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# 6906 - 88 Carbine
11/30/2004
Louie, green Bay, WI.

1892 VC Schilling SUHL - Carbine KAR 88 - 8MM - 24 - Blue - 708 -

All parts are stamped with a symbol and the number 708 Tell me anything about this weapon.

Answer:
The German Army adopted the Gewehr 88 in 1888, it was their first rifle chambered for a new smokeless cartridge. The new cartridge was rimless, 7.92 mm in diameter, and 57 mm in length. The Gewehr 88 was loaded by inserting a five round stripper clip into the magazine opening. When the last cartridge was chambered, the clip would drop out of the bottom of the rifle through an opening in the magazine bottom. The rifle was often called the "commission gewehr" because a commission designed it. Mauserwerke designed a much better rifle, the Gewehr 98, which was adopted in 1898 and with many modifications stayed in service in the German wheremacht until 1945. Most commission rifles were issued to second line troops. If you look closely at photos of German World War I soldiers, you'll probably notice commission rifles, especially among artilleryman, cooks, teamsters, guards, etc.

The carbine was a short version of the rifle which was made for cavalry use. Carbines are rare and highly sought after by serious German military collectors. If your carbine has all matching numbers, collector desirability and value are increased. Marc


# 6905 - M1917 Revolver Markings
11/30/2004
John / Chicago, IL

Smith and Wesson - 1917 - .45 ACP - 5.5 - Blue - 64823 -

us army on butt of grip..........united states property on the underside of barrel On the left side of the gun, near the top between the cylinder and the hammer there is a small design engraved on the weapon, it looks like a ball with feathers on it, on another model 1917 (model# 17907) I have it has a different design, a circle with a ''H'' in the middle with what looks like a ''C'' and a ''S'' interlaced within the circle. I would send you a pic but my camera is acting up. Any help would be great. I was told that those insignia's represent either where they were made or the outfit they were going to, but not for sure, that why I came to you guys. curry6915@aol.com

Answer:
John, the "ball with feathers" is probably a U.S. ordinance stamp, it is supposed to represent a burning bomb, the feathers are represent flames. The other stampings with letters are U.S. military inspector's marks, they are the initials of an officer who oversaw (via many subordinates) the production of the revolver. I suspect that your interlaced ''HCS'' is really "GHS" which stands for Colonel Gilbert H. Stewart who inspected Smith & Wesson M1917 .45 revolvers, Colt M1917 .45 revolvers and Colt M1911 .45 Pistols from 1915 to 1919. For more information about your revolvers history, try checking it's serial number against the serial number database at www. ArmsCollectors. com. Marc


# 10465 - U.S. Military Shotguns Used For Training
11/30/2004
Robert, Leesburg, TX

Blue -

Trying to located information on the use of shotguns to train WW2 USAAF pilots and flight crews. You have listed two of three TM's (#5062is one)which I ma will ing to purchase if they include information on the above training. Thanks for your help. Bob Cutler

Answer:
Bob- The manuals we have cover the technical aspect of maintaining the guns themselves, not their use in training the gunners. One of the best sources of info on military shotguns is the article by Eric Archer in the 1988 Gun Digest, and I think we may have a copy of that available on our books catalog page. There are also a number of advertisements in WW2 era publications (American Rifleman, etc) that show some of the training and touting the contributions of the advertiser to the war effort. These include gun makers, ammunition makers, and even Ray Ban sun glasses. I have never seen any details of the actual training program or lesson plans or anything. Basically it was aimed at teaching people to understand about trajectory, and the difficulty of hitting moving targets, such as attacking enemy fighters, or for AA gunners, any aerial target. Trap and skeet were sometimes used. Other times advanced training included firing from the back of moving vehicles, or using shotguns mounted on pintle type mounts with spade grips similar to .50 BMGs. Let us know if you find out a anything more. John Spangler


# 10462 - P + A Moll Percussion Long Rifle
11/27/2004
Dave, Knox, Pa.

P +A Moll - Percussion Long Rifle -

Signed 'P and A. Moll 1850 This old Pa. style long rifle showed up in an antique store here in western Pa. I'd classify it to be in good condition. It's quite crude compared to earlier 'Moll' firearms I've viewed pictures of. It has a patchbox, the wood is black from age/use, and is probably all original. The store is asking $2900.00 for it. I'd like to have the rifle, but I believe that's a bit high for it, don't you?

Answer:
Dave- Peter Moll was one of a number of family members over several generations working in Hellertown, PA. He lived 1799-1879, so that includes the percussion era, and he started work about 1820, towards the end of the flintlock era. I could not find a listing for P and A Moll, nor any Moll with a first name beginning in A, so I believe the "A" is simply Peter's middle initial. Without seeing the rifle it is hard to comment on the price, but I think the antique shop is rather optimistic on this one. I do not watch prices on Pennsylvania/Kentucky rifles very closely. But, from what little I do remember, that sort of price may be realistic for a really nice flintlock version with all the bells and whistles. Value for later percussion rifles, even signed by a recognized maker, seem to be maybe half that much, perhaps even less. However, fair market value is determined by a willing buyer and willing seller, so you are free to spend as much or little as you like, and they are free to ask as much or little as they like. John Spangler


# 10461 - Holland & Holland 7mm Magnum rifle
11/27/2004
Robert Klamath Falls OR

Make: Holland and Holland (?) - 7MM Magnum - 455 or 55 -

Right side of receiver, is marked ''Made in England'' and 7MM-Mag on the bottom of the receiver are the markings ''ZZ'' and ''57''. on the left side of the receiver a symbol(undecipherable) with ''RNP'' below it, and this is repeated on the bolt handle. The markings on the bolt handle have the same ''RNP'' and numbers either symbol 55 or 455 and is very hard to read. Was this weapon made by Holland and Holland or was it a ''knock off'' by Herters or other manufacturer ?

Answer:
Robert- If the Rolls Royce automobile included an optional gun rack behind the seat, it would be made to carry a Holland and Holland rifle. Their production is mostly on a special order custom fitted, your choice of (expensive) options basis. Delivery time is a couple of years, but those who can afford such items are patient as well as wealthy. Their bolt action rifles are often built on Mauser actions, and the "basic" level is the "Best Quality" with prices about the same as a nice used car. They also offer the "DeLuxe model" which features incredibly nice wood and lavish engraving, at prices that are beyond what your spouse or mine would let us spend on guns. Then BNP (British Nitro Proof) markings are standard British proof marks applied to the best quality guns, but also to all the lesser grade pieces. A number of American importers over the years have brought in English made bolt action rifles, most notably with the Parker-Hale or Whitworth names. Perhaps the Holland and Holland refers to the cartridge used (I don't pay much attention to modern whiz-bang dynamite powerful animal exploding cartridges, but maybe there is a 7mm H&H Magnum cartridge.) If the rifle is made by H&H I would expect their full name to be tastefully marked somewhere, and the quality of the workmanship and fit and finish would immediately jump out as QUALITY stuff. John Spangler


# 6902 - Type 3 Radom
11/27/2004
John - Park Ridge, Illinois

Radom - P35 - 9mm - ? - Don't Know - ? -

This 9mm semi automatic has machine markings and I've been told was manufactured near the end of WWII. It comes with a leather holster with a flap that latches and it holds an extra clip which I also have. Under the flap is the date 1944 and some letters are printed. What is the value of the gun & holster with extra clip? I inherited this and would like to sell it.

Answer:
John, it sounds like your Radom is what collectors call a type 3. Type 3 Radom pistols were manufactured towards the end of W.W.II, they have no takedown lever and usually a very thin, poor quality finish that shows a lot of machine marks. Values for type 3 Radom pistols can range from about $200.00 to over $400.00 depending on condition. If the holster is military issue add $50.00 to $125.00, also depending on condition. If you want to sell your Radom, send us an e-mail, it sounds like something we could use. Marc


# 6900 - Lonni And Gretha PP
11/23/2004
Derrick, New Port Richey, FL

Walther - PP - 7.65 - Blue - 162542 -

It has Lonni engraved on the left side and Gretha engraved on the right side of the slide. Can you give me any origin on the engravings? I got this gun from my grandfather when he passed away. He was in the airforce. I don't know what years. It is in pretty rough shape, although it is in good mechanical shape. What could it be worth?

Answer:
Derrick, there is no way for me to divine the origin of the names on your Grandfathers pistol. Possibly a previous owners sisters? Pet cocker spaniels? Wife and ex-wife? Both wifes (if a truck driver)? Favorite burlesque show dancers? Who knows? Perhaps it would have been better to contact one of those psychic hot lines instead of OldGuns.net. I can tell you that the engraved names and the poor condition that the pistol is in will drastically lower it's value. I would expect to see a pistol like the one you described sell in the $75.00 or less range. Marc


# 6896 - Mossberg 146 (A or B?)
11/23/2004
Thomas, Erie, PA

Mossberg - 146 - 22 S-LR - 23'' - Blue - B-A -

Comes with target peep sight and Weaver 22 Tipoff 3/4 scope hooded front sight with 4 different sight posts that rotate so you can use either one. When was it made? Are they common?

Answer:
Thomas, Mossberg manufactured their model 146B from 1949 to 1954 and their model 146A from 1954 to 1958. The 146B was a .22 caliber tube fed, bolt action rifle with adjustable trigger, ramp front sight, and aperture rear sight. The Monte Carlo stock was walnut with cheekpiece, swivels, and Schnabel forend. Overall length was 43 and 1/4 inches and weight was 7 pounds. The model 146A was similar to the Model 146B, but had a different barrel and sights.

During the 50s and 60s, Mossberg seems to have manufactured a lot of racy looking .22 target type rifles with various fancy bells and whistles. Although they look exotic and expensive, none have very much collector interest, I often seen them at pawn shops and gunshows for under $100.00. Marc


# 10449 - French Sword "Vive Le Roi et ses Chasseurs"
11/23/2004
KEN Hollywood SC

Markings: I have a sword that my father got out of a German locker during WW2. Its a French Sword with a lions head for handle and some sort of red stones for eyes. Inscribed on it in script is ''VIVE LE ROI ET SES CHUSSEURS. The translation as best I can tell is VIVACIOUS THE KING AND HIS HUNTERS. I think its from the Prussian/Franco war. Can you add any information or tell me where to search?

Answer:
Ken- I believe the inscription would more properly translate to "Long live the king and his Chasseurs". Webster's dictionary defines Chasseur as a noun meaning (in a miltiary context) "one of a body of light troops, cavalry or infantry, trained for rapid maneuvers." In a more general context it means "An attendant upon persons of rank or wealth, wearing a plume and sword." We have links on our page (or maybe on our other site http://ArmsCollectors.com) to several sites that specialize in swords that may help identify the model. I suspect that this may be some sort of unit that was either a Royal bodyguard type, or perhaps a more conventional military unit with a history that traced back to guarding royalty in the past. Of course, with French egos as inflated as they are, I am sure that the Royal Chamber Pot Scrubber thought they should have a military escort as well. (We Americans escorted the Frogs pretty damn generously 1914-1918 and 1939-45 and that is the reason they do not speak German today, but the ungrateful snobs seem to have forgotten that. I wish I knew some other French words,,,,,,) John Spangler


# 10448 - EIG Pistol
11/20/2004
Anne. Cambs UK

EIG (East India Gun Co.) - 8'' Cavalry Belt Percussion Cap Pistol - .5 Or .6 - 8 Inch - Stainless Steel - NOT FOUND -

Markings: British ordinance marks (crowsfoot), faint proof marks and what looks like a number 11 over a number 13. Outside of lock also marked with E.I.G. and a rampant lion. Question: Hello folks! Basically this pistol is my first foray into the world of antique weaponry. I have managed to remove the whole of the percussion cap lock and on the inside are some additional marks. The number 11 over 13 appears again, along with the letters 'JD' on the left hand side and a name, 'T.Penrice' over on the right. Can anyone tell me who T.Penrice is or was? The exterior of the lock is marked for the East India Gun Company so I can't understand why another name is on the inside?? Any thoughts greatly appreciated! Thanks Anne

Answer:
Anne- Welcome to the world of Arms collecting. You have taken on the responsibility of preserving irreplaceable material artifacts of history. To some this is a burden, to others it is a joy. As we learn more about the past we can better understand the present day events from the perspective of history.

Prior to the adoption of machine made interchangeable parts (sometimes called the "American system of manufacture"), guns could be made by a single maker who would make all the parts, perhaps with the help of a few assistants. Alternatively, several craftsmen would each specialize in making a single type of part. In England, the preference seemed to be the latter, and some men would make locks, others would make barrels, some would cast brass buttplates and trigger guards, and others would make stocks, installilng the parts gathered from each of the other specialists. Usually the final assembly was done under the supervision of a gunmaker who would assume responsibility for the finished product. They would also take care of paying the suppliers, getting contracts from buyers, and make some money in the process. Thus the gunmaker's name (or when specified by the contract other marks to identify the gun as property of the Crown or the East India Company) would appear on the outside of the lock. However, to ensure that the person who made the lock got paid for his work (and blamed for any defects discovered later) their name would appear on the inside. Barrel makers signed their mark on the bottom or rear, and stockers would usually stamp it in the ramrod channel.

I cannot identify T. Penrice, but John and James Penrice were gunmakers in Darlaston, Staffordshire in the periods 1854-1879 and 1892-1900 respectively. It is possible that a father or grandfather had been in the lockmaking business sometime earlier. John Spangler


# 10447 - Winchester brass case No. 4
11/20/2004
Sean , Nappanee, In.

Winchester - Shell Casing -

Markings: No. 4 Question: I have a friend that doesn't have a computer ... Anyway, he gave me a shell casing, It measures approx. 30mm x 100mm, it seems to be a center fired casing with the word Winchester and I think it has a no. 4 also. My friend said his grandfather came about the casing in WW1 or WW2. I am a veteran of the U.S. Army, and have served in the Navy Reserves, and am currently serving in the Air Force Reserves, and the contacts that I have spoken to about the casing are suggesting that the round was either fired by tank or an air craft. I have seen the Military's 50 cal. but don't remember if the round looked that big. Can you possibly know what fired this round or find what fired this round ? Thank you for your time, and your site !

Answer:
Sean- Thank you for your multi-branch service to our country. Without seeing a photo of the case and knowing the exact markings, we can only guess. My initial guess would be that it is a 4 Gage shotgun shell. These are just a tiny bit over 1" at the mouth and about 4 inches long, pretty close to 30mmx100mm. The markings you describe would be similar to those used on other Winchester shotshells, but apparently Winchester did not make any all brass 4 GA shells, only those with brass heads and paper walls. My second next guess would be that it is a 37x93mm Hotchkiss case. These were widely used by several countries, and Winchester did make a bunch of those, and we see them fairly often. Again the length is about right, but the diameter is a bit larger. These are sometimes called (and marked) "1 pounder." John Spangler


# 6887 - Stevens 425
11/20/2004
Elizabeth Kelly WY

Stevens Arms Tool Company - Lever Action - 30.30 - Don't Know - Don't Know - DON'T KNOW -

Stevens Arms Tool Company 425 Stevens high power Pat. March 15.29. 1910 Chicopee Falls Ma.U.S. A. 4011 stamped on rifle in two places curved checkered butt plate Would this rifle be of interest to antique gun collectors and what is its value and age?

Answer:
Elizabeth, it sounds like you have a Stevens Model 425. The 425 was originally designed by John Redfield, it had a 22 inch round barrel with 2/3 length magazine tube, side ejection port, blue finish and plain walnut stock and forearm. Stevens offered the 425 in .25, .30, .32, and .35 calibres and they sold approximately 26,000 between 1910 when the model was introduced and 1917 when production ceased. There is some collector interest in this model, the blue book lists values between $295.00 and $650.00 depending on condition and caliber. Marc


# 6878 - Plated Radom Pistol
11/16/2004
John, Albany, NY

FB Radom - 35 VIS - 9mm - Don't Know -

My wife and I recently inherited a Radom 35 VIS from my father-in-law, who passed away. It has been in his possession since World War II (we have documentation). It has no Nazi markings, a decocking mechanism, and red grips, which, according to my meager research, might point to this being a pre-war piece. Here is the mystery. It appears to have been plated, and not blued, like most of the pictures that I have seen on the Internet. My father-in-law was not a flashy person, did not collect guns as a hobby, and led a very simple life. He was not the type of person to have this done, which leads me to believe that perhaps the plating was part of the original manufacture. Is this possible? While visiting perhaps hundreds of sites on the web, I did come across one reference stating that Radom 35's were presented to all Nazi officers who participated in the invasion of Poland. Is there a possibility that these pieces might have been plated for the occasion? Any light you might be able to shed on this would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
John, we get inquiries like yours about plated guns on a regular basis, they often say that the relative who brought the firearm home from the war was not the type of person who would have a nickel or chrome plated gun, so the finish has to be correct. Unfortunately the character of a previous owner is not enough to convince most collectors (including me) that a non-standard finish is correct and original. Your description does sound like you have a pre Nazi VIS P-35 (Radom) pistol, these are uncommon and more valuable than their later Nazi marked counterparts. I have never seen any records or information to indicate that VIS P-35 pistols were ever originally plated or that any were plated pistols were presented to conquering Nazi officers. In my opinion, the plated finish is not original or correct and it will lower value to the $200.00 or less range. Marc


# 6876 - Average HS Model B
11/16/2004
Stephen, Camdenton, MO

HI-STANDARD - Model B - 22 LR - 6 Inches ? - Blue - 87954 -

I would really like to know the approximate age and value on this pistol. It is average condition.

Answer:
Stephen, records indicate that your pistol was manufactured in 1941. The High Standard Company started business in 1926 manufacturing gun barrel drills. In 1932, they purchased the tooling and equipment of the bankrupt Hartford Arms & Equipment Co. and started manufacturing Hartford design .22 caliber pistols under their own name as the High Standard Model A and the High Standard Model B.

The Model B had a fixed 4.5 or 6.75 inch light weight barrel, short slide, internal hammer, ten shot magazine, adjustable rear sights and hard rubber grips that have been observed both with and without the H.S. monogram. The safety catch was on the left rear of the frame, immediately behind the safety catch was another catch that was used to remove the slide. High Standard manufactured about 65,000 Model B pistols up to 1942 when Model B production ceased.

Collector interest and values for High Standard pistols peeked for several years after the company went out of business in January of 1984 but lately interest seems to have waned. I would estimate value for a High Standard Model B in average condition to be in the $200.00 range. Marc


# 10446 - MP-40
11/16/2004
Scott

MP-40 - 32.75 Inches With Stock Extended -

Markings: What appears to be a skull & two lightning bolts under the barrel. An Eagle w/ Swastika is stamped above where the 32 round clip slides in. Question: What does the skull & duel lightning bolts on my MP-40 mean? It was my grandfathers, all I know is he was in the Army in WWII & he brought it back as a war trophy. I know the Eagle & Swastika represents Nazi, as he fought something he called Hitlerjudgend. He passed away recently and I have been un-able to ask him. Thanks, Scott

Answer:
Scott, German arms marked with a skull and lightning bolts (usually calls "runes") representing the letters "SS" were used by the "SS.". These were elite units of politically correct troops with great personal loyalty to the fanatical German leader, and were often involved in atrocities and other unsavory acts. Many collectors of German memorabilia covet SS related items, and SS stuff usually commands much higher prices. (I guess that is not perversion, but sort of like folks who collect Jesse James stuff instead of the Sheriff's guns.) The MP-40 (Machine pistol or submachine gun adopted in 1940) was an excellent design and is highly prized by collectors. However, like any other machine gun it is subject to strict control by the BATF, and they must be properly registered in order for anyone to possess one. There was an amnesty period for registration in 1968 and hopefully you have the paperwork showing it was registered then. Sometimes owners have prior correspondence from the Alcohol Tax Unit, the predecessor of the BATF which can prove it is legally owned, but that is a very complicated area. If a legal owner dies, it is no big deal to get it transferred to the heir(s), but you must take care of some paperwork as soon as possible. Properly registered, I think this would probably bring over $10,000 on the collector market. Without the paperwork, the BATF could make your life so miserable you may wish that the SS came calling instead. Reportedly the BATF registration records are a real mess, and even stuff that was registered sometimes cannot be found and it takes a court case to keep them from throwing you in jail even though it is their paperwork that is messed up. Do some research on "class 3 transfers" and talk to a lawyer who specializes in machine gun law to figure out what you have, and what (if anything) can be done to legally keep this neat toy. If it is not registered, then I understand your choices are very limited- donate it to a museum, turn it over to BATF for destruction, or strip some of the legal parts and turn the "bad" part in to be destroyed. Don't take my word on it, but check with people who know the rules. John Spangler


# 10445 - Revolutionary War Use Of 3rd Model Brown Bess
11/13/2004

India Pattern 3rd Model Brown Bess -

Question: I have read in Flaydermans Antique gun book that some 3rd Pattern Brown bess models have been found at revolutionary war sites although the model was not fully adapted by the British military until the 1790s.The type was made for the British East India Company in the 1760s but now it appears some may have been purchased and used in that conflict. Can you verify this for me. I have such a firearm and would be interested to know if it may have been used in that war. Thank you.

Answer:
Sir- Flayderman and his associates are the top experts in the field, and his mention of archeological recovery of examples of Third model (India Pattern) Brown Bess muskets from Revolutionary War sites is convincing enough for me. I am not certain as to what reference might have further information about this, but it would be interesting to find out. While you and I may have India Pattern muskets in our collections, and accurately claim that they represent a type used in the Revolution, probably few of the India Pattern muskets have survived that were actually used then, and most are of post 1783 manufacture. We must remember that after a brief intermission the Brits and French resumed their fighting, and the "latest pattern" arms left over from the last war were probably among the first issued, seeing the longest and hardest use in the field in the Napoleanic wars. If we want a gun more likely to have been actually carried in the Revolution, then we should look for s Second (or even First) model Brown Bess. John Spangler


# 10444 - Belgian Dueling Pistols
11/13/2004
Judy

I just received a matched pair of dueling pistols (ornate fluted grips) (walnut?), highly decorated and silver butts in fitted case with tools and silver powder flask dated late 1820-Circa (cap locks). Proof mark Leige-Belgium. Both pistols have octagon shaped barrels. (50 cal?) Workman ship is excellent and both pistols are in perfect working order. Trigger guard engraved with sitting or reclining back (hind) side of pistol engraved with hunting dog pointing a bird. The left side of barrel near hammer is marked with symbol E.L.G. Pistols are marked one with a #3 and the other one #4. Pistol 4 is same as pistol 3 except for a heavy mark on side of barrel (deep grooved stamp--looks like a key, barrel also stamped E.L.G. Powder flask is a beautiful working piece. Name on stern flask reads Bocre A of Paris. How can I find out who made these pistols and who they were made for? Any information would be helpful. Also what are they worth.

Answer:
Judy- They sound like a very nice set, but I think you will be able to find out very little about the maker, and probably nothing about previous owners. The ELG markings are Belgian proof marks, and unlike English makers, few Belgian seemed to sign their work. As far as value, I can only guess, but Belgian guns seem to bring a lot less than comparable English or French pieces. A wild guess would be a retail value in the $1000-1800 retail range. John Spangler


# 10771 - H & R 96
11/13/2004
Craig

H & R - 926 - .22 - Blue - AE38605 -

When I turned 21 my mom gave me one of my grandfathers pistols, it is the gun listed above. I'm not interested in selling it or anything but I would like to know when it was produced and what time frame he might have bought it in, also the current market value.

Answer:
Craig, H&R manufactured the Model 926 from 1968 to 1982. The revolver in .22 caliber was a 9 shot model with 4 inch barrel, walnut grips, adjustable rear sight and break open action. Blue book values for this model range from $50 to around $140. Marc


# 10727 - Fake Jungle Carbine
11/9/2004
Jenifer, Panama City, FL

Santa Fe Jungle Carbine MK1 - 12011 - 303 - 20'' - Blue - J90924 -

My husband has an MK1 made in 1918 by Golden State Arms Corp. We have been informed there were only 38 of these made. Could you provide any further information including value?

Answer:
Jenifer, I am afraid that you have been given some bad information, no authentic Jungle Carbines were ever manufactured by Golden State Arms. The Jungle Carbine's official name is the rifle, Mark V. Carbines were manufactured in various British arsenals for the British Army late in World War II. All Jungle Carbines that I have seen have been marked on the left side as Mk V, with a year of manufacture starting in 1944. Because of its short barrel with attached flash hider the Jungle Carbine has attracted collectors interest, they typically sell for more than standard British service rifles. Golden State may have modified some standard rifles to look like Jungle Carbines, this would have occurred in the 1950's or later, not in 1918. Value for fake Jungle Carbines is usually in the $200 or less range. Marc


# 10768 - Dad's 722
11/9/2004
Diane, Brookeville, MD

Remington - 722 - .257 Roberts - Don't Know - 206XXX -

Markings on the barrel include a sideways diamond, a clover, ''R.E.P.'' within an oval on one side. Then it has a small ''EXX'' with a raised O near it on the other. ''Remington Arms Co. Inc., Ilion, NY, Made in U.S.A.'' and ''.257 Roberts'', and ''Remington Model 722'' are on the same side. I believe it is a C-stock or ''pistol grip'', has a Weaver scope, and says Remington on the Butt Plate. This was my father's gun and I am trying to decide whether to keep it or sell it. I am not sure what sentimental value it had for him. It could have been from his father (fought in WWII) or perhaps one my father used in Vietnam. Any history on this would be helpful. Thanks.

Answer:
Diane, ''EXX'' is a Remington date code, it tells me that your rifle was manufactured in October of 1951. Remington manufactured the 722 from about 1948 to about 1962. The 722 was a sporting rifle, not a U.S. Military issue firearm, so it would not have been used by your father in Vietnam or by your Grandfather in WWII. If you decide to sell, blue book values for this model are in the $200 to $350 range. Marc


# 10688 - Making Or Converting Machine Guns
11/9/2004

I remember an old magazine advertisement that offered "Authentic Thompson Submachine Guns (TSMG) ... perfectly safe ... barrel plugged and firing pin removed." Down the page a bit was an ad for a Thompson Submachine Gun Barrel "un-plugged". And, a couple more ads down the page ... Thompson Submachine Gun Firing Pins. I am interested in knowing the complexities / what would be involved to convert a legal semi-automatic AR-15 into its illegal fully automatic M-16 counterpart. Please don't misunderstand. I am NOT interested in doing so ... As a proponent of gun ownership and an opponent of any automatic weapon I am trying to refine my opinions about various gun laws and am merely curious to know if a somewhat knowledgeable gun owner could do it, and with what level of difficulty. If conversion is within the capabilities of a (?) normal gun aficionado, I'm going to have second thoughts about some gun control laws. Bottom line for me is ... like those old magazine ads ... are AR-15's just an ad or two away from becoming an M-16's?

Answer:
Dear confused- Those ads were way back in the late 1950s or early 1960s and much has changed since then. The TSMGs advertised then were deactivated in accordance with the applicable ATF (now BATFE) directives in effect at the time, and known as a "DEWAT" or a deactivated war trophy. Basically the chamber had to be plugged, the barrel welded to the receiver and the firing pin sealed up so it could not be shot, or easily returned to use as a weapon. The laws regarding those were later changed so that "DEWAT" guns are now handled the same as live machine guns with all the paperwork and registration requirements. Virtually any man made object can be restored, rebuilt, modified to an earlier or similar configuration, or copied if you have the right parts, tools and skill. Last week I had the pleasure of observing John M. Browning's handmade prototypes of the M1895 "Potato digger" machine gun and his M1917 water cooled machine gun, what became the M2 .50 caliber machine gun and the M1918 BAR. So, if a guy with a bit of imagination and some tools can make all of those from chunks of steel, what CAN or WILL stop someone bent on making or converting other guns to full auto? There are numerous historical books that detail the evolution of the Armalite rifles and their variations and show the difference between the models. A quick comparison of the military manuals and the civilian parts schematics will reveal differences. For heaven's sake, the BATFE even warns that it is illegal to have an AR-15 and certain M16 type parts, in case there is any doubt as to what parts are different. Anyone with the necessary skill and incentive can make a machine gun. Also, with a bit more work and a bit harder to find materials, they can build a really big bomb, even a nuclear weapon, using information available on the internet. They can also make nasty poisons, set elaborate traps, or learn how to sabotage everything from cars to bridges or airplanes. There are laws against all these evil deeds, and the good guys obey all the laws and the bad guys do not. Pass all the new laws against machine guns, bombs, etc you want and the same good guys will obey those too, and the same bad guys will ignore them. It seems we started out with just 10 laws that Moses brought down from the mountain, but politicians feel compelled to "so something" every time some evil, stupid or negligent person does something bad, and passing another law is the easiest thing for them to do. It is virtually unheard of for politicians to ask if any of the laws they already passed actually did anything good, and it was a brilliant stroke of genius that added the "sunset" provision to the assault weapons ban so that at least one worthless law was eventually eliminated.

I do no personally know (or care) what parts need to be changed, modified or added to an AR 15 to make it into full auto, but I do know that I cannot afford the fine or prison time one would get for violating the law. Of course, a number of full auto weapons are stolen out of the trunks of cop cars or FBI cars every year, allowing those with few mechanical skills to acquire machine guns as well. Full auto machine guns have been tightly controlled since the 1934 National Firearms Act, and tens of thousands are legally registered to private citizens. My understanding is that only once has a legally registered machine gun been used in a crime. That involved a police officer who decided that robbing a bank was an easier and better paying career than being a cop. "It's not the guns, it's the criminals, stupid!" John Spangler


# 10440 - Bureau Of Prohibition Guns
11/6/2004

Blue -

I've got two questions relating to the U.S. Bureau of Prohibition (1927 - 1933). In several texts about Agent Eliot Ness occurs a ''sawed-off shotgun'', which is used by Ness and his men for raids etc. What for make, model and caliber has that mysterious ''Bureau of Prohibition sawed-off shotgun''??? And my other question is, what was the standard sidearm for Prohibition Agents with the Treasury Dept.? Could it be a .38 Colt Police Positive? Thanks a lot! Best regards, K.-Heinz

Answer:
Sir- Prohibition is not a topic I know a lot about. I think I will sit down and drink a nice cold beer while I ponder the question, then ponder some more over a nice dinner with some good wine, and then maybe another drink afterwards will inspire me to research, or dull my senses so much that I don't care what I write. Thish is sumpthing that gun owners need to pay attentions to. The guverment tried to stop all the alcohol by making it illegal. Criminals (and thirsty, otherwise law abiding citizens) had no trouble importing or making all the alcohol they wanted. Those seeking to ban and confiscate all our guns to "make it safe for The Children" are as well intentioned, and misinformed and naive as Cary Nation running around chopping up bars. Prohibition does not work, and only provides a false sense of security, accomplishment, power or whatever motivates the loony tune fringe elements who think they can pass a few laws and guarantee good behavior by criminals who do not give a rip about any laws.

I must confess that I do not know what specific shotguns or handguns were used by the Bureau of Prohibition, or if that is even the correct name for Elliot Ness' and his cop cronies. Thomas Nelson's "Fighting Shotguns" illustrates dozens of examples of "sawed off shotguns" of the Prohibition era ranging from factory made guns to junk that Bubba butchered with his hacksaw. Police sidearms of the period tended to be some sort of .38 caliber revolver, usually a Colt or S&W. Perhaps someone has done some research and found old government archives that would include purchase records or inventories or something of the guns used by that agency, but I am not aware of it. Helmer's book "The Gun That Made the Twenties Roar" or Tracie Hill's superb "Thompson: the American Legend, The First Submachine Gun" would be good places to start and a check of their bibliographies may suggest sources that would answer your questions In fact, perhaps the FBI would have that information. John Spangler


# 10422 - 1903A4 Remington
11/6/2004
Bill Idaho

Remington - 1903-A4? - .30-06 - 21.75 - Blue -

I have a 1903-A4 I think, but after reading a couple of web sites I don't know. My rifle was made in 3-44. I read somewhere that all A4's were built in 1943? Also the serial number (I guess it is the serial number) is on right side of the receiver, I can read all 6 numbers even with the scope mount on it. The bolt is bent for a scope and my barrel is short. The barrel is 21 3/4 inches long and doesn't show any sign that there was a front sight.

Answer:
Bill- Sorry, we cannot really tell you much since you did not bother giving the full serial number, like we ask you to provide. You mention it has six digits, so we can guess 999,999 different numbers, but none of them would be on a M1903A4 because they all had 7 digit serial numbers. You say it is Remington, but now you are just getting me confused. My guess is that you have a M1903 with a WW2 era replacement barrel that has been converted to a deer rifle. If so it is trash. If really a M1903A4, even with a chopped off barrel, it is more like a treasure. John Spangler


# 10772 - Marlin 1894 Date And Info
11/6/2004
Steve, Tigard, Oregon

Marlin - 1894 - 32-20 - 26'' - Don't Know - 266107 -

Marlin Safety Marlin Fire Arms Co. New Haven, CT. USA Patented Oct. 11-1887 April 2-1889 August 1-1893 266107 My grandfather traded a team of horses for this gun, then gave it to my father, who has given it to me to someday give to my son. I'm looking for a few specifics on this gun, such as when it was manufactured, how many were made, etc. My searches suggest the gun was manufactured in 1903, but this date is somewhat confusing to me considering the dates on the gun. I sure would like to pass on correct information to my son, so he can pass to his son. Your help is greatly appreciated and I thank you for your help in advance. Steve

Answer:
Steve, you have a good rifle, glad that you want to keep it in your family and pass it down to your son. Marlin manufactured the Model 1894 from 1894 to 1934, rifles were available chambered in .25-20 WCF, .32-20 WCF, .38-40 WCF, or .44-40 WCF calibers. Receivers were case colored, the 24 inch barrels could be ordered either round or octagon and either straight or pistol grip type stocks were available.

You are correct about the date of manufacture, my references indicate that your rifle was manufactured in 1903. The patent dates on your barrel all fall before 1903 so they are not contradictory. Marc


# 10790 - Eddystone Sight Ears
11/2/2004
Garry, Eva, Alabama

U. S. Eddystone - M.1917 - 30.06 - Parkerized - 22XXX -

I recently purchased a m.1917 Eddystone. This rifle has a E 9-17 barrel. Unfortunately the sight ears have been broken off. Would this be a difficult or costly repair?

Answer:
Gary, It depends on if you are talking about the front site ears or rear site ears. The front sight would be a fairly easy repair to make. If the rear sight ears are gone, you have a good candidate for a sporter conversion. Marc


# 10752 - Sears Model 54
11/2/2004
Chris, Marienville, PA

Sears and Roebuck - Model 54 - 30/30 - Blue - 273.811 -

I have an opportunity to purchase a Sears and Roebuck Model 54 30/30 which is near perfect condition. I am slightly confused though. I understand that the Model 54 was a Winchester made rifle. From what I have read I am led to believe that the S&R Model 54 is a version of the Winchester Model 94. First off...Is this correct? Secondly...Using the Winchester 1894 (Mod 94) page on your website and entering the serial number from this Model 54 I am told that this rifle's DOM is 1894. Being that it is a listing for Winchester Mod 94's...is this date correct? If so...Can you give me an idea of what the rough value of this rifle should be? Any info at all would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
Chris, references indicate that you are partially correct, the Sears Model 54 was Winchester's Model 94. I am not sure whether Winchester numbered rifles that they made for Sears in the same series as rifles that were sold under their own name but I am able to determine why you are getting confusing information from the OldGuns.net serial number program. The number that you provided "273.811" is not the rifles serial number, it is another Sears model number. If you enter "54" into the OldGuns.net house brands lookup program, you will be given the following information "Sears 54 Model 273.811 is the Winchester model NM 94". The rifle's serial number should be stamped on the bottom - front of the receiver just behind the forend wood.

I would advise you to not purchase a house brand rifle, while it may be in excellent condition, there is no collector interest in these firearms. Values for them are always lower than they are for their counterparts that carry the original manufactures brand name. I would expect to see a rifle like you are describing being offered for sale at a gunshow in the $175 or less range. Marc


# 10397 - Remington Rand M1911A1 Records
11/2/2004
Frank, Silver Spring, MD

Remington Rand - WWI Semi-auto - .45 - Blue -

Do any shipment records exist for the Remington-Rand WWII cal 45 pistols ? Thanks

Answer:
Frank- As fas as we know, no shipping records from Remington Rand have survived. No details are listed in Chalres Clawson's superb (but inexplicably out of print) and definitive study "Colt .45 Service Pistols." Odds and ends of histories of individual pistols have been found in the National Archive by Springfield Research Service, and can be searched at our other site http://www.armscollectors.com/srs.htm John Spangler


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