# 71 - Weaver 330 Sniper Scope
10/27/96
Phil Beck - nute@kern.com

My father must have brought this back from Germany after WW2 I inherited his army footlocker and among other things found this scope I remember reading somewhere about a shortage of sniper scopes at the start of the war so weaver just scratched ser #'s and sent them off. It is missing the up adjustment knob my questions are where can I find the missing knob and does this have any collector value also if I can find the knob who can clean and install it I have a smith corona and a Remington 03a3 and would like to mount it on one of these (or even better find another one to put it on !!)

Answer:
Phil, You have a "Telescope M73B1" which was the U.S. military version of the Weaver 330C. You are correct that the initial purchases had the regular commercial markings, and the M73B1 marking was added on the side. Serial number markings were also added. Later production had the M73B1 designation on the label plate instead of the 330 designation. The 330C had "click" type target knobs, cylindrical in shape with serrated sides and a small flat spring between the knobs to hold them in position. The 330S had "silent" knobs which were not locked in place, and had a conical shape. A lot of evil people try to sell people the commercial 330S scopes are rare sniper stuff, but they ain't! You should be able to find a junker Weaver scope with the same kind of knobs for about $20-30 to fix yours. (Or you could sell it to me..... see out wanted link, so I can sell it to a collector trying to restore a M1903A4). These use 3/4 inch rings which are getting hard to find, and the M1903A4 sniper rifle was drilled and tapped for a Redfield Junior base. Similar ones are still available, as the Redfield "S-SPEC" model. You could have a gunsmith drill and tap one of your rifles, but we advise against messing up a good collectable rifle. There seem to have been plenty of M73B1 scopes purchased, but I have been told that they were also used for things other than the M1903A4 sniper rifles, such as aligning radar antennas for fire control systems, and for direct fire sighting of the 37mm M3 anti-tank gun. I haven't confirmed these, but they sound plausible... John

# 70 - French or Belgian Revolver
10/27/96
Wendell Tate - wendell@netside.com

There is what appears to be a "c" or "g" on the side of the barrel (octagonal). There is also an "LG" on the cylinder. This marking is within a small circle.

Hi Marc, This is a gun which my father purchased at a yard sale. A friend of his who is an amateur gun collector believes that it is a British or French issue from around the mid 1800's. It has a rosewood handle, a Maynard firing system, and resembles a Lemat Rev(?). It has a fold up trigger, fires six shots, and is in great condition. Any info that you could supply as to the make, date, value, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Wendell Tate

Answer:
Wendell, you didn't give us much to work with. The markings are almost certainly Belgian proofmarks. The folding trigger was popular on French and Belgian arms in the late 1800s, but only on civilian pistols. Lemats had two barrels(over/under) and fired a shotgun load out the lower barrel. Perhaps the grip shape similarity is what you are referring to. I am confused by "maynard firing system". This usually refers to a hinged door arrangement for a roll of paper priming caps. These were hardly ever used on pistols, here, and not at all in Europe as far as I know. Perhaps you are thinking of a pinfire ignition system, where there is a little slot at the back of each chamber in the cylinder that the happier would hit. Pinfires were made from about 6mm to 11mm. They have little collector interest or value in the U.S. We would really need more info to be sure what you are talking about. You might check you library (about 623 if they use the Dewey system) and see if you can find a general gun book with photos to compare. Good luck, hope it turns out to be a goody... John

# 69 - 41-42 Luger
10/27/96
MauserVic@prodigy.com

My question are in reference to a Luger pistol that I acquired not to long ago, here's the description: four digit ser# 80xx, It has a "41" on the chamber, a "42" on the toggle. On the right side of the receiver it has 3 Nazi eagles, 2 with the number"655" underneath, and one with a swastika underneath. On the left side it has "P.08" stamped on it{towards the rear of the receiver). The finish on the pistol is blue and is about 98%. All the numbers match except the magazine, which doesn't have a number but has a "+", and a Nazi eagle with a "37" under it. The grips are black plastic and DON'T have the east German "bulls eye" on them. 1. What's the value of this Pistol? 2. Is it in any way rare or desirable from a collectors point of view? 3.Anything special or interesting about it?

Answer:
Victor, your Luger sounds like a very rare model known as the 41-42. All 41-42's were manufactured by Mauser in January of 1941 and only 7,000 were produced. The 655 marking on your luger is the German WW-II Heerswaffenamt inspector's mark on arms produced at Mauser Werke AG, Oberndorf am Neckar, Germany and the 42 on the toggle is a German ordnance code that was also assigned to Mauser-Werke. I can find no references to model 41-42's having black grips, everything that I have shows them with the standard wooden ones. Normally black grips are only encountered on Mauser ''Black Widow'' models which have the byf Mauser manufacturer code stamped on them. The black grips may or may not be original. The number 37 on your magazine is the German WW-II Heerswaffenamt inspectors mark for Haenel P-08 magazines. As to the value of your Luger, a Model 41-42 in that is all original and in 98% condition should be worth in the $1200 dollar range... Marc

# 21 - 1903 Springfield
10/26/96
TnCPA20@aol.com

I have just recently purchased my first Springfield '03 and am curious as to the markings on the finger-groove type stock. The Cartouche on the left side is RLB in a block, along with an emblem?? beside it. Also on the stock is stamped N.Z.?.D. above the number 16xx. The wood is in excellent condition, except the last owner tried to restore it using some type of furniture stains & sealer. It is now very sticky to hold. Any suggestions as to how to correct this? I don't want to sand off any markings, etc. and would like to keep the color in its 'old' looking condition. Also, are there any 'Springfield '03 collector boards' that you know of? Thanks

Answer:
Dear Springfield Owner- You have a very rare late 1941-early 1942 stock on a rifle assembled from parts at some time. The receiver serial number would put it in 1918-1919 period, while the barrel date is 1921. The stock was made by Remington on one of their very first Model 1903s, using machinery which had been in storage at Rock Island Arsenal since the end of WWI. The finger grooves were stopped after only about 20,000 or so were made. RLB is Roy L. Bowlin, the inspector at Remington at the time, followed by Frank J. Atwood. The symbol is the ordnance department symbol applied along with the inspector's initials when approved for acceptance by the U.S. government. About the time of Pearl Habro we sent lots of guns to England and the other Commonwealth countries. Many later returned to the U.S. via surplus dealers in the 50s and 60s. M1s seem to have gone to England, and many of the early Remington Model 1903s went to New Zealand, hence the NZ marking on the stock. Sometime since then, all those parts have been assembled into a complete M1903 rifle. That is a perfectly acceptable representative rifle, and millions have been rebuilt by ordnance activities over the years. We would all like one that hasn't been touched since it left the arsenal. Unfortunately those are seldom seen any more. I don't know of any M1903 sites on the net (we are probably pretty close, and I have a bunch in my collection, and have owned hundreds over the years.) The definitive book for collectors is "The Springfield '03 rifles" by Willliam S. Brophy, and the next best one is "The '03 Era" by Clark Campbell. They run about $60 and $40 respectively, or can be obtained on interlibrary loan at your local library. To clean your sticky stock, try some lacquer thinner and 0000 steel wool. If that doesn't work, they try some paint remover. I suspect someone just put too much linseed oil on it... John

# 20 - European Shotguns
10/25/96
TeleGift@ix.netcom.com

A lot of tooling. one has left handed stock with rabbits quail & fesints and other graphic designs. It has a crown S, crown W, crown U, ovel with s&s, nitro, a sheld with an M over a C Anton Weingarten, Dusseldorf, Suhler Waffenwerk, Gebruder Merkel, Suhl.the other has right-handed stock with many of the same marks.

What is the history of these guns and what are they worth?

Answer:
Your shotguns are undoubtedly souvenirs brought back from Europe at the end of WW2. Many high grade guns were "liberated" and sent home. The best had elaborate engraving, inlays, etc., and some can be quite valuable now. Krupp "Fluss stahl" or fluid steel was the good stuff used for barrels (as opposed to damascus or twist steel). Merkel is one of the better makers. The other marks are normal German proof markings for smokeless powder guns in the pre-war period. Most of these guns have the short European style chambers and can be dangerous to use with modern US ammo. Values are very dependent on condition, but there are a lot of people who like these older high grade guns. I have seen some offered for just a couple hundred dollars, while others are several thousand. Sort of like selling a Picasso painting, to a snooty art collector, they are worth lots, but I wouldn't buy one at any price to hang in my house. Albermarle Fine Arms in Charlottesville, VA deals in the high grade guns. Maybe then can help you more than we can... John

# 19 - Nathan R. Davis Shotgun Identification
10/23/96
Thomas Hall - thomaseph@postoffice.worldnet.att.net

Intricate design on barrels all the way up. #15 on each of the parts. I received this gun from my grandfather about a year ago. He told me that it was his father's. I am interested in finding out anything I can about the gun, ie, how old it is, where it is from, how much it might be worth, etc. The gun is in remarkable shape, with no rust at all and a perfect stock. My grandfather gave it to me in what appears to be the original holder -- looks to me to be a very beat-up canvas sack. I'd appreciate any information you might have about this, as I'd like to have something to tell my kids. Thanks.

Answer:
Tom, We have identified one potential maker for your shotgun, but without knowing more about the gun, this may or may not be correct. Nathan R. Davis of Freetown Mass was granted 5 patents on gun related inventions between 1868 and 1886. He started the N.R. Davis & Co. gun making firm in Assonet, Mass in 1853, This merged with Warner Arms CO about 1917, went inactive 1`920-22, then was revived about 1930 as part of the Crescent-Davis Arms corp., which in turn was absorbed by Stevens about 1932. I am guessing that your shotgun is one of the earlier ones which would have been marked N.R. Davis, and probably has external hammers. It could be either a muzzle loader or breech loader, depending on when it was made. All the companies Davis was later affiliates with made inexpensive shotguns to be mass marketed. Crescent alone made them under dozens of different brand names. the Davis name may or may not have been used on guns after 1917 when they got into mergers. Probably very little collector value to your gun, but as a family keepsake, you cannot replace it. However, if the incumbent gets reelected, you may discover that you have an "assault weapon" and will be forced to give it up. Try to prevent that from happening. Vote November 5 for pro-gun candidates... John

# 18 - Browning Pistol
10/20/96
Bill Jack - billjack@epix.net

Large manufacturer or Model initials on the grip.

This gun was taken by my father during WWII. I value it as a family keepsake but wonder if there is any value or history I can relate to my children about it?Thanks, and great web page,Regards,

Answer:
Bill, Most likely your Browning pistol has more value and significance as a family piece than to a collector. Collector interest is limited unless these are in super nice condition (95% or better original finish), or are engraved. Examples with "capture papers" allowing a GI to take something home, or those with German military markings (tiny eagle and swastika over a code like Wa140) also have some collector interest. Other than these cases, the Browning pistols generally are regarded as well made and reliable guns, which will probably perform well for years to come. (Unless the politicians decide you can't be trusted with a gun anymore.) From your description we can't be sure if you have one of the .25 ACP (6.35mm) or .32 ACP (7.65 mm) pistols. In either case, the above is true and prices for examples we have seen typically run in the [$100-175???] range... John

# 13 - Hi Standard Model 10 Bullpup
10/19/96
"swordfoot@ntr.net" - swordfoot@ntr.net

This was a special weapon used in Vietnam primarily for point or tunnel clearing it was incased in black nylon. It had a shot suppresser that through 00 buck in a flat fan, it had a place to attach a flash light ,swivel yoke butt piece, tube fed recoil operated auto loader.

I carried one of these weapons for awhile in Vietnam. Never seen one before or since. I would like to know more about genesis of the weapon and are there any to be had? Apologize for lack of specific information, memory fails me.

Answer:
Dear Eric, I would really like to get more details on your service in Vietnam related to use of this (or any other) shotgun to document the history of some of the little known arms, and the men who used them. (Unit, dates, locations, copies of any photos showing the arms, etc. Let me know if you can help and I will provide mailing address. Thanks!) In 1978 Thomas Swearengen (CWO, USMC, ret) published the definitive book of military and other fighting shotguns- "The World's Fighting Shotguns". He has an extensive section on the development of the High Standard Model 10A "Bullpup" shotgun starting in 1965, and its successor the 10B which appeared in 1970. They had barrels a little over 18 inches long and overall length of about 27 inches, (thus long enough to avoid being classed as a "sawed off shotgun") with the same requirements to buy/sell as any other modern shotgun. The book makes no mention of quantity military purchases/use during Vietnam, however, that does not mean anyone should argue with you, when you say you carried one! He does mention on pp452-454 "Duckbill Spreader" attachments for the muzzle of shotguns to give a horizontal pattern, which were used to some extent by Navy SEALs and USMC Recon units. I have never heard of the spreaders being available for civilian purchase. High Standard was very picky about who they would sell the Model 10A/10B to, and sales were strictly limited to law enforcement users. However, in the last 25-30 years some have been sold as surplus by various agencies, so occasionally one is seen for sale, but at fairly high prices... John

# 17 - Remington Model 1908 Shotgun
10/19/96
Jim sypolt@avalon.imagixx.net

I have a question about a Remington(?) 1908, 12 gauge shotgun with no markings and a serial number of A4XXX. I would like to know when this gun was manufactured and the value. I would also like to know where I could find a barrel for a 30.06 model 640 pump and some idea of price. Thank you for answering my question about the 8mm labell. Jim.

Answer:
Jim, Your Remington Model 1908 shotgun was made sometime between 1908 and 1910. These were designed by John Pederson (who designed a lot of Remington's guns, and the famous "Pederson Device" of WWI. Introduced in 1908 as the Model 1908, it was slightly improved in 1910 and renamed as (surprise!) the Model 1910, later called just Model 10. Remington kept the same external appearance but changed the internals based on a John M. Browning design in 1917 and it became (still surprised?) the Model 17, and later evolved into the Model 29, (but I'm going to let you figure out when they did that. Although pretty good shotguns, they are not quite as good as the venerable Winchester Models 97 and 12. I frequently see well used Model 10s in the $125-250 price range, but even then they don't seem to sell very often. Unless your 1908 is in extra nice condition that would appeal to a hard-core Remington collector, I would expect it to run about the same. Sorry I can't help with a 640 pump rifle barrel, I don't even know which maker that is. Gun Parts Corp would be my first guess, followed by the "barrels" section in Gun List newspaper. Good Luck... John Spangler

# 8 - Steyr M-95 Short Rifle
10/15/96
DEREK SELTZER - derekseltzer@worldnet.att.net

1938 on chamber

I just acquired one of these carbines. Can you give me a history on when and where they were used in WWII. This carbine shoots 8x56 which I uderstand is a real mule kicker...thanks

Answer:
Derek, the Steyr M-95 was the principal Austro- Hungarian rifle of WW-I. Great quantities of model 95's were manufactured by Steyr and also in Budapest. Two carbine length rifles were produced, a carbine and a short rifle. The carbine which was designed for cavalry use has sling swivels on the side of the stock only, no stacking hook, and no bayonet lug. The short rifle was designed for engineers, signal corp, etc., it has sling swivels on both the side of the stock and on the bottom. The short rifle also has a bayonet stud and a stacking hook which screws into the upper barrel band. If my memory serves me correctly one of the big surplus firearms importers (It could have been Century) was selling Nazi proofed M-95's two or three years ago. The story that I remember was that the M-95's were arsenal reworked and re-stamped by the Nazis during WW-II. The reworked M95's were issued to non-font line troops like border guards, railway guards, and police. At the time that the M-95's were being sold, if you purchased one, you could also purchase a box of Nazi proofed and dated ammo. For more information you should contact Century Arms, there is a link to them on our links page... Marc

# 16 - Drilling
10/14/96
malcolm thompson mthompson@genstar2.genstar.net

Who is the exact manufacturer of this gun? What caliber would a rifle that was pre WWII and mounted under a shotgun mostlikely be?

Answer:
Dear Malcolm- You have what is called a "Drilling" (pronounced DRY-ling) or three barrel gun. The most common configuration is two shotgun barrels over a rifle barrel, although all sorts of weird combinations were made, depending on what the wealthy purchaser wanted. Most were handmade by skilled gun makers, so each is nearly unique. It is often impossible to pinpoint the maker, since they were made by so many different people, and the names found on some could be the purchaser instead of the maker. If you intend to shoot you drilling, have it checked by a competent gunsmith. Most of the shotgun barrels were chambered for shorter European shells, and could be dangerous if fired with modern U.S. ammo. (For example, the 16 Gauge barrels usually have 2 9/16 inch chambers, instead of 2 3/4 inch). 16 ga seems to be the most commonly encountered shotgun size. The rifle barrels are a wide variety, a few in U.S. calibers, but most not. The ones I have seen were most often had a bore of 9.3mm, and used a shell 72mm long which had a rim. The designation for this cartridge is 9.3x72R. Norma started making this ammo again a few years ago, but it may be hard to find. There are many other calibers as well, with a 9.3x74R cartridge also fairly popular. Don't think about shooting it until you have someone make a casting of the chamber and measure it to verify the caliber. Most of these guns now in the U.S. were brought home as souvenirs by GIs at the end of WW2, or purchased by occupation troops shortly after the war. Krupp steel was commonly used, but that only indicates the source of the steel, not who made the gun. Drillings are usually very well made, and prized by wealthy landowners for traditional European hunting use. Americans think they look pretty, but object to hauling a rifle barrel along in bird season, and don't like a couple of shotgun tubes if they are looking for deer. That, plus the difficulty getting the proper ammo makes the pretty to look at, but seldom used. Consequently they seem to bring far less than the quality of the workmanship would justify. Quite often the trigger for the rifle barrel has a "set" feature (usually activated by pushing forward on it) to that it would function as a "hair trigger". Enjoy your fine old gun, and if it has some history to it, make sure it gets written down so others will know here it came from, or at least how you got it... John Spangler.

# 15 - Mauser HSC Pistol
10/14/96
sibb54@ix.netcom.com (Jean Scibila) T

I just picked up a Mauser HSC pistol with a serial # in the 800,000 range. It has one waffenamt with the #135.It also has two eagle over the letter"N" marks at other spots. Caliber is 7.65.What is the significance of the eagle/N marks? Also can date of manufacture be determined by the serial# range? What branch of the German armed forces used this pistol? Thanks, Len Scibilia

Answer:
Len, The Mauser HSC has always been one of my favorite pocket pistols, they are well made and I like the looks and design. Nazi HSC pistols were made from 1941 until the end of the war, serial numbers began at 700,000 and ended at 951,000. 135 is the German WW-II Heerswaffenamt inspector's mark on arms produced at Mauser Werke AG, Oberndorf am Neckar, Germany. The Eagle over the letter N is a commercial test proof and it should be located in 3 places. 1- on the right side of the chamber (barrel), 2 - on the right side of the trigger guard, and 3 - on the right side of the slide near the muzzle. The eagle over WaA135 should be on the left side of the trigger guard where it meets the frame. As to what branch of the armed forces your HSC was used by, HSC's issued to the Kreigsmarine had a Kreigsmarine acceptance stamp on the front grip strap or the left side of the trigger guard. HSC's issued to the police had an eagle over an x inside a circle with the letter L to the right stamped on the left side of the trigger guard. If your HSC has none of these special markings, the military branch that it was used by can not be determined... Marc

# 5 - Pattern 1853 .577 "Enfield" Rifle Musket
10/14/96
Bernard Baker - bbaker1@earthlink.net

Barrel: lac (overstamped) in two places. lock: crown over v.r , l.a.co. 1861stock; crotche-- London armory company bermondsey 1862 . This piece is prior to the 1864 major caleb huse exclusive contract between London armory and the c.s.a.are any records available on earlier (1861-63) shipments which would indicate if this rifle was purchased by the north or south ?is a "t & co." marked ramrod correct for this gun? Thanks b. baker

Answer:
Bernard, Your Pattern 1853 .577 "Enfield" rifle musket is generally considered by most collectors to be a legitimate Civil War arm. Precise linkage to either U.S. or C.S. use is difficult at best, and I am personally very skeptical of most of the "evidence" folks have about their particular item (usually seeking a Confederate pedigree). Both Federal and Confederate agents, and those from numerous state, and private speculators were competing for surplus and newly made arms in Europe from 1860 to 1865. Arms could have been sold in large lots or small, and then changed ownership one or more additional times before finally reaching American ports (north or south). Some southern shpments were captured running the blockade, and subsequently the arms issued to federal forces. The best general coverage of this subject remains Bill Edwards superb "Civil War Guns". More specific details are buried in the 128 volume "Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies in the War of the Rebellion." The Todd et al "American Military Equipage 1851-1872" series has good break down of arms used on a regimental level, extracted from the quarterly reports of ordnance, etc. I recently sold a P1853 Enfield (Tower 1861) with "64 NY" marks, which was accompanied by a nicely done set of documents about the regiment's history of engagements, etc. However, the records said they had Springfields!! Captured trophy, unofficial battlefield replacement, or pure B.S.... who knows? I sold it based on the value of the gun itself, with the caveat that the 64NY association was suspect. Sorry I don't have any definitive answers for you. It certainly sounds like a nice piece, representative of those popular with the Confederate forces, but probably not something that can be positively proven... John Spangler.

# 6 - Gustav Genschow & Co. 22 Rifle
10/14/96
Emil Hrivnak eeh@vicon.net

Akt. Ges. Abtl. Waffenfabrik Berlin - Spandau Original Geco Sportbuchse Mod 28. Any idea if it's worth anything? I know it's at least 50 years old.

Answer:
Emil, we can't help too much with your rifle. Barrel length would have been a key bit of information, but you didn't have it handy. Geco was one of several reputable German arms makers in the pre-WW2 period, making a variety of models, much as Winchester, Remington, and Stevens were doing in the U.S. There is not much collector interest in most of the sporting models, but there is a fair interest in the models resembling the Kar98k German service rifle. These are considered to be secondary martial arms and seem to have a good demand. These have stocks similar to the Kar98k rather than sporter style stocks, and any military "waffenamt" marks are a plus. Values on the sporter versions don't seem to fit much of a pattern, due to weak demand. Best bet would be to take it to a gun show in your area where you have a good chance of having somebody interested in such things spot you carrying it. Gun shops in your area may or may not have anybody who knows anything about these...(but they may know more than I do). Hope you find out more... John Spangler

# 9 - British Pattern 1907 Bayonet
10/14/96
Bill Rogers Earth2bill@aol.com

I have a old bayonet. I would like to know what gun it was used with and it's value. The bayonet is 21-1/2 inches long overall with a 4-7/8 inch handle. The blade is 7/8 inches wide, curved to a point at the end. The hole in the hilt for the rifle barrel is 5/8 inches in diameter. At the butt of the handle is a inverted "T" slot that is used to connect the handle to the rifle. The blade has the markings XOA with a arrow point above the O on one side. On the other side is an MA and below it 1907 and below that 3 43. The end of the wood handle is a metal butt which is marked D 33981. >From my description, can you tell what make it is? And it's value? Thanks, Bill Rogers

Answer:
Bill, you have a British Pattern 1907 bayonet made for use with the No. I Mark III Short Magazine Lee Enfield (SMLE) rifles. These .303 British rifles are relatively cheap and plentiful, often selling for under $100. They were the standard arm of the British empire during WWI and most of WW2. The bayonets, like the rifles, were made by the millions in numerous plants around the empire. Your was made in Australia in March 1943. The arrow is the "Broad Arrow" mark indicating government ownership. The D33981 is either a serial number, or more likely a unit marking of little significance. Some collectors take delight in finding obscure variations of this model bayonet, but even so average version like yours usually fall in the $25-$40 price range depending on condition and type of scabbard... John Spangler

# 10 - Antique Rapier
10/14/96
Rita Buchholz micrlink@earthlink.net

I am an avid sword collector and I purchased a rapier some time ago at an antique store. The clerk at the antique store claimed that the rapier had origins in WW one. On the blade up near the crossguard, a company logo is inscribed : The Pettibone Company. I would like to find out more about this company ( what happened to it, first of all; and then if it really was from WW one ), and if it still exists today, which I myself doubt.

Answer:
Rita, My reference material on swords is weak, but I was unable to find any information on Pettibone Company in Bazilone & McGuinn's "A Directory of American Military Goods Dealers and Makers 1785-1885." Nor did Gardner's "Small Arms Makers" have anything. Probably the best bet would be Bezdek's "American Swords and Sword Makers" It is 600 plus pages, but organized in such a way that I was unable to find anything in a brief search. You may have already checked this. If not, and you are an avid sword collector, I would strongly recommend you get a copy, which runs about $75. I know there was some U.S. military procurement of "fencing equipment" in the WWI period, which included both bayonet and sword equivalents. I know a lot about the bayonet fencing equipment, but nothing about the sword stuff, although they seem to have shared the same protective masks, gloves, etc. You might try a letter to "Man at Arms" Magazine P.O. Box 460, Providence, RI 02865 Good luck,... John Spangler

# 11 - 1907-15 Remington 8mm Labell
10/14/96
Jim sypolt@avalon.imagixx.net

Gun Collectable. Question about 1907-15 Remington 8mm Labell, barrel length 17inches. Markings RAG 1907-15. No serial number found. Would like to know any information or history you have on this gun. Also, if ammo is available and the value of this gun, if any, as a collectable. Thank You. Jim

Answer:
Jim, your French Lebel probably has little collector interest or value. Until recently it was thought that these were made during WWI in very small numbers by Remington (just a few thousand rifles). However, subsequent research in the Remington archives has shown that they were made in the 1920s in much larger numbers, apparently for issue to colonial forces. The contract did not call for these to be serial numbered. They were made with a 31.4 inch barrel, and many, like yours, have been cut down over the years to make inexpensive hunting rifles. Ammo is pretty hard to find, except for some French surplus stuff that is not suitable for hunting, and has Berdan primers making it also impractical to reload. Collectors are somewhat interested in the full length version of these, but few would have any interest in one that has been cut down. Value is probably well under $100. Sorry it didn't turn out to be a priceless treasure. Thanks for asking... John Spangler

# 14 - M-81 Swiss Veterelli
10/14/96
Henry Cook - tobyjr@accesscomm.net

on top of butt d6+c1

1-age of gun? 2-WW-II vantage? 3-value?

Answer:
Henry, you've got a Swiss Veterelli, just like several other people (see answer below). Most of these had been sold off as surplus prior to WW2, although I think some remained in Swiss reserve stocks then. Remember, though, that the Swiss were neutral in WW2, so none of these would have seen combat anyway!... John Spangler.

# 12 - Swiss Veterelli Rifle
10/14/96
Roy Star - rstar@connecti.com

On the left side of the reciever: + MW 115xxxthis is a tubular magazine fed bolt action rifle, probaly military. All partshave serial numbers. Total length=51.25 inches. Looks like both rim & centerfire. What do I have?When & where was it made?Does it have any collector interest or value?

Answer:
Roy, It sure sounds like you have one of the Swiss Veterelli rifles made about 1881-1889 in .41 rimfire. As I recall they had dual firing pins, so it might look like they are both rimfire and centerfire. Lots of these were imported as surplus in the early 1900s, and again in the 1960s. (I remember a friend in junior high school ordered one through the mail (legal then) for $9.95, and it was flat brand new!) Ammo was made in the U.S. until about 1942 but is unavailable now. There is limited collector interst in these, and I have seen them frequently in the $100-150 price range, but even then they are slow movers. Recommend you enjoy it as a nice wall hanger that no one is likely to be able to shoot... John

# 7 - Walther G-43 Rifle
10/13/96
DEREK SELTZER - derekseltzer@worldnet.att.net

ac-44 with 2 bomb ord.marks on receiver

Can you give me a history on this rifle. I have heard they were sniper arms and noted that there is a side rail for scope mounting. I love shooting this rifle and am searching for a bio on its history. also, any info on how to obtain scope\mount and any books written would be helpful. thanks

Answer:
Derek, Your G43 was used by many German troops, and it was pretty successful, although not quite up to the "Finest Battle Implement Ever Devised" praise that Gen Patton gave to the U.S. M1 Garand rifle. All of the G43s included the rail on the side so a scope could be mounted (All our M14 rifles were made with a screw hole and three small locating ribs for mounting a scope.) However, that does not automatically make every rifle that can take a scope a sniper rifle. Scopes and mounts were made and issued in limited numbers to specially trained troops. Peter Senich's book "The German Sniper" discusses these in great detail. Original scopes (ZF-4) and mounts are somewhere around $500 to $700, if you can find one. SARCO in New Jersey sells a pretty good reproduction mount, and one of the Russian sniper scopes from the Mosin Nagant rifles that sells for less than $100 is similar in size, and would probably be satisfactory if you don't want to wait for an original. I do not know of any source of information to track the history of individual German weapons, unless they are GI souvenirs accompanied by "capture papers". I think that a reprint of the manual for the G43 has been available for a few bucks, but don't know the source. Maybe a note on the Century Arms page (see our links) would turn one up, and possibly a scope and mount... John Spangler

# 4 - Stevens Model 94
10/11/96
Double-A - doublea@dailyxpress.infi.net

'12 J R' on inside of reciever and on barrel.

Found this shotgun in an old garage (very rusted condition, Butt stock missing). My question is over what period were these manufactured, possible brief history? Is it worth restoring and if so, where might I be able to find replacement parts? Thanks and hope to hear something soon.

Answer:
Aldo, Aprox 934,000 Stevens model 94's were made from 1926 to 1945. There is little or no collector interest in the Stevens model 94 and I have seen them at garage sales in excellent condition for as little as $25.00. My advise is do not waste your time or money trying to restore your Stevens... Marc

# 3 - Model 1934 Beretta Pistol
10/10/96
sibb54@ix.netcom.com Jean Scibila

Dear Sir, I recently came into possession of a Beretta pistol which I believe is a M34.It has a 3 1/2" barrel, black bakalite grips marked "PB" and is well machined and well blued. Quality of finish is higher than many later specimens I've seen. The left side has no markings except for a flying eagle and crown device on the frame beneath the hammer. On the right side the slide and frame exhibit the serial # G36XXX. Below the frame serial # is the legend "cal.9"(I believe it's 9mm kurz).Below the hammer is a large Nazi eagle and swastika device. The pistol is in 100% condition. Could you give me some information on the markings and some idea of approximate value? Thank you,

Answer:
Len, the 1934 Beretta was manufactured by Fabrica d'Armi Beretta in Gardone, Italy, for the Royal Italian Army form 1934 until the 1943 armistice, and then to war's end for the Italian Socialist Republic armed forces and occupying Germans. According to records about 19,000 - 1934 Berettas with an AA or BB suffix were manufactured for the Germans in 1943, 44 or 45. It is likely that 1934 Berettas captured by occupying Germans form the Royal Italian armed forces were reissued to the Germans. I have records of 1934 Berettas with an eagle over a swastika, or an eagle over a swastika over the marking WaA162 stamped on the left side of the grip tang. I can find no mention of Nazi markings stamped on the right side of the frame. According to Fjestad's Blue Book of Gun Values, a 1934 Beretta in 100% condition is worth $350.00, but I think that a more realistic price would be $275.00. Fjestad lists no premium for Nazi markings... Marc

# 2 - Unknown 7.62x39 Pistol
10/9/96
Pete Wisda - petewisda@internetmci.com

Can you tell me about the semi auto 7.62x39 pistol I have heard about? I need the name of the manufacturer importer or US manufacturer any specs you can dig up. One guy I spoke to said it was available during 1980 by Olympic or Mitchell arms but I couldn't reach them. Another guy remembers doing a transfer of such a weapon and to check out Russian gun publications for info . Where would I get those? Thanks for your help.

Answer:
Pete, my understanding of the "7.62x39 pistol" saga is that a U.S. manufacturer made about 4 as prototypes, I think in late 1994 or early 1995. I don't recall the maker for certain, but think it was a single shot model, perhaps the big maker, maybe someone else. Anyway, the BATF folks got all excited and immediately declared 7.62x39 ammo to be "pistol ammo" and any steel core versions were declared armor-piercing, hence "Cop killer" bullets and illegal for further importation or sale. (BATF memo went out to all dealers announcing this.) The fact that the total number of pistols in that caliber was four prototypes as opposed to tens of thousands SKS and pre-ban AK-47 semi-autos was irrelevant. A nice example of the law of unintended consequences--- someone made something just to try out, and it ended up eliminating cheap ammo for thousands of shooters. As to where to find a pistol in this caliber- I don't think they ever went into production. Say, you aren't one of those anti-gun types looking for "evidence" to harass gun owners, are you? Just kidding, I hope... John.

# 1 - Iver Johnson Cadet 55-SA
10/9/96
ELG777@aol.com

What was the production start up date for this revolver with a half dime gunsight? how many of these guns were manufactured per year? approx.? Do you have any literature on this revolver?

Answer:
Iver Johnson started producing firearms in 1871 and continued until early 1993 when operations ceased. The Cadet has no ejector, a 2 1/2 inch barrel, fixed sites and came with plastic grips. The Cadet came in 5 different calibers, .22LR, .22WRM, .32S&W, .38S&W and .38 Special, it was produced from 1955 to 1984. There is very little collectors interest in Iver Johnson firearms and values for a Cadet are in the $50.00 range... Marc

# 33 - Double Barreled Muzzle Loading Real Twist Rifle
10/6/96
Diana Hilliard - hilliar@mail.io.org

We have a double barreled muzzle loading rifle used by my husband's great great grandfather during the Civil War (Tennessee). It has been restored and fired once since restoration. I'd love to know more about this gun, including an approximate value. The only markings on it are the words Real Twist on the strip between the barrels. It does have some engraved decorations on it, although they are rather worn. Can you tell me anything? Dianan Hilliard

Answer:
Diana, your gun is a priceless heirloom to family members, but to other collectors double barrel muzzle loading [shot]guns, even in firing condition. are worth relatively little. Usually in the $100-300 range, depending on maker, condition, and quality. You say it is a rifle, and there were some double barrel rifles made, but "real twist" is a term usually associated with shotguns. "Twist" or "Damascus" barrels were supposed to be strong because of the different steels hammered and welded together, forming an attractive "twist" pattern. Maybe they were stronger than some of the early barrels made from a single sheet of low grade iron or steel, but today we treat "twist" or "Damascus" barrels as very unsafe. (Due to their tendency to corrode and weaken). Shotgun barrels are usually very thin (probably about 1/16 inch at the muzzle. Rifle barrels are much thicker (probably at least 1/8 inch, and often much thicker), and often octagonal instead of round on the outside. Some Confederate troops did use double barrel shotguns during the Civil War, either with long (26-32 inch) barrels, or cut to about 15-24 inch length for use by mounted troops. There were even a few bayonets made to fit over the double barrels! I'd really like to know the barrel length of your gun. "Real Twist" is the sort of marking applied by makers to lower quality guns (especially when they didn't put their own names on them) to try to convince buyers that they were getting a lot more gun for their money. If it has a bayonet, or there is a photo of Grandpappy in uniform holding it, Civil War collectors would be very excited about it. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a high dollar value, and it should be prized as a family piece... John

# 27 - Remington 41RF O/U Derringer
10/6/96
Claude Flambourari - flambour@imaginet.fr

Model 03 made c.1934 in mint condition

This model lacks the ribs usually seen on this type of derringer. It is known that only 500 of this type have been produced. Why this lack ?Be aware that model B0L92753 (later)shows the ribs. So, my question is : is this like a production error or a new feature not applied to all the remaining production. Thanks for help.

Answer:
Claude, Sorry to take so long, we were trying to find an answer for you but we could not find anything useful. Remington arms are one area that is seriously lacking in good reference books (Exceptions being Janzen's book on Bayonets of the Remington Cartridge Period, and Myszkowski's work on Remington Lee rifles.) Karr's book on Remington Handguns gives only general coverage on the double barrel derringer. Other books on handguns don't do any better. I even reviewed my files of the Remington Society of America (RSA) Journal (unfortunately only covering the last four years) and found only information on European copies of them. Although primarily responding to other RSA members, the journal has a question and answer section. You might want to send you question to REMSHOTS, Mr. Leon Wier, 8268 Lone Feather Lane, Las Vegas, NV 89123, USA. Sorry we couldn't do a better job for you... John

# 32 - WWII German K98k CE Code Rifle
10/3/96
Dave Robinson dave.robinson@mci.com

I recently acquired a WWII German K98k rifle. The manufacturer code is CE. The date of manufacture stamped on the receiver ring is 43. All the serial numbers match on all parts and the bore is near mint condition. The overall condition is very good+ with all waffenamts still intact. A man I ran into at a gun show in Dallas said CE was the factory code for J.P. Sauer and they were sort of rare. Was he right? If not, which factory used the CE code? What would the approximate value of this rifle in the condition described be? What the heck is that big metal disk that is in the center of the buttstock with the hole through to the other side used for? Thanks for your help. Dave

Answer:
Dave, your contact at the gunshow is correct, ce is the WW-II German ordnance code assigned to J. P. Sauer & Sohn, Waffenfabrik, Suhl, Germany. My sources, indicate that in 1943 J. P. Sauer manufactured 336,534 K98k rifles, so the rarity of your rifle is not all that high. A K98k in the condition that you describe should sell for between $350.00 and $375.00. If you want to sell your rifle, there is a question from a WWII reactor (Ryan Mueller Ryan23@sltic.com) on this Q&A page who is trying to find one. The metal disk that you asked about is called the stock disassembly disk, it is used when dissembling the bolt... Marc

# 23 - Phoenix Sure-Shot 22
10/2/96
Erwin Splittgerber - framus19@Klink.Net

Pat.Appl'd Foris the only other marking The rifle is identical to the "Stevens" "Side Leaver" Crack Shot.The early version with the thumb safety

Is it a "J.Stevens" or a proto type for a company that was bought out by "Stevens"

Answer:
Another good question here from Erwin! Being able to identify it closely with the Stevens "Crack SHot" early model with thumb safety is a big help. However we still don't have all the answers! I can not find Stevens using the name Phoenix, although it had been used previously by Whitney Arms Co. for a rolling block design. Jim Perkins' "American Boys Rifles 1890-1945" is the best overall source on this field, and we don't find a match there. Jay Kimmel's "Savage & Stevens Arms: Collector's History" didn't have the answer either. So here is what we do know: First: it sure seems to be a Stevens Model 16 Crackshot, early type with thumb safety, as made circa 1900-1911. Second: Stevens used "Sure Shot" as the name for one of its early (and unsuccessful) models around 1895. That adds to a Stevens connection. Third: Stevens did make a lot of guns with various brand names, and Perkins had observed and reported three used for the Model 16- "The Keystone, The .22 Marvel, and The .22 Spencer". He implies that there may be others he had not seen. My guess is that you have one! I know there are a lot of collectors who specialize in "Boy's Rifles" and maybe one of them can confirm, or disprove this theory. Amazing to consider that 75 year ago (and even more recently) nearly every kid 10 and older had their own gun, but didn't go around shooting people with them, either on purpose or accidentally. If guns were common and the problems were less, it sound like the anti-gun crowd is aiming at the wrong target... John Spangler

# 29 - Parker Double Barrel Shotgun
10/2/96
sterigen@wavenet.com

What is best source of appraisal information? Does Parker still function as a gun manufacturer?

Answer:
We have a problem here. The biggest is that I know very little about Parkers! However, the second is that my references indicate that Parker Bros, Meridan, Connecticut who operated from the 1860s to 1942 didn't make any shotguns in .410 gauge. Since you don't have the gun with you right now, I can only offer a few suggestions: First, although marked "Parker" it may have been made by another firm hoping to fool people into thinking it was a "real" Parker. (Look carefully, sometimes "Barker" is used instead. Second, it could be something made by one of several firms which subsequently produced arms using the Parker name after the original company ceased operations in 1942. Third option might be that your memory is playing tricks and it is really a 20 gauge, which Parker did make. An appraisal would be impossible without seeing the gun. Someone needs to determine if it is a "real Parker", and then which model and grade it is. (They had a bunch, and changed the designations several times.) Lower grade guns in good condition could be valued as low as maybe $200, while really pristine high grade pieces with special features might bring several thousand dollars. There are some collectors who specialize in older shotguns who could give you good advice. You might want to take it to a gun show in your area and see what people there can tell you. Look for someone with similar stuff on their table, or ask people if they know any shotgun collectors. Get several opinions, as some people might know even less than I do, and you sometimes find unethical people who will say something is "junk" just to get you to sell it cheap! Of course, there is some nice looking "junk" out there, so you may be getting good information, even if it isn't what you wanted to hear. Good luck, hope it turns out to be good news... John Spangler

# 28 - Model 1866 Winchester
10/2/96
Dennis Barhorst - Dennis-Judy@postoffice.worldnet.att.net

Any info at all would be nice. I just acquired the gun and need info. thank you

Answer:
Dennis, you've got a prize there! Your Model 1866 Winchester was made in 1881 and it is a highly sought after collector's item. About 170,000 were made between 1866 and 1898, all in .44 rimfire caliber. (Ammo basically can't be found anymore, so forget about shooting it!) The 20 inch barrel is standard for the Carbine, so yours should properly be called a carbine instead of a rifle, and should have a saddle ring mounted on the left side of the frame. Flayderman's guide (5th ed, my 6th edition is somewhere else right now) said these are worth about $1,000 in NRA antique Good up to about $3,500 in NRA antique Fine, probably a little more now. Again, condition is very important in determining value. One piece of advice. No matter how much your wife hollers, do not let anyone polish the brass on your rifle! It may look better on the wall all shiny, but collectors hate it and it really hurts the value. Take care of that, and you should probably get it insured. What do you know about the history, is it an old family piece, or just a "gun" that you picked up somewhere? Congratulations on your acquisition. Take care of it!... John Spangler

# 31 - Winchester Model 1892 Rifle
10/2/96
warren winkler - shorty.winkler@maqs.net

I have a question about a gun for a friend: It's a Winchester 25-20 Oct Barrel 1/4" stock. #s.n. 481091 Pat. Oct. 14 1884 overall length. is 42" Barrel length 23 1/2" This gun is in excellent cond. and works very well- although it has not been shot for 30 years. Could you tell me if this gun is worth much and if it is a rare find or just a run of the mill gun/ Thank you so much Warren Winkler

Answer:
Warren, your Model 1892 Rifle was made in 1909. The 1884 patent date and 24 inch barrel are standard for this model, although the octagon barrel is not as common. There are a whole bunch of small details that can affect the the value for collectors on these 1892s. Of course the most important is condition, although the caliber will also influence how strong the demand might be for your friend's rifle. 25-20 isn't one of the more popular calibers today with shooters, so probably most interest would come from collectors. They can be pretty picky about condition, and any changes, like new sights, (scope mount holes drilled in the receiver (ugh!!) or sling swivels added can drastically reduce value. Norm Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms (5th ed) shows a retail value of about $300 in NRA antique Very Good to $750 in NRA excellent. Overall it is closer to a "rare find" than to "run of the mill" but not one to get too excited about... John

# 30 - Mauser K98k
10/1/96
Ryan23@sltic.com Ryan Mueller

I am a beginning WWII reenactor, and I am having trouble finding a rifle. I am looking for a WWII Mauser 98K(K98), standard infantry service rifle. I was wondering if you sell these, or if you know of any companies/businesses that do? Thank you for your time, Ryan P.S. What is the price on a rifle of that type, that is in firing condition?

Answer:
Ryan, a lot of people really enjoy reenacting, and learn a lot about the history of the units and events they portray. However, we are not into that aspect of arms history. Probably the best source of information on where to get necessary items would be other members of the group you will be participating with. I know some even have small quantities of "loaners" to help people getting started. Here are some possible ideas for you to check out. First, find a local dealer or collector with a Federal Firearms License who is willing to order a gun for you. They usually charge a small fee for this service (seems like $10 to 10% is common amount). They can order from one of the big import firms like Century, (St Albans, VT) or Springfield Sporters, (Penn Run PA). They know how to do the paperwork with the importer, and the necessary forms to transfer it legally to you. That's the easy part. It is a little harder to get something that will exactly satisfy your needs. When ordering by mail, you get whatever is on the top of the pile, sometimes real nice, sometimes pretty doggy, and it is difficult or impossible to return things. A premium charge of $10-20 for "special selection" is reported by some customers to be a good investment, and by others to be a waste of money. Of course, if a dealer ordered something specifically for you, you are be pretty much stuck with it. Make sure you agree about return privilege before you order anything. Therefore, it is better to find one locally so you can inspect it before you buy it!. If you are not sure what to look for, have someone smart about K98k Mausers go with you to all the local gun shops, and attend nearby gun shows. I would expect that you can find a K98k Mauser with mismatched parts, but usable for reenacting somewhere under $150, but be prepared to spend up to about $450 for a real nice matching one that collectors would be interested in. Don't give up, there are plenty out there now. However, since they have bayonet lugs, and are military arms, they may be on the next list of evil "assault weapons" to be banned. Sounds ridiculous, but the anti-gun politicians don't know (or care) about the historical aspect of old arms. They just want to look busy fighting crime (without inconveniencing any criminals). If you want to keep any guns in the future, you should make a generous donation now to the NRA-Political Victory Fund, or NRA Institute for Legislative Action. Timing is critical!... John Spangler

# 26 - Thompson Auto- Ordnance 1911 Pistol
10/1/96
pprince@Traveller.COM Jim Golemo

A friend of mine has just purchased a .45 .cal hand gun and has asked me to see if I can help him get any information about this weapon. I did a little net surfing and came across your home page and thought that I would contact you and see if you could help me. I was unable myself to find out anything about the Company that had manufactured it. The markings are as follows: Thompson Auto- Ordnance Corp West-Hurley, N.Y. .45 Cal. S/N - AOC 7XXX We had taken the gun apart and did not find any patent numbers or dates on any parts of the gun. He is trying to find out how old is it and if the weapon was first sold to the military. He is trying to find out as much history about this gun as he possibly can get. As for maintenance...I told him that a 45 is a 45 and all parts are interchangeable. He still would like to find any manuals and operating instructions that might have been sent with the gun. I hope that you can give me a few idea's as to where and how I could get some of this information. All help will be well appreciated. Thanks. jim

Answer:
Jim, Thompson Auto- Ordnance Crop. is a company that produces semi automatic copies of the Thompson Sub Machine Gun and has been producing inexpensive copies of the 1911A1Colt since the late 1980s or early 1990s. All parts of the Thompson 1911A1 are suppose to be fully interchangeable with original Colt parts. As far as I have been able to determine, no Thompson Auto- Ordnance 1911A1 pistols have ever been procured for the US Military. As for operating instructions, if you write Thompson Auto- Ordnance West-Hurley, N.Y, they will be able to supply you with a manual... Marc