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# 6586 - Ammunition Spam Can Question
5/29/2004
Jason, Costa Mesa

.30 - Other -

olive green can ,handle on top,..with the spam opener tool attached I Have A Unopened Spam can with markings 192 cartridges cal.30 Ball M2 8Rd clips Bandoleers Lot C C 39557 ... Is This Worth anything ? Please give me the history Lesson on these shells, From the lot # , Where are these from ?

Answer:
Jason- From about 1945 to the mid 1950s, U.S. small arms ammunition was shipped in "spam cans" packed in wooden boxes. Prior to that, they used, very large, heavy wooden boxes. More recently the ammo has been shipped in .30 or .50 caliber ammo cans packed four or two (respectively) in a wrapper consisting of thin wood strips bound with wire. The markings indicate that your ammunition was packed in clips at Lake City Arsenal (they have used Ammunition Plant or other terms, but they are all the same folks in Independence, MO.) I believe that the Army used one series of lot numbers for ammunition being manufactured, and another series for ammunition being packed in clips, as it was not unusual for one plant to repack ammo made by someone else, but assign a lot number with "C" in it to indicate where it was packed, not where it was made. For record keeping purposes, they know the original manufacturer lot number, and if there was a problem, they could still track it down and recall it using the "clipped" lot number. I do not have a list for "clipped" numbers, but LC lot numbers for M2 Ball loaded after April 1952 with numbers 13158 or higher are non-corrosive. (Therefore all M2 Ball headstamped LC 53 or later is non-corrosive, and all LC 51 or earlier is corrosive, but LC 52 may be either corrosive or not.). My guess is that it is probably corrosive ammo that got repacked, but unless you open it we will never know. Value is whatever you can get for it, maybe not much from a risk averse shooter, or a lot more from a collector with a fetish for ammo packing variations. John Spangler


# 6589 - Japanese Made Siamese Mauser
5/29/2004
Damon Vaughn, Raleigh, NC

Japanese For Thai (Siamese) - Type 46? - 8 X 52r - Ap 35-36'' - Don't Know - NONE? -

Has no letters I have on my keyboard and no numbers. From what I know my dad bought it 30 yrs ago, many. by the Japanese. Do you know any historical significance, collectability, is ammo still available for this gun, production #'s, any thing else you can tell me...your consideration is greatly appreciated.

Answer:
Damon- These were made in Japan at Koishikawa, Tokyo, under contract circa 1903-1902 and were originally designated the Model 1902 (or Type 45) rifle and were chambered for a 8x50mm rimmed cartridge with a round nose bullet. Starting in 1923 these rifles were modified for use of the 8x50mmR ammunition with a pointed bullet. The conversion was little more than reducing the height of the rear sight base to provide correct heights for the flatter trajectory. Those with the conversion are known as the "Type 66." Siamese Mausers were widely available in the 1960s but ammunition was not, and they became the basis for conversions to .45-70 caliber. The wood in the stocks is a porous wood similar to a low grade of mahogany, easily damaged. The damp Siamese climate resulted in much rust and left most rifles in wretched condition. The Siamese numbers are not something most of us can read, so we included a nifty table with numbers in many languages on our other site http://armscollectors.com/numbers.htm where you can decipher all those mysterious numbers.


# 9996 - Commemorative Carbine (ugh!)
5/29/2004
Ron Las Vegas, NV

Inland - M1 Carbine - 30 Cal - Blue - 716413 -

Metal plate on the butt of gun reading, And Victory Will Be Ours with a Golden eagle inside with Victory written across it. On the slide is written in gold World War11 50 anniversary M1Carbine, Gold plated sites and front sight. Barrel stamped 4-43 One the side of barrel WW11027 in gold. Can you give me an idea of worth, never shot and very definitely an Inland with General Motors Div and other markings in the right place. I would like to sell it for something that shoots, but if it is worth more than I can get for it, I will keep it. PLEASE HELP.........

Answer:
Ron, I have a very low opinion of the entire commemorative firearm concept. Although some commemoratives have pretty hefty book values, actually selling them for listed prices is about impossible, even for the few relatively scarce models. If your carbine is ever fired, if it does not have the original box and papers, or if it has even one small scratch or blemish, it has been my experience that it will sell very slowly (if at all) at a price far below original cost. Since I don't handle commemoratives, I don't have a good feel for what yours will sell for. My free advice (as always offered with a full money back guarantee) is to sell immediately and buy something more practical. Marc


# 10006 - 1893 Values
5/25/2004
Thomas Silver City NM

Marlin - 1893 - 32-40 - 26 Inches - Blue - 100531 -

Case hardening on receiver and octagon barrel half way up I am interested in the value of this firearm. It is in excellent condition.

Answer:
Thomas, Marlin Fire Arms Company of New Haven, Connecticut manufactured the Model 1893 from 1893 to 1936. In 1905 Marlin shortened the name from "1893" to "93". Available records indicate that your rifle was shipped in 1894.

The Model 1893 action was based on patents by Lewis Hepburn, it incorporated a new locking-bolt system, a two-piece firing pin and an improved elevator mechanism. Model 1893 rifles were originally offered in 32-40 and 38-55 calibers, later 25-36, .30-30, and .32 Special, became available. Receivers were case colored and offered in both solid frame and take-down versions. Both round and octagonal barrels were available. Total production was between 90,000-100,000 rifles. The blue book sets values for Model 1893 rifles in 95% condition at $2700. Value can go even higher for rifles in excellent condition with special features, and/or chambered in desirable calibers. Marc


# 10074 - Heym Identification
5/25/2004
Michael

Heym / Saint Hubert - ? - .300 Win Mag - 24 - Blue - 39833 -

The only markings on the rifle are "Saint Hubert Co." from Waseca, Minn. (maybe an importer for Heym?) they're no longer in business. On the underside front of the receiver is stamped "F.W. Heym" and "made in Germany". It in a .300 win mag caliber with a beautiful high cheekpiece French walnut stock, hand rubbed oil finish. Workmanship on the Mauser type action is excellent. 24 inch barrel. Serial number stamped on the underside of the receiver is 39833. Can you help me in identifying what model of Heym this is, when it was made and what it might be worth?

Answer:
Michael, Heym has been manufacturing classical Mauser type sporting rifles for many years. The company was first established in Suhl Germany in 1865. After WWII Heym moved operations from Suhl to the Bavarian town of Munnerstadt, were in 1952, the first post-war firearms were produced. In 1996 operations were moved again to Gleichamberg.

Early Heym post-war rifles were built on refurbished military actions, later actions were manufactured by FN. Heym also built modified rifles for Mauser (q.v.) before their SR-20 series was introduced in 1975.

Without seeing your rifle, it is difficult to determine what model you have. To try to narrow down the possibilities, I compared your rifles features with features listed for the various Heym models in the blue book. By making use of the process of elimination, my guess is that your rifle is a SR 20N. The SR 20N was Heym's original standard sporting rifle, it was built on right or left-hand Mauser type bolt actions. The model had a Monte Carlo half-stock with a rosewood pistol grip cap and a schnabel pattern forend tip. It was available in 18 calibers including .300 Winchester Magnum. Barrels were 24 or 25 inches in length and made of Krupp steel. One inconsistency that I noticed is that rifles chambered in magnum calibers should have 25-inch barrels. Possibly your measurement is incorrect, or I may have guessed the wrong model. Importation of SR 20N rifles was discontinued in 2001. The blue book lists values for SR 20N rifles from $650 to $2000, depending on condition. Marc


# 6593 - Rebarreled M1903 Springfield
5/25/2004
Albert ,Denham Springs, Louisiana

Springfield Armory - 1903 - 30.06 - 22 - Blue - 1001846 -

barrel has flames and below flames to the left a 6 a space the 42. this is on the top of the barrel below the front sight on the top. My serial number suggests this gun was manufactured in 1918, why does the barrel indicate June 1942? Was this re-barreled? Any information would be helpful, thanks.

Answer:
Albert- You are correct, your rifle was originally made in 1918, and the barrel in June 1942, so it is virtually certain that it got rebarreled at some time in its history. Remember, the Army is in the business of buying and maintaining guns so they can go kill people and break things, and if a barrel it bad, they replace it. The fact that some collectors might be unhappy 50 years later does not seem to have concerned them at all. John Spangler


# 10091 - Late War PP
5/22/2004
Jeff, Seville, Ohio

Walther PP ???????? - 7.65 - Stainless Steel -

I was given a gun to appraise by a friend but it is presenting a problem. The gun looks like a Walther PP but there are some differences, it could simply be a variation I have not yet seen. Here are the indicators I have noted so far: There is not a single marking to help determine the authenticity of this gun. It was loaded and the clip says Walther PP 7.65 m/m but the gun has no markings. Non matching serial numbers on frame and slide are the only markings on the gun. o Slide..391790 with a low P at end of # and AC below serial number o Frame..3914886 with the low P again It has a bad non blued finish, and poor machining It has a lanyard ring on the bottom of the grip There is a slight difference in this gun as opposed to any other Walther I have seen. It is at the drift pin at the back of the trigger guard. In all pictures and on all Walthers I have seen, the frame is stepped down at the point where the drift pin is inserted, this one is not. It has clear pistol grips that I assume were hand made. This is interesting because you can always tell the status of the clip. Any help would be appreciated!

Answer:
Jeff, an interesting pistol. The tip off to the identity of the maker are the letters ac and the mismatched serial number at the very end of the known range of manufacture of Walther PPs. The U. S. military unit that captured the Walther plant had a number of Walther pistols assembled for their use. The stories vary, some claiming the GI's did the assembly, others that they ordered the workers to keep assembling pistols from parts, others claiming that the workers did it on their own and sold them for cigarettes and army food. Whatever happened many GIs brought back mismatched Walther pistols. These pistols are often referred to as "GI bring back Walthers". The pistols have mismatched serial numbers, and are also missing the standard German proof and final inspection stamps. As you mentioned the machining is rough. This was typical of all German pistols of this era. The finish is also poor. When your pistol left the factory it probably had pressed wood or reddish grips. The clear grips are definitely a replacement. This type of clear grip is often seen on pistols that soldiers brought home from WWII, a common story is that they were made from Plexiglas from aircraft windows. While not as highly valued as an all correct, made for the German Army Walther PP, the GI bring backs are a collecting specialty in themselves. Marc


# 10092 - Sportized M1917
5/22/2004
Brent Boise, Idaho

Eddystone - 1917 - 30.06 - 5 Groove Original 6-18 - Blue - 513926 -

This rifle (still covered in sticky brown grease) has no bayonet mount and the stock is original but the wood does not cover top of barrel and is shorter and more of a sport look to it. The man who owned it bought it as a mommento of his Cavalry service in the early thirties. does the lack of bayonet mount and stock difference mean it was meant for a horse scabbard? What is it worth? Thanks.

Answer:
Brent, the rifle you describe is a U.S. Model 1917, these are often called Enfields because it was a British design. There was no shortened cavalry version of the M1917. A former owner probably decided to modify the rifle to his taste. One common modification was to remove the front barrel band/bayonet lug, rear barrel band, and the rear handguard ring. The stock was then cut off, and you had a "sporter", and were ready for the next deer hunt. (Some of the metal parts were often cut off including the metal protecting the front and rear sight. All correct Eddystone M1917's are selling in the $400 to $600 range (see our for sale page for examples), while sportized M1917's like yours often sell from $50 to $200. Marc


# 6596 - Montlucon Double Barrel Flintlock
5/22/2004
Steve, South Australia

Montlucon - Double Barrel Flint Lock - Unknown - Sawn Off - Other -

Percuss.montlucon.1792 lion on base of but. gun barrel metal Looks original. Any ideas as to where it was made and by who? has written on it ''Percuss.montlucon.1792.''

Answer:
Steve- Sorry, the best we can figure out, Montlucon is the location of the maker. The only makers I can find for that area are Gorce, Guy Gourgouliat, and Rouffet. John Spangler


# 10100 - M1 Replacement Stock
5/18/2004
Stuart Dover AR

Springfield Armory - M1 Garand - 30.06 - Blue - 1041369 -

none My rifle has the original stock. The other two parts are made of different wood. The stock is not Walnut. I would like to know what other kinds of wood Springfield Armory used. It was made late 1942 to early 1943. The Stock is light colored.

Answer:
Stuart, it's hard to judge without seeing the wood, but I would guess you have a birch replacement stock. The U.S. used birch stocks as replacements in the 1950's. When your rifle left Springfield Armory it had a walnut stock. You mentioned that the metal finish was blued. If this is so then your rifle has been refinished after it left military service. All M1's left the factory with a parkerized finish. Marc


# 10102 - Unusual Walther PP
5/18/2004
Mark, Houston, TX

Walther - PP - 7.65mm - the longer version - Blue - 920281 -

The pistol has the n and crown markings on the receiver, the barrel and the slide. On the left side of the frame the numbers 65 is stamped right behind the trigger and below the magazine release. The left side of the slide is marked ''Waffenfabrik Walther, Zella-Mehlis(Thur) Mod PP'' and ''Walther's Patent Cal 7.65 m/m''. The pistol also has the chambered round indicator pin and a 90 safety. There seems to be a vast array of info on pistol's similar to this one. Some of that information conflicts. What I am wondering is whether this is, in fact, an 1929-1939 model and especially what the ''65'' of the left side of the frame means.

Answer:
Mark, I am unable to answer your primary question, I have not found any information on the "65" marking you asked about. Although I was unsuccessful in determining what the "65" marking is for, I can tell you a little about the pistol because of the unusual crown over "N" proof mark. Crown over "N" is a German proof that was set forth in the National Proof Law of 19 May 1891, which became effective 1 April 1893. The "N" was an abbreviation for Nitro, meaning smokeless powder.

All wartime PP pistols that I have encountered are marked with the later eagle over "N" proof. References indicate that PP pistols marked with crown over N proofs were procured for the NSKK which was the official transportation branch of the NSDAP. The NSKK's primary mission was to meet all transportation needs of the Nazi Party (NSDAP). At the outbreak of World War II, the NSKK assumed military transportation responsibilities. By 1943, almost all of the NSKK was on active service either with the Army or the Waffen SS. Jan Still's book, "Axis Pistols" reports that about 50 NSKK Walther PP's with crown over N proofs have been reported in the 812020 to 200733P serial range. If your pistol is NSKK issue, perhaps "65" is a NSKK group or district. I would suggest that you try posting a question on the appropriate forum at ArmsCollectors.com. One of the experts there may be able to be of more assistance. Marc


# 6613 - Unknown Percussion Rifle
5/18/2004
John, San Antonio, TX

Unknown - Unknown - 0.50 - 31 1/4 Inches - Rusty - NONE -

This rifle is believed to have been manufactured in the late 1800's by an unknown gunsmith. The overall length is 48 inches. Barrel length is 31 1/4 inches. The rifle metal trim including a ''fancy'' greatly curved trigger guard appears to be German silver with ornate engraving. There is an ornate patch box in the right side of the stock. The stock has a ''cheek rest'' on the left side that has an inlaid upside down German silver crescent. There are no markings on the rifle. The stock butt plate is highly curved and is of German silver. The single barrel rifle has a dual trigger lock with an external hammer and percussion cap nipple. The barrel has two silver stripes across the exposed top flat of the hexagonal barrel. The width of the larger stripe is approximately 1/16 inch and the smaller 1/32 inch. The barrel is approximately 1 inch thick measured across the flats. Caliber measures approximately 0.5 inches. There is a wooden ram rod and the stock extends along the bottom of the barrel to the muzzle. How do I go about identifying this rifle? Should I send someone pictures?

Answer:
John- We appreciate your excellent description. Based on that I would think that this is from the period 1850-1870. With no markings, there is not much more than we can tell you with or without photos. John Spangler


# 10105 - Another Commemorate Question
5/15/2004
Peggy Paragould AR

Winchester - 30/30 - 26'' - Blue - WC 15184 -

Buffalo Bill Commemorative Octagon Barrel How Old and worth

Answer:
Peggy, if you would searched previous answers before submitting your question (as per instructions), you would have found that John and I have never had much use for commemoratives. Some commemorative production has reached well over 250,000 and this has lowered demand. Although some commemorates have pretty hefty book values, actually selling them for book prices is usually almost impossible, even for the few relatively scarce models.

Winchester manufactured the Buffalo Bill commemorative in 1968, total production was 112,923. Blue book value for this model is around $900 if the gun is in flat new, unfired condition and you have the original box and all of the papers that originally came with it. If your rifle is not unfired and in new condition, the value will be significantly lower. Even light freckling created by touching the metal surfaces can reduce value. A fired gun with obvious wear or without its original packaging can lose as much as 50% of its value. Many used commemorates get sold as fancy shooters with little, if any, premium being asked. Marc


# 10147 - Sporterized Mosin Nagant
5/15/2004
Butchie

New England Westinghouse Company - 1915 - 30.06 - approximately 20 in. - Blue -

Many different letters on different parts of the rifle. From what I can understand, these are stamped from the people who worked assembling the guns in the factories they were assembled. I own a 30.06 New England Westinghouse Company Rifle. It's a very accurate rifle and I would like to know what you can tell me as far as the value, where I can locate parts, and why I have only seen one like this.

Answer:
You have an interesting gun, it began life as a Model 1891 rifle, made by New England Westinghouse, for the Russian Czar, Nicholas II. This model was commonly referred to as the Mosin Nagant after it's two designers. It fired the standard Russian service ammunition, a rimmed cartridge of 7.62 mm diameter and 54 mm length.

The Russian Revolution in October 1917 ended deliveries of U.S. made arms to Russia. Some Mosin Nagant rifles that were still in the U.S.A. after the revolution were sold to the U.S. government and issued to U.S. troops. These rifles have U.S. markings on them and are eagerly sought after by collectors. Many other leftover Mosin Nagants were sold in the U.S.A. as surplus after World War I. Some enterprising dealers had them re-chambered to 30-06 to increase sales. Most experts warn against ever shooting the Model 1891 in 30-06, claiming that some conversions caused the shooter bodily harm.

The U.S. marked New England Westinghouse Model 1891 is a highly desirable collector's rifle with some examples listed on internet sites with asking prices up to $500. Unfortunately, your rifle is not in original condition, the 20 inch barrel you mention, tells me that the barrel has been shortened. The barrel modification has destroyed all value for collectors. Too bad. Marc


# 6620 - Restore Krag Carbine?
5/15/2004
Dan, Livermore, CA

Springfield Armory - 1899 - 30 - 22'' - Blue - 356388 -

Cartouche ''JSA 1901''; letter ''M'' stamped behind trigger guard; another indecipherable circle stamp behind trigger guard. I have inherited what I believe to be a Krag Carbine in excellent condition. However, the original rear sight has been removed and a peep sight added directly above the bolt. Is this a true carbine? Does the removal of the sight seriously affect the value?

Answer:
Dan- Since you indicated it is Model 1899 (and presumably marked MODEL 1899 on the receiver, not MODEL 1898) it would have been made as a carbine. Although there is no documented history on that serial number, it falls in a long series of Model 1899 carbines, so we are pretty sure it is a real carbine, not a cut down rifle. Krag sporting sights have been made in many styles. Some required no alterations, only removal of the cutoff and replacement with the sight; others required minor changes to the side plate and/or sideplate screw, and perhaps a bit of alteration tot he wood on that side. Some required drilling and tapping the receiver. If there was no drilling or wood alteration required, then this would be a good restoration candidate, although finding the proper "C" marked rear sight and a handguard that will be correct for whatever style sight you find can take a lot of time and money. If the gun has been boogered by the sporting sight, it may be best to just use it as a shooter (assuming a competent gunsmith says it is safe) or trade it in on a collector grade carbine. John Spangler


# 10109 - Where Can I Find A Mod. 290?
5/11/2004
Scott St. Louis MI

Winchester - 290 Deluxe - 22 - Blue -

I would like to know if you know where I could find a Winchester model 290 deluxe? Also did they make these deluxe rifles in 22 magnums? MY father has the 290 deluxe in 22 long rifle and told me when he purchased his there were a few other deluxes to choose from. Any idea where I can find any?

Answer:
Scott, the Winchester Model 290 was a deluxe version of the Model 190. Total production of 190 and 290 rifles is reported to have been over 2 million.

I have found conflicting information about the type of wood that this rifle came equipped with. One account is that the 290 came with impressed (not cut) checkering and select hardwood (not walnut) Monte Carlo stock and forend that were stained to mimic walnut. Another account says that stocks were walnut with a fluted Monte Carlo comb, and machine-cut basket-weave checkering. In either case, white plastic spacer plates between the wood and the pistol grip cap and buttplate and the checkering were said to have been added staring in 1966. Rifles that were manufactured before 1965 sometimes were equipped with an optional Cycolac forend.

Model 190 and 290 rifles were chambered for .22 Long and .22 Long Rifle rimfire ammunition interchangeably. I can find no information to indicate that this model was ever chambered in .22 Magnum.

Winchester manufactured the 290 from 1965 to 1973. The model has not been manufactured for over 30 years so you will probably find it difficult to locate one that is being offered for sale. I would suggest that you should keep an eye out at local pawnshops and gunshows. Good luck. Marc


# 10113 - Collectible CZ
5/11/2004
Patrick Apache Junction, AZ.

CZ - ? - 32 - ? - Blue - ? -

Very small stamp into the barrel of a German eagle, same stamp on leather holster along with a date stamp 1941 I was wondering what the value & or collectability of this gun is. My Dad got it in Germany during WW2.

Answer:
Patrick, a more detailed description of the markings on your pistol would have been helpful but I suspect that you have a CZ Model 27. The CZ 27 was adopted by the Czechoslovakian armed forces in 1927. On 1 October 1938, German forces entered the Sudetenland of Czechoslovakia that later became a part of the German IV, VIII, XIII, and XVII Army Corps areas. The CZ factory was seized and production of the model 1927 pistol commenced under German supervision. Approximately 475,000 pistols were procured by the Heereswaffenamt before hostilities in Europe ended on 8 May 1945. The German name for the CZ factory was Boehmische Waffenfabrik A.G. (Bohemian Weapons Factory Inc.), and the German designation for the pistol was Pistole Modell 27. All German WWII military firearms are collectable but some are more desirable than others. Values for Nazi proofed CZ 27 pistols range from $150 to about $450 depending on condition. If the holster is military issue, it will add another $100 to $150. Marc


# 6630 - Colt Paterson (Patterson) Revolver
5/11/2004
Roy ,Broken Arrow ,Oklahoma

1836 - Paterson - 36 - 7 And Halve Inches - Other - NONE TO BE FOUND -

No special marks, Has 1836 colt stamped on the cylinder with scroll work on the barrel and the cylinder and on the pistol itself The pistol has been well shot, have ask around and cant get any answers about this gun, have read up on it, have been offered money for it, who would you suggest in my area to look at it and give me some straight answers. I would appreciate any help.

Answer:
Roy- Colt's earliest production took place in Paterson, New Jersey (often misspelled Patterson). Those guns are highly desirable collector items with prices in the five figure range. However, a many replicas have been made and some very convincing fakes as well. Anyone contemplating buying a gun in that price range would be well advised to either know an awful lot about them, or work with a reputable dealer who knows about them (and is ethical and willing to stand behind their assessment as to its originality.) A seller would be wise to take a similar approach. Most of the replicas are fairly easy to spot, and if you wanted to send some good photos, I would be happy to see what I can learn from a local collector who is an expert on these. While that may not be the final authentication you need, it may distinguish between an aged replica and a potentially authentic item that would be worth a more detailed, hands on inspection. He would also know who to recommend, or I would be comfortable recommending that individual as reputable to deal with. Hope it turns out to be a treasure, but don't be too eager to spend your lottery winnings until the numbers are called. John Spangler


# 6536 - Galesi Model 6
5/8/2004
Corey, Normal, Illinois

Galesi - Model 6? - .25 - short - Nickel - 015162 -

Left side of slide - FLORIDA FIREARMS CORP. - MIAMI, Fla Right side of slide - ''AG'' Galesi - Made in Italy - 25 cal I'm curious to find out the date of manufacture for this firearm and any other bit of history you may know pertaining to the ''Florida Firearms Corp.'' Thank you very much, Corey

Answer:
Corey, all that I can tell you about the date of manufacture of your pistol is that the Galesi company of Brescia, Italy began manufacturing firearms in 1914 and production of the Model 6 began in 1930. The Model 6 was based on the design of the Browning Model 1910, it was a striker fired pistol with concentric recoil spring, no grip safety and only a groove on the top of the slide for sighting. At first the Model 6 was only available in 6.35mm or 7.65mm calibres but in 1936, a .380 version was offered which is rumored to have been adopted in small numbers as a substitute standard pistol for the Italian armed forces. I was unable to find any information about Florida Firearms Corp., they were most likely the U.S. importer. Blue book values for Galesi Model 6 pistols is in the $60 to $130 range. Marc


# 6659 - M1 Garand National Match
5/8/2004
Vince, Kettering, Ohio

Springfield Armory - M1 Garand - 30-06 - GI - Parkerized - 780XXX -

NM on the op rod and on the front sight and rear base. Hooded rear ap. 4 groove barrel showing a 1 on the gauge. The barrel is a GI late barrel. I was sent this rifle about 15 years ago and I paid $72.50 from the DCM now the CMP. It came with he 4 groove barrel and the match sights and the hooded rear ap. The rifle has all of the correct parts and drawing numbers for the 42 year it was made in. The stock is marked correctly. Did I get something unusual? All of my friends think it is a fluke because even the wood is like brand new. They would have never went for it but I brought it to the range the next day after I received it. Even the trigger has been worked on. Should I start shooting it? Or put it away?

Answer:
Vince- Even if you had supplied the full serial number, there are no NM rifles documented in the 780xxx range, although there are scattered examples throughout most years of production. We will spare you the abuse we normally heap on the people afraid of black helicopters who want free info but are afraid to tell us the full serial number. Most of the time we just cuss a bit and delete their questions. We can only guess that your rifle MAY be a NM rifle, but maybe not. You say that it has a hooded aperture and NM marked front and rear sights and op rod, but you also say it has the correct drawing numbers for 1942, the year it was made. Since NO NM marked parts were made until about 1956, your description cannot be correct, or the reference you are using are totally unreliable, and if "the wood is marked correctly" for 1942, it would not be correct for ANY NM rifle, and vice versa. All U.S. government made M1 barrels were 4 groove, so that does not add much. A number of NM Garands were sold through DCM as regular service grade rifles, so it is possible that you did get very lucky. There are many minor details that will make a NM rifle identifiable from a service grade rifle, but they changed depending on the year it was converted to NM use, and many are very subtle. With the number of NM marked parts you mention, the barrel should also be marked NM, probably on the left side of the exposed portion near the front sight, or perhaps on the right side of the breech where the drawing numbers appear. Most likely it would have been glass bedded with a yellowing looking bedding compound. If you insist on shooting it, please make sure you use good quality non-corrosive ammo and clean it properly. I would retire it as a collector item, but would also recommend having a well informed Garand collector look at it. You may be able to find someone at a gun show who can help with a proper ID, but you are equally likely to run into self-proclaimed experts who know less than you do, so try to figure out how much they really know. John Spangler


# 6676 - Family Feud Over Big Gun Collection
5/8/2004
Jane, Grand Prairie, TX.

Other -

WW1 German Luger, Gattling Gun, British Infield, etc. I have a general question about these. My father passed away two years ago. Subsequently my mother came to live with me. They had lived down in Corpus Christi. All of their things were put into storage there where my adopted sister still resides. Father had several very old firearms. I saw them a time or two through the years but never was interested in them. I can't remember now exactly when I thought or was told that they could have some substantial value and I still don't know if they do. The Luger, my father had said years ago, he leased from a pawn shop for 99 years, as the shop owner said it could not be sold. (??) My question is this: My adopted sister and her husband are blue collar workers with 3 small children. They were living in a very modest dwelling and had nothing to speak of in possessions. Suddenly last year, they took a cruise with the 3 children in the middle of the school year. They go sky diving every weekend, several jumps a piece and they have to drive and stay in a hotel for those excursions. They bought new vehicles, all sorts of pricey techno gadgets in the house. And they bought a house that cost over $200,000, still keeping and renting out their other one. They seem to have money to burn on a daily basis as well. My daughter and myself found out about this largess quite to the adopted sister's dismay. She said, well I didn't want to tell anybody because I didn't want 20 questions. She explained the sudden money flow away as friends' magnanimous gestures etc. Plus they had lousy credit prior, even having their telephone service in an assumed name. Since that time, since the contents of the storage building were my mothers, I have asked her to send pics of Dad's firearms. That was months ago and I've seen no pictures. In priors pictures of just this that and the other, I had seen the guns in a nice gun case in the background. Mother went this summer to spend a week with her and I told her to casually glance around for the guns. She reported she saw no trace of them. Could the guns be where they came into at least a quarter of a million? For peace of mind I would like to know. I know all of her growing up years she was very mean to Mom and Dad so she would have no compunction about such a deed. Yes a law suit would be nice and I could go down their myself and learn the truth but the deed is done and there would be little gain and years to wait and Mother and I have no such funds anyway. Just wanting to know one way or the other, Jane

Answer:
Jane- Depending on what was in the collection, it could have been worth well over a quarter million, or maybe only a few thousand (or less). A WW1 Luger is not that big a deal, and British Enfields tend to be very inexpensive. You mention a Gatling gun, and they can be high dollar items ($50,000-150,000 depending on model and condition and accessories.)

There are many possible explanations for your relatives' sudden wealth. Perhaps the "friends' magnanimous gestures" explanation is a truthful one. Since you are already impugning your relatives behavior, I will add a few more possibilities. Maybe they are involved in selling illegal drugs. Perhaps your sister is a talented prostitute or a madam for others who are better. Maybe they smuggle illegal aliens. Maybe they go to the casinos and leave with all the money that other suckers gambled away. Since they do not seem to be very forthcoming, and you suspect crooked behavior, perhaps it would be better to let the professionals lean on them. The friendly Internal Revenue Service loves to get tips on folks who are cheating on taxes, and if the kinfolks are cheating you, they are probably cheating Uncle Sam too. I think the IRS also pays rewards to those who turn in tax cheats, so maybe you can get some "compensation" that way. If you think you had a legal right to any of the property that now seems to have disappeared, you may want to hire an attorney to file endless lawsuits at obscene hourly rates to try to recover them. However, the only ones to end up rich after that sort of endeavor will be the lawyers for both sides. You would have a lot more fun (and less expense) just getting the IRS to put the squeeze on them. Family feuds are ugly and create a lot of ill feeling (as your question certainly proves) and there is no simple way to resolve them and keep everybody happy. Do whatever you think it right. Good luck, and I hope that any guns involved end up with a good home. If there are any left, I would recommend putting them up for sale at a reputable auction (Little John's; or Amoskeag Auction Company are two good ones) or sell them to Collector Firearms in Houston. Then you can all fight over the money and let the guns live happily elsewhere. John Spangler


# 10009 - Spreewerk DOM
5/4/2004
Al, Laurinburg, NC

Walther - P 38 - 9mm - 4.75'' - Blue - 4293 Y -

88 is stamped on the frame under some sort of design I can't make out. It is very small. Serial #'s on the slide and frame match. My wife's uncle says he carried this pistol until he left the army in the early 50's. It was given to him by another SGT. He has the holster with attached belt. The holster has a magazine holder on the side complete with extra mag. I'm sure the pistol was made by Spreewerke but I'm not sure of much else. The bluing is in remarkable condition as is the entire weapon. I fired it today and it is still accurate works like new. Can you tell me when It was made and what it might be worth?

Answer:
Al, Spreewerke P.38 pistols are different from those manufactured by Walther and Mauser because they are not stamped with the year of Manufacture. Spreewerke serial numbers are limited to four digits and a letter suffix. Since there is no year stamping, numbers do not start over again at the beginning of each year like those of Walther and Mauser. Collectors are able to use Spreewerk letter suffixes to estimate the year of manufacture for these pistols. My calculation, based on averaging production numbers, is that your pistol was manufactured between December 26 1944 and January 3 1945. Check our catalogs for comparable pistols to get an idea of value, I believe that we have one or two listed there. Marc


# 6529 - Inland Import Carbine
5/4/2004
Dan, Lamont, Okla.

Inland - M1 Carbine - .30 - Standard - Parkerized - 3119XX -

Inland Division, Gen. Motors 3-43 on barrel. Barrel overstamped ''BLUE SKY/ARLINGTON VA.'' Rec. stamped Inland Div. Trigger frame has ''U'' stamped in mag well. Bayonet lug is part of the band instead of weld to barrel. Band and rear sight has ''J.M.O.'' stamp. Flat Bolt. Very good bore. 97% parkar finish. I know very little about M1 carbines. How can I tell if this is a import? What is import? I see lots of references to import in adds. Does this carbine have any value as a collector? I bought it to use in reenactments and don't know if it should be used or collected.

Answer:
Dan, the Inland Division of General Motors manufactured your carbine sometime in 1943. During WWII, there were 10 manufacturers of carbines, ranging from traditional firearms companies like Winchester to juke box makers like Rockola with several companies who made business machines and automotive parts like Underwood, IBM, Inland, Standard Products, Quality Hardware, and Saginaw. Inland manufactured more carbines than any of the other companies.

Your carbine is definitely an import. The gun control act of 1986 required all imported firearms, including those made in the U. S. and exported to be stamped with the caliber and the importer's name and location. Blue Sky chose one of the largest letter faces of any importer, and so are considered the most defaced. The gossip is that most Blue Sky carbines came from those we sent to the Koreans. Your carbine was rebuilt at least once. When it left the factory it did not have the bayonet lug. This is typical of most carbines.

The price of all carbines has climbed substantially over the last 10 years, but the fact that your carbine is rebuilt and the import marks make it a good choice for a use as reenactor gun. Marc


# 6683 - Civil War Remington " Sniper Rifle? "
5/4/2004
Dennis, Melbourne, Florida

Unknown - Unknown - 36? - Approx. 30 Inches - Don't Know - NONE -

Remington Cast Steel on barrel Rome stamped in the percussion cap area I have been told that this gun was carried by a great great uncle during the Civil War. We know very little about it and are looking for a good resource so that we can learn more if possible. Is this likely to be a gun manufactured by Remington for the civil war or possibly something they modified. The Rome stamped on the percussion cap area has me a little confused. Thanks for any help.

Answer:
Dennis- Besides complete firearms, much of Remington's early production was in the form of rifled barrels sold to gunsmiths for their use. I would suspect that only the barrel was made by Remington. Rome (being a city in New York state a well as one in Italy) is probably the location of the actual maker of the gun. I would expect his name to appear on the gun somewhere, but it was not unusual for rifles to be altered over their period of use, often including shortening of the barrel at one or both ends, and that may have resulted in the elimination of the maker's name. Military rifles of the Civil War period were nearly always .50 caliber or larger. A few muzzle loading sniper rifles were used of smaller caliber, and these were basically civilian target rifles that went off to war with their owners, usually in units that did not serve very long terms. Perhaps some research into your relative's Civil War service would help identify the type of unit, and raise or lower the possibility of this being a (potentially very valuable) Civil War sniper rifle. In my opinion, the more likely explanation is that "This gun belonged to Uncle Bob. Uncle Bob fought in the Civil War" has been blended into "Uncle Bob carried this gun in the Civil War" in family oral history over the years. It would still have great sentimental value, and perhaps even some good collector value (depending on exactly what the gun is, and the condition) but no where near the value of a documented Civil War sniper rifle. John Spangler


# 10072 - Rusty JC Higgins
5/1/2004
Peggy diboll, TX

J C Higgins - 3030 - Rusty -

My fathers old gun has not been used much. It has got rusty and I would like to know how to clean it and get all the rust off. thank you Peggy

Answer:
Peggy, if your father's rifle is not too severely rusted, I recommend that you use light steel wool, WD-40 and a lot of elbow grease to remove the rust. If the rusting problem is severe the attentions of a professional gunsmith may required.

To do a thorough job, the gunsmith will have to completely dissemble your father's rifle and then remove the rust from each part individually. Common tools for rust removal are chemicals, wire wheels and bead blasting. If a wire wheel is skillfully used, it is possible that some or most of the original finish may be preserved. The use of chemicals or bead blasting will completely remove the original finish. If the original finish is removed, a new finish will need to be applied to keep the rifle from rusting all over again.

Refinishing a firearm can be expensive, and it will ruin any collector value that a gun may have. There is no collector interest in J. C. Higgins firearms so collector value should not be a concern, but the cost of refinishing may be more than the rifle is worth. Marc


# 10073 - Old Browning Pistol
5/1/2004
randy, Eugene, or.

Brevete S. G. D. G . - .32 I Think - 4 Inches - Blue - 325544 -

fabrique-nationale-herstal-liege (Browning's Patent) are stamped on the left side of the slide. on the left side of the receiver there is a oval with a picture of a pistol stamped and NN inside the oval. The slide, receiver and sights all bear the same serial number. the pistol has the barrel on the bottom and the recoil spring on the top. the initials FN are located on the plastic handgrips. I don't know much about this pistol other than it is a world war I vintage (possibly military issue from Canada). Any information that you could provide about this pistol would be helpful. year of Manufacture, military or non military issue, Age of pistol, value, etc. thanks, randy

Answer:
randy, it is very doubtful that your pistol was Canadian military issue. My guess is that you have a FN Model 1900 because this model made use of a tubular compartment over the barrel to house the recoil spring in the slide.

The 1900 was designed by John M. Browning, it is said to have been the most positive striker-fired mechanism ever invented with a lockwork that was extremely simple and robust. It was the first firearm ever to use the 7.65mm (.32) cartridge, which Browning designed for this application.

In 1900 the pistol was adopted for use by the Belgian Army, it was also sold commercially and later used by many European military and police forces. Early pistols had thin grip plates embossed with a representation of the pistol and a small FN logo, later pistols had more robust grips which bore the letters FN intertwined in a florid style.

Model 1900 production ended in 1912 after approximately 724,500 had been built. Blue book values for Model 1900 pistols ranges from $100 to over $450 depending on condition and markings. Marc


# 6694 - Hopkins & Allen-Numrich Arms
5/1/2004

Hopkins & Allen-Numrich Arms - Minuteman-black Powder Rifle - .45cal - 40'' - Blue -

Just interested in the history of this black powder rifle........and when did Numrich Arms aquire Hopkins and allen?...........the barrel has a clear ''Hopkins and Allen'' stamp and the name Minuteman stamped large on the barrel.....then very small , just barely fitting on the barrel ''Numrich Arms,west Hurly, NY was this gun a kit?.........and when was it available? thanks roy freedom farm

Answer:
Roy- In this great country of ours, entrepreneurs have a lot of leeway in creating and marketing items. The names of once great companies are often used to help sell products that have no connection with the owners who made them famous and respected. Abercrombie and Fitch were respected New York City retailers of high quality sporting goods. Now the brand is used to peddle expensive clothing that no self respecting parent would want their kids to wear, lest they be mistaken for teenaged sluts or gang members. I do not know how that brand name made the transition. There is a wine known as "Two buck Chuck" which is quite good, but sold for $1.99 per bottle. ()At least until a TV special made it more popular and they raised the prices so it is now "Three buck Chuck" but still pretty darn good, or at least we enjoyed the case we bought!). That brand is officially "Charles Shaw Wine" but Mr. Shaw, who previously made very expensive wines, got divorced and in the settlement, his ex-wife got the rights to the name for winery use, and gleefully sold it to someone noted for making really cheap wines. Hopkins and Allen was a famous old gun maker, tracing its origins back to Ethan Allen ??????????????? Hopkins & Allen finally went out of business in 1918. I do not know when or under what circumstances it was acquired by Numrich, but they do not seem to have used it very much. John Spangler


# 6695 - Mauser K98k With "SS" Markings
5/1/2004
Richard, Biloxi, Ms

BNZ 42 - K-98 - 7.92 - 23 - Blue - 4648 -

Single ss rune below 42 on the receiver, many waffens, Russian x on receiver I see these advertised for sale , are they real ss weapons, and do you have a ball park idea of what they are worth.

Answer:
Richard- Without examining the specific rifle, we cannot tell if the markings are authentic or not, nor set a value on it. Supply and demand will set the fair market value, so if you think they are a good deal, go ahead and get one. As far as the markings being authentic, that is hard to tell, as SS marks seem to get some collectors into a real frenzy (and some people buying SS stuff are downright weird!). That is powerful incentive for fakers to turn a cheap rifle into a pricey item. Those familiar with doing business with the now free market Russian businessmen report that many seem to be ethically challenged, so I would be a bit skeptical about the markings. Richard Law's "Backbone of the Wehrmacht" has the best and most reliable info and clear photos on SS marked rifles that are believed to be authentic. Study up, know your dealer, and select wisely. John Spangler


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