# 771 - .30 Caluber Lugers (.30 Luger)
8/30/97

I was shown a Luger that was said to be a Commercial Model 30 caliber. I see several Commercial models listed in arms books but I do see a 30 caliber. Is there such a gun ? D. Russell

Answer:
D., many Lugers were manufactured in .30 Luger including some of the recent production Mauser models. Although .30 Luger is not as well known as 9mm, Lugers chambered in .30 Luger are quite common. The first model Luger ever manufactured in 1900 (the Model 1900) was chambered in .30 Luger. Lugers were not offered in the more recognized 9mm chambering until 1902... Marc

# 779 - Shotgun- Dumoulin & Cie Liege
8/30/97
BILL HOT SPRINGS,AR bchris@arkansas.net

On the receiver end of each barrel there is a crown with the following underneath ELG. Below that each barrel is stamped 24-65. Also has following stampings:1 Kg 1482

This appears to be a Appears to be a shotgun Does it have any value and where can I find out what that value is?

Answer:
Bill- This is one that you need to check out a little deeper than we can do here. Ernest Dumoulin of Herstal Belgium is maker of high grade, essentially custom-made guns with values in the thousand dollar and up range. Now Ernest does not start with the letter "F" but it may be part of the same family. We recommend you take it to a gun show in your area and show it to several exhibitors who have tables there and see what they say. Hope it turns out to be a real treasure. However, it could also turn out to be just another low grade gun made in large numbers for the American market, but it is worth checking carefully... John

# 780 - Webley MkIV Markings
8/30/97
Art, San Leandro, CA, USA

"made in England", "(crown) bnp", Webley & Scott, Ltd, Birmingham, "SPF 1006"

The frame is already marked with the serial #A93566, but also on the back of the frame above the grip, right behind the safety and below the hammer, is stamped "SPF 1006". It's clear and looks factory done. I was thinking maybe this is to identify the organization the gun went to, like a police dept, or service branch. Do you know what SPF would be? Thanks. If your average response time is a month or more, do you email to let me know there is an answer?

Answer:
Sorry Art we have to admit that we are stumped on this one, maybe one of our readers can help... Marc

# 784 - Shotgun JC Higgins 12 GA Automatic
8/30/97
Thomas

Automatic, original J.C. Higgins case

Approximate value and quality and manufacturing company?

Answer:
Thomas- The model 60 is not one that is in my cross reference list, so we cannot identify the true maker. Sorry. Demand for off-brand shotguns is very weak among collectors, so you are really looking for someone who needs s hunting gun. I would guess (emphasize the guess part) that about $150-250 would be fair to both parties. Check the prices at WALMART of auto shotguns so you will know what a new gun would cost, them drop the price to account for any wear or abuse... John Spangler

# 789 -
8/30/97
Stevn

This is one of the "Copeland Issue" Spencers. According to "Man At Arms" magazine there are only two others that have been located.This gun was issued to the 5th. Michigan Cavalry. They ended up using carbines later.My question is: Do you know of any surviving records indicating to which particular soldiers specific serial numbered arms where issued to?Any help in sending me in the right direction would be most appeciated.Thanks much!Steve

Answer:
Model 1860 Spencer Rifles Steven- I am afraid you are at a dead end. The only reliable source of serial number information on US military arms and their specific usage from the Civil War to recent times if in the work done by Frank Mallory of Springfield Research Service, Silver Spring, MD. Frank worked with Wiley Sword to produce the article in Man At Arms that you refer to. I am absolutely certain if they knew of any such information, or had the slightest clue that it might exist, that they would have pursued it. I suggest you write to WIley Sword, c/o the magazine to let him know you have one of the rifles, and ask him your question directly. Good luck!... John Spangler

# 764 - Shotgun- Williams Muzzle Loading
8/27/97
Doug, Newton, MA, US

There is subtle but detailed metal work along the butt of the stock and around the trigger. On the right hand side of the stock is the only words or numbers on the gun: Williams. If it helps, it is a front (barrel) loading gun with a wooden ram rod.

Sorry about the lack of information. I have inherited this gun just recently. I do know that it was being used as a bird hunting gun in the early 1900's.Have you heard of this gun? Any information on Williams would be appreciated or where I can continue searching. Thanks, Doug PS Since I am new at this I appreciate your page and service! Keep up the good work!

Answer:
Doug- There are only 59 makers named "Williams" listed in Frank Sellers' "American Gunsmiths" but if we throw out the real old and real recent ones, we can narrow it down to about 10 or 20. You didn't mention if there were any foreign proof marks, which might add a few dozen more possible makers. Send us some good close up photos and pencil rubbings of any and all markings and we can probably narrow the date down somewhat for you, and perhaps the country or region where it was made. Send to Box 711282, Salt Lake City, UT 84171. Old guns can be used long after they were made, and a few people still use some of the better muzzle loaders for hunting. Sorry we can't do any better without additional information... John Spangler

# 763 - Sharps Pistol Parts
8/27/97
Dave, Tucson, AZ, USA

Where can I acquire parts, such as screws, grips, springs, extractors, etc. I've tried the Dixie catalog, to no avail. Thanks.

Answer:
Dave- Dixie Gun Works has lots of parts for old guns. In my experience they are often of very poor quality. They have some good stuff too, but it is hard to know if you will be getting one or the other. I use them only as a last resort, and even with low expectations am frequently disappointed. Years ago they were much better. Frank Higginson in Gardnerville, NV (702)265-7009 is an excellent parts source but does not have a catalog. Gun Parts Corp West Hurley, NY 12491 (914)679-2417 has parts for the repro four barrel Sharps, which will not interchange, but might be adaptable. Good luck... John Spangler

# 762 - American Eagle Luger
8/27/97
Marv

I was reading some of your answers on Lugers and became curious about the one I have owned for the past 30 years. It has an American eagle stamped on the receiver and a grip safety. When the action is open, you can seethe s/n (same as on the receiver) and another number 17223 along with a crown and a U, some symbol and a B, and a symbol and a G. all this is on the underside of the barrel close to the receiver. It also has a crown and a U on the left side of the receiver and a crown and a U on the left side of the toggle. there is also a DWM stamped on top of the toggle. It has wood checkered grips and no markings at all on the clip. I have never taken it apart so these are all the numbers I can find. It looks to have about 70% of it's original finish and is fully operational.

What have I got here? What year was it made? Who was it delivered to? How many were made? Do you have an idea of it's value? What is the model? Thanks for any info you may have for me.....Marv

Answer:
Marv, form your description it sounds like you ether have a Model 1900 or (probably) a Model 1906 American Eagle Luger. The Model 1900 American Eagle had a slim tapered 4 & 3/4 inch barrel, an American Eagle over the chamber, old style toggle lock, dished toggle knobs, narrow trigger, wide trigger guard, grip safety, no stock lug and was chambered in .30 Luger. Six to eight thousand 1900 American Eagle Lugers were manufactured.

In 1901, the United States Army purchased 1000 Model 1900 American Eagle Luger Pistols and issued them to the Calvary for testing. The Lugers were not adopted by the US Army and were placed on sale as surplus. These 1000 American Eagle Lugers are the most controversial of all Lugers, since the exact proof mark (if any), which was put on them by the United States Ordinance Department is not known. It is generally considered that the lowest serial numbered American Eagle Lugers (in the 2000 - 3000 range) were these test Lugers.

There were six to eight thousand 1906 American Eagle Lugers were manufactured in the serial range of 25100 to 69000 for commercial sales in the United States. The 1906 American Eagle Luger had a slim tapered 4 & 3/4 inch barrel, American Eagle over chamber, New Style toggle with round full knurled toggle knobs, grip safety, no stock lug and was also chambered in .30 Luger. The 1906 is the most often encountered American Eagle.

The easiest way to differentiate between the 1902 and the 1906 is that the model 1902 has the old style dished toggle knobs and the Model 1906 has the full round, knurled toggle knobs. Values for American Eagle Lugers range form $500 to $3,000 depending upon condition If you ever want to sell your Luger or if you want it appraised let us know... Marc

# 761 - Rifle- Stevens .32-40
8/27/97
Rick, Trenton TN USA

on top of barrel-J.STEVENS A.& T.CO. CHICOPEE FALLS MASS. USA. PAT.APR.1794 32-40underneath barrel-19 119 (nines could possibly be zeros) same number repeated on cocking lever strike plate

I received the rifle as a gift from my Dad and would like to have any information you could provide. Thanks.

Answer:
Rick- J. Stevens Arms and Tool Co. made hundreds of thousands of rifles beginning about 1894, and later merging with Savage, and also operating under the Springfield brand name (NOT the same as the government Springfield Armory). Most of their rifles were .22 caliber and are inexpensive collector items. The larger rifles were mostly built on the Number 44 action, although the complete rifle would be sold under a variety of model designations depending on barrel weight, octagon or round, standard or set triggers, type of butt plate, sights, etc. Some of these are very desirable high quality target rifles of the period, bringing big prices. The numbers are probably just assembly numbers to match up parts for final assembly after hand fitting. We would need some detailed photos and measurements of barrel length and diameter at breech and muzzle to tell much more. Send to Box 711282, Salt Lake City, UT 84171 and we will see what we can add... John Spangler

# 759 - Lily Pocket Revolver
8/22/97
James

It reads Lily's Cart Liposited. It is a rimfire revolver dated 1873 and has a case and ammo.

I'd appreciate anything you could tell me about it. Thank you very much for your consideration.

Answer:
Jim- You are asking about an arms collecting area where I have no knowledge and little in the way of reference books. Perhaps with a photo we could find something. Send it to us at Box 711282, Salt Lake City, UT 84171. However, lack of knowledge has never stood in the way of providing answers before, so why start now. Sounds like it might be one of the "Velo Dog" type revolvers popular in France, Belgium and Spain around 1890-1910. Intended for carrying in pocket while riding bicycle for protection against attack by vicious dogs. Real ugly guns, usually with folding trigger. Am I close? Send the picture... John Spangler

# 760 - Blake Rifle
8/22/97
Doug Veltz

Hi. I am from Batavia, NY. It has come to my attention that there was a Rifle Company here almost a century ago owned by a man named "John Henry Blake" that produced only a few hundred rifles, some civilian edition and some prototypes for the military as well. I am interested in locating one and wondered if you had ever heard of it. It was known as "The Blake Rifle"and was a .30 caliber model. I don't really know allot more about them except that they were produced in 1899 in Batavia, NY by John Henry Blake. Any information you could give me about this rifle, or how to go about finding one would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
Doug- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters. Flayderman has a brief entry on page 505 concerning the Blake rifle, noting quantity "unknown- limited" and placing a value in NRA antique very good at $775 and $1250 in excellent. He states- "Although not a great deal in print about this maker, he manufactured and issued catalogs of a complete line of military and sporting models in various grades all on this identical actions with rotary magazine and in a variety of calibers. The military model was submitted to US trials of 1893 and although reported on favorably, it lost out to the Krag. New York state tested it in 1896 and it received military recommendations for adoption. It is thought that only political machinations prevented its official adoption and purchase." Information on the US trials may be found in the Annual Report of the Chief of Ordnance, and of the state trials in the Annual Report of the Adjutant General for the appropriate years. (Note they usually run on fiscal years, not calendar years, so you might have to check several.) Batavia newspapers of the time may also have information, or the city directories. Note that just because he offered lots of variations in his catalog, that does not confirm that they were all actually produced. I vaguely recall seeing one or two Blakes offered for sale over the years, but no details. You might post a "Want" on our wanted page to see if you can locate one. If you need one for study purposes, Springfield Armory museum or the Smithsonian probably have one, and perhaps also the Henry Stewart collection at VMI, Lexington, VA. Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 758 - King Nitro- Shapleigh .22 Rifle
8/22/97
James

I recently traded for a Shapleighs King Nitro bolt action .22 rifle. I have stripped this unit to its frame and have found: No serial #s, or grind marks, nor have any place of manufacture or patent #s?????? Is this unusual?? Could you please give me any information as to the age or manufacture ? The mechanism reminds me of the old Remington .22s, could this be a Peters production rifle during their acquisition by Remington???

Answer:
James- The "King Nitro" trade name was used on shotguns made by Davenport Fire Arms Co. for the Shapleigh Hardware Co. of St. Louis. Shapleigh has been in business since 1868 and are wholesalers only, not makers, so they could have bought rifles from just about anyone. Jim Perkins' wonderful book "American Boys Rifles 1890-1945" only includes a variation of the Stevens Visible Loader as being sold through Shapleigh. Most inexpensive guns were not serial numbered, as it was not until the Gun Control Act of 1968 that serial numbers were required to be put on all guns manufactured. Few bolt action .22s depend on any patented features, so lack of patent information is not unusual. If you hurry up to Cody, WY to see the finest Remington exhibit ever done (open only until September 28) you might be able to match your rifle up with a Remington model. I don't know anything about Peters ever being in the rifle business, so I cannot help there. Stevens and Marlin and perhaps other would have also been in the business of making guns under "trade names." Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 757 - Rifle, German Sporting
8/22/97
Ralph White-Haven PA. USA

On barrel Christoph Funk In Suhl 67/49 R.S an S with a diamond around it a U with a crown on top barrel is octagon. It is a bolt action with a set trigger. Receiver has scrolls on it like a fancy hunting rifle. looks like a large cal. but a short shell Center fire. Stock is in good shape, checkered grip, and has a pin going through the stock and barrel for removal, like on a muzzle loader.

Does it have any value? Any information I would appreciate Thank you,

Answer:
Ralph- Definitely German, and definitely pre-WW2. Sounds like one of the better grade sporting rifles, often built on Mauser actions, but sometimes others. "Large caliber" could indicate something made on one of the early 11mm (about 43 caliber) Model 1871 or 1871/84 actions, or be a later piece made for someone who wanted a rifle in a large caliber. The names are not very useful as virtually hundreds of German gunsmiths were making these and there are no records to provide information on dates, numbers, etc. All were basically custom guns. There is some interest in these classic old sporters, with value dependent on condition, caliber, and overall style. Many were brought home by GIs after WW2 when we seized all the privately owned arms in Germany. (I wonder who Janet Reno and Sarah Brady would give our guns to?) If you would like to sell this one, we would be glad to discuss doing it on a consignment basis... John Spangler

# 756 - Colt New Service "Ejercito Permanente"
8/22/97
Mark

Patent numbers Aug. 5, 1884 June 5, 1900 July 4, 1905Colt d. a. .45Ejercitjpermanente

When was this pistol made? And if possible the history. I have been told this pistol was used in a war in Panama, I would like to know if this is true. Thanks for your help. My e-mail address is spanky1@eatel.net

Answer:
Mark- The Colt "New Service" model was their big double action revolver offered in .45 and .44 calibers (among others), and was a popular sidearm for police and military use. Yours was made in 1912, and part of an order sent to Cuba. The U.S. was running the country at the time, and equipping their army and police. Nearly all of the 10,000 Winchester Model 1895 muskets purchased by the U.S. Army but delivered too late for use in the Spanish-American War also went to Cuba. U.S. Army, Navy and Marine Corps adopted variations of the "New Service" as the Model 1909 and got 151,700 more during WWI as the Model 1917. Other than confirming shipment to Cuba, I doubt if a Colt Factory letter would help you much. Fidel will probably shoot you as a Yanqui spy if you try to get information from Cuban military sources. Cuba Libre! (I say that every time I go into a bar and they give me a rum and coke! Neat, huh?)... John Spangler

# 755 - Dreyse 1907 .25 Pistol
8/19/97
Loren MN,USA

Looks like what might be an R and an F and an M on the grips.

Looking for a clip for this pistol. It is at least 53 years old as it was brought over from Germany in 1945. I believe it was used then. My deceased father brought it over so I don't know much else about it. He used to keep the pistol in the glove compartment of the car and the clip for it in his jacket pocket. Someone stole his jacket with the clip in it about 20 years ago. Would like any information about this pistol and any advice about obtaining a clip for it.

Answer:
Loren, it sounds like you have a Dreyse Model 1907. Waffenfabrik von Dreyse was founded about 1842 to make the famous Needle Gun for the Prussian army, the Dreyse concern had also made needle pistols and cap lock revolvers. The 6.35mm Model 1907 was broadly based on the 1906 Browning pattern without the grip safety. The Model 1907 had a unique patented method of disassembly, lifting the rear sight clear of the slide allows the whole rib to be removed backward, allowing the pistol to be dismantled. Model 1907's are marked DREYSE on the left side of the slide and have 'RMF' monograms on the grips. You may have a hard time locating a magazine, try posting a want on our wanted page or follow the gun parts links on our links page... Marc

# 751 - Fox Sterlingworth Shotgun
8/19/97
Mike

Right barrel marked "fluid compressed steel". The metal on the stock where the barrels are attached is stamped "2nd". This shotgun is in amazing condition. The bluing on the barrels is very good, except for a rubbed place on the bottom where someone had a different forearm on it for a time, though the original is on it now. The wood is minimally marred, with good checkering and no cracks or repairs . I do not know this: what is the original finish on the boxlock receiver. It is now silvery and slightly blotched. Was it blue and now flaked off, or silver and now tarnished, or case colored, or something else? Also, what is fluid compressed steel, and why is the stock stamped 2nd? What is its approximate worth? I would like to sell it and buy a good sporting clays o/u.

Answer:
Mike- Anley H. Fox set up a gun company and manufacturing plant in Philadelphia in 1896 and made the "Sterlingworth" model until about 1946. In 1930 the company was bought out by Savage, but they kept the model and the name, so it is hard to pin down dates. The "Standard Catalog of Firearms" lists values at $275 in poor and $800 in good (they use a condition grading system I cannot explain to you.) The receiver was probably color case hardened. This usually wears to a splotchy silvery appearance. "Fluid compressed steel" was a name given to barrels made from solid stock rather than being laminated in the older, weaker "damascus" manner. Various makers used different names for their versions. On German guns it is often "Krupp fluss stahl". I cannot explain the different forend, nor the meaning of the "2nd" marking. In 1931 Savage was selling this model for $36.50, a very high price in that depression year. A fine old gun, not one of the usual wallhangers. Have you tried it at Sporting Clays? May not be very stylish, but a pretty classy way to shoot!... John Spangler

# 749 - Remington Model 8
8/19/97
David, Childress, Texas, US..

On the barrell it is marked:THE REMINGTON ARMS UNION METALLIC CARTRIDGE CO. INC. REMINGTON ILION WORKSILION, NY. USABROWNINGS PATENTS. OCT 9 1900. OCT 16 1900 JUNE 3 1902. MAY 14 1907 ANDFEB 14 1911

I would like any information available on this rifle. It was my granddad's and is equipped with a weaver 4x scope marked El Paso Texas I would like to know about when the gun was made and if they were very many of them manufactured. Can I still buy ammo for it. I have about 3 boxes now that are old as Moses. They were priced at 3.31 per box. That should tell you something. I would also like to know approx. value of this rifle if you have a good guess.

Answer:
David there were Aprox. 60,000 Remington Model 8 Autoloading Rifles manufactured from 1906 to 1936. Model 8's were offered in .25, .30, .32 and .35 Rem calibers, had a non detachable 5 shot box magazine, open sights and a plain stock. Model 8 values range from about $100 to $275 depending upon condition. Higher grade Model 8's (C-F) will bring a premium. A good place to look for ammunition would be "The Old Western Scrounger", there is a link to him on our links page... Marc

# 746 - British "Brown Bess" Musketoon
8/19/97

I have a .75 caliber British Brown Bess rifle from the 1700's. It has GR marked on it and it says Tower. It is a musket converted to a Musketoon with a 33 inch barrel. Is it worth anything and would This have been a war gun?

Answer:
Sir- The Brown Bess with barrel lengths of 39-46 inches and minute variations in lock and trigger guard or stock furniture was standard arm of the British forces from the French and Indian War around 1754 (or Seven Years War to those outside of North America) until the end of the Napoleanic Wars in 1815. Long versions were made for the Infantry and shorter ones for cavalry and other units. Some short versions were made that way, while others were cut down from longer muskets. However, after the Brown Besses became obsolete, many more were cut down ("Sporterized" in today's terms) before or after being sold to Indians, settlers, merchant ships, pirates, primitive nations' armies or insurrectionists, or whomever could be convinced to buy some old guns. Since 1960, many reproduction Brown Bess muskets have been made, and after several years use and abuse in the hands of reenactors, now look rather old and genuine. If your "Bess" is an original short version still in original flintlock, it is probably worth many hundred to several thousand depending on exactly which model it is and most importantly, the condition. If converted to percussion, value drops off about 40-60%. If a reproduction, it may be a worth couple of hundred at the most. If you want to sell, let us know and we will help you get a fair price from a collector who will give it a good home. We never really "own" these old guns, just pay a lot to "rent" them for our enjoyment for a few years... John Spangler

# 777 - Ranger .22 Semi-auto Rifle Model 101.11A
8/19/97
Ed

I just bought this .22 rifle to get familiar with shooting, it's about ten or fifteen years old maybe. I was wondering who makes it. Is Ranger the model or the manufacturer? does anyone have any info on this rifle?

Answer:
Ed- I cannot positively identify your rifle. However, "Ranger" is one of the "house brands" used by Sears, Roebuck & Co. on firearms made for them. (They also use Sears, J.C. Higgins, and formerly used Ted Williams as house brands.) It is possible your rifle is a variation of the Savage Model 94, as some model 101.1 series guns under the JC Higgins and Sears names are based on that. No ranger model is listed in my source, the Gun Parts Corporation catalog. Hope this helps... John

# 775 - Smith & Wesson Reference Book
8/18/97
Matt

Flat Latch

I am looking for a reference book similar to the R. L.Wilson Colt reference book, but for S&W firearms. This book would have all of the models and serial numbers for S&W firearms. If you could point me in the direction of what such a book might be and where I could buy it, I would greatly appreciate it. Regards, Matt Whitmanmattw@aimnet.com

Answer:
Matt- You are in luck! Jim Supica, a reputable dealer who runs the "Old Town Station" in Lenexa, Kansas has written the most useful book for S&W collectors. ""Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson" For about $30 you can get everything you need to know. Its such a good book that eve I, a rifle lover bought a copy. Unfortunately, Marc liked it so much he has kept my copy instead of buying one for himself. Must be a great book, huh? IDSA books of Piqua, Ohio, and Rutgers Book Center of Highland Park, NJ both stock it. Your local bookstore will be glad to special order a copy. Buy it!.. John Spangler

# 745 - Weaver M73B1 (model 330C) Repairs
8/16/97
Ken, Lebanon, TN

I picked up a M73B1 sniper scope out of a junk box at a gun show in Colorado Springs for $1.00! Yes one dollar. Unfortunately it has been disassembled, and the cross hairs are broken, otherwise it is in mint condition, beautiful optics, and perfect finish. Question: Who can put this baby back together for me, to include crosshairs?

Answer:
Ken- Hey, I'd be glad to help you double your money on that old clunker, why maybe even go as high as $10.00. Some comments: These were blued, not parkerized, originally, and I am pretty sure that they were refinished in military shops. Crosshair removal is easy. I've done that- just take it apart and stick your little finger in the tube. Replacement is harder, and requires some crosshair wire, or web from a black widow spider. (Tooele Army Depot used to keep some spiders just for repair of optical equipment!) Check our answers for the last month or two. We listed address for repair of Weaver and Unertl scopes there. They can do it for sure. Or, you can try yourself after you recover from the spider bites... John Spangler

# 744 - Shotgun- Simmons Hardware Cannon Breech
8/16/97
Ray

Is it possible to determine the year this gun was made from the model? Does this gun have any significant value? Thank you for your help and assistance.

Answer:
Ray- Sorry, nothing very special about this one, just another inexpensive old shotgun, probably 1890-1920 vintage. Someone may be able to do a better job dating these, but I don't know of any published sources. Value is probably in the $50-150 wall hanger range... John Spangler

# 743 - Hopkins & Allen XL No. 3 Revolver
8/16/97
Coy, Mesquite, TX, U.S.

I would like to get some information about this firearm, particularly approximate date and place manufactured, caliber, etc. This belonged to my grandfather and I inherited it from my father.

Answer:
Coy- Hopkins and Allen made inexpensive handguns under a variety of names (both their own, and "trade names" for various retailers) in Norwich, Conn. beginning about 1867. The XL series (numbers 1 through 8) were most common in the 1870s and 1880s. The model number was related to the caliber, but I could not find precise identification of the "No. 3" but suspect it was probably .32 or .38 rimfire. Good vest pocket guns or to keep by the bed for shooting burglars, wild animals or wild people. Certainly not expensive guns, but comparable the inexpensive guns many people buy for protection now. Little collector interest, but a wonderful family heirloom. I hope you can pass it on to your grandchildren. Sarah Brady hopes she can get it away from you before your grandchildren get it. Support NRA!... John Spangler

# 740 - Schofield Belgian Copy
8/16/97
tom

It is a Belgium made copy I am told .It is very old and in great shape. It is a double action 44 with pearl handles. One side of the handle is inscribed AP OR PA. I would like to know if there is anyway of finding out who these initials belong to. Thanks Tom

Answer:
Tom- Surely a neat old "cowboy gun" with some interesting stories to tell. Unfortunately my hearing ain't as good as it used to be. Sorta sounds like it is whispering "Apache Pete", or maybe "Antinio's Pueblo" (of Pretty Senoritas) or "Albany Playhouse" theatrical costumes, or maybe something else. There is no way to track it forward from the presumably Belgian maker. If you can't track it back through previous owners, your guesses are at least as good as mine. Reminds me of the stuffed deer head I once saw for sale- it came "Complete with five different stories about how you shot it!"... John Spangler

# 748 - Sauer 38-H Replacement Grips
8/12/97
Marc

Nitro Proof, Eagle-C Police stamp Third Riche.

This weapon is aprox. 1938-1946 of date made, I am trying to get grips for this weapon if possible, Do you know if grips are still being made for older weapons, and if so where to acquire them. Thank you...Marc.

Answer:
Marc, I do not know of anyone who is manufacturing replacement grips for the Sauer 38-H. A good place to start your search for used grips would be at gunshows, I have seen dealers at gunshows who specialize in nothing but used grips. The problem with many gunshow grip dealers, is that their prices are quite high. A few years ago, I was looking for a pair of Browining Medallist grips because the ones on my pistol were cracked. I finally found the grips that I needed at a gunshow with a dealer who had at least six - eight foot tables filled with nothing but grips. I was shocked to find that the price for the grips was "$200.00 FIRM no bartering and no trades". I decided to sell my Medallist and buy one that had grips that were in better condition. You might try posting a want on our wanted page, or checking the gun parts links on our links page. If all else fails do what I did, sell your 38-H

# 747 - Remington 11A Manufacture Date
8/12/97
jim garrettsville,oh

What years was it made?

Answer:
Jim, that is an easy question, there were approx 300,000 Remington 11A's manufactured from 1911 to 1948. If your 11A was manufactured between 1921 and 1972 there is a way to determine the month and year of manufacture. I had posted the following information in a previous answer but will do so again because it may be helpful to our readers. Remingtons made between 1921 and 1972 have a code located on the left side of the barrel near the frame that identifies the year and month of manufacture. The following letters correspond to the months of the year, for example B=January, L= February and so on [ B - L - A - C - K - P - O - W - D - E - R - X ]. The following letters correspond to the year of manufacture starting in 1921 and ending in 1972. [ M - N - P - R - S - T - U - W - X - Y - Z - A - B - C - D - E - F - G - H - J - K - L - MM - NN - PP - RR - SS - TT - UU - WW - XX - YY - ZZ - A - B - C - D - E - F - G - H - J - K -L - M - N - P - R - S - T - U - W ]. As you can see there are some problems with this dating system. If any of our readers have better dating information for Remingtons it would be greatly appreciated if you could pass it on to us... Marc

# 742 - S&W Model .32 Hand Ejector of 1903 Fifth Change
8/12/97
Evan Lawton

I have recently acquired a S&W 32 long revolver. It has pattern info. on the top of the barrel and uses 4 screws on the side cover plus 1 screw in front of the trigger guard. The number on the butt/frame 136XXX. It is nickel plated with minimal wear on the finish and mechanics. Can you identify this piece and give a value range ?

Answer:
Evan, you didn't give me a lot of information to go on, barrel length among other things would have been helpful in determining the value. From the information that I have, I will guess that you have a Model .32 Hand Ejector of 1903 Fifth Change. The S&W Model .32 Hand Ejector of 1903 Fifth Change was made form 1910 to 1917, serial numbers ranged from 102,501 to 263,000. There is not a lot of collector interest in this model and values for one in excellent condition would fall in the $150 - $250 range although values listed in the blue book are higher... Marc

# 737 - Premier (Stevens?) .22 Pump Rifle
8/12/97
Paul

The rifle breaks down into two pieces at the receiver. It has a large screw that holds it together. It is tube fed, has the safety on the top rear portion of the receiver.

My question is, where can I get a bolt for this gun. It was given to me by an older gentleman who took the bolt out of the gun so his children could not fire it. He has since lost it. I can't find one anywere. Please help.

Answer:
Paul, I can find no mention of a Premier brand .22 rifle in any of my reference books, but Stevens marketed their 29-A under the Premier name. The Stevens Model 29 was manufactured from 1894-1935 in .22, .25RF and .32 RF calibers. The Mod. 29 was offered with a round or octagon barrel in several different lengths (24" being the most common), and had a straight grip stock and a small tapered forearm. For a replacement bolt you should try contacting Gun Parts Corp., there is a link to them on our links page... Marc

# 736 - Springfield M1873 Rifle 32xxx
8/9/97
Scott

Script 'P' within an oval (.75" x .5", app) on top of comb, .5 inch from buttplate tang screw.

I know this Trapdoor was made approximately 1874. It has a 3-notch tumbler, and an 1879 sight, but all other components (trigger, hammer, breech block, etc appear to be correct for this period of trapdoor. However, there are NO Inspectors cartouches. It seems fairly clear the piece was restocked; the questions are Who and When? Could this be a member of 'The Great Turn In', as described on page 187 in Waite and Ernst? Or maybe a Bannerman offering? The only cartouche, the script 'P' (in-an-oval) on the comb is most curious, and none of the experts I have asked have had a clue....so, here's your chance to show your brilliance..

Answer:
Scott- We are short on brilliance, but will do our dim-witted best for you. As your reference to Waite and Ernst's "Trapdoor Springfield" book suggests, all rifles and carbines under serial number 50,000 were directed to be turned in 1879 (note the typo in their date changed it to 1897). Frasca and Hill's "The .45-70 Springfield" theorizes that many of the components of those rifles and carbines were subsequently reassembled into the trapdoors seen with "stars" after the serial number. These were cited in records as "cleaned and repaired" instead of new production, and are believed to have used new receivers, breechblocks, and stocks necessitated by the slight increase in width of the receiver around serial number 100,000. Stock furniture and locks could be reused, and these "star" guns frequently have the early 1873 dated lock plates and/or the early coarse checkered hammers. After the "starred" guns were assembled, Springfield had a lot of obsolete narrow receivers, breechblocks, and probably stocks which were sold as surplus. Many of these have been assembled into complete rifles in the last 100+ years by anybody with a pile of other parts, including Bannerman, W. Stokes Kirk, and others up until recent years, including me. Your circle P sounds larger than usual, and if so I doubt if it was applied under military authority. If regular size, Erskine Allin may have been badly hung over or something, but I have no good explanation of why it would be on the comb instead of the bottom of the wrist. Absence of a cartouche is less disturbing, as many trapdoors were "cleaned and repaired" after the Spanish American War, and the stocks sanded and shellacked. If your rifle has all of the following, I would consider it one that was upgraded with new sight and tumbler, otherwise just an assembly of parts: (a) barrel with square shoulder where it butts inside the receiver, (b) one piece front sight, not blade and pin type, and (c)stock with narrow inletting for receiver leaving no gap on the sides. We look much brighter when people ask easier questions... John Spangler

# 718 - DWM P-08 Questions
8/9/97
Peter

Any information that you can provide me would be greatly appreciated. I'm very intrigued with the history of my Luger. If you can give me any additional information on it I would be very appreciative. I think this luger was manufactures in 1916. The serial number falls in the range listed in "Imperial Lugers" by Jan C. Still page 15.Below the serial number is stamped GERMANY. I understand that A.F. Stoeger & Company of New York imported a large number of refurbished luger to the United States after WW I. There is no date on top of the receiver as shown with most Lugers. Did commercial Lugers not have this date, or was it ground off? All numbers seem to match with the exception of the barrel witch appears to have been replaced. The two numbers on the barrel are 479 and 8.82. I understand that one deals with the hardness of the barrel and the 8.82 is the bore size. I enjoy shooting and I have a problem with this Luger. The pistol, when fired, will not recycle. The pistol will fire, the spent cartridge will be extracted, and the pistol will be cocked, but a new round will not be loaded. I have tried a number of different manufactories of ammunition but the best results I have had ,is with my old clip and then the pistol recycles only about 25% of the time. I have had the pistol looked at by a local gun dealer and he could not find anything wrong with it. He indicated that the ammunition used during the war was much hotter. Is this the r us mmercial a ition l re se today's hter

Answer:
Peter, I am afraid that there are only a few things that I can tell you about your Luger that you don't already know. You are correct about the barrel markings and I concur that your barrel is probably a replacement because it does not have a matching serial number. I have several early Lugers and have fired them all, I have never had problems caused by modern loads being too light. Luger carbines were designed to fire hotter loads and do not function properly when firing normal 9 MM ammo, but your Luger should work. It is hard to diagnose why your Luger is jamming without seeing it, but it sounds like your hold open device is not functioning properly. When your Luger locks open can you feel the hold open disengage when you remove the magazine and pull back on the toggle? A different magazine might make your problem go away, try several different magazines and see what happens. You can tell if a Luger chamber date has been removed or changed by looking at the top of the chamber. Chambers that have been modified no longer have a true radius at the top, chambers that are in original condition have a smooth radius. Compare your Luger with one that is original, if your chamber has been changed, the difference will be obvious... Marc

# 734 - Clement Arms Copy of Colt Navy
8/9/97
Hokan, VEster%E5s, Sweden

Looks like a Colt Navy, except the drum is a little longer. Crowned "R", Crowned "A" & Crowned "Ypsilon" on both drum and barrel. Naval scene with sail ships and a bridge on the drum.Where is it made, and when. What can you tell me in general about this revolver ?

Answer:
Hokan- Nathan Swayze's "'51 Colt Navies" book has the best answer I can find. These are sometimes called "Brooklyn Bridge" guns because of the bridge scene engraved on the cylinder. Instead of the marking "engaged 16 May 1843" found on the Colt, the cylinder is marked "Registered June 1899". Among the many proof markings are Belgian proofs. Swazye states: "The stories of the origin of the 'Brooklyn Bridge Colts' seem to vary. One authority tells us these copies were made in Germany (Clement was a German gunmaker) for the African trade as late as 1930. Another authority tells us they were made from 1890 until the start of World War II. 200 of the 'Brooklyn Bridge Colts' (blued with nickel plated trigger guards and back straps) turned up at the Toulon, France, Government Arsenal in 1950, where they gradually worked themselves into the antique trade. In any event the author does not feel that these copies should be classed as true antiques." Note that Swayze does not identify the "authorities" who provided the information. Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 733 - Mauser 98 rifle
8/9/97
Art, Fullerton, Ca,

I want to know how to install the sling that came with my rifle, and how to disassemble the bolt. What I really need is a Manual for the rifle. Where can I find one? The rifle has been refinished by an armory (???) and tagged in box asR1900 Carbine K98 8mm. Sold to me by "Big-5" Sporting Goods. The bore inside diameter measures .321" and cycles 8x57 Remington ammunition with ease. The barrel looks new and is microgroved instead of military deepgroved. The chamber and bolt are tight with no play. I have not fired the rifle yet. The receiver is marked with a "44", made in 1944, I assume.

Answer:
Art- The German sling had a buckle or button type arrangement that held the end of the sling in the slot through the stock. Any other kind of sling is a pain to install. Since your rifle does not have a lot of collector value, just use a small wood screw to hold the end of the sling after it passes through the slot. Bolt disassembly is explained in Smith's "Small Arms of the World" available in many libraries, along with lots of other info on the 98 Mausers. Look under Germany. If you have any questions, ask the place that sold the rifle. If they can't answer, tell them your lawyer will be glad to ask them and you'll have an answer real quick.(just kidding!)... John Spangler

# 728 - Mauser 98 Rifle
8/5/97
Matt, Sacramento, CA, USA

On the top of the receiver there is a crest approximately 2 cm x 1 cm. It is a small circle with squarish wings coming off it. There appears to be feathers on the bottom of the circle. On top of the circle there is a crown. On the trigger assembly there is a "98" stamped on the left side and a "495" on the right side. On the lug that the foreword screw goes into there in a "7" over "11" stamped. The stock is an after market stock too. What kind of animal do I have. It is a friend's Mauser and unfortunately I know nothing about them. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you MattMMurphy86x@aol.com

Answer:
Matt- I can't find any crest that matches your description, so I cannot help much. Mausers were made for many different countries, and most wanted their own crest marked on them. However, subsequently rifles were captured or sold and governments overthrown, and the new management wanted "their" crest, and went ahead and marked them accordingly. I suspect yours is one of the latter instead of an original factory applied crest. The makers markings (often on the left side of the receiver) were usually removed then refinished and remarked. The Yugoslavians did a lot of these (That's Bosnia and Serbia, where our troops are stuck by order of the ill-informed Commander-in-Chief). Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 725 - Rolling Block- .43 Spanish?
8/5/97
James, North pole, Alaska, USA

Remington's ILION, NY. USAPAT'S May 3, 1864, May 7 June 11 Nov 12 Dec 24 1870, Dec 31 1872, Sept 3 1873, Jan 13.It has a E.N. on the Barrel and the right side of the stock Has a crown on all three of the barrel rings, what holds the wood to the barrel could not find a serial number. My father says it is a Spanish Rolling Block .43 Caliber.

I am looking for info to the history of this type of rifle, where it was used most, Where I can find some Brass for the rifle. Is it a keeper. what's the best way to take care of it. Are here any books on this type of rifle. Really any info that I can get would be greatly appreciated Thank You James F. Altom

Answer:
Jim- Do you really live at the North Pole? Tell your neighbor I want a Pedersen Device, a better M1C sniper, and an 1892 Krag for Christmas. Thanks. Your rifle sure sounds like one of the thousands made by Remington in .43 Spanish. They also made them in .43 Egyptian, 11mm Mauser, a Danish caliber similar to .45-70, and all sorts of other calibers...whatever the customer wanted. "E.N." is probably for "Ejercito Nacional" or National Army for one of the South American countries. There is a real lack of information on these old rolling blocks. About the best source is Jerry Janzen's "Bayonets of the Remington Cartridge Period" which has a wonderful amount of detail on who bought the rifles, to explain how the bayonets match up. These were used all over the world from about 1866 until WW1 pretty well made single shot rifles obsolete. They were popular because they were rugged, and almost (but not totally) indestructible even in the hands of the most primitive forces. Guess you and I couldn't hurt them too badly either. If in nice condition (most are not) I would consider it a keeper. If you are sure of the caliber, you can try getting ammo from "The Old Western Scrounger" on our links page. (Tell him how you found him). If not sure, I would not even think about shooting it... John Spangler

# 722 - English "Tower" flintlock pistol?
8/5/97
Bill Wauna WA USA

On the action side the word Tower and in the middle of the plate a crown On top of the barrel a ELG stamp on the left side a small crown below it GR and a arrow tip , up the side is crossed sabers and on the bottom of the barrel is stamped HR with a double up & down loop design

Have no idea what I have, if anything. The gun has a brass butt plate, trigger guard and side bar. The loading ram is on a swivel and stores in the front of the stock and exact length to go into the barrel.. All parts are marked \ | / \ ,slash marks, and the only piece missing is the top portion that holds the flint in. Is this just a great wall hanger or is it worth something. Thanks

Answer:
Bill- You have a great wall hanger or it may be worth something. People have been making repros of Tower flintlock pistols for about 30 years, and some are quite nice, others are crude enough to fool only the most gullible. Usually they start life with a variety of marks indicating maker and country of origin, but these frequently disappear and the guns seem to age rapidly and are then offered as oldies. Marks may even be added, but most fakers are too lazy to do that. Some of the best repros have been made in Belgian, and the "ELG" is a fairly recent Belgian proof mark. However, the GR and broad arrow (if original) is an older English property marking circa 1750-1820. Most of the repros did not have a swivel ramrod, so that points toward it being an authentic item. You might be able to carefully remove the lock. (Put hammer at half cock position first to avoid damaging the wood.) If the inletting looks like machine made work, it is probably a fake. If old and grungy and hand inletted, it is probably a good piece. Tower pistol locks have been common on the market up until the last few years and many assembled into various guns for shooting purposes, or reenactments. Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 709 - Remington .310 Skeet cartridges
8/5/97
Bruce, Sheboygan Falls, Wi

I have a box of shells that I can not identify. The box is marked as follows: .310 Remington Skeet Kleanbore Priming Index #21072The shells are all brass, about the same size as a .32 mag pistol cartridge. They are rimfire with a rolled crimp and a clear plastic disk covering a shot charge that appears to be # 9 shot. The box is a slip top box which holds 250 cartridges. The box is white and green colored. I have not been able to find any info on this cartridge in any of the books that I own.

Answer:
Bruce- I never heard of them either. John L. Barber's "The Rimfire Cartridge 1857-1984" has some info. He shows seven variations of the .310 skeet cartridge. Five have 6-fold star crimps, and two have a roll crimp. Of the latter, one has the clear plastic wad like yours and the other has a yellow wad. These both have a "U" with a dot headstamp. My guess is that these are probably from the 1940-60 period when there seemed to be a lot of interest in small caliber shotguns. One ammo dealer has the clear wad variety offered at 50 cents per round. You might be able to find out some more about what sort of gun was associated with these by looking through old copies of "Gun Digest" or "Shooters Bible"... John Spangler

# 713 - Luger Holster Compartments
8/1/97
Ed

Lower case letters "byf" on top of carriage. Number 9994 on left side of barrel above side release lever, numbers 94 at various other locations. Number 41 at top of barrel where it meets the main housing. Eagle emblem and "655" on opposite side of from 9994. Leather holster stamped Carl Hepting & Co., STGT FEUERBACH 1939.

As you can tell, I know nothing about guns. Found your page doing a search on Lugers. Pardon me for stupid questions. I enjoyed the other Luger questions, though. First of all, what is the little compartment in the top of the holster for? (Not the one for the magazine, but a much smaller one, sort of triangle-shaped.)Secondly, is the gun worth much (should I "keep" it, or take it out plinking). Gun is mint except that an engraved name C.F.SMITH on the side of the body, which I'm sure lowers the value. The holster is very good to excellent, some scuff marks. I even have a magazine with "old bullets" (some have non-discernible markings but a clear 1942 stamped on the rim. It has been recommended to me that I not fire any old ammo. How do I dispose of it? Thanks!

Answer:
Ed, I don't think that your questions are stupid, I remember asking one of the same questions years ago when I acquired my first Luger holster. The small compartment in the top of your holster is meant to hold a magazine tool. Magazine tools are shaped somewhat like a small letter " t " with the ends of the horizontal bar rounded and the top of the vertical bar bent at a 90 degree angle, In the center of the cross there is a hole that is fitted over the magazine charging button to aid in depression of the magazine spring while charging the magazine. The long end of the vertical bar has a slotted screwdriver tip that is used to aid in removal of the firing pin. You can usually find original magazine tools at gun shows selling for around $25.00, repros sell for around $10.00. Unfortunately the name that is engraved on your Luger will drastically affect it's value. Values for Lugers like yours in "mint" condition are in the $550 - $650 range but the name will lower your value to $300 - $350, your holster is worth $75 - $125. You can dispose of your old ammo by sending it to me Marc Wade, ... Marc

# 715 - Alleged WWII German Officer's Weapon
8/1/97
Robert

ROHM GMBH SONTHEIM/GRZMOD 63 CAL. 22 LF

Allegedly a WWII German officer's weapon. Any information at all is appreciated. NRA member.

Answer:
Robert, Rohm GmbH of Sontheim/Benz manufactured a large range of cheap revolvers for import to the US prior to the gun control act of 1968 when restrictions on handgun dimensions severely curtailed importation. The Model 63 is a western style, solid frame single action revolver that was available in .22, .32, .38, and .38 special chamberings. I suspect that Rohm was founded after the end of WWII but have been unable to find any information to substantiate my suspicions (maybe one of our readers will be able to furnish us with better information about this). To answer your question about this being an officers weapon, I very much doubt it, the weapon is definitely not military issue and the German taste Gestapo would have arrested an officer within hours of the purchase of such a revolver. There is no collectors interest in Rohm firearms and values for them fall in the $20.00 range... Marc

# 717 - Model 1883 Reichrevolver
8/1/97
Dawn

Inherited as part of my husbands estate is what we believe to be a: Model 1883 Officer's Model, 11mm German Service Revolver, Solid frame, Single action, 6 shot. The maker that is stamped on the frame,(in a small oval), is: F. V. DREYSE on the top of the oval, a capitol H in the center, and on the bottom of the oval is: SOMMERDA, (with the o having three horizontal lines on the side of it, making it look like a capitol o and e stamped closely together.) What appears to be the serial number, 43XX is stamped on the frame in at least 4 places, and each screw, pin, moving part etc. is stamped with 15, the numbers 1 through 6are stamped on the cylinder, on the bottom of the frame, just back of the barrel is B 4 B, on the top of the frame just back of the barrel is either 106 or 10,6 and on the frame, just back of the barrel where there is an octagon shape and the serial number 4315 appears, there is also a crest type marking of what looks to be a sort of eagle with spread wings and just after the number there is what looks like RC with a tiny crown above it. There is also two other markings on the frame, that look very similar, and appear to be possibly a couple of German letters stamped together, one is on the frame just in front of the trigger guard, and the other is on the "door" of the cylinder and the serial number is here too. Has a fixed front site, blued finish, (although someone told me that this pistol shouldn't have a blued finish). It has wooden s m o to be in ect h in gh just th lster, and appears to have some sort

Answer:
Dawn, I think that I may be able to supply you with some information about your model 1883 Reichrevolver. Waffenfabrik von Dreyse, Sommerda was founded in about 1842 by Johann Niklaus von Dreyse. Dreyse manufactured Reichsrevolvers from 1892 to about 1895. My records indicate that Reichsrevolvers were originally blue although some Belgian copies were left bright. Military issue Reichsrevolvers usually had smooth walnut grips, while commercial grips were checkered, there were some exceptions to this rule, because many companies that produced Reichsrevolvers also accepted private orders, (for example from officers who were allowed to purchase their own weapons). Many special order revolvers were had special features, like checkered hard rubber or walnut grips, some were even manufactured in double action. Military revolvers will quite often have unit markings on the butt. The 10.6 marking that you describe stamped on your barrel are its bore size in millimeters. The numbers 1 - 6 stamped on your cylinder were used for range drill. Values for 1883 Reichsrevolvers are in the $300 - $400 range. Original holsters are quite valuable and can be worth as much as the revolver depending upon condition. Model 1879 revolvers are rarer than model 1883's are, and their values reflect it, model 1879 values are about double that of the model 1883. Model 1879 revolvers are larger with a longer barrel than the 1883. 1879 barrels have a muzzle reinforcement ring (Mundungswust) at the end. Many Reichsrevolvers were issued in WWI and WWII to second line troops (WWII vintage holsters are worth about $20.00)... Marc

# 719 - Shotgun, W. Sumner Liverpool
8/1/97
Jim F.

ENGRAVED WITH LOTS OF SCROLLS ALSO HAS BIRDS AND FLOWER ENGRAVING ALL SCREWSHAS PULL BACK DOUBLE HAMMERS WITH THE WORD LIVERPOOL ENGRAVED ON BARREL CONNECTOR.

I am looking for any or all information about this gun, My wife's great grand father came from England and this gun appears to be at least 100 years old or better. Sorry I can't be more helpful but I do not know a lot about guns.

Answer:
Jim- The only information I have on William Sumners is that he worked in Liverpool around 1858-1860. Therefore I would assume that your shotgun is percussion, not a breechloader. Sounds like a reasonably good quality English piece, probably intended for domestic use. Certainly the sort of thing someone emigrating to the wilds of America would have brought with them. Although because of family connections any old gun can be a cherished heirloom, this one probably has slightly more collector value than most of the old-timers we get asked about. Insurance value would be around $150-350 depending on condition. It is a good idea to check these old muzzle loaders to ensure they are not loaded. Use the ramrod or other stick and see how far it will go down the barrels. Should come to within about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of the end of the barrel. If it ends up about 1 1/2 inch or more from end you could have a dangerous situation. Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 712 - French 07/15 Berthier Carbine
8/1/97
David, Midland, TX, USA

Et(ts) Cortin Soura in script stamped on left side. The script is difficult to read so the spelling may be incorrect. The (ts) is superscript letters. Other marking include "M(le)1907-15". "CC" and circle "J" and circle "C" on the left side of the barrel above the serial number. The right side of the barrel has "MA C 1917".

Any idea what it is?

Answer:
David- The French have the distinction of making some of the ugliest military arms ever. (Remember, their reputation is as lovers, not fighters.) The Model 1907 Mannlicher-Berthier rifle and carbine were modified in 1915 to become the Mle 07/15. These added a sheet metal magazine extension to use 5 round clips instead of 3 round clips. The carbine version was popular and similar to an earlier 1892 model. French arms were frequently altered or updated and lots of additional markings applied, keeping even more people employed. The MA C 1917 markings probably indicate some sort of work performed at Manufacture de Armes at Chattellerault which had been a French arsenal since at least 1833. The other markings are not ones I recognize, but sound Italian. There were all sorts of captured arms altered and reissued to (unlucky) second line troops during WW1 and WW2, and this may be one of those. Need someone who knows more than me to take a look at it. If one of these "ersatz" alterations, there would be some collector interest. There is little demand for the usually beat up French surplus arms, often found in the $40-$100 range. Hope this helps... John Spangler