your pistol may be difficult to find, I recommend that you check with Gun Parts Corp (the old Numrich Arms people) at the following URL:

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/

Gun Parts Corp has just about everything. If that doesn't work, try posting on our free "Wanted" page at the following URL:

http://oldguns.net/submitwn.htm

Hope that this helps. Marc


Return to Collectors Headquarters.