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# 4830 - Winchester Canada (Cooey)
6/29/02
Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Canada

Winchester - Cooey - 270 - 22 or 24 - blued - 8229 -

Made in Cobourg, Ontario I was wondering if you could give me any info on this gun?

Answer:
H. W. Cooey Company of Toronto, Canada started manufacturing firearms in 1919, after WWII they relocated to Cobourg, Ontario. In 1961 the Olin Corporation purchased Cooey and changed their name to Winchester Canada.

Winchester Canada manufactured several types of firearm including:

  • Single shot 22 rimfire rifle models Winchester Cooey 39, 75 and 750.
  • Bolt action 22 rimfire rifle models 600 Cooey, and 60 Winchester Cooey.
  • Autoloading 22 rimfire rifle models 64 Cooey and 490.
  • Slide action shotgun model 2200 Winchester Cooey (the Winchester Model 1200).
  • Autoloading shotgun model 2400 Winchester Cooey (the Winchester Model 1400).
  • Bolt action centerfire rifle model 710 (the Winchester Model 70).
About 1964, a number of model changes were made and some additions were made to the line. Relatively few firearms were made by Winchester of Canada and most of them were sold there, a few found their way to the USA and some were exported to the other countries, especially Australia and New Zealand. Marc


# 4795 - Springfield 1863 Shotgun
6/29/02
Jim, Salida, Colorado

Springfield - 1863 - ? ? ? ? - 34 Inches - Originally Blue ? ? - none- or can't find -

Lock plate has 1863 behind hammer - U. S. SPRINGFIELD & the eagle with shield front of hammer /Back of barrel has rear pointing triangle, the letter P, there is a stamp I can't Id. the part the nipple screws into appears to also have the eagle & shield. I would be interested in any Info. on this gun, including should it be added to my insured gun list, for how much? This appears to be a 1863 that has a shotgun barrel on it(unknown gauge) The only clue I have, in the early 1900s Bannerman bought some 63s & converted them to shotgun with condemned barrels, is this one? Forepiece of stock probably cut off, only 1 barrel band & it only extends 14 In. from trigger guard. This is a found gun, barrel has pitting, 1 or more screws replaced, small split in stock along barrel.

Answer:
Jim- Bannerman had tons of surplus Civil War musket and parts from the 1880s onward, and little market for them. However, when cut down to a shorter size, and bored out smooth, they could be sold as cheap shotguns. (I believe the price was something like $3.50, about the cost of a screw for one nowadays.) They can be fun shooters (if a competent gunsmith approves firing) or a source of a few parts. However, they are not great collector prizes, and values seem to run about that of the component parts, usually something like $250 or less. In many cases the buttplates and/or trigger guards are made from cheap cast iron parts since those were being stripped from muskets for use in making .45-70 rifles before the Army sold the rest of the muskets as scrap. Similarly, some of the lock guts are also "improvised" especially mainsprings, and bridles are often missing. Breechplugs are often crude castings. I would not bother with insurance. This is a good gun to leave out in sight (if you leave any in sight) so that burglars spotting it will grab it and run without bothering to look for the good stuff. John Spangler


# 4783 - Tower 1861 Musket
6/29/02
Jud

Flintlock - 36" -

British Crown Tower 1861 I recently inherited a beautiful old flintlock from my grandfather. I can't find any info on it. It seems to be smooth bore, 36 inch barrel; only markings are a British Crown, and Tower 1861. Can you help?

Answer:
Jud- I think we may have a failure to communicate here. Flintlock arms were pretty well obsolete by the 1840s, and I am not aware of any being made under British government contracts in 1861, even for issue to untrustworthy colonial troops, or sale to African natives. I suspect you have a percussion gun, where the hammer strikes a nipple looking think on the barrel, not a moving frizzen that pivots to expose the flashpan so sparks from the flint hitting the frizzen will ignite the powder. The 36 inch barrel is not a common length. Rifle muskets for the infantry had 39 inch barrels, while two band rifles for specialty troops or NCOs usually had 33 inch barrels. My guess is that you have a musket that has been altered at some point in its history. You may want to research further in "The British Soldiers Firearm" which covers this period in great detail. John Spangler


# 4865 - Herters Press Replacement Parts
6/26/02
Merritt, Fuquay Varina, NC

Herters - Super Model 3 -

This is a reloading press I bought on Ebay that arrived broken. The arm is broken right at the pivot pin. Doggone thing broke clean off. Any ideas where I can get a replacement?

Answer:
Merritt, do you have any friends who are machinists? I do not know of any source for replacement parts for your press. I purchased a press at a local swap meet with the same problem that it sounds like you are describing. The price for my press was under $5.00 because it was broken. It was not too difficult even for a amateur machinist like me to manufacture a new part. Now the press works fine. Good Luck! Marc


# 4772 - Eddystone Model 1917
6/26/02
Matt St. Louis, Missouri

Eddystone - Model 1917 Enfield - .30-06 - Standard - Black - 1225165 -

Barrel is marked "R 11-17". "P" cartouche inside of a box located on the pistol grip just to the rear of the trigger guard. "S S. A. A. " cartouche in a rectangular box just below the bolt release at the rear of the receiver on the left side of the stock. Need help with history of my Model 1917 Eddystone. First, it has a thick black metal finish that I have never seen before. It's not a clear blue or a gray-green parkerized finish, it is a dull black finish similar to Parkerization. It is very old, not something recently done. I have read that some model 1917's and Springfield 03's were actually finished like this in WWI as opposed to the standard blued finish. Is this true, or was this done in the 1920's or 1930's? Second, the stock has 2 cartouches. First, 20"S S. A. A. " in a rectangular box just below the bolt release at the rear of the receiver on the left side of the stock. The second is a "P" inside of a box located on the hand grip just to the rear of the trigger guard. Barrel is marked "R 11-17". Would a Remington barrel ever be original to an Eddystone? Thanks for the help.

Answer:
Matt- A Remington Barrel on an Eddystone might possibly be original, but I doubt it, especially with the other info provided. I have not heard of any documented sharing of parts among the three makers (Winchester, Remington, and Remington's subsidiary at Eddystone) and indeed there were problems ensuring interchangeability of parts at first. The SSAA indicates overhauls at San Antonio Arsenal, probably in the period 1920-1930, or perhaps in 1941-42 when we were busy shipping Model 1917 rifles to our allies all over the world. The P in a box is a typical mark from proof firing during overhaul. The thick mat black finish is not uncommon, but it is unusual. I am not sure if it is an arsenal process, or perhaps something done in foreign service, or perhaps someone with a can of "Gun Kote" which is a spray paint type finish that some people use to fake military finishes, while others merely make their guns look good. John Spangler


# 4755 - Pepperbox
6/26/02
TC, Monroe, La.

Pepper Box Pistol - Four Shot Muzzleloading - .36 - 3" - Gun Blue - 20176P -

CMC I would like to get any information that you have on this pistol

Answer:
TC- Sorry, based on your description we cannot tell you anything. It is not common for muzzle loading pepperboxes to have serial numbers. My wild guess is that it may be a modern reproduction, but we cannot be sure. John Spangler


# 4835 - Colt Army Special .38
6/22/02
Barry, North Augusta, SC

Colt - Army Special 38 - 38 Special - 6 inch - Blue - 326025 -

There is a smaller "3" about an eight of an inch below the serial number under the 3. There is also a very small 3 behind the trigger where the guard attaches behind the trigger on the left side. There is a triangle pointing down and it looks like it has "VP" in it but with the perpendicular line of the P sharing the right side of the V. This triangle marking is also on the left side where the trigger guard attaches in front of the trigger. On the top of the barrel it has the following 2 lines:Line 1:"COLT'S PT. F. A. MFG. CO. HARTFORD, CT USA"Line 2:"PAT'D AUG. 5 1884 JUNE 5 1900 JULY 4 1905"It has the colt emblem on the side just in front of and above where the grips end. It has the horse with a "C" around it. It has the hard black rubber grips with the "Colt" name in the front/forward position at a diagonal. What year was this made? Was this an Army purchase or individual? Any way to tell? It is in decent condition. The blueing is near around 95% but there is a little bit of rust pitting in a few spots. The worst spot of all is right on the Colt Logo(too bad). But it is still readable and relatively smooth and the rust is really on surface rust. The pitting is very shallow and almost imperceptible. About how much would it be worth? Even a range would be great.

Answer:
Barry, my records indicate that your revolver was made in early 1912. Colt Army Special production began in 1908 and ended in 1927 with about 250,000 being produced. The name Army Special was given this model name by Colt to boost sales. By the time the Army Special was being manufactured, the U.S. Army had begun replacing their revolvers with the U.S. Model 1911 semi automatic pistol. The army bought revolvers from Colt and Smith and Wesson in 1917-1918 because Colt couldn't manufacture enough semi automatic pistols to satisfy war time demands, but these were the large frame New Service Colt, and a large frame Smith and Wesson revolver. Values for Colt Army Special revolvers range from about $200 to about $450 depending on condition. Marc


# 4752 - Snider Enfield Rifle
6/22/02
Don. , Kamloops, B. C. , Canada

BSA Co. 1872 - Snider Enfield/2 Band - .577 - 20 1/2" - Blue - YEA19 -

Crown (over)VR, [Arrow(over)WD, the number392(on rolling block)], Crossed Sabers(or flags)on breach block and barrel, YEA19 on butt plate and breach block. A crude(*)on the barrel and breach block. Several more markings along the barrel etc. Are there any records of where this rifle was issued, or who owned it? Are there any detail pictures of how the inner mechanism works? (Firing pin, trigger sear, etc. )I have not disassembled the rifle but I think there has been parts removed to prevent the rifle from being fired (like the firing pin and trigger sear)

Answer:
Don- Unfortunately there are few, if any, records remaining to show where various Snider rifle or Carbines were issued. The only ones I know of are fragmentary records of issues to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. However, the Canadians followed the British practice of placing unit markings on may of their guns and other pieces of military equipment. Originally intended to help detect theft or return found items to the proper outfit, they now serve as historical records. In some cases old marks were removed, and in later guns, they used a disposable brass "marking disc" held in the stock by a crew to hold the marks. In the Snider era, they used the brass buttplate tang, or just stamped the marks in the wood. In this case, the YEA 19 is probably the unit marking. A quick scan of Ian Skennerton's "The Broad Arrow" which is an exhaustive listing of various production, proof, inspection, armorer, unit, and issue markings does not turn up an entry for YEA. The remaining markings you describe relate to the manufacture and proof of the rifle. The number on the bottom of the breechblock is the serial number on Sniders. Mechanical functioning is pretty straightforward. The hammer hits the firing pint that runs through the breechblock to hit the primer, so it should be easy to check to see if it is okay. The sear for the lock may or may not be the problem. More often it seems to be the sear spring that causes problems holding the hammer back. Sometime it has just slipped out of position, and other time the leaf spring is broken. Anyone familiar with muzzle loading locks will be able to figure out what makes a Snider work. Neat old guns, and I think greatly undervalued on the market today. John Spangler


# 4751 - Breech Loading Percussion Wall Gun(?)
6/22/02
Paul, Toronto, On. , Canada

? - Maybe Belgium - Breech Loading Black Powder - 0.85 Calibre /_ - About 48 Inches - Original Brown - NONE -

This 85 cal. non-cartridge percussion cap rifle has a lever on the left side to unlock the breech block which then slides back and then is tipped up and loaded with black powder and ball[probably]. The breech block is then set back down and slid forward about 1/8 " into the barrel and the locking lever is swung behind the block and then latched on the left side. Heavy 48" barrel with about 15 deep grooves. Couldn't get a good look. Heavy pointed spike about 8" long mounted on bottom of barrel- looks liked it fit into a mount of some sort so that rifle could be steadied and swivelled. Rifle weighs about 35 lbs. I will get a better look at this rifle soon with the chance to buy it. Could you tell me anything to help me determine a suitable price. The rifle is about a 8 out of 10. Thanks

Answer:
Paul- This sure sounds like it is a "rampart" or "wall" gun intended to have the support near the muzzle stuck in the top of the wall of the fort or whatever to support the weight while the marksman picked off the attackers before they could get close enough to hurt anyone with their smaller caliber muskets or rifles. Such rampart guns were popular with the French and they had regulation models of 1717, 1831, 1838, 1840 and 1842. I believe that the latter one or two were breechloaders, but I do not recall or have handy any references with) details. I have seen three or four of these for sale over the years and they are very impressive. Value would probably be pretty much between you and the seller to decide who wants it more, or how fussy a spouse you have. There is another possible explanation for such guns, and that would be for use as "punt" guns or "market guns" to be fired from a small boat (or "punt", unrelated to things grown men do with pieces of inflated pigskin while dressed in silly costumes making barbaric noises on Sunday afternoons). By using large guns with lots of shot it was possible to slaughter whole flocks of waterfowl (while on the water, not in flight) and sell them to hungry folks in the cities. However, such guns were smoothbores, and since yours is rifled, it is almost certainly in the rampart or wall gun category. Sounds neat in any case. John Spangler


# 4729 - Damaged Underwood M-1 Carbine
6/19/02
Matt Tiger GA

Underwood - US M1carbine National Postal Meter - 30 Carbine - Blue -

What is the approximate decrease in value of one of these guns if the receiver is broken on the left side when looking at the gun from the butt? It appears as if someone at one time or another has pressed against the bolt and cracked the side of the receiver.

Answer:
Matt, In my opinion the damaged that you describe to your receiver will reduce the price of your carbine to the value of it's individual parts. Marc


# 4705 - Haywood, Chester Flintlock Pistols
6/19/02
Mike, Ontario, Canada

10mm - 3.5in -

I have a pair of very old Flintlock Pistols. The stock appears to be wood with silver inlay. On the left side of each of them HAYWOOD is engraved and on the right side CHESTER. These pistols are very old and I am wondering if the words CHESTER & HAYWOOD might give a clue as to their age and place of origin. A bit of history would be most welcome.

Answer:
Mike- There are English gunsmiths known with the name Chester, as well as Haywood. However, Mr. Chester was located in Lincolnshire. Therefore we must assume that the markings refer to one of the Haywoods located in Chester, Cheshire (as in Alice's grinning cat). Thomas Haywood worked there circa 1783-1792, Peter in 1815, William 1815-1833, and James 1815-1847. My guess is that we are talking about a family where Thomas was the father and the other three being sons or other relations. These sound like pretty good quality pieces and if they are in good condition and/or cased, they probably would have a fair amount of collector interest and value. My guess is that someone emigrating from England to their colony in Canada brought them along for protection against the dangers of criminals, Indian attacks, or unpredictable outbursts by the not yet fully assimilated inhabitants of French persuasion. Of course, they just a well could have been plunder seized by pirates and sold to merchants, or something shipped to a Canadian collector from elsewhere in recent years. On the bright side, you can probably look forward to some foolish expansion of Canada's anti-gun laws to ban even antique handguns like these, ostensibly to prevent crime, or accidental shootings of The Children. Nice theories, but utterly without practical benefit, even though your stupid politicians will not admit that there are no countries where disarming the law abiding citizens has reduced violent crime. Our stupid politicians are trying the same scam down here, and we MUST stop them. John Spangler


# 4748 - Colt 1860 Army
6/19/02
Ron Norco , Ca , USA

Colt - 1860 Army - 44 - 220 Mm - ? - 54339 -

Small "H" on trigger guard. Some brass trim. Can you provide any information on this particular piece? When was it manufactured? Who was it assigned to? What is the history of the revolver? Many Thanks Ron

Answer:
Ron, my records indicate that your revolver was made sometime in 1863. Colt began production of this model in 1860 and ended in 1873 when the demand for cap and ball pistols dropped dramatically because of the introduction of Colt's first cartridge pistol, the Single Action Army. The letter H is an U.S. military inspector's mark. Other U.S. inspectors marks found on these pistols include the letters C, L and W. The model 1860 can be thought of as the 44 magnum pocket pistol of its day. Colt's prior 44 caliber pistol was so large (and heavy) that it was designed to be carried in a holster slung across a saddle, not on a man's belt. The Model 1860 was designed to be carried on a belt, yet provide the knock down power of the 44 caliber ball. Because of this it was widely used by officers and enlisted men in both the Union and Confederate armies. This association with the Civil war has meant that there is a steady market for authentic Model 1860's.

Most Model 1860's were heavily used, and so most will have little or no finish. One way to judge the amount of use is to check the pistol's cylinder. It should have an engraving of the Texas navy engaged in battle with the Mexican Navy, and the date of the battle May 13, 1843. If this is not visible then it has been worn off through repeated use.

I was unable to find any records other than the date of manufacture for your revolver in my database. Marc


# 4721 - Spangler Percussion Rifle
6/19/02
Bill, Oviedo, FL

Spangler - 54 - 5/16th -

Percussion cap rifle-<2*Spangler>- Eagle looking forward 1830-40sLength 53' the barrel is 8 sided Wood stock is striped vertical3 shades of color on the wood Trying to identify weather it is an original antique or replica.

Answer:
Bill- Among the distinguished Spangler lineage there are no gunsmiths that I am aware of, but surely it is possible that another handsome, smart guy like me might have been in the arms trade. Non-relative gun makers included the following from Frank Sellers' excellent "American Gunmakers": three with first initials of J, P. an S.- unlocated makers of percussion fullstock or halfstock rifles. Others include D.W. from Fort Smith, AR; George from Liverpool, PA; in the flintlock era; and another George (son of Sam below) who operated in Monroe, WI circa 1843-1900. Samuel started in Somerset, PA circa 1823-1834 before moving to Monroe, WI about 1844. but he may have been primarily a lock maker, not a rifle maker. J.H. Spangler of Toledo, Oregon circa 1889, T.C. Spangler of Neonset, IL in 1877 and Annawan, IL in 1880 are other choices, along with William in Floyd Courthouse, VA circa 1888-1893. Spangler and Williams of Monroe. WI made a halfstock over-under rifle, and that was probably our old buddy George, son of Sam. Perhaps one of these folks made your rifle, but it would be hard to narrow the field down unless you can find someone smart about regional characteristics that would rule in or out some folks on the list. John Spangler


# 4719 - US Model of 1917?
6/15/02
Darren, Schuylkill Haven, Pa

US Model of 1917 - ? ? ? ? - 30.06 - Blue - ? ? ? ? ? -

Flaming Bomb on barrel. "O" with what looks like a top hat or keystone on top of it. Several "BM" stamps on barrel. "E" on receiver. Number "5415" on barrel behind back sight. This rifle appears to have been redone at some point in the past. The barrel looks rather new and doesn't look dark like others I have seen. The stock is a sporter stock with the buttplate compartment. The rifle is in excellent shape and I am looking to find as much info as I can but there is no serial number on the barrel and no clear markings on the stock. I would like to get another stock for it. Will a stock that fits a 1917 fit all three manufacturers or are they slightly different?

Answer:
Darren, If your rifle is a U.S. M1917, the receiver should be stamped with "U.S." over "MODEL OF 1917" over the manufacturer over serial number. M1917 rifles had the manufactures name Eddystone, Remington or Winchester stamped on the receiver, early Winchesters had only a letter identifying the manufacturer (W). The serial number was always stamped on the receiver, not behind the rear sight as you describe. The device you describe on the barrel is the Ordnance Corps symbol, a flaming cannonball. A letter indicating the manufacturer (again E,R,W) should be above the flaming bomb, and the month and year of manufacture below it. Concerning stocks, if the rifle is really a U.S. Model 1917 then any Model 1917 stock will fit it. The stocks were interchangeable between manufacturers. Marc


# 4684 - 1903A3 "Training Rifle"
6/15/02
Nathan, Eielson AFB, AK

1903 A3 Training Rifle - 22. Cal -

Has to have J. W. Fecker scope base mounts Where can I find an all original, fully functional, 1903 A3 Training Rifle? Has to have a good barrel, action, stock, and base mounts for my scope. The scope is a J. W. Fecker made in Cleveland, Ohio.

Answer:
Nathan- Fecker target scopes are high quality items, very similar to those made by John Unertl. Perhaps some were used for competition, but as far as I know, there is absolutely, positively NO known use of these on 1903A3 rifles for any sort of military training by U.S. military forces. Of course, it is possible that surplus rifles later had Fecker (or Unertl, or Tasco, or whomever) scopes added for civilian use as target/hunting/plinking rifles. If you want a rifle to put your scope on, any old M1903A3 will do and a gunsmith can install bases for you. I believe that the Unertl bases (now being made again by Unertl) should work. John Spangler


# 4691 - LaFrance Multiple Shot Rifle
6/15/02
John

La France - .22 - 26" - Blue - 12 -

This rifle has seven barrels that fire at the same time . It has a lever on the bottom which opens a rolling block and cocks the hammer which has 7 firing pins . The action is engraved and the stock and forearm are checkered . It is in 95% cond. What was it used for and what is it worth ?

Answer:
John- Sounds like a neat gun, and if in .22 rimfire, it is merely a cartridge evolution of the concept of a "volley gun" which dates back at least to the mid 1700s. Henry Nock delivered a number of seven barreled volley guns for British Navy use. These also discharged all barrels simultaneously. I guess that the theory was that multiple bullets fired at the same time increased the chances of getting a hit on one (or more) targets being fired upon. This is much like the use of buckshot in shotguns, but probably with a longer effective range than could be achieved from the shotguns. There are certain trade-offs between the volley gun firing seven rounds at once, and a repeating gun which can quickly fire seven individual rounds. Amount of ammunition consumed per hit, time to reload between shots, weight of the gun, complexity, difficulty and cost to manufacture, etc. All sorts of innovative ideas have been tried to increase firepower, with some being totally original, but many are merely updated versions of old ideas, as in this case. As an oddity, I am sure there would be a lot of collector interest. I have not seen one for sale and have not feel for how desperately a collector may lust after one of these, or if it has to be a really cheap item for an impulse buy as something unusual to show their friends. John Spangler


# 4714 - Springfield 1849 (M1842) Musket
6/11/02
Berry

Springfield - Marked 1849 - Unknown, Maybe 50 Cal. - 43 Inches - Brown - NOT AVAILABLE -

Marked " Springfield 1849 " on the lock (right side) can find no other markings Was this a civil war rifle and if so, what Caliber? Where can I find history or information on this rifle?

Answer:
Berry- My guess is that you have a Model 1842 musket, as these had a 42 inch barrel, and were the only model with barrels that long being made at Springfield in 1849. These were .69 caliber, smoothbore and fired a round ball weighing about an ounce with an effective range of about 300 yards, but with little real accuracy beyond about 100-150 yards. These were percussion guns, using a small priming compound in a tiny copper cap (sort of like the shape of Abe Lincoln's top hat) that fit on the "nipple" sticking out of the end of the barrel. Powder and ball were loaded from the muzzle and rammed down with the ramrod, and a cap placed on the nipple, and the gun would fire when the trigger was pulled after the hammer hit the cap sending a flame into the barrel to ignite the powder. These were widely used by troops on both sides in the early days of the Civil War, and many remained in use until the end of the war. They were less effective and less popular than the .58 caliber rifle muskets that fired a "Minie ball" accurately to about 500 yards, but still deadly, if somewhat inaccurate, up to about 1,000 yards. The Model 1842 could be an interesting collecting specialty all by itself. This model was made by the federal arsenals at Springfield and Harpers Ferry, and was the first model with truly 100% interchangeable parts by both makers. The Model 1842 was also made under contract by Asa Waters of Milbury, Massachusetts, some marked with the Waters name, and others with the markings of Benjamin Flagg. William Glaze in Columbia, SC, had a contract and delivered 6,000 Model 1842 muskets marked Palmetto Armory in 1852-53. However, despite claims by Glaze that they were being produced in his shops, recent research has shown that he was actually buying parts (many of them condemned as substandard) from Waters and merely finishing and assembling the guns in South Carolina. Eli Whitney's firm also turned out a cousin of the Model 1842 using 1842 style barrels but smaller Model 1841 "Mississippi" rifle locks for sale to New Hampshire. Model 1842 muskets were all originally smooth bore, but many were rifled, and some were rifled and equipped with fancy rear sights, some at Springfield before being issued, and others later on at various locations. A serious collector would want an example from each of the makers, but the truly fanatical would want one smoothbore, one rifled and one rifled and sighted from each maker. My therapist advises me to be content with having the three variations from both Springfield and Harpers Ferry and not have anxiety from lack of the others. Okay? John Spangler


# 4898 - Remington-Hepburn Rifle
6/11/02
Dave, Airdrie, Alberta, Canada

Remington-Hepburn - Number 3 - .45-70 - 26" - 1982 -

Would like to know the year of manufacture of this rifle. It is about 80% condition, lots of case color on the receiver, good bluing on barrel etc. , with a mint bore. Also approximate value.

Answer:
Dave, the No. 3 Remington-Hepburn Rifle was designed by Lewis L. Hepburn who was the superintendent of Remington's mechanical department, and also a member of the American Creedmoor International Shooting Team who unexpectedly beat the Irish team at Creedmoor in 1874. The Remington-Hepburn was patented in 1879 and first introduced in 1880. Remington listed numerous variations in their catalogs until approximately 1907. Values for different models and variations vary, if your rifle is the standard sporting and target model value ranges from $800 to $2250. At the other end of the spectrum, values for the elaborate Schuetzen Match model are in the $10,000 to $35,000 range. Marc


# 4913 - Auto loading 175th anniversary Rifle
6/11/02

I have a Auto loading 175th anniversary 22" barrel 30-06 CAL rifle. I have had it for about 10 years and I am curious of how much it would be worth now. I have searched the internet and cannot find any info about it. Please help in any way possible. Thank you!

Answer:
Scott- You probably have the Remington Model 7400 introduced in 1988. In 1991 some of these were made with fancy finish and light engraving as a 175th anniversary model. A recent value guide placed the value of the standard model in 100% condition at about $450 and the 175th anniversary model at about $10 less in the same condition. Maybe 50-100 years from now collectors will have discovered they are great rarities with tremendous collector appeal, but that is definitely not the case today. We have a very low opinion of the entire commemorative firearm concept, and in our experience they are very hard to sell, and prices are usually a great disappointment to owners who figured they had to be valuable. This is especially true of the commemoratives honoring every group, person, or event short of National Jello Week by some outfit in Virginia. John Spangler


# 4901 - Liberty .25
6/8/02
Lee, Bend Oregon

Fabrique'd Arms - Liberty - .25 - Blue - 19XX -

Fabrique'd arms (faded part) de grand precision "liberty" patent-depose no 39700 on one side. its serial number on the other side looks hand stamped 19xxThe pistol grips say liberty. Just above the trigger guard there is a sun with a P. E below it then a dash, below that it has a RH with a symbol that looks likes a bulls head. All I'm trying to find out it the Age and Maker of this. Also if the model has any history.

Answer:
Lee, your pistol was probably manufactured by Retolaza Hermanos of Eibar, Spain. The Retolaza brothers entered the pistol business in the 1890s manufacturing 'Velo-Dog' type of pocket revolvers and appear to have continued producing cheap automatics until the Spanish Civil War. The first Retolaza pistol to carry the Liberty name was a 7.65mm 'Eibar' model with 8-shot magazine, and a lanyard ring on the butt with the word 'Liberty' impressed across the grips. This pistol was manufactured for the WWI market. The Liberty name was used after WWI on a 6.35mm version, of the same pattern, that had a shorter slide and grip. Grips for the 6.35mm Liberty were also impressed with the word 'Liberty' together with a lion's head logo, possibly you could have mistaken this for the bulls head that you describe. Marc


# 4905 - Melior Pistol
6/8/02
Richard, Novato, CA

Melior - Brevets - 7.65 - 3-4 In. - Blue - 51521 -

Lion Icon over P. V (looks like a fraction)(This is 90 degrees left) P (this is located to the left of the lion) 20Both are located on the frame just above the trigger guard. With the recent passing of my mother, she left me this handgun in her trust. I wanted to know: Where can I find more detailed information on this gun? What ammunitions manufacturer makes ammo for this gun? Could any reputable gunsmith evaluate and validate the guns condition and functionality? Thanks for the help!

Answer:
Richard, records indicate that the Melior name was first used on a pistol in 1907 by the Robar company of Liege, Belgium. The Robar Melior was a copy of the "Jieffeco" pistol which was manufactured by Jannsen Fils et Cie. In 1920, a totally new design was introduced as the "New Model Melior". The New Model Melior was first offered in 6.35mm and 7.65mm calibers and later in .22LR and a 9mm short all of which used the basic framework of the original 7.65mm model. Melior pistols sold steadily, from their introduction to the 1950s, and were exported all over the world. It is wise to have any old gun checked by a gunsmith to verify caliber and safety before firing. Most competent gunsmiths should be able to do the evaluation for you. Marc


# 4909 -
6/8/02
Bret, Aurora, IL

Mauser - 98 - 8mm - aprox. 21" - blued -

I purchased a K98 Mauser in 8mm. I was wondering how you can tell if the rifle is 8mm J or 8mm JS. The year of the rifle is marked 43. Are rifles, made after a certain date chambered for a different cartrage? I was thinking of tking it to a gunsmith and having him check it, but I wanted to find out if there was an easier way first. Thanks a lot.

Answer:
Bret the only safe way to know for sure wha


# 4832 - Refinish My S&W?
6/5/02
Lisa, Marine City, MI

Smith And Wesson - Don't Know - How Can I Tell? - .32 - 2 1/2" - Nickel - 3034 -

Patent dates of July 1. 84, April 9. 89, March 27. 94, May 29. 94, May 21. 95, July 16. 95, - Smith and Wesson Springfield Mass. To open and load, you pull a pin and flip out the chamber. For father's day I had this gun cleaned up and oiled. My husband got it from his father after his father's death and I thought a nice gift for him would be to have the guns polished. The man at the gun shop said he can have it re-nickeled for about $200. . . but an antique dealer said it would lower the value if the gun is rare (he hasn't seen it). IS this a rare gun? Is the last patent date probably the date of manufacture (or where can I find that? ), and should I have it re-nickeled? Sorry. . . I am gun-stupid so excuse me if I sound uninformed! I AM! :)

Answer:
Lisa, I would need more information to determine the rarity and value of your revolver. I can tell you that it is usually best not to have an old firearm refinished. I would advise you to stick with your original plan and have the revolver cleaned and oiled and to not alter the original finish. You might want to consider a different gunsmith to do the cleaning. In my opinion a gunsmith who would try to drum up business by advising a customer who is not familiar with firearms to have an antique refinished may be unscrupulous, incompetent or both. Marc


# 4688 - Revolving ??
6/5/02
Jon Seneca Falls N. Y.

? - Revolving Cylinder - 44 Rim Fire? - 24" - Blued - NONE -

The cylinder is 8 shots and is rotated manually by depressing a lever under the trigger guard. The only mark found on the bottom of the butt plate are initials p r f I would like to find out who what where and when?

Answer:
Jon- Unfortunately we cannot identify your gun. My guess is that it is perhaps something made in Belgium. Rimfire suggests a date of 1865-1890 or so. John Spangler


# 4692 - Sharps New Model 1863 Carbine Conversion
6/5/02
Allen Athens TX

Sharps Saddle Ring Carbine. . - New Model 1863 - 50/70 - 22 Inch - Blued And Case - 81028 -

A large American Eagle expertly carved on the right side of the stock It has the full set of inspectors marks. CHS is on the fore wood the wrist and fore wood are checkered I would like the date of manufacture if possible and any other information you may have. thanks in advance--Allen

Answer:
Allen- Your carbine was made as a percussion gun sometime in mid 1863. A carbine with a nearby serial number has been documented as being in use in August 1863. There is no documented history on this specific number. Sometime after the Civil War it was converted to use .50-70 centerfire metallic cartridges. Many of these were done at Springfield Armory, others by Sharps and probably some more by various private individuals or gunsmiths. The checkering and eagle carving on the wood is non-regulation and suggests that the conversion may civilian rather than military. Sounds like a nice gun anyway. John Spangler


# 4875 - Is It A Real Sniper?
6/1/02

Remington - M1903A3 - 30.06 - 23.5 In. - Parkerized - 3412221 -

I have a 1903A3 "Sniper Rifle" that belonged to my father-in-law for many years and am trying to determine a value for the weapon for my mother-in-law. As best I can determine in my research it meets all the criteria for a "sniper rifle" yet everyone I show it to is skeptical about it being a sniper rifle. It is in fine to excellent condition. I showed it to a dealer at a gun show recently and he said if I removed the Redfield Jr. scope mount, put the proper front and rear site on it(it has never had a front sight on it) it might be worth $350 to $450. He also said if it was really a "sniper rifle" it would have a "star gauge" on the front edge of the barrel. I've never seen or heard of that before and am not familiar with the terminology. Is there anything you can tell me without my having to get an appraisal, which I plan to get eventually. Thanks for any info you can supply. Al Smith,

Answer:
The best way to tell if you rifle is a correct World War II sniper rifle is by checking the markings on the receiver, the shape of the bolt, and parkerized finish on the barrel where the front sight should have been. Remington did not change the rifle's markings from M1903A3 to M1903A4, but moved the lettering on the receiver ring to the left and right so the markings and serial number can be read with the scope base in place. If the markings on your receiver are not offset to the right and left it was not a sniper rifle. The bolt handle should be bent to permit clearing the scope when the action is opened. If the rifle is in the correct stock the stock will have been professionally cut out to accommodate the bent bolt handle. This was not necessary on the regular 1903A3 stock.

Sniper barrels were taken from the regular production barrels, and had the groove machined at the front of the barrel to hold on the front sight. But the front sight was not mounted and the barrels were parkerized so this area will be the same color as the barrel. If someone removed the front sight from a non sniper rifle, this area will be in the white. The barrels on the Model 1903A4's were not star gauge. As I mentioned they were standard production barrels. If the rifle is a sniper it is certainly worth restoring. The price on an all correct Model 1903A4's is well over $2000. Because of the increase in price we're seeing more M1903A4's that were changed to other scopes, now being converted back to the A4 configuration. If the rifle is a Model 1903A3 that has been tapped and drilled for a scope you might consider looking for a military scope and base. Because of the high selling prices for the Model 1903A4's some beginning collectors are willing to buy a military scoped 1903A3 while they wait for the cash to get the M1903A4. Lynn L. (who has been kind enough to volunteer to help with questions while John is on vacation)


# 4817 - Frankenstein Luger
6/1/02
Hugh, Bethel, OH

Luger DWM - 9mm - 9mm - 4" - ? ? ? ? - ? ? ? ? -

I know nothing about these guns! Mine is in a holster with two tools and an additional, shorter barrel. There is a script DWM looking down on the pistol, a 62 looking at the rear, 9687 underneath the barrel looking from the front. There is also a "N" with what appears to be a squished "o" on top of it, looking at the side of the pistol. The holster has a name scratched in the back, and the fasteners have green gook- I presume they are brass- one of the tools- looks like a screw with a handle, also has some green oxidation. I also have two clips for it. I did fire it about ten years ago, not since. I can send pix if you wish. Was picked up by a GI in Germany in WWII. I am thinking of selling it- maybe. Is this worth in the hundreds or thousands of dollars? Thank-you!

Answer:
Hugh, it sounds like you have one of the more common WWI vintage Lugers that was manufactured by DWM (Deutsche Waffen u. Munitionswerke, Berlin-orsigwalde, Germany). Form your description of the number "62" stamped at the rear of the toggle and the serial number "9687" stamped underneath the barrel it sounds like you have a parts or "Frankenstein" gun that was assembled from parts of other Lugers, this will hurt the value. Values for mismatched parts Lugers range from $350 to about $550 depending on condition, add another $100 to $150 for the holster and accessories. Let us know if you decide to sell. Marc


# 4739 - What is a "C" Stock?
6/1/02
Kevin, Ashland, Oh, USA

Remington - 1903a3 - .30 - n/a - n/a - n/a -

What is a "C" stock? What is the difference between the standard and "C" stock? Which is more desirable as a collector?

Answer:
Kevin, the C stock was military issue for the U.S. Model 1903 and Model 1903A3 and 1903A4 rifles. Standard issue U.S. military firearms from the Revolutionary War to the early 20th Century used a stock without a pistol grip. The Model 1903 Springfield was issued in a stock without a pistol grip. The ergonomic benefits of a pistol grip are obvious to any one who has held both. In the late 1920's the Ordnance Corp decided to replace the straight grip stocks on the Model 1903's with a very nicely designed pistol grip stock, and designated it with the letter C. The restocked rifles were to be called the U.S. Model 1903A1. But the Great Depression intervened and so C stocks were only found on special production rifles such as those made for the National Matches or civilian sales. More stocks than rifles were produced, and unmarked C stocks turn up at gun shows and on the web occasionally. The Ordnance Corp's commitment to a pistol grip stock meant that the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine stocks were designed with a pistol grip from the start of production. When Remington began making the Model 1903 in late 1941 they also explored putting the rifle into a pistol grip stock, but stayed with the straight grip to end of production for most rifles. Remington had some pistol grip stocks made by Keystone. They are broader through the pistol grip, and the inletting is much more generous than the prewar C stocks. These are found as replacements on post war reworked Model 1903A3 rifles, and as original issue on a small numbers of the sniper version of the Model 1903A3, the Model 1903A4. Remington also received a large number of straight grip stock blanks from Springfield Armory, and was able to create a semi pistol grip from the available wood. These were also issued on the Model 1903A4. Despite not being a full pistol grip stock, these stocks are still referred to as C stocks.

Which is more valuable? The most valuable is the stock that is correct for the rifle when it was made. A C stock on a Springfield rifle made in 1918 will likely detract from value, but a on a rifle made in 1931 will probably add value. A straight grip stock on a Model 1903A4 will definitely detract from value, but will add value on a Model 1903A3. Lynn L. (who has been kind enough to volunteer to help with questions while John is on vacation)


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