# 1515 - Cooey Machine And Arms Co. 22
9/29/98
Rob

My grandfather gave me a .22 Cal. Cooey single shot bolt action gun a number of years ago. This gun obviously has been in the family for a number of years and had the dubious distinction of keeping many of my immediate ancestors supplied with food in some very difficult times. Many are the stories surrounding this gun, as I'm sure you realize. I have had no luck in locating any information concerning Cooey rimfire weapons and as such, am turning to you in hopes of discovering at least an approximate age. The stories surrounding this gun lead me to believe an age of 75 to 100 years but have extreme difficulty in believing this. The gun itself is a Cooey .22 caliber rimfire rifle, single shot, bolt action, model number 75 with no serial number or special markings to be found anywhere on the gun. The barrel length is 26" to the breech and it has a "blued" finish. Anything you can tell me about this gun.....age, history....really anything at all, would be ever so much appreciated, as I'm sure you can understand the sentimental value inherent here. You are essentially a last resort since, as I've mentioned already, very little information has come to me regarding this matter. Thank-you very much for your time and, hopefully, your information.

Answer:
Rob- Cooey Machine and Arms Co. Ltd operated in Coburg, Ontario, Canada from 1903-1961, when it was sold to Winchester and starting making Winchesters for sale in Canada. Prior to 1961 Cooey made various .22 repeating rifles, single shot shotguns and maybe a few others. There is little information on any of these models, but very little collector interest. Values are estimated to be in the US$75-100 range. All this info comes from the "Blue Book of Gun Values." Hope it helps... John Spangler

# 1508 - Mod 97 Value
9/29/98
Sam

One Winchester 12-gauge pump Model 97, in good condition. Please give me a high/low price it might bring. I don't own the gun, but believe I could buy it. Thanks!

Answer:
Sam- You might be buying a gun worth $50 or one worth $500. Without knowing much more about the gun (gage, barrel length, serial number, all markings, condition, any special features, or defects) we cannot give you much information on the value. The fair market value is whatever you decide to pay for it if the seller will accept it. You may pay a great deal more than I would, or maybe a great deal less. If you would care to provide all the information necessary, we gladly will do a formal appraisal for only $25.00. Please recognize also that prices vary in different areas. Places with abundant small game have a much higher demand for shotguns than out in the wide open cowboy country. An exception might be the Winchester 97 which is popular with "Cowboy Action Shooters." We always recommend that people buy some good reference material before investing in a gun. For older guns, a copy of Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and Their Values is a good start. (We even have copies of the older 6th edition for sale on our book page at a bargain price, or you can get a copy of the new seventh edition from your local bookstore for $32.95 plus tax.) For newer guns we recommend the Blue Book of Gun Values, or Ned Schwing's Standard Catalog of Firearms. If you are not interested in buying good reference books, but instead want to depend on free advice from strangers, you can expect to make many unwise purchases of questionable items. This is the same approach as getting investment advice from your barber, or looking for dates by reading the walls in the men's room. Free advice is usually worth about what it costs. We advise people (especially those unwilling or unable to spend the time to research items on their own) to buy from a reputable dealer. Yes, you will sometimes pay more than when buying from a stranger, but reputable dealers fully describe their merchandise, including any known defects. They price them fairly, knowing that there are many other dealers you can do business with, and you will not come back if prices are out of line with what similar items are selling for among knowledgeable buyers and sellers. They obey all the laws concerning sales of guns because (a) they must, and (b) it is the right thing to do anyway. Reputable dealers offer inspection periods and refunds if you are unhappy with an item. I am sure we will have a Winchester 97 sometime, and you can see what we think ours is worth, and decide if it meets your needs. We hope it will. If you cannot wait until we offer one, there are many other gun related sites, and you can subscribe to the Shotgun News (see our links page) of to a similar publication, the Gun List for lots of ads for all sorts of guns. Good luck. The old Winchester 97 is my favorite shotgun, invented by that John Browning guy who lived about 50 miles up the road from us... John Spangler

# 1507 - Sling Mounting Swivels Location
9/29/98

Could you please indicate by return e-mail, where recommended mounting of swivels should take place on a Winchester 9422 .22 cal Magnum?

Answer:
Sir- Thanks for contacting us and assuming we know everything. We admit we don't know everything, but will address swivel spacing anyway. There is no right or wrong answer. In practice most rifles seem to have them about 3-4 inches from the buttplate. The upper swivel is often mounted on a barrel band (a strong point) or at a location where it will not interfere with other parts inside the forend. For rifles where the sling is likely to be used for support during shooting, not just for carrying, position the swivel just ahead of where the hand will be grasping the forend. Visually it is nice to have the swivel about 3-4 inches from the forend tip, although this may not work well with lever action guns. Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 1503 - American Arms Company
9/29/98
Sarah

patented.March 21/1882 To, May 16/1883 Would appreciate any help on the history of this company, this gun, and it's value. Thank you

Answer:
Sarah- American Arms Company operated in Boston from about 1866 to 1900. They made several different derringers or revolvers and also double barrel shotguns, all of pretty decent quality and often with some unique features. It looks like the hammerless model is in the $200-425 range in Good and Excellent condition. Hope this helps... John

# 1502 - Mauser Rifle Gewehr 98
9/25/98
John, Olympia, Washington, USA

Waffen Fabrik Mauser A-G Oberndorf1916(some symbol like a cactus?)125 on many partsGM.98 With the information given, can you tell me what this rifle is? I inherited it from my Grandfather who served in WW1 as an Ambulance Driver (for the US Army, I think). Did they issue German Mausers to US personnel? Or did he pick it up as a souvenir? There's also a bayonet and two bayonet covers (metal). The rear sight moves up and down (sighting over a great distance?).Thanks, John

Answer:
John- Your rifle is a German "Gewehr 98" or Model 1898 rifle, made by Mauser's Oberndorf plant in 1916. This was the standard rifle used by German infantry soldiers in WW1, made for the 7.92x57mm cartridge better known in the US as 8mm Mauser. These were definitely not issued to U.S. Ambulance drivers. Your father may have been in the Army, although there were a number of ambulance drivers serving under other auspices. I think the red Cross may have had some, and perhaps other organizations. An old Company of Military Collectors and Historians Journal had a uniform print showing these folks. It is probably a souvenir. A neat item to keep in the family. The bayonet can be one of several different types. All are good collector items. John Spangler

# 1500 - Model 1849 "Pocket"
9/25/98
Catherine

My in-laws have given us a Civil War pistol and we would like to have some idea of the value. It's a Colt, it has matching serial numbers on all parts (14151), the stock has the name W.L. Ornsby, Sq., N.Y. on the stock, with an engraving of 2 horsemen and several dogs. It's difficult to make out the engraving.

Answer:
Catherine- Your .31 caliber revolver is probably a Model 1849 "Pocket" model (So called because it was intended to be carried in a pocket, rather than the larger "belt" or "holster" models intended to be worn respectively in a belt mounted holster, or holster on a saddle). Lots of these pocket model pistols were carried by soldiers in the Civil War. From the serial number, your pistol is a pretty early example, made in 1850. The markings on the round thing in the center (called a "cyllinder") are actually supposed to be a stagecoach robbery scene, and W.L. Ormsby is they guy who did the plate they used to roll the same scene on all the pocket model revolvers. "Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and Their Values" lists these as worth $475 in NRA antique :good condition and $1000 in NRA antique fine condition. There is a very similar pistol known as the Model 1848 "Baby Dragoon" (so called because it was a smaller version of a .44 caliber pistol adopted for use by U.S. Army Dragoons- a type of cavalry unit). Production and serial numbering overlapped between the last 1000 or so of these and the first 1000 or so of the 1849 pocket model. Differences are very minor points that only serious collectors would get excited about. However, the value difference is significant. The "Baby Dragoon" variations are listed at $2,250 and $11,000 in good and fine condition. We need some good photographs (as close as possible) and a pencil rubbing of the markings on the top of the barrel, also the barrel length measurement. Send to John Spangler, Box 711282, Salt Lake City, UT 84171. Hope it turns out to be the valuable one! We will be glad to help you sell it, regardless of which variety it is. Usually a consignment sale works out best for the owner, where we charge a percentage of the sale price. We will be glad to provide references and a sample of the forms we use if you are interested in considering this option... John Spangler

# 1498 - Found An Old Bayonet, What's It Worth?
9/25/98
Phil

Found an old bayonet. Long thin triangular. Looks like it went over a barrel and twist locked with a hose clamp/with straight screw. Has marking at base of blade, "US". What war? What is it worth?

Answer:
Phil- The bayonet you describe was made in many variations between about 1855 and 1900. Values can run from $20 to $200 depending on exact model and condition. The most common type for the .45-70 trapdoor averages about $65-75 retail. We would need to see it or have detailed measurements on length of blade, length of socket and inside diameter of the socket (to 3 decimal places measured 1/4 inch in from the muzzle.). Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 1497 - Springfield M1903 Project
9/25/98
Charles

I recently purchased a Springfield M1903 rifle for a very low price, only thing is the rifle seems to have been sporterized the stock is after-market chopped up, and cut so a Redfield rear sight could be installed. Do you have any GI stocks, rear sights front sights all preferably Springfield? Also were 1903's originally blued or parkerized? The receiver says Springfield M1903, how do I know if its an 03 or an A3? Thanks Charles

Answer:
Charles- Quite often you get about what you pay for. Springfield made only M1903, M1903A1 and M1903A2 rifles, all of which were marked U.S./Springfield/Model 1903/[serial number]. The M1903A1 had a full pistol grip "type C" stock, but was otherwise the same as the M1903. The M1903A2 had the A2 marking hand stamped after the Model 1903 marking and had the stocks removed and a couple of other minor modifications so it could mounted in the barrel of an artillery piece for "sub caliber practice" firing the artillery piece with .30-06 ammo on a regular rifle range instead of expensive full size artillery ammo on a much larger range. Rock Island Arsenal only made M1903 rifles, although some of those were later converted to M1903A1 or M1903A2 configuration. Remington and Smith Corona, made M1903A3s and are marked U.S./[maker name]. Model 03-A3/[serial number]. Only Remington made M1903A4 sniper rifles, marked the same as their M1903A3s, except the markings are split instead of centered on the top of the receiver, and fall in three specific serial number ranges. Okay, from all this we can confirm that you probably have a Model 1903. You should be aware that M1903 Springfields made before mid-1918 and serial number 800,000 (and their cousins made at Rock Island Arsenal under serial 285,506) had receivers which were heat treated in a way that makes them less safe than later production. These "low number" rifles were pulled from service in the army after WW1. However, the army released them for issue again in WW2, and the Marine Corps never withdrew theirs from service (probably due to limited funding.). Experts differ on the safety of shooting the low numbers. I shoot mine, but my lawyer says it is never safe to shoot any gun because it might blow up. (Actually he is afraid it might not, and then he and his antagonist would both miss a payment on their BMWs.) Blue finish was standard until around the end of 1918 when parkerize was adopted, although many earlier guns were later parkerized during overhaul. Some special M1903s (NRA Sporters and some target rifles) continued to be blued. We can provide front and rear sights to restore many U.S. military arms. Stocks are not always available, although we usually have a few that may be usable but not an exact match for what was originally issued. (Example- 03A3 stock will work fine and was often installed during overhaul, but a pre-WW2 M1903 would have originally had a much scarcer "finger groove" stock.) We usually have some of the bands, swivels, buttplates, handguards, screws, etc as well. We need to know the serial number, barrel date, type of finish, and amount of finish left. To be honest, I am not willing to sell a nice finger groove stock (even if one were available) and all milled parts to put on a WW2 rebarreled, reblued low number rifle that has been drilled and tapped. Maybe other stuff would suffice. We need to conserve the really hard to get good stuff for a restoration project that deserves it. Of course, other dealers sell this stuff too. Sarco and Gun Parts (see our links) have a lot of parts. One warning, I have heard a number of people unhappy about condition of Sarco stocks, and ability to ship what was ordered. Our prices are often less, and we are collectors and will try to match what you need, not just ship whatever is on the top of the pile... John Spangler

# 1496 - Flare Gun- German
9/22/98
Mark

Barrel facing left = "duv" on it and "5942 41 b(looks like a lower case script "b") Barrel facing right Many eagles with wings spread and head facing left with the swastika in a circle at the eagles claws. Many of them have the number "214" under the swastika. The inside barrel measures 1" and the gun is in very good condition except for as few minor nicks and scratches. What is the history of this gun and is there any historical or monetary value?

Answer:
Mark- Your flare gun was made by Berliner-Lbecker Maschinenfabrik, Lubeck plant, probably in 1941. These were "4-bore or nominally 26.6mm bore diameter (real close to 1 inch). It is probably the "Heeremodelle" or Army model that went through several variations, mainly the shift from steel to zinc ally frames. These were made by a number of manufacturers. There were other similar flare pistols made for Luftwaffe or Navy use. Some oddball variants have two or three barrels. Flare pistols were used to signal (like- "Hey, dummy we are on your side!") or to command the start or end of supporting fore, infantry or armor attacks, etc. Flares came in various colors in single or multiple stars. Some used small parachutes to slow the rate of descent and could provide illumination for night time maneuver (before everybody had night vision devices). Very interesting historical items, but we cannot tell you anything exciting about your particular pistol. This is a specialized collecting field, and values depend on how bad you want to sell one, or how bad the other guy wants to own one. For the common types, I see $150 price tags a lot, but don't see them sell very fast. Hope this helps. John Spangler

# 1491 - 1920-s Gun Books
9/22/98
Patrick

I am looking for a historical reprint of any 1920's general firearms catalogs or shooter's bibles. I need a comprehensive listing of pistols, rifles and shotguns including the infamous Thomson SMG with pictures (or drawings) of the same scale in the 1920's area. Any 1928 reprints would be appreciated specifically. I would also accept any historical collector's books concentrating on civilian/military arms in the 1920's as well. Can you help me? If so, e-mail me at kcrock@zoomnet.net with any help you may have for me.

Answer:
Patrick - I don't have any single item to recommend. Any of the general gun reference books will have info on some of the guns popular during the 1920s, but it may be difficult to sort them out from all the rest. (Try Small Arms of the World, the Book of Rifles, or the Book of Pistols & Revolvers all in various editions and edited by Joseph Smith). Your next best source covering a wide range would be copies of "The American Rifleman" from the period with ads and probably some product reviews, etc. Try Highwood Bookshop in Traverse City, MI for back issues of this and other gun magazines. The most detailed information but limited to a single maker will be in old catalogs. I know there are reprints of Auto Ordnance catalogs of the era (Thompson sub machine guns) Smith & Wesson, and others in inexpensive paperback form. Rutgers Book Center in Highland Park NJ or IDSA books in Piqua OH are good sources. The complete Winchester series of catalogs has been reprinted, but you probably don't need all 10 volumes for your research. Various military manuals are also available in reprint editions and of course originals are still available but rather scarce from that period. Your last choice would be digging into the books that deal with a specific maker or even specific model of firearm. There are at least 3 or 4 on the Colt M1911 .45 automatic, several on Smith & Wessons, a couple on Winchester shotguns, etc. These will have the most detail and greatest variety or illustrations. Sounds like you might be an author researching a book (not about guns). You might check with a gun collectors group or shooting club in your area to find a local collector who may have a library they can share with you. Be nice and you might even get an invitation to shoot some of the stuff you will write about. It was interesting to see the reactions of some history professors when they got a chance to fire a variety of old guns from the period they had written extensively on. Good luck... John

# 1486 - U.S. Rifle With Wooden Barrel
9/22/98
Ken, MS, Gautier, US

U S TRENTON (next to spread eagle), PAT AUG 16 1870, I am a complete novice at this so please bear with me. I recently acquired a rifle (trap door model?) with the above markings. The middle of the barrel (just over 13") has been cutout and replaced with a wooden dowel. What is left of the barrel is clearly rifled. I would like to know more about this gun if you can help. Thanks, Ken

Answer:
Ken- You have what is sometimes called a "Quaker gun" due to the wooden barrel which makes it a non-firing gun. In reality, these were simply inexpensive rifles made for use by "Boys Brigades" or other youth groups with a military tone. These were popular from about 1875 to 1910 when the Boy Scout movement began to take hold. The most common "Quaker guns" are those made with Civil War musket parts (Stocks, locks, and bands) but with wooden barrels and a cast iron breech section and often an iron muzzle section with a stud so a bayonet could be used. Much less often seen is a version made using a .45-70 trapdoor breech assembly with the barrel removed and replaced by a wooden section, and a muzzle section from the original barrel attached on the front. I have seen these with the ramrod bayonet mechanism and shortened bayonet used, and also the earlier version taking a socket bayonet. Your breech section is from a .45-70 trapdoor made about 1892. Lockplates marked US/Trenton and eagle were used in Civil War muskets. I have no idea what the patent date refers to. Some dealers try to sell these as rare military training rifles, but they are commercial products made from military parts, and not worth much except as parts, in my opinion. Hope this helps. John Spangler

# 1484 - Remington Rifle No 6
9/22/98
Don, Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Small rifle, 34" from tip to butt. Apart from the serial # and Remington stamp (Patented July 22 1902) the are no model marks. I've never seen a gun like this one, it has what could best be described as a swingdown breech, in front of the hammer. It is single shot, flip down the 'breech' and load the cartridge then swing the 'breech' back up. It also has a flip-up rear pinhole sight, about 1.5 inches high. (It is clear not to accurate as there are no stops to it).It also has a thumbscrew on the bottom forward of the trigger guard. I can think of no reason for this thumbscrew other than possibly for a tripod. The barrel is rifled. The Remington logo is stamped on the metal buttplate. I'd like to know the model number of this gun, and the dates manufactured if possible. I got this gun for $10 CDN and am wondering if it's worth anything. I looked all over the web for some info to no avail. There is very sparse info on .32 ammunition (Especially for rifles).This gun is so small, it could only comfortably be used by early teenagers (Or real small people).Thanks in advance! Don.

Answer:
Don- Your excellent description made this easy. The flip up rear sight was the key that broke the tie. You have one of over 250,000 Remington Number 6 falling block rifles made between 1902 and 1933. These were all similar except for caliber, offered in .22 short, long or long rifle, and .32 short and long, and also available as smoothbores. The thumbscrew on the bottom has a much less exotic use than a tripod or bipod. It is simply the means to break the rifle down into two pieces. We know it is worth at least CDN$10, because you were willing to pay that. Flayderman's Guide lists a value of $125 in NRA antique very good and $350 in excellent condition. (See our links for definition of the conditions).

These were simple, light weight pieces intended for sale as "boys' rifles" when kids were civilized and taught how to behave. Now you Canadians have decided even adults cannot be trusted with many kinds of guns, and the US may not be far behind. Guess it is easier to blame the guns for the problems when it is the people who have gotten dangerous. U.S. citizens better get off their lazy butts and start getting active in politics and make darn sure they GET OUT AND VOTE or they will see the loss of their right to own guns. John

# 1482 - Bayonet- French Model 1874
9/19/98
David, Bentonville, AR, U.S

French Writing on back edge of blade with a date. Date:1874The writing as best as I can follow: Mrd d' Ovenes de Lt Etieme ?bre 1874 I was wondering if it had any value, were it came from, what war was it used in? It has a slight curve in it and the blade is about 24 inches long. The handle has a copper color to it

Answer:
David- We thank you folks in Bentonville for giving us Wal-Mart, and forgive you for the misdeed of your former Governor who obviously never learned any of the virtues of honesty or fair dealing that Mr. Sam espoused.

You have a French bayonet made for the Model 1874 Gras 11mm bolt action rifle. The writing on the blade indicates the place and date of manufacture, translated as "Manufacture of Arms, St. Etienne, October 1874". These were made by several different arsenals, and some saw service as late as WW1. There is an earlier Model 1866 French bayonet with an all brass handle that also has markings on the top of the blade. All these bayonets are very common, and although old and fancy looking, do not bring much money. Prices range from $35-75 depending on condition. Hope this helps. John Spangler

# 1479 - Winchester Hotchkiss
9/19/98
Frank, Rhinebeck, NY USA

Rifling is very clear and intact, guns fires; saddle ring is present. Gun is in quite respectable condition I don't see much information on this gun. Is it a desirable piece and does it have value?

Answer:
Frank- The Winchester Hotckiss series is very interesting, with only about 84,000 made, all numbered in a single series. The first "Model 1879" runs about 1-6419, the second from 6420 to 22521, and the third "Model 1883" from 22522 to the end. About 4,000 were procured for Army or Navy use, of various models, although it is not clear if all were bought from Winchester or some were made entirely, or merely assembled at Springfield Armory. The military examples usually have V/P/eagle head proof marks on the barrel, and ESA/date or SWP/date cartouches on the stock. Some of the third model rifles purchased for trials do not have these marks, but have DFC markings on the metal and wood.

With a saddle ring, yours is probably a correct carbine, and the 24 inch barrel length is correct for the military second model carbine (your serial number places it there instead of the first model). These should have a strange nickel plated forend tip with a hinged door for a cleaning rod. I have no information on your gun, but carbine serial number 12704 has been documented by the Springfield Research Service as being with Troop D of the 4th Cavalry as of May 13, 1882. It is possible that others in this troop or regiment had more Hotchkiss carbines.

These usually seem to be found in mediocre condition, but there is still good collector interest. Flayderman indicates a value for a military marked second model carbine of $750 in NRA antique good, or $2,000 in NRA antique fine condition. Let us know if you decide to sell it, we can help you find a good home for it... John Spangler

# 1477 - U.S. M1816 Musket
9/19/98
Laurie, Lansing, Michigan

I have an old gun passed down from the civil war from family. The barrel is 42 inches long with an overall length of 57.5 inches. "1843" is marked on the tab that connects the barrel to the stock. There is a "2P8" on the hammer. There is a Harper's Ferry mark on it on the side and I believe the number with it is "143." It has a bayonet with it but it could very well have been modified to use it. Does anyone know what it is, the year manufactured or any other info that might help me identify it. Any info would be helpful! Thanks!

Answer:
Laurie- You did a good job describing this. It is definitely a U.S. Model 1816 musket, .69 caliber, made at Harpers Ferry Armory,. Probably in 1843. (Lock marking underneath the Harpers/Ferry is the date, and the last two digits should match the date on the barrel, which would confirm it as 1843. These were among the last smoothbore flintlock muskets delivered to the U.S. Army, little changed from the arms used in the Revolutionary War 60+ years earlier. Most of these were converted to percussion and widely used during the Civil War by both sides. Some were left smoothbore, and some had the barrels rifled to take advantage of the greater accuracy and range possible when firing Minie balls from rifled barrels. The stock should go almost to the muzzle and be held by three iron bands, but many had the stock cut off after the Civil War and were used as poor man's shotguns being about the same as a 12 gage gun. Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 1471 - Bayonet Cleaning
9/19/98
Andrew

I have two bayonets for sale; m1895 Mauser contract rifle made for the Chilean army' m1896 Mauser contract rifle made for Swedish army. I do not know how to rate the condition, they look good to me. The Swedish one looks excellent, the Chilean one shows wear. They both would look much better if I cleaned them up, but I do not know whether that would detract from the value. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
Andy- These are not real scarce, real valuable items, so they will be good to practice on. I recommend using WD-40 and fine steel wool (000 or 000 grade sometimes called extra fine or something like that.) Scrubbing with those will get most of the dirt, grease and crud off. If there are little rust flakes you can sometimes get them off with the edge of an artist's "pallet knife" which is a thin flexible blade that looks like a small butter knife. Wal-Mart has them for a couple of dollars. You will be amazed at how much rust can be removed this way and still discover blue finish underneath. Practice a little bit and use plenty of WD-40 or oil and hold the blade at about a 45 degree angle. Practice on a small area until you get the feel for it. This can get pretty messy, and my wife wont let me do it on the dining room table anymore. In fact, she makes me do it in the garage, but then I don't have to sleep in the dog house anymore. Surfaces that were originally finished bright can be cleaned with fine emery cloth (320 grade is about right, or maybe even finer than that). Try to keep the strokes back and forth, not in circles. Use a file or piece of hard wood to back the emery cloth up and do not "shoe shine" things which will round off corners. Finish up with steel wool or an extra fine wire brush (sometimes hard to find, but don't use one that will hurt the surface.) If it was not finished bright, then don't use emery cloth! Wood grips can be cleaned with some solvent then work in a little linseed oil or maybe tung oil. Not enough to refinish a piano, just a few drops to keep the wood from drying out. Treat any leather scabbards with some Pecard or Lexol leather treatments (NOT Neatsfoot oil!!!!) You can find these in shoe departments or places that have saddles or other leather goods. If you get a real rare piece it may be best to do nothing, and it is always better to clean too little rather than too much. Leave a light coat of WD-40 or oil on the metal parts. You may want to put a number or tag on each bayonet and start making a list of what you have, the markings, and what they fit. Get a copy of "Bayonets from Janzen's Notebook" and you can tell what you have and figure out what you want to look for next. We have several links to interesting bayonet sites, including one with info on Swedish bayonets. Enjoy!... John Spangler

# 1470 - Double Barrel Musket From The Civil War Era
9/15/98
Ken Linthicum, MD

I have a double barrel musket from the civil war era. It has been passed down through my family and supposedly my great, great grandfathers. He fought in the civil war for the confederates, but was discharged from the Union Army at Ft Leavenworth Kansas. We believe he was captured and joined the Union Army where he went West to fight the Indians. The Musket has it's original powder horn, plunger and has some markings on the metal. Pyne and London Fine Twist! 'm trying to find some information on this make of musket to determine it's origin and ultimately it's worth. Could you please help or point in the right direction. Thanx!

Answer:
Ken- The story sounds much better than the gun. The gun is properly called a shotgun rather than a musket. (Muskets were single barrel and fired a solid ball, usually had long stocks and were equipped with a bayonet. Shotguns were made much lighter and "twist" or "Damascus" barrels were supposed to be more desirable for strength and lighter weight.) A very few shotguns were cut down and used by mounted troops during the Civil War, but otherwise shotguns are not considered to be military arms. I could not find any listing for Pyne as either an English or an American maker. Percussion shotguns of the era 1850-1880 have marginal collector interest or value and are usually in the under $200 range with little demand. That said, there is probably truth in the statement that it belonged to someone who fought in the Civil War. There were a number of Confederate prisoners who enlisted in the Union army. I believe that they were generally sent west to face hostile Indians rather than their former comrades. These were often termed "galvanized Yankees" and there is a book by that title which may be worth reading to learn of their experiences. It may also have listings of names, or identify the main regiments involved. If you can narrow it down, it may be possible to request copies of service record and pension documents from the National Archives. Those may also indicate prior service with the "other" side and furnish enough information to get copies of his Confederate service records as well. Sure would be nice to track this down instead of waiting a generation longer when details get murkier. Ft. Leavenworth was close to the point where the Santa Fe trail headed south while the Oregon trail continued west, so his discharge from there sounds plausible. Good luck... John Spangler

# 1469 - Rifle, US Springfield 1872
9/15/98
Larry

Could you provide some basic facts about the above rifle. Mine has the model "1871" on the left side of the chamber. Thanks Larry

Answer:
Larry- Springfield made 10,001 of these in 1871-72. They are single shot .50-70 caliber rifles built on the Remington rolling block action, but entirely made at Springfield Armory. Except for the action, they are virtually identical to the Model 1870 "trapdoor" rifles. Around 1870 the Army was trying to figure out the best weapon for the vastly diminished forces (less than 50,000 troops compared to nearly a million men only 5 years earlier at the end of the Civil War.) Clearly some sort of breech loader was appropriate, but which type, invented by whom (possibly with congressional friends) to be made in what congressional district? And, at what cost? After a great military victory Congress saw little need to spend money on Army needs when they had mountains of surplus material including hundreds of thousands of rifles, carbines, and pistols available for regular army and militia use. Between 1865 and 1873 Army ordnance produced the following models, all of which used many parts available from surplus .58 rifle muskets: (a) 3,000 .50 rimfire Joslyn rifles; (b) 5,000 Model 1865 .58 rimfire "First Allin" trapdoor conversions; (c) 25,000 Model 1866 .50-70 centerfire "Second Allin" trapdoor conversions; (d) 51,389 Model 1868 .50-70 trapdoor rifles using a mix of new and converted parts; (e) 11,533 Model 1870 .50-70 trapdoor rifles with a mix of new and surplus parts. Besides the Remington action, Springfield also made the following rifles which were virtually identical except for action to the Model 1870 trapdoor: (f) 1,011 Model 1871 .50-70 Ward-Burton single shot bolt action rifles; (g) 1,300 .50-70 rifles using Sharps actions (all but 300 from surplus Civil War carbines or rifles); and (h) 1,108 Spencer carbines in .50-rimfire converted to infantry rifles. The .50-70 arms (and the Spencer conversions) were issued to troops in the field for trials. At the conclusion of these trials it was decided to stick with the trapdoor system, although with a smaller .45-70 cartridge. A lighter rifle was possible, but at a higher cost since the only Civil War surplus parts used now were the buttplate, trigger guard assembly and most of the internal parts from the locks. A book by some forgettable author entitled "Misfire!" alleging to be a study of the U.S. Ordnance department implies that they never had an original thought, fought every attempt to have better arms, and were inept fools, corrupt incompetents, or old fogies unable to recognize progress if it hit them between the eyes. The truth, evident from the 1865-73 small arms trials, is that the U.S. Army demonstrated remarkable ingenuity and eagerness to provide better weapons while remaining within budgetary constraints at a time of rapidly evolving technology. Similar conclusions could be drawn from events in other time periods, each with their own unique sets of circumstances confronting those responsible for providing enough weapons of suitable design, at a reasonable cost to allow our troops to win on the battlefield. This is always done in an atmosphere of budgetary constraints, and pressure to wait just a little longer because some great invention will surely be ready for production soon, and political maneuvering to influence decisions for other (not always pure) reasons. Your Model 1871 rifle, and most other U.S. military arms, represent an interesting series of historical events, and technological advances... John Spangler

# 1468 - Over - Under Remington Derringers
9/15/98
Nelson

Greetings. Today my father brought over and gave to me a pair of derringers. These have serial numbers of 201 & 262. From what I have found from searching the WWW for information, the caliber is .41. He told me an oral history of how he came in possession of the pistols and they have been in his possession for 60+/- years. They are in great condition. Any information on these derringers would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
Nelson- I assume you have the over-under Remington derringers. About 150,000 were made between 1866 and 1935. Flayderman's guide has some information on at least four variations of these. Based on the serial number I would say these were made in 1866 or 1867. They should be marked with the Remington markings on the rib on the side of the barrel. These are rather caluable compared to the later examples where the markings were moved to the flat on the top of the barrel. If this is the correct model, Flayderman lists a value of $700 in NRA antique good, and $2,000 in NRA antique fine. (See our links for definition). For comparison, the more common variations run about $225 and $575 in good and fine condition respectively.

Note that all the above is ASSUMING that they are the Remington over-under type. During the percussion era .41 caliber was also popular for Deringers, which may have been the reason for creation of the .41 rimfire cartridge in the first place. A distant relative of mine opened the door then held the horse for John Wilkes Booth when he used a .41 Deringer to shoot Lincoln. I was flattered to be told I am as good looking as old Edward Spangler, but then someone showed me a photo of the ugly old geezer.

There were many cartridge Derringers in .41 rimfire by a wide variety of makers, including single shot models and small revolvers. If you sent a picture we could have been much more help. Hope this helps... John

# 1467 - Hoban 45 .22
9/15/98

I'm trying to find reference for an old rifle I acquired. If you're interested or can help me, please do. It is a "Mauser" copycat, looks like it was probably made around one of the world wars. It has Hoban #45 .22 cal s-l-lr stamped on it.

Answer:
Sir- The "Hoban 45" was introduced in 1945 and faded from the scene by 1950. In the early 1950s, a German firm made several hundred copies. Jim Perkins "American Boys' Rifles" has several pages on these. You can get a copy on interlibrary loan from your local library for a very small fee, or perhaps free. Hope this helps... John

# 1505 -
9/12/98
Dan , Franklin, TN, US

Yes I am trying to figure out the maker of my Springfield, it has cal 30-06 NATL ORD model 1903A3 on the receiver it also has RA with the flaming bomb and 6-44 on the barrel. I was under the impression that only Remington and smith corona made the A3s any insight to this would be very appreciated.

Answer:
Dan, I hope that you did not pay full price for your '03A3. NAT ORD is an abbreviation for National Ordnance, Incorporated of South EI Monte, California. From 1965 to 1974, National Ordnance assembled 1903A3 rifles from surplus military parts on somewhat crudely finished, receivers that were manufactured in Yugoslavia and/or Spain... Marc

# 1462 - Inventor Of The Gatling Gun Genealogy
9/12/98
Barbra

We are trying to race genealogy, Frank Gatling-the inventor of the Gatling gun is an ancestor can you help us find information on him? Thank you for your cooperation, I certainly hope someone can help.

Answer:
Barbra- Thanks for contacting us. We will try to help all we can, but that may not be too much.

At Kansas City this weekend they had TWO Gatling guns, one of which is believed to have been one used at San Juan Hill outside Santiago, Cuba, in support of the attack by Teddy Roosevelt's "Rough Riders" and other U.S. troops. They were taking it to the upper part of Missouri to shoot it today. The second gun was a consecutively numbered piece with the first. Absolutely amazing to see both these in the same place.

I believe the inventor was Richard Jordan Gatling, so I cannot help identify Frank. There are two books on the subject, the first by Toppell and Wahl "The Gatling Gun" which is out of print, and deals almost exclusively with the guns. The second I believe is called "Gatling- The Man and the Gun" and deals mostly with the inventor. Being mostly interested in the hardware, I never bothered to get a copy, or even look closely. However, it sounds like something you would find most interesting. Genealogy research is a specialty of its own, and Salt Lake City is probably the best location the world to do it because of the emphasis on the subject by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (better known as Mormons.) They have a genealogical reference library that has reference material and copies of stuff from all over the world, and reportedly are very helpful when visitors want to use any of it. There are a lot of people who do that sort of research for a fee, but I do not know any to recommend. Good luck on your research... John

# 1461 - M1 Carbine Barrels By Marlin
9/12/98
Alan, Birmingham, Alabama, USA

"Marlin" on barrel Did Marlin supply replacement barrels or is this the original? I bought the carbine from the DCM.

Answer:
Alan- Between July of 1943 and March of 1944 Marlin was supposed to ship 68,499 barrels to National Postal Meter for M1 Carbine production. Delivery of at least 21,500 have been confirmed. Therefore it is quite likely that your carbine was originally made with the Marlin barrel. National Postal Meter did not make any barrels, but got all barrels as government furnished material from other sources. It is also possible that some were turned in as spares and it may have been installed later during overhaul. Larry Ruth's superb two volume set "War Baby" and "War Baby Comes Home" have just about everything you need to know about carbines... John Spangler

# 1455 - Brooklyn Firearms Co. Revolver
9/12/98
Marian, Corydon, Indiana, USA

rosewood grips five shot decorative scroll work on barrel and frame"B.A. CO. PATENT APRIL 14th 1863" on top of barrel Was this a Civil War gun? Where should I have it appraised?

Answer:
Marian- About 10,000 of these were made in .32 caliber rimfire in 1863-64, and undoubtedly many carried by soldiers or for self defense by city dwellers or country folks. Flayderman's Guide places the value in NRA Antique "Good" and "Fine" (see out links for definition) as $275 and $625 respectively. There is also a scarce .22 version holding seven shots worth about twice as much. These are sometimes call Slocum revolvers and the strange sliding chamber arrangement was an attempt to get around the Rollin White patent held by Smith & Wesson which gave them exclusive rights to make revolvers with chambers drilled all the way through the cylinders.. This one patent gave S&W control of most of the cartridge revolver business in the US prior to 1872, and kept a whole bunch of inventors busy looking for ways to get around it, and a plague of lawyers eating the profits of both S&W and the inventors arguing about who could do what. It would be pretty interesting to try to get an example of one of every type of the "Rollin White patent evasion" designs made, or all of the guns that infringed on the patent and usually got turned over to S&W when they won the lawsuit. Hope this helps... John Spangler

# 1458 - Mosserg 44US
9/8/98
Howard, Twin Falls, Idaho

This rifle has a uniquely heavy stock with finger grips and a bizarre peep sight combination on the end of the barrel. What is the history of this rifle? Does it have any collector value.

Answer:
Howard, the Mossberg 44US was manufactured from 1943 to 1945, it is a .22 caliber target rifle with a 26 inch barrel an overall length of 43 inches and a weight of 8.5 LBS. These rifles came with an aperture rear sight, hooded ramp front sight and detachable sling swivels. Collector demand for these rifles is not high, blue book values range from $170 to $320 for examples that are US property marked and $125 to $200 for rifles that are not US property marked... Marc

# 1451 - Shooting Civil War Rifles
9/8/98

Is it possible to acquire a civil war rifle reproduction and ammunition for it? Are originals too expensive and without munitions? I am interested in target practice with this powerful and accurate weapon.

Answer:
Sir- We do not recommend firing any original Civil War weapons. There are lots of reproductions available at prices lower than those of shootable originals. In my opinion, the best of the reproduction long arms are the Parker Hale brand .577 caliber rifle-muskets, musketoons and carbines. These are superbly made copies of the arms with barrels about 39, 33, and 24 inches long. The original were widely used by both U.S. and Confederate troops. Several firms sell copies of .58 caliber Springfield rifle muskets, and very similar variations copied from the Colt 1861 special model. These are made in Japan or Italy, and seem to be reasonably well liked, but I get upset at some tiny little details that are not quite right. The most commonly seen arms are copies of the .58 caliber Remington Zouave, usually made in Italy. Popular mainly on account of low prices, the quality ranges from very good to sloppy. All these are muzzle loaders which fire "Minie" balls weighing about an ounce, and use percussion caps. The effective range is about 300-500 yards firing against a formation of troops, and about 100-250 yards against individual troops. Some people use these for black powder big game hunting (deer, etc). While firing one by yourself is fun, it is really fun to get dozens of men (women too?) in full uniform firing them in competition. The North-South Skirmish Association (NSSA) has member organizations all over the country recreating Civil War units. They get together for matches in their local area and twice a year gather at their campgrounds and range called Ft. Shenandoah near Winchester, VA. Besides musket matches, they fire pistols, carbines, and artillery at a variety of bullseye and action targets. You can order these reproductions from any gun dealer. Learn the safety rules. Use the right ammunition (black powder or Pyrodex) and soft lead bullets (you can cast your own at home if you like), Clean the gun carefully (hot soapy water) and oil it afterwards and it will last for years. You and your kids can learn about old gun technology, and a lot about American history. Enjoy... John

# 1449 - Harder Combination Gun
9/8/98
Brad, Rochester, NY, USA,

On side of top barrel is stamped 38. On side of bottom barrel is stamped 16. On top of top barrel is stamped: HARDERS PATENTDATED JUNE 9 1885 We are unable to find very much info regarding this gun. The little that we have found is that Harder was located in Lockhaven, PA and employed 8 people. 20 This is an over under design. The outside of the barrels are octagonal shaped. The 38 barrel is rifled. It has a front and rear sight. We are wondering how rare this gun is and any other info that you may find out.

Answer:
Brad- We cannot add much. Frank Sellers' "American Gunsmiths" shows Jacob Harder as working in Lock Haven, PA circa 1860-1888. His patent number 319482 of June 9, 1885 related to a breechloading firearm. He made multi barrel percussion rifles and patent breechloader. Jacob's son Frank worked with him at Lock Haven and his grandson George was a gunsmith in Tyropne and Williamsport, PA. Another of Jacob's sons, John E. Harder of Clearfield also made rifles using the Harder patent. (Sellers cites Muzzle Blasts Dec 1944 as the source of most of this information. That magazine may or may not have much more info.) I have no idea what one of these guns looks like, but given the family's involvement in the business they were probably made in reasonable numbers, although the market area may have been limited to the mid-Atlantic states. However, with Lock Haven being on the old Pennsylvania Canal route, distribution may have been much wider. You might try the Lock Haven (or appropriate county) Historical Society, or check back copies of the local newspaper. Heck, check the phone book for any Jacob or John Harders and you might find a family member who (a) can tell you all about these old guns or (b) will be amazed to learn that grandpa made guns. Good luck... John Spangler

# 1439 - Colt 1861 Navy Revolver
9/8/98

Colt Pistol Someone told me a 1861 Navy revolver 8" estimate Blue finish- brass trigger guard serial- 38340 on chamber: patent 8340 Sept. 10 1850 I would like any history on the weapon. It is said to belong to my great.......... grandfather who was a riverboat pilot. Thank you for any information.

Answer:
Sir- Your M1861 .36 caliber Navy revolver should have a six shot cylinder, 7.5 inch barrel and be streamlined like the Model 1860 army. The similar model 1851 Navy has an octagonal barrel and sharp corners on the lower portion of the barrel. Yours was made in 1873, one of the last of the percussion Colts. Colt may be able to provide (for a considerable fee) info on when and where it was originally shipped. (Often nothing more interesting than Jones Hardware Company Podunk Arkansas with three others; but sometimes something real interesting.) Hope this helps. Riverboat pilots- fascinating people with great talent, guts and knowledge unappreciated by most people today. Until the railroads finally formed a communications link across the country, riverboats were the major means of transportation and commerce from the 1850 until near 1890. Pilots and Captains had to be able to defend themselves, enforce discipline and were often the only law around. Great connection... John Spangler

# 1447 - Rifle- German Model 1871/84 Mauser
9/5/98
G.S.Hartman

Recently I acquired an old rifle but I have no idea as to what make , caliber or country of origin. I have very little information to offer but here goes. The rifle over all is about 48" long. It looks to be .45 or .50 caliber. At the muzzle end beneath the barrel there is a cap that has a short piece of rod with a ball on it . This cap and rod assembly un screws, and looks to be a magazine of sorts as it extends down the length of the barrel to the breech. The rifle is of bolt action design (looks like part of the bolt is missing, but the bolt handle is attached ). There is a screw on top of the bolt that looks to be for holding the bolt from coming out of the receiver when firing. There is also a plate to the rear of the breech that looks to be an elevator , like a shotgun. The only markings are SPANDAU and 1886 and various crowns or something. Is this a German rifle ? What caliber would it be ? And is it worth anything ? Any help you could render would be greatly appreciated. Thank You G.S.Hartman

Answer:
G.S. Peter and Paul Mauser's first successful bolt action rifle was the Model 1871 single shot. In 1884 the design was improved by addition of a tubular magazine under the barrel, and most of the 1871 rifles converted to Model 1871/84. Spandau was one of several German arsenals that made military arms. The various crowns may differ slightly as the semi-independent German states each had troops of their own appropriately marked. There is a fair amount of interest in these old rifles, and value will depend heavily on condition. It is still possible to find the Model 1871 and 1871/84 rifles in really excellent condition, although prices are much higher than average condition examples. Value is probably between $100 and $600 depending on condition... John Spangler

# 1448 - Should I Shoot My Colt?
9/5/98
Mike

Gun was purchased 1959 or earlier and was recently found. It does not appear to have ever been fired. Local gun shop tells me that it has some value - about $500+. My question: Will firing this gun lower it's value? Thanks for your help. Mike

Answer:
Mike, you didn't furnish a serial number, so I can not provide you with a year of manufacture. I would estimate the value of your Colt in unfired mint condition to be in the $575 range, $650 if you have the original box and papers. My opinion is that your Commander's value would be lowered by at least 20% if you fire it. If you are looking for a nice Colt that you are able fire without lowering the value, check our Modern Firearms catalog, we have several listed there including an enhanced .38 super... Marc

# 1440 - S&W M1917 Revolver
9/5/98
Mike Knox, IN USA

What barrel lengths did these revolvers come in ?A dealer at a gun show said that the barrel on the one I have had been cut down. I've been searching the net for info and have only found reference to a 3 1/3" barrel in the dejanews archives, but my email to the poster was returned addressee unknown. Thanks, Mikemvician@skyenet.net

Answer:
Mike- The S&W M1917 revolver was made with barrels 5.5 inches long. Anything less is cut down... John Spangler

# 1490 - Colt Musket
9/5/98
Doug

Marked 1863 Manufacturers name and city,town I inherited this gun from a friend who received it from his friend that was a gun dealer. Was this a common type and where can I find info on it?

Answer:
Doug- Colt was making "Model 1861 Special" .58 caliber rifle muskets in 1863, so that is probably what your gun started off as. These were a cross between the standard Model 1861 Springfield for external features, but with internal lock parts virtually identical with the Pattern 1853 .577 Enfield. I suspect that Robbins & Lawrence earlier production of that model and furnishing machinery to Enfield so they could produce fully interchangeable parts strongly influenced the approval of this model at a time when dozens of other manufacturers were struggling to deliver regular Model 1861 muskets. Flayderman's guide has the basic info on these. Robert Reilly's U.S. Military Small Arms 1816-1865 is superb on all Civil War arms, and Claud Fuller's "The Rifled Musket" has even more info. Bill Edwards "Civil War Guns"

I would hope that the gun dealer who supplied it could have told you something about it, since he could examine it in detail, and we only have a very little info to go on. I suspect that your gun has been cut down and bored out for use as a shotgun, but cannot be sure... John Spangler

# 1428 - Shotgun- Long Tom
9/1/98
mwest@inlink.com

The only other marking on the piece are the words LONG TOM on the left side of the breech. This is a single shot, exposed hammer shotgun. It has no safety. There is an extractor mechanism. I saw the posting #1364 and have more specific information. I still haven't found out anything about "LONG TOM". Any additional help you can provide in identifying this piece and its history is greatly appreciated.

Answer:
Sir- This is a trade name used by Sears Roebuck on shotguns. I would estimate it was made circa 1900-1920... John Spangler

# 1424 - Rifle Sight "O'Hare Micrometer"
9/1/98
Dave, Lancaster, PA, USA,

Can you give me any information about a micrometer device used to set the elevation on the ladder sight of the '03 rifle. I have seen one that was made by P.J. O'Hare Co. Newark N.J. Was this a military item or an aftermarket competitive device? When and how were they used, and what is the aprox value of such a piece?

Answer:
Dave- The O"Hare sight micrometer was popular with competitive shooters to make fine adjustments to the M1903 Springfield rear sight. These were not military issue items, although some were undoubtedly bought and used by military shooters. About 2.5 inches long and .75 inch diameter these have an adjusting knob at the top which raises and lowers a pair of fingers projecting from the lower part of the device. The side is graduated to show the position of the fingers. The shooter would hook the upper part of the gizmo on the top of the rifle's sight ladder and then with the fingers under the adjustable part of the sight use the knob at the top to raise or lower the fingers the desired amount. A much more precise method than trying to eyeball the tiny marks on the sight and then slide the movable part up or down before locking it in place with the lock screw. These were most popular from about 1910-1960 when the M1903 rifle was the weapon of choice for high power target shooting. Prices seem to run in the $50-60 range, although I have seen some offered for $90-100. While the O'Hare was the most popular, similar devices were offered by Westchester Trading Post, Lyman, Conroy, Stoeger, and Buchanan, . Brophy's encyclopedic "The Springfield 1903 Rifles" shows at least nine different examples on pages 449-451. A truly addicted collector will want examples of all nine. I only have four, but I can quit any time I want to... John Spangler

# 1417 - Smith And Wesson Hand Ejector Model of 1905
9/1/98
James

I have a model 1905 Smith and Wesson .32 cal revolver,,,chambered for .32 Winchester (32/20) rounds, I'm wondering about its worth and collectibility, also I believe it was in the models third change and manufactured between 1909 -1910 Also was this manufactured for consumer sale or military use?,,,,,thank you very much.

Answer:
James, The Smith and Wesson Hand Ejector Model of 1905 is a six shot revolver with fluted cylinder, they had five screw round or square butt frames, round but models came with hard rubber or wood grips, square but models came with checkered wood grips only. The Smith and Wesson Hand Ejector Model of 1905 was offered in regular or target configuration, with four, five, six, or six and one half inch barrels. I can find no information that would lead me to believe that this particular model (especially in 32/20) was ever procured by the US military, if your revolver is US military issue, it would probably have a lanyard ring, it should also have US markings and / or US inspectors stamps. Since you did not supply a serial number I can not verify which change you actually have. According to "The Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson" by Jim Supica and Richard Nahas, 20,499 Smith and Wesson Hand Ejector Models of 1905 Third change were manufactured between 1909 and 1915. Serial numbers for third change models range from 45201 to 65700. There is not much collector demand for these revolvers, I would estimate values for examples in 32/20 to be in the $65 to $175 range depending on condition... Marc

# 1414 - 1871 Unknown
9/1/98
Betty TN U.S.A.

K(?) Mod.71 stamped in Old English style letters St. DenisS.F.A.T. stamped on barrel in script 1881 1877 on rear of breech This is a single shot carbine, 2 banded w. saddle ring on rear band, sharply turned down bolt, 200-1000 meter ladder type rear sight, side mounted cleaning rod w. brass end & thread on other end. I am unsure as to what company produced this model, and the size cartridge this carbine would take. Any other info as to the history of this firearm would also be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
Betty- My initial reaction was it must be a carbine variant of the German 1871 Mauser, but the more I looked the dumber I got. The 2000 yard sight does not match anything I could find in that breed, and the side mounted cleaning rod is odd. St, Denis SFAT is another clue that I couldn't translate into anything. Send some pictures to John Spangler, Box 711282, Salt Lake City, UT 84171 and then I am pretty sure we can solve the mystery... John Spangler

# 1411 - Winchester M1917 Rifle
9/1/98
Dave, Fairbanks, Alaska

"W" marked early model "speculation" military rifle. I picked up an example of the "W" marked Winchester 1917 rifle you have commented on in the past. It is in good condition with a shiny bore and good headspace. The stock unfortunately has been cut down. Cartouches on the stock are "OEL" with "1919" below it in a box, and "H.H.S" with "XXA" (can't red first 2 letters)below it in a box. Do you recognize these? Do you know where Winchester started the serial # run on these early rifles? The barrel date is 7-17.

Answer:
Dave- Congratulations, the early Winchesters are hard to find. I assume it, like number 2106 in my collection has only the "W" on the receiver, not the full Winchester name. I think these started at one, and recollect seeing number 365 atone time. Sure would like to know highest number observed this way- I suspect it may be as high as 10,000, but might actually be much lower. According to Nick Ferris' excellent book "The Rock Island `03" the OEL 1919 cartouche is associated with overhaul work at Rock Island inspected by Ora E. Lindsay. I do not recognize the HHS marking, but San Antonio Arsenal used lengthy letter series starting or ending in SAA. I just discovered a M1917 stamped on the left side of the receiver with a tiny "S.A.A.-E" and matching large "S.A.A.- E" (with only the E in a box). Only time I have ever seen rework marks on the metal, and at first thought I had been snookered by import marks in a strange place... John Spangler

# 1504 - Rifle- G98/40
9/1/98
Frank Plymouth PA

I need a forend and lower band for a G98-40 I have tried Sarco, GPC and a bunch of places on the net to no avail, will consider a parts gun as long as it has what I need. Thank You

Answer:
Frank- You got a real problem! I once owned a G98/40 but got tired of it and sold it years ago. (Paid about $20 for it and thought I was getting rich when it sold for $35!). These rifles were slight modification of the Hungarian M35 Rifle. The biggest difference being the caliber and change from a single row magazine to a standard Mauser type double row. Magazine inletting will be easy to adapt on a Hungarian M35 stock if you want to use this on a G98/40. We just happen to have just such a buttstock complete with buttplate and the metal piece at the wrist where the butt, forend and action all fit together. Forend does not have band. Assorted small dings and a few medium. No handguard. $85.00 Got lots of other good stuff on our accessories and parts page. If we don't have it, you are welcome to use our free "wanted" page to look for all those treasures. John Spangler