# 944 - Iver Johnson Champion
11/28/97
Bryce

Mfg's name stamped on frame: "Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works Fitchburg,Mass., U.S.A. CHAMPION"Barrel markings: "410 GAUGE CHOKE BORE BARREL AND LUG FORGED IN ONE-Pat'd June 15 15 Pat'd Pending-" When was this gun made? Assuming that it is in VG to EXC condition with a mint bore, what is the approximate value?

Answer:
Bryce- Iver Johnson manufactured inexpensive firearms from 1883 to 1993, the Champion was manufactured from 1909 to 1956. Bluebook Champion values are in the $150 range... Marc

# 935 - M231 Firing Port Weapon
11/28/97
MIke

N/A I would like to know where I can find and exploded parts view of the above mentioned weapon. Thanks

Answer:
Mike- This is a very short version of the full auto M16, intended for firing from inside armored vehicles. They are not something most people will ever see, unless they comply with all the requirements for owning a machine gun. Making one requires special licenses. I think there is some info on these in one of the Army's technical manuals for the M16, but don't remember which one. Frankly, I don't know (or care) much about guns made without wooden stocks and steel parts. Heck, I don't even like cartridge guns all that much! Follow our link to the Century Arms site, and ask on their "Traders Den" message board. They seem to attract folks interested in the more modern stuff... John

# 929 - Shotgun, Iver Johnson 20 GA
11/28/97
Charles

On Barrel: "20 Gauge Choke Bore Barrel and Lug Forged in One" "Pat'd June 15 15 Pat's Pending" On side of Receiver: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works Fitchburg, Mass USA Champion I inherited this little shotgun from my Grandfather via my Uncle. Is it worth anything? I've been thinking of refinishing it. I am aware that this can destroy the value of a collectible gun, so I'd like to know before I proceed any further (lest I have irate collectors come and beat some sense into me...) On the off chance that it is worth something, what kinds of refinishing are considered kosher? I wanted to at least strip the stock (it appears to be walnut, but someone has finished it with a horrid orange colored varnish or paint. I'd like to remove that and put a simple linseed oil finish on it). If this is a "cheap" gun, then I'll probably hand checker the stock after cleaning it and maybe even try some engraving on the gun itself.

Answer:
Charles- There is virtually nothing you can do to this gun to reduce its value. Go ahead and refinish, checker, or whatever else you want to do. It was made sometime after 1891, when Iver Johnson moved their operation to Fitchburg, and perhaps as late as 1948 when they were still being advertised in the Stoeger's catalog. Being 20 GA, my hunch is that it is probably more like 1920s to 40s vintage... John Spangler

# 904 - Fenton-London Long Gun
11/28/97
Marven

London Fenton What is the age and value ?

Answer:
Marven- Wish we could help, that 43 in ch barrel sounds like it might be a Brown bess or other early piece. However, unless you send us some pictures (Box 711282, Salt Lake City, UT 84171) or a much better description. We realize this is tough for non-gun people sometimes, but we cannot do much more than guess at this point. I could not find any listing for Fenton in my references. We can positively say it is old, and probably worth between $5 and $5000... John Spangler

# 902 - Belgian Pistol
11/28/97
Robert

Belgian proof ELG in circle. Crown over an H on barrel. Two dots over what appears to be a P inside cap of engraved grip cap. I know about the Belgian proof mark, however cannot find information on the other two. Can you help?

Answer:
Robert- Afraid we cannot help on this one. If we had a picture it would make life a lit easier. Sorry... John Spangler

# 931 - Model 1916 Spanish Mauser
11/25/97
Kevin

I've got an older Mauser rifle that's been driving me buggy lately. It's the first gun I purchased long ago. I remember being told it was a Spanish Mauser from the mid 1920's. It has been rechambered for .308. I assume that many had this modification done and they have little value. The barrel, receiver, bolt, floorplate, and the forward part of the triggerguard (in front of the floor plate) have the serial number OT-52XXX (the bolt has the first two characters omitted).There seem to be no proof marks on it other than a "C" and either a Y or Z in a circle on the follower. I am not able to remove the stock to see anymore. The barrel is stamped on the bottom about two inches from the muzzle "OVIEDOSPAIN MIY" and Samco Mia Fl 308" It has the original (looking) stock with the serial number penciled on the bottom of the handguard. There's mild pitting there as well. Please tell me what you can about it. Thanks, Kevin

Answer:
Kevin- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. Your Mauser rifle is the Model 1916 Spanish Mauser, made at the Spanish Arsenal ot Oviedo. They are basically identical to the earlier Spanish Model 1893/1895 as far as the action goes, but with different barrel lengths. The Spanish military forces used these I WW1, and WW2although they adopted the 98 Mauser action for their rifles made in 1943and later. The Spanish converted many of them to fire .308 size cartridges in the1960s or 70s, after they had adopted the CETME rifle as their standard arm. It is my understanding that the CETME used a cartridge that was dimensionally interchangeable with the 7.62 NATO/.308 Winchester, but loaded to lower pressures which the CETME was designed for. The Model 1893 Mauser action is not as strong as the Model 1898, and I do not have a real high regard for the quality of Spanish technology or gunmaking. I personally would never fire one of the Spanish Mausers converted to .308. However, these were imported in large numbers and sold for many years and I have not heard of any serious accidents, so either no one ever shoots them or they may work okay. I still see them for sale at low prices ($100-200 range). We do not comment on safety of any specific gun for firing. You should have it checked by a competent gunsmith prior to firing. Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 930 - Cup Fire Plant's Army Revolver Cartridges
11/25/97
John H.

I have ten .36 cup fire Plant's Army Revolver Cartridges (Unfired). I was told by a cartridge collector that all of his literature that gave prices for these stated that there are no known specimens in .36. Is this something that you would be able to appraise?Thank You

Answer:
John- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. A check of my references failed to turn up anything on this cartridge. I found mention of .28 and .30 caliber cupfires, and a .42 caliber Plantcupfire with .410 case diameter. I couldn't locate my copy of Charles Suydam's "U.S. Cartridges and their Handguns" which might be a very helpful reference on this topic. Suggest you submit an inquiry to International Ammunition Association(IAA), c/o Robert Buttweiler (name sound familiar?) Box 721793, Houston, TX, 77272. He does the ammunition page in Gun report. A good quality closeup photo and complete dimensions taken by micrometer to 3 decimal places would get a good answer. Make sure you include at least the overall length, and the outside diameter of the case, plus any other dimensions you think might help. I am a member of the IAA, but my files do not go back too far, and frankly never paid much attention to much other than the US military ammo. Hope this helps. If these are a hitherto unknown variation, you might have several hundred dollars worth of ammo!... John Spangler

# 928 - Mauser Rifle- RYCHNER & AAARAU
11/25/97
Larry, Lynn, Ma., U.S.

Mauser type rifle with the following markings: HCH RYCHNER + AAARAU 10719 The above markings are all that are on this rifle. It belongs to a friend of mine who got it from his father. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
Larry- Many more questions like this and my mind reader's certification will be taken away. These are not names we recognize. I suspect the HCH is an abbreviation for Heinrich, a German name, so it may be a custom Mauser rifle built by or for Heinrich Rychner. A lot of these sporters, with various makers/owners names on them were brought back into the US by GIs returning from WW2 duty in Europe as souvenirs or "War Trophies." There is no way to research most of them, and they are valued mainly as shooting arms. Unfortunately many are in strange calibers that you cannot easily get ammo for, and many have stock designs that do not appeal to American shooters. Wish we could tell you more, but my crystal ball is getting cloudy again... John Spangler

# 923 - Shotgun, W.W. Greener
11/25/97
Matthew Boles, Roswell, GA

I am looking for both historical and value information on this gun.

Answer:
Matthew- WW Greener was one of the better makers of the late 19th century, but they did make guns in varying grades from plain to extremely ornate. However, the fact that yours has a spare set of barrels indicates it is of better than average quality. I do not have any serial number data on Greeners, so I cannot give a good date of manufacture. I would guess somewhere between 1880 and 1910. These should be examined by someone who specializes in high grade double barrel shotguns to give you the information you need. I would suggest that you take it to one of the larger/better gun shows in Atlanta and see what the dealers there can tell you. Leave it in the car at first, walk through until you see dealers with similar items and then take it to them. Otherwise every bubba and his hunting dog will stop and want to play with it and most won't have any idea what they are looking at. Good luck! This is probably the nicest double barrel shotgun that anyone has asked about in the last year... John Spangler

# 921 - Norwegian Krag Carbine 6.5x55mm
11/22/97
Dale,Watertown,NY USA

Where can I obtain manuals, books, etc. on the rifle? Additionally, where could I purchase accessories for the weapon to complete it for collectiblity?

Answer:
Dale- Those are great guns, with a very smooth action and a wonderful caliber and you can now get ammo fairly easily. Collector interest has always been high in these, but I am not sure why. There is very little info about them other than what you can find in "Small Arms of the World", and in "The Krag Rifle Story" by Frank Mallory (out of print) and in the late Bill Brophy's "The Krag Rifle." About the only accessories I have seen are bayonets, but even those are pretty scarce, and usually unrecognized, even by their owners. Would be nice as part of a collection of 6.5x55mm service rifles that wouldn't cost a fortune to get, but would be pretty interesting. You might post a wanted on our free "Wants" page and on the Century Arms Traders Den message board looking for anything related to Norwegian Krags. Good luck... John Spangler

# 913 - Remington M1903A3 Rifle
11/22/97
ron,San Diego,ca.

How old and what caliber? Any value? defects, characteristics? I have just inherited and would like to know something about it. Thanks Ron

Answer:
Ron- Remington Model 1903A3 rifles were all made in .30-06 caliber, and about 700,000 were made in 1942, 1943 and 1944. However, unless your rifle actually says "MODEL 03-A3", the serial number indicates it is probably what is known as a Model 1903 (Modified). These were made with the sights on rear of the barrel, but with many manufacturing shortcuts and more liberal tolerances. Remington made about 365,000 of these from very late 1941 to late 1942. We have a very nice M1903A3 for sale now at $425, and have seen ones that were cut down and reblued sell for little more than $100. The M1903 (Modified) rifles run about the same. Huge numbers of these were sold to NRA members in the early 1960s for as little as $10.00 plus $4.50 shipping (I still got mine!) They are good solid bolt action rifles, not quite as pretty as commercial sporters, but strong and reliable. Some were rechambered or altered by their new owners for different ammunition, so have a competent gunsmith check yours if you intend to fire it, and they can explain how to use it. You have a piece of history. Take care of it... John Spangler

# 900 - Rifle- Percussion A.B. Curtis Target/sniper?
11/22/97
Bob , Orange, VA

Lockplate - None (Backlock Action)Barrel - A B Curtis Any information about the maker - A B Curtis Also, all of the original tang and barrel mounted sights have been removed and replaced by a simple notch and blade sight. Is it possible that this weapon was used as a sharpshooters rifle during the Civil War? I certainly appreciate any assistance you can provide. Thanks

Answer:
Bob- What you call a "bore protector" is probably correctly termed a "false muzzle." This is a piece that attaches to the muzzle, and was rifled at the same time as the rest of the barrel. The rifle was loaded with the false muzzle in place, then it was removed before firing. This ensured that the bullet left the barrel where the rifling was very sharp and not damaged by repeated loading. According the Frank Sellers "American Gunsmiths" A.B. Curtis was listed as a gun maker in Dayton, Ohio, in the 1856 directory, and is known to have made a percussion bench gun with W.W. Hackney. Just like modern shooters have "iron sight" and "any sight" matches, old timers may have used different sights for different matches, or they may have been lost before you got it. The difference between target rifles of the Civil War period and sniper rifles is mainly one of who used them and what they were shooting at. However, the number of "sniper rifles" actually used in combat is teeny-tiny compared to the other types of rifles used. You probably won't have to go to Confession if you describe your rifle as "the type used by snipers in the Civil War." But if you try to claim that it is definitely one that was used that way, you'll go to h--- for sure! There is a great book on rifles like this, "The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle" by Ned Roberts, a famous shooter of the 19th century... John Spangler

# 898 - French Mle AN 9 Flintlock Pistol
11/22/97
Bob, Orange VA 22960

Lockplate - St Etienne (in script)Barrel - A script P proof mark plus C1808Barrel Tang - M (LE in superscript) AN 9 I am trying to determine the Model year of this weapon. The barrel markings indicate a manufacture year of 1808, and I believe the barrel tang is supposed to indicate the Model year, however I cannot figure out the AN 9. I believe the MLE is the French abbreviation for Model. Thanks in advance for your help.

Answer:
Bob- "If they have no bread, let them eat cake!" said Marie Antoinette. I don't remember what the other folks said, but it got cut short by the guillotine when the French Revolution overthrew the monarchy. Now, like most politicians, the new Republican government (note- no relation to the Republicans in the US) had to do something highly visible real quick to make people think they were busy solving all the world's problems. Anyway, on November 24, 1793 they established the Republican Calendar, retroactive to September 22, 1792, dumping the Gregorian calendar everyone else used. This scheme lasted until December 22, 1805, when Napolean restored the Gregorian calendar to official use. All French small arms made between 1793 and 1805 were marked with the AN (for Annum or Ano, or something meaning year) and the year from the Republican calendar. AN 9 was September 1802 to September 1803 by our calendar. Several models were adopted that year so that is seen frequently. You are correct that "Mle" is the abbreviation for the French equivalent of "Model". The C1808 probably indicates some sort of modification, as the French were fond of wine, women, and adding lots of markings to guns, especially when modified. Be careful on the old French single shot military pistols. There have been a lot on the market in the last 20 years with old markings that looked suspiciously fresh... John Spangler

# 919 - Stevens Tip-Up Rifle
11/18/97
Mac

This rifle has a octagonal barrel 26 1/8 inches long. The front sight is a rounded blade, and the rear is a V notch blade. It has a release button on the left side of the receiver that releases the barrel, as it is a breech loading rifle. The trigger guard is very ornate, and continues further back on the stock as a finger rest for the other 3 fingers. It has a very high cheekrest on the stock, and a very curved butt with a nickel plated buttplate. The barrel does not have a forestock or handgrip of any kind. It is stamped on the left side of the barrel, near the chamber: J.Stevens, A&T Co.,Chicopee Falls, Mass. USA Pat.Sept.6,1864.It appears to be a saddle rifle, and has no sling eyes or swivels. Does this rifle have historical or collectable value? I have had the misfortune of having been burglarized before, and would like some idea of the value strictly for insurance purposes.

Answer:
Mac- Thanks for the good description, it sure helps get you a good answer. The Stevens Tip-Up rifle was made from about 1870 to about 1895. There were about 16 variations, each assigned a model number, (from 1 to 16) often found stamped on the lower tang and visible when you lift the lever up. Models 1 through 6 and 15-16 were made without wooden forends, while 7 through 14 had wooden forends. Barrel lengths ranged from 24 to 30 inches, and calibers from .22 rimfire through .44 centerfire. Nickel plated frames and buttplates were pretty standard. There was a "Ladies' Model" made with a slightly smaller frame, but otherwise of the same general style. The high cheekpiece and extremely curved butt sound like it is one of the "Schutzen" target models, which might be a little more desirable for some collectors. Flayderman lists values of the Models 1-6, 15, 16 as $225 in NRA Antique very good to $475 in Excellent. The fancier models 7-14 run $325-700 in the same condition, and the Ladies' Models run anywhere from $400 to $1,750 depending on exact model and condition. If you have been burgled before, it will probably happen again. Get a ferocious sounding dog, some timers for your lights, a good alarm system, and maybe a safe too. Then get our Collection Inventory Starter Kit (see ad at the end of our firearms page) so you will have information to file insurance claims or prove to the police that the guns belong to you if the burglars hit again, or your house burns down... John Spangler

# 918 - Charleville Muskets In The Revolution
11/18/97
Ed Syracuse NY

Were either of these two models used by American troops in the American Revolutionary war?

Answer:
Ed- Yes, both the 1763 and 1777 Charleville models were used by American troops in the Revolutionary war. These were then closely copied by Springfield and Harpers Ferry Armories when the US began musket production for our army sometime after 1795. Those supplied to the Americans during the Revolution were often marked (usually after the war) by stamping or branding "US", "U States" or "United States" on various parts. These are known as "US Surcharged" pieces and very popular with collectors. (I found one in Montana last year). However, many of the surcharges are fake, so be careful out there. George Moller's multi-volume definitive work "American Military Shoulder Arms" has a lot on these in volume 1. The Valley Forge National Park Museum features an outstanding display of Revolutionary War arms, the collection of noted author and genuine nice guy, George Neumann. Remember to kick in a few bucks to support the NRA, otherwise the gun-grabbers will be looking for excuses to confiscate and destroy these evil old assault guns with scary long barrels and sharp pointy things on the end. Why children might get hurt by them!... John Spangler

# 917 - Shotgun, Davis Warner 10 GA
11/18/97
Arline, Dallas, TX, US

N. R. DAVIS & SONSAJAXDAVIS WARNER ARMS CORP.NORWICH, CONN. U.S.A. This gun was just given to me by my grandmother. She says it belonged to her father. She grew up on a farm in New York, where this was just another farm tool. With the gun was an old wooden cleaning rod that breaks into three pieces, by unscrewing brass connectors. We have several interesting family heirlooms displayed in our home, and plan to hang this gun over the fireplace, as it is in excellent condition. It would be nice to have an idea of its age and history.

Answer:
Arline- N.R. Davis was one of many makers of inexpensive shotguns circa 1870 to 1917. There were several Warners in the gunmaking business, but I have no record of Davis and Warner as a company name. More likely it was Davis who made the gun, and then marketed by Warner. These were just plain, sturdy guns made for use around the farm, just as you know yours was. Usually they are in rather poor condition, so you are fortunate to have one that is nice, and that has clear family history associated with it. I would guess that yours is most likely from the 1890-1910 period. Enjoy, and pass it on to your grandkids some day. Make sure you teach them about gun safety, like the NRA's Eddie Eagle program- If you see a gun: Don't touch; Leave the area; Tell an adult... John Spangler

# 916 - Destroy A Classic Pre-64 Mod 70? Blasphemy!
11/18/97
Robin

This might be a dumb question but here goes... My father has given me a pre '64 Mod 70 .308 to use deer hunting in eastern NC. I have a lot of experience target shooting 22s and clays with a shotgun but this is my first experience with a large-bore rifle. When I sighted this rifle in it's recoil was more than I expected (though I had been warned and knew basically how much kick it had). It caught and cut me in the collarbone (metal buttplate) big time and after 12 rounds (and four tight groups) I packed it in and went home. My gunsmith has suggested putting a break in the stock. My father is a collector and would probably freak out if I did this but I like the rifle and would like to continue to use it to hunt. Wearing a pad on my shoulder messes up my sight picture because my eye gets too far from the scope. My arms are just not long enough. Before I mention it to him, I figured I'd ask a "non-family" member.) Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
I am afraid that I agree with your father, the pre 64 model 70 is a classic, any modifications will ruin it's collector value and turn it into just another shooter, don't do it. My advise would be that if you want something to shoot, sell the pre 64 to someone who will appreciate it and wants to keep it original, then buy something new and have at it with the modifications. I have heard that the new Winchester mod 70 classics are as good or even better than the pre 64's, you might try one of them... Marc

# 908 - Llama 38 Super
11/14/97
Matt Hufstetler

On the left side of the slide is printed: "LLAMA" GABILONDO Y C IA VITORIA (Espaina) CAL. 9m/m(38) On the right side is: CAL .38 Super Automatic "LAMA" ESPECIAL It has wooden grips. And on the inside of the slide and on the barrel are the numbers:143 and 447 I would like to know when this gun was made, and if there are any known problems with it, or if there is any preventative maintenance I will need to do to it. MH

Answer:
Matt, I have never been a big fan of Llama firearms. My reference books do not list a Model 1911 Llama, but they do show a Government model. If your Llama is a Government model, then it was manufactured after 1988. According to the blue book, values for your Llama fall in the $175.00 range. In my highly prejudiced opinion, the best preventative maintenance that you can do is sell your Llama and buy a Colt... Marc

# 907 - 1911 Colt Collector Value
11/14/97
David, Radford, Virginia

Left side of slide says: Patented April 20, 1897. Sept 9, 1902 COLT Colt PT. F.A. MFG. CO.Dec. 19, 1905. Feb. 14, 1911, Aug. 19, 1913 HORSEHARTFORD, CT. U. S. A.GUN HAS LANYARD LOOP, some minor pitting around the barrel end of the slide. Walnut grips with sharp checkering, but minor rounding over of the pattern due to wear. My father brought this pistol back from service with the 25th Infantry Division In WWII. He was issued the pistol in 1934 at Schofield Barracks in Hawaii, and carried it until he came home in 1944 (after being discharged early in recognition of the number of years served before the war. He told me that because he had very small hands, that he had the regimental armorer change the original trigger to a 1911A short trigger to accommodate his small grip. Does this weapon have value as a collector's item? I really have no desire to sell it, I want to keep it in the family for my son.

Answer:
David, your Colt 1911 (which was manufactured in 1918) sounds like it has a great deal of sentimental value for you and your family. The incorrect 1911A1 type trigger that has been installed will not affect value much, because a correct trigger can be easily substituted. You may want to purchase a correct trigger and set it aside just incase you ever want to return your pistol to original configuration. Blue book values for Colt 1911 pistols manufactured in 1918 range from $375 to over $2000 depending upon condition. The pitting that you describe will definitely effect your Colt's value, as will the amount of original finish remaining. It sounds like you definantly have a pistol that is worth keeping and taking good care of. If you want an exact value for your pistol, we would be happy to provide you with an appraisal, but we would need better information about condition, and some good quality pictures. If you would like to arrange for an appraisal, take a look at our appraisals page... Marc

# 906 - Pedersen Device Info
11/14/97
Steve

I am looking for a source for exploded diagrams or at least disassembly photos of the Pedersen subcaliber conversion device for the Springfield 03. I have found external photos out the gazoo, but have been unable to locate anything with detail of internal parts and mechanical functioning. Any help will be vastly appreciated. Steve DeForrest

Answer:
Steve- You came to the right place. I have a fair amount of information (Thanks to Roy Marcot and the Remington Society of America, for whom I need to do an article on the subject). I think I can provide the information you need from that, or from the device and documentation belonging to a friend. Very desirable collectors items. Wish somebody made a reproduction, or even a dummy so we could all have one to stick in our M1903 Mark I Springfields. I am looking for a device, parts, ammo, carrying case, magazines, in any condition. (No magazine pouches, thanks- have lots of those). If anyone has any of this stuff for sale or trade, I would greatly appreciate hearing about it... Thanks- John Spangler

# 889 - Shotgun, French(?) Mouffeoutrt
11/14/97
GARY

E. Mouffeourt________________ Le Mans This is the closest we can get to the spelling. It is very ornate writing. It also has a picture of a metal worker engraved on the takedown of the barrel. It has the number 2066 engraved on it -- we believe that this would be the production number. We believe it is of French origin. And would like any information you can find or names of anyone else who may be able to provide information on possible value or collector interest. Gary

Answer:
Gary- Sorry, we don't have a clue about this one. Sounds French, but we cannot find any listing for this maker. With a serial number in the 29,000 range, it sounds like a 20th century piece. You need to find someone who knows more about shotguns. Try taking it to a good gun show in your area and look for someone with lots of shotguns and see what they can tell you... John Spangler

# 849 -
11/12/97
Eddie, Star, NC; USA

Ribbed top on barrel Break away hand grip and barrel Solid metal with welded points one piece 1. History of shotgun, 2. When manufactured (date) 3. Is company still in business? If so what is their mailing address.4. Market value of shotgun which is in fair condition

Answer:
Cannon Breech Shotgun Eddie- Your shotgun is one of a huge number of inexpensive guns made between 1880 and 1920 so every farmer in America could afford a gun so they would be able to tell their spouse that they were taking a day off from farming to go hunting, and maybe have something different for dinner. Hopkins and Allen used the trade name "Cannon Breech" on some of their shotguns. They are long out of business and parts for these old guns are not available, and the cost of repairs is usually more than the gun is worth. One in fair condition is probably worth around $50 if someone is looking for something to hang on the wall. Not real valuable collector items, I'm afraid. Keep it for the sentimental value... John Spangler

# 895 - Model 1887 Winchester Shotgun
11/12/97
Scott ,Heron Lake , MN

Date Of manufacture was July 20th 1886 I recently purchased this gun at my grandfathers estate auction. The gun was in tough shape and I really don't know much about it. So what I am looking for is all the information I can find on this gun and learn a little about it. I would also be interested in finding out where I could find parts for the gun, since the gun is missing the hammer.

Answer:
Scott, it sounds like you have a model 1887 Winchester shotgun. According to my records, your Model 1887 (serial number 29,XXX) was manufactured in 1891 (July 20th 1886 is probably a patent date). Approximately 64,855 Model 1887 shotguns were produced by Winchester from 1887 to 1901. The Model 1887 was designed by John Browning and was the first Browning patent shotgun ever manufactured by Winchester. Winchester offered the Model 1887 in 10 or 12 gauge, with 30 or 32 inch full choke barrels and a plain pistol grip stock. Winchester also offered a deluxe model that had a checkered stock and a damascus barrel. For parts try our gunparts links on our links page... Marc

# 894 - Remington Model 1903A3 Magazine
11/12/97
Jay, Dinuba, CA. USA

Sporterized, has trap door magazine, - Is there such a thing as a REMOVABLE MAGAZINE for this gun ?? Thanks, Jay Gillette.

Answer:
Jay- The 1903A3s were all made with a cheap, easily made trigger guard and magazine assembly stamped out of sheet metal. You can use Model 1903 milled trigger guard assemblies that have the floorplate removable if you press the catch with the point of a bullet. Some commercial makers offer hinged floorplate trigger guard assemblies. However, I do not know of anyone that makes a magazine where you can remove the whole magazine with the 5 rounds kept inside of it and then reload a full magazine from the bottom. Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 887 - Pistol From Morocco
11/12/97
Simon, Phila., PA, USA

Known to be 50 yrs. old....looks much older covered in inlays of mother of pearl in something black # 875 on side plate holding hammer, and a character or animal engraved there also My grandfather brought this back from Morocco 50 yrs. ago. It's heavily inlaid and looks 100+ years old. There's a metal rod in a hole at the very front. The pistol is all wooden, except for the barrel, hammer and strikeplate, rod I just mentioned, trigger mechanism, a few screws and pins, and a plate at the butt of the handle. Please tell me anything you can about the history or worth of this item, and/or where I can go for more help. Thanx!

Answer:
Simon- Quite an interesting gun you have there. The North African tribesmen live a harsh life and treasure firearms of any sort, but have very specific tastes about their appearance: Lots of fancy inlay work and usually rather strange looking stocks. The long guns (muskets, or rifles) are usually known among collectors as "Camel guns" while the pistols lack any nickname as far as I know. Some of these guns were made from obsolete European weapons (or parts of various vintages) by local craftsmen, and then used for months or generations by the tribesmen. Others were cobbled together hastily from whatever was handy, pitched in a pile of camel dung to age for a few days, and sold to gullible tourists. Without seeing it, it is hard to tell which yours might be. If brought back during WW2, it may be a real one, if afterwards, it is more likely one made for the tourist trade. The "875" on the lock probably indicates use of a lock made for an Austrian military rifle in 1875. Value on these, genuine or tourist, is not very much, probably in the under $200 range. There are some good gun shows in the Philadelphia area, including the Pennsylvania Antique Gun Collectors Assn. shows in Pottstown (I went to some of their shows when they were held in Norristown in the early 1960s. I would ride the bus or trolley back and forth carrying a gun or sword... don't try that today!) Another good one is in Allentown sponsored by the Forks of the Delaware Gun collectors. Someone at these might be able to tell you more... John Spangler (who grew up in Upper Darby)

# 892 - JC Higgins 22
11/8/97
tom, Charleston, SC, USA,

name and model number on top of barrel I purchased this rifle for $30, and every gunsmith I have been to said they couldn't make a firing pin for it (it had a piece of spoon handle in it for the pin...don't know if it worked, as I preferred not to try it). I finally just took an old planer blade and the dremel and made one that works very nicely. How would I go about replacing this with the proper pin? Any info on the rifle would be nice...and why is there no serial number on it?

Answer:
Tom, prior to the 1968 gun control laws, it was fairly common for inexpensive rifles and shotguns to not be serial numbered. I have a sneaky suspicion about why no gunsmith "could" make a firing pin for you. First, you have to remember that gunsmith's have to pay bills and feed their families just like everyone else does. Now calculate how much time it took you to fashion your firing pin from an old planer blade, I would guess at least one hour, probably longer. Now let's times that one or two hours labor by $25.00 (a ridiculously low hourly wage for a highly skilled craftsman). Viola! You now have a $25 to $50 firing pin without even figuring in the cost of materials, did you say that you paid $30 for the rifle? To find a replacement firing pin try checking the Gun Parts Links and Addresses section on our links page, Good Luck... Marc

# 891 - DWM? 42 Code Luger
11/8/97
Dave H., Phoenix, AZ, USA

The piece has all matching numbers with the exception of the magazines. The receiver is dated 1939. The portion of the toggle directly in front of the thumbgrips is stamped with the number '42'. The left side of the weapon shows no markings other than the full serial # just behind the barrel and the last two digits of the serial on the individual pieces. There is as mall eagle stamped in the forward toggle just in front of the connecting pin. The piece has checked wood grips (also marked '51' on the inside) and has a stock lug. The right side of the weapon shows three Waffenamt eagles; two of which are over the number 655. There is also an additional smaller eagle on the right side of the barrel. The underside of the barrel has the full serial # and the bore size, 8,81. In front and above the trigger guard; directly below the barrel appears the full serial # above a stylized 'y'. The pistol came in a brown leather, full flap holster. This is stamped on the inside of the flap "F.W.KINKEL, MAINZ, 1916. Scratched into the back of the holster is "LT DORMER F-28 INF". Given the scratched in name and unit ID in the back of the holster, I am assuming that this piece was taken as a war trophy. Any help that you could provide towards the proper identification of the weapon, i.e., where it was manufactured and when, is it a common item, and an approximate value would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Answer:
Dave, just about everything in your description is consistent with a WWII - 42- code Luger manufactured by Mauser. 1939 would be the date of manufacture while 42 is a WW-II German ordnance code assigned to Mauser-Werke, Oberndorf am Neckar, Germany. The eagles with 655 are German WW-II Heerswaffenamt inspector's mark placed on arms produced at Mauser Werke AG, Oberndorf am Neckar, Germany. Your description does not state that there are any DWM markings, so why do you list the maker as DWM? If your Luger is a Mauser 42 code, then it is one of the most common types of WWII military Lugers. 42 code Luger values range form $250 to $650 depending upon condition, and you can add another $30 to $100 for the holster. If you would like to sell your Luger let us know, or if you would like an appraisal take a look at our Appraisals page to find out how to arrange for us to do one for you... Marc

# 890 - Remington Model 12 - ? .22 Rifle
11/8/97
Dale, Bellingham WA

On top of barrel is a list of patent dates, ending in April 1912. This .22 rimfire gun was purchased at an estate sale, and it is clearly a Remington model 12 gun, but the model number is not located anywhere that I can see. Therefore, I do not know if it is a Model 12a, 12b or 12c. How does one confirm which specific model this gun is? Thanks very much in advance for any response. Sincerely, Dale D. Jones P.O. Box 28777Bellingham, WA ddjones@nas.com

Answer:
Dale, this is all of the information that I could find on Remington Model 12-? rifles. The Model 12 A was originally named the model 12, it has a 22 inch octagon barrel and a plain walnut grip type stock. The 12-A will chamber 22 short, long or long rifle cartridges. The 12-B is similar to the 12-A except that it is a gallery rifle and is chambered for 22 short cartridges only. The 12-C is similar to the 12- A except that it has a 24 inch octagon barrel. My references also mention models 12-D, E, F, NRA Target and CS (the CS model is chambered in .22WRF). I have had 3 Remington 12-C rifles over the last few years and the model name "12-C" has always been stamped on the top of the barrel just in front of the receiver on mine. That's all I can find, maybe one of our readers will be able to send in some more information... Marc

# 888 - H&R 922
11/8/97
Bob Lyndonville, Vt.

I've recently had the H&R accidentally discharge while checking the action. I want to know more about the design and manufacture of the H&R 922. Some of my questions are when was this gun manufactured, what type of firing system does it employ and are there known instances of this gun accidentally discharging, also, is this considered to be a well designed gun and if not what were its flaws?

Answer:
Bob, I can answer some of your questions and others I can't . According to my records your H&R was manufactured in 1975. Without knowing the actual circumstances leading up to your accidental discharge or being able to inspect your revolver, it is hard for me to say why it occurred. Your accidental discharge could have been caused by design flaws, operator error, broken or worn parts or something else. I would advise you to take your H&R to a competent gunsmith in your area and have him check it for safety. If you find out that your H&R is in need of repair, values for 922's are in the $40.00 range, so the wisest thing to do, would probably be to replace your H&R with a better quality firearm... Marc

# 886 - Winchester 1892 .38-40 SRC
11/5/97
Bruce,New Salisbury,Ind

None The bluing is 70-75% not the 80% of NRA excellent but better than none to 30% of fine. How would you classify it? Also it has a brass blade front sight, is this correct?

Answer:
Bruce- Your rifle was made in the first year of production, 1892. You could get a "factory letter" from the Cody Firearms Museum to document any special features. Most front sights up to about 279,000 were post type sights brazed to the barrel. However, some 4,314 Model 1892s had special order sights, and a brass blad "Rocky Mountain" type brass blade sight could have been a factory item. It also could have been done by a gunsmith or shade tree mechanic at any time since 1892. Check the condition descriptions again. Fine is over 30% original finish, while excellent is over 80%, so it sounds like you are well within the definition of fine. Of course, values would be influenced by the sight being factory or otherwise, and other things besides just how much finish remains. Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 885 - Colt M1911A1 Shipping Information
11/5/97

You guys are great! What a resource! I have a Colt 1911A1 manufactured, I believe in 1943. It is near mint and in the original box. The serial number is 1155XXX. Cab you help me identify a shipping date and destination? Your help is greatly appreciated.

Answer:
Sir- Charles Clawson's superb book "Colt .45 Service Pistols" has the best available information on the subject. It is out of print, and selling for $200.00 per copy, and well worth it. I'll share some info from mine for free, but hope you can kick in a couple bucks to support the NRA or else that new in the box treasure of yours will become outlawed contraband to be destroyed sooner than you think! During WW1, Colt worked diligently to ship pistols in exact serial number sequence. During WW2, they tried at first, but then stopped trying. Therefore WW1 answers can be very precise, and WW2 answers start off pretty close, but get less certain as the war progressed. Serial number 1155XXX most likely was in one of the five shipments made between December 15, 1943 and January 5, 1944, with a total of 9,800 pistols involved. All were shipped to Transportation Officer, Springfield Armory, as were the vast majority of Colts WW2 production. Although your pistol is not specifically listed, Frank Mallory's Springfield Research Service work in the National archives shows that other pistols in the 1155xxx range were associated with the Army Air Force at Dover Field, two different Navy LSTs, and the Army(?) 3rd Service Command. It is unlikely that you can track your pistol any further. It is useful (scary?) to know that the boxes for these pistols are still available. Guess all your suck-up remarks got you a pretty good answer, huh?... John Spangler

# 883 - Revolver, "Russian Model" .22 Caliber
11/5/97
Billie Vancouver, Wa. Clark

octagon barrel 7 shot no trigger guard engraved flower design top of barrel russian model, plastic black hand grips navy anchor at top. Side of barrel cast steel Feb 23 75 Mar 14 76. Any information as to the maker would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Billie

Answer:
Billie- Smith and Wesson made a very good quality .44 caliber "Model 3" revolver known as the "Russian model" made in a couple of variations between 1871 and 1878. They also made a "Single Action First Model" revolver in .38 S&W caliber known as the "Baby Russian." However, it appears they never bothered to trademark the "Russian model" name. Frank Sellers' "American Gunsmiths" identifies the .22 caliber Russian Model as a cheap, "suicide special" revolver made by Forehand and Wadsworth. Bet we could go out today and find a "Rolex" watch made by someone else, selling for a very low price. They sell a lot of them, so I guess some folks are so eager for a bargain price on a name they recognize that they overlook the obvious poor quality... John Spangler ( a name hopefully associated with GOOD quality and fair prices!)

# 882 - Fake Inspector Markings Comments
11/5/97
Scott Houston, TX.

John: I have noticed a fellow advertising in Gunlist (and doubtless other publications) offering to refinish and 'Re-Mark'- read, stamp it with a counterfeit cartouche- stocks' for 1903's and Garands. As a collector and generally honest person, I find this outrageous. Am I naive, missing something here, or does this happen frequently enough that most folks aren't bothered by this? I know this must be legal, but I am curious as to your thought on this. Thanks.

Answer:
Scott- If you want my REAL comments, we will have to add all sorts of X-rated warnings to this site. Folks who do these fake markings range from well-intentioned people who want to see things look just like when they were new, and are happy with refinished everything. People at this end of the spectrum will only mark stock where they can see traces of the original of the same type, and they also try to mark the stock in an inconspicuous place (under the buttplate?) to indicate it has been restamped. I disagree with these people about the propriety of doing this, but would inflict no more than corporal punishment on them in a dark alley. At the other end of the spectrum are the unsavory scum who slither out from under their trash heaps and purposely stamp things to deceive others and extract higher prices for otherwise shoddy goods, and never mention, or worse, deny that anything has been "touched up". Undoubtedly the offspring of two lawyers mating, such scum will probably be able to prove that it is not illegal to stamp anything they want, perhaps even qualifies as "free speech." I wonder if the National Endowment for the Arts would subsidize these people? Just because something is fake does not mean that you have much recourse against the seller, even though you and I may think capital punishment is appropriate. I once testified as an "expert witness" in a case involving a M1C sniper rifle, built up on a rewelded H&R receiver, which would only fool the gullible or greedy, even though it really was a pretty looking gun. End result was that the buyer and seller finally agreed the gun was not an authentic M1C sniper rifle produced at Springfield Armory in 1945. However, since no one could prove that the seller "intended to defraud" the buyer, the buyer was stuck with a fake rifle, plus a couple payments on his lawyers new car. My advice: Heed the comment of Harold Peterson, former head of the National Park Service's museum operation who said "I don't worry about the fakes I recognize, but I worry a lot about the ones I don't recognize." Invest in the books to learn about stuff BEFORE you buy it. If something doesn't seem right, it probably isn't and pass on the item. Lastly, "If you don't know your diamonds, know your jeweler." Some dealers have very good, others have very bad reputations, usually for a reason. There are dealers who advertise widely selling US martial arms parts (from SC), or US martial pistols (from CA) whom I consider outright fakers and crooks, and a few others around who are sometimes less than candid about what they are selling. There are also a lot of honest, well-informed and helpful dealers. Ask around, and look for yourself, it ain't too hard to figure out if you are willing to do a little homework... John Spangler

# 884 - German Marked MAB Mod. D
11/1/97
John, Newbury, Berks, UK

Stamped on one side 77XXX WaA251, on the other Pistolet Automatique Cal 7.65MAB Brevete Modele D. Grip black plastic ? with MAB. This was a war souvenir brought back by my late uncle. Can you tell me about it, is it French ? Who would have been issued with it ? What does MAB stand for ?Anything you may know about it please.

Answer:
John, Manufacture d'Armes de Bayonne (MAB) began business in 1921. The MAB Model D was introduced in 1933, like the Browning Model 1910, the MAB Model D carries the recoil spring around its barrel. The grip is unusually deep from front to rear, which gives the pistol an ungainly appearance. The Model D has a four inch barrel and was originally offered in 7.65mm (.32 caliber) and later in 9mm short (.380 caliber). The town of Bayonne was occupied by German troops on the 26th of June, 1940, as was the town of Hendaye, both having been specifically "requested" by the Germans at the armistice conference. The MAB factory was thereafter operated by French personnel who were supervised by Germans. From the summer of 1940 to the close of 1942, between 51,160 and 54,000 MAB model D pistols were procured by the Heerseswaffenamt from this location. According to the factory, the serial numbers were initiated at approximately # 47000 and terminated at # 97000. An alloy frame was utilized on the late weapons. The German designation for the pistol was Pistole MAB Kaliber 7.65 mm. Manufacture d'Armes de Bayonne. The WaA251stamping that you have described, is the German WW-II Heerswaffenamt inspectors mark for the Spanish Astra models 300 and 600, the Star model B, the French model 1935 A, the Unique models 17 and Kriegsmodell and the MAB model D... Marc

# 879 - American Guardian Pinfire
11/1/97
Robby

I have an antique pistol that belonged to my late father-in-law. I have not been able to find out anything about it. It is a six-shot pin fire, that is, there's a pin which protrudes from the rim of the cartridge. The cylinder is engraved with "The Guardian American Model of 1878." The barrel is octangular and stamped with the number 14. It has no trigger guard, and the trigger is hinged by a screw in the middle. Both the upper and lower portions of the trigger are stamped with the number14. The gun is about 7 inches long, overall and is in good condition. I also have 6 of the original cartridges. I would appreciate anything you could tell me about this gun, especially its value.

Answer:
Robby- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. I cannot find "Guardian American" in any of my maker lists. However, I believe it was probably made overseas, most likely in Belgium. Pinfires were primarily European of design and manufacture, although a fair number were sold in the U.S. I would guess yours was made circa 1878 to 1890 when the pinfire era pretty well fizzled out as people recognized the superior merits of conventional rimfire or centerfire cartridges. Collector interest is very slight, although I have met two self-confessed pinfire collectors in the last six months. They might be very interested in this gun, but unless you are lucky enough to find either of the pinfire collectors, value probably is in the $65-150 range. The cartridges are collectors items at maybe $1.00 each. Of course, oddball calibers, or larger calibers would do a little better than the typical smaller sizes (9mm/.38 caliber or less). Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 878 - M1911A1 Ithaca Serial Number D67XX
11/1/97
Larry, Arab, AL

1) Inspectors mark: FJA2) Ordnance "crossed cannon" on right side3) Ithaca 'cross' proof mark on upper left trigger guard4) Ordnance "flaming bomb" in barrel channel5) Mainspring housing: 7 ribs6) M1911A1 U.S. ARMY on right side7) "2" on upper right trigger guard8) "P" proof marks on top of slide in front of sight and on left receiver9) No marking on either side of slide10) Hammer: Borderless and/or raised checkering with scant thumb spur Weapon appears to be a WWII Ithaca but what gives with Serial Number? The lettering is larger than the "M1911A1 U.S. ARMY" and the metal around the "D67XX" does not appear to be filed or sanded and refinished. It appears under a glass to be finished the same as the other metal on the! receiver. Any clue? Thanks for taking my question.

Answer:
Larry- Glad you didn't say all that nice stuff like the other guy, because then we would have felt bad when we can't tell you much about your pistol. You obviously know what to look for, and it certainly seems "right" except for the goofy serial number. I have never heard of a "D" prefix serial number on a military .45 M1911/1911A1. I have two theories, each worth exactly what this is costing you. First- somebody other than Ithaca put the number on there, possibly indicating the pistol (or frame) was "demilled" or for some other reason needed to have a new number. At one time there were a lot of rewelded .45 frames on the market, and one of the areas welded on was right where the serial numbers are marked. I don't like that explanation very well, so let's try the other: Second- D6798 may be the drawing number for the M1911 or 1911A1 frame. Sure wish I had something to verify or disprove this, but maybe one of our guests will be able to prove us right or wrong. This theory would be strengthened if the top of the frame has a "G" and "H" stamped in the vicinity of the disconnector hole. Ithaca started off with a lot of WW1 surplus frames from Colt that had already been marked to indicate production on a "G"overnment order and inspected by Frank "H"osmer. Perhaps this was marked to indicate completion in accordance with the D6798 drawing specifications, and later got incorporated into a pistol. However with the oddball number, I would think it may have been completed as a "lunch box special" by one of the workers, or made up from leftover parts and given to someone who worked there. Scott Meadows book on US military Semi-Autos might help, but I haven't gotten a copy of that yet... John Spangler

# 876 - Springfield Model 1884 .45-70 Rifle Ser 388XXX
11/1/97
Ralph, Woodland, CA

Stock has "SWP" and "1887" stamped on left side. I acquired this rifle a while ago from an elderly gentleman. I was hoping you could consult your research associates to see if their records yield any historical information as to when this rifle was made and/or where this rifle was issued, etc. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated. Thanks!

Answer:
Ralph- Your rifle was made in 1887, as indicated by the inspector's "cartouche" date, and confirmed by records showing rifles in the 388,000 range were being assembled at Springfield in that year. Extensive research in the National Archives by Springfield Research Service has found no mention of this particular rifle's history. However, many rifles in the 388,000 and 389,000 ranges were being issued to various units during the Spanish American War. It is very likely this one was also issued, and the records subsequently lost or destroyed. A few were used for guard purposes at ports and defense plants in WWI, and some were donated to the Navy during WW2, mostly for conversion to line throwing guns. Nice old gun. Everyone should buy old Springfields from elderly gentlemen, especially if they are good lookin' dudes like the one in the picture at the top of our page. No, not the one with some furry critter on the top of his head, but the distinguished looking guy wearing a tie! :-)... John Spangler

# 875 - H&R Young America Double Action Revolver
11/1/97
Fred Coleman Riverside, Ca.

This is a 5-shot revolver. There were no proof marks or inspection marks that I could find on the weapon. The nickel plating is in passable shape, and the walnut grips have no chips and a decent finish. The thing was dbl. action at one time but the mechanism is badly worn preventing the cylinder from being rotated properly by puling the trigger and TDC lock-up is + or -about 10 degrees. The only time reference for the thing comes from my mother-in-law who says her grandfather used to carry it while at work in his general store circa 1900.Thank you in advance for anything you could tell me about it. Fred Coleman PS: I have talked my mudder-in-law out of any !serious thoughts of using the thing. Have we found something of value by accident? Are we talking closer to $20 or $100... or are we talking wall-hanger/heirloom? ;^)Thanks

Answer:
Fred, sorry to have to tell you this, but there is just about no collector interest in H&R firearms, your estimate of your H&R's value is probably a little high. The only information that I have on the H&R Young America Double Action is that it was made prior to 1942 and was one of H&R's first double action designs... Marc