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# 10278 - Winchester 36
6/29/2004
Fred, Pensacola, FL

Winchester - 36 - 9mm - Blue - -none- -

Interested in value of this weapon and cartridges. Condition is average, weapon has been used. Approx. one dozen rounds have survived. Would also be interested in rounds can be purchased, or if any even exist.

Answer:
Fred, Winchester designed the 36 to be a low-priced firearm for use in controlling small vermin, it was chambered for the 9mm rimfire paper shot shell, but it could also be used with 9mm rimfire ball ammunition. The Model was first introduced in the March 1920 Winchester catalog and factory records indicate that the first delivery to warehouse stock was in March 1920. Winchester hoped that the Model 36 would be popular, especially in the southern states, but it's small size (weight was only 2 and 3/4 pounds) in combination with the small gauge and the short range of the 9mm ammunition caused sales to be disappointingly low. Manufacture was discontinued in 1927 after about 20,306 were produced.

Firearms chambered for 9mm rimfire ammunition have been manufactured in Europe but the Model 36 was the only shotgun ever made in the USA that was chambered for the round. For ammunition, try Ye Olde Western Scrounger, there is a link to him on our links page. If the scrounger can't help, you may want to try to search the internet for a European source since the cartridge appears to have been more popular there.

The blue book lists Model 36 values between $205 and $640 depending on condition. Marc


# 10279 - Sears 22 Value
6/29/2004
John London Ohio

Sears - 3T-A 273.2400 - 22 - Blue -

Ted Williams 22 Bought in 1970 at a Sears dept. store, has a horse shoe on it with the letters S and P inside shoe one on top of thee other Value? a lady I know wanted me to find out if she should get said weapon insured, her father passed back in may and her mother gave the rifle back to her, because she bought it for her father for fathers day in 1970. I do not know but from talking to her I would guess it is something like the Winchester Model 90 1890. Thank You

Answer:
John, references indicate that Sears marketed the Winchester Model 190 as their 3T-A / 273.2400. The 190 was a semi-automatic rifle chambered in .22 Short, .22 Long, or .22 Long Rifle with a 15 shot tubular magazine beneath the barrel. Model 190 receivers were made of aluminum alloy and stocks were, unchecked hardwood finished to resemble walnut. The 190 was manufactured from about 1967 to 1980. Winchester firearms of this vintage have never been popular with collectors. Values for Model 190 rifles are modest, I often see them being offered for sale at gunshows for under $100.00. Value for your friend's rifle bearing the Sears brand name will be even lower. In my opinion, there is no need to purchase extra insurance. Marc


# 6951 - Newton Baker- Gunsmith?
6/29/2004
Nancy Hampton NJ

Blue -

MY ancestors Newton Brigham Bacon Sr from Cambridge, Mass and his son Newton Brigham bacon Jr from Flint Michigan and ooster ass are listed as gun makers in several census reports. Is there any record among gun collectors of the type of firearms they made?

Answer:
Nancy- Frank Sellers "American Gunsmiths" does not have a listing for either man. I suspect that while they may have been gun makers, that they worked for someone else, and therefore would not have made complete guns which could be identifiable as their work. John Spangler


# 6954 - Remington Muzzleloaders
6/26/2004
Tom, Appleton WI

Remington? - Muzzle Loader - Short - Blue -

Any information on muzzle loaders? I imagine there are a lot of different types. Just want a general history and maybe a list of know manufacturers!

Answer:
Tom- Remington made some complete muzzle loading rifles, including several for military contracts. However a large part of Remington's business in the early years was the manufacture of barrels which were sold to gunsmiths who made them into complete rifles. Many of the barrels bore Remington markings, but that only identifies who made the barrel. As far as identification of the makers who may have used Remington barrels, that would be nearly impossible, even if barrel sales info exists in the Remington Archives. Many sales would have been to wholesalers and some to individual makers. As the most expensive and durable part of a gun, it is also likely that many barrels were recycled and used in addtional guns in later years. John Spangler


# 6981 - Chrome Plated K98k Mauser Rifle
6/26/2004
John ,Myrtle Beach, SC

Mauser - K98 - 8mm - 23 - Don't Know - 3962 -

byf 42 This gun was giving to me by the son of a WW II vet that brought it back from Germany. The finish on this gun appears to be chrome. I was curious if there were any Mausers manufactured by Germany with the chrome finish, or was this done state side. All serial No.s match, so the gun appears all original, except maybe this finish. Local gunsmith not sure, but thinks it may have been done at home for local VFW parades, etc. Thanks for any help.

Answer:
John- I agree with your local gunsmith. There is a very slim chance that it was plated for use by a German ceremonial unit and captured in this condition, but there is also a chance that space aliens will abduct you tonight. After WW2, it seems that chrome (or nickel) plated guns were quite a status symbol, and the young men (we did not let girls fight wars back in those more genteel and civilized days) who brought home souvenirs thought it was cool to get their guns chrome plated. While we collectors today may be aghast at this desecration of nice old guns, the guys who had been shot at and watched their buddies die had every right to do whatever they wanted with them. John Spangler


# 10177 - Refinish My HP?
6/26/2004
Jeff Douglas, Wyoming

Fabrique National D'Ames De Belgique - p-35 High Power?? - 9MM - 4'' maybe 4 1/2''?? - Blue - 56691 with a funny cursive L at the end -

There are Three stamps that appear to be an Eagle or Thunderbird with outstretched wings holding a Nazi Swastika 1.) on slide 2.)above trigger guard 3.) Behind Cuerro on the name stamp. There are also three places where WaA140 is stamped with an upside down Eagle holding the swastika. 1.) on end of barrel 2.) Above trigger guard 3.)behind Belgique on name stamp. There are also some marks on the butt where the clip slides in. One looks like a KF with the K sitting lower but both capital. On the trigger guard the is a stamp that shows MP. All the serial numbers I have found match and I also have the original ( I would assume ) shoulder harness and two clips. I recently was given this gun by my father in his will, I had planned on having it reblued when a friend cautioned me to do some homework on it because rebluing might detract from the value. So I guess I am curious what it may be worth and if it really is a Nazi issue p-35. Last but not least yes I am a frequent contributor to the NRA friends of the NRA and the rocky mountain Elk Foundation trying to do my part in keeping the things I hold dear around for future generations. Thank You

Answer:
Jeff, it sounds like you inherited a good pistol. The markings that you describe tell me it was manufactured under Nazi occupation. The WaA140 markings can either be on what collectors call type 2 Hi-Power pistols with tangent sights or type 3 Hi-Power pistols with fixed 50-meter sights. To learn more about pistol types and W.W.II German markings you can search our older questions, I have answered several questions about this model in the past.

There is good collector interest in Nazi marked Hi-Power pistols that are in original condition. I am glad that you asked for advise before having the pistol refinished because doing so would ruin all interest for a collector and lower value by at least one half. I would recommend that instead of having your pistol refinished, give it a good cleaning and apply a light coat of oil to prevent rust. Marc


# 10281 - Drill Purpose P-14
6/22/2004
Matt, Greenfield, ME

Remington - P-14 - .303 - Blue - 239393 -

I believe this is a Pattern 14 rifle. It has been de-milled and there is a piece of steel welded into the receiver. It has the marking CAI ST. A. VT. and P14 303 USA stamped on the top of the barrel. I was wondering what the first part of it meant. It also has DP stamped all over it. I'm assuming that it probably meant ''drill practice,'' but wasn't sure. I would judge its condition at approx. 65-70%, but that is my ammeter opinion. I was hoping someone could tell me more about it. If it is worth anything in parts, should I keep it complete, what would be a general price for it, or where could I found out its value? It's been collecting dust for some time and I need to do something with it. It was given to me as a child by my great uncle who was in the second war. Thank you so much for your help.

Answer:
Matt, your rifle started life as a British Pattern 14. You did not mention the maker, there were three and they identified their product by letters on the receiver: W = Winchester; RE = Remington; ERA = Eddystone (a Remington subsidiary).

Your rifle has been deactivated. The DP stands for Drill Purpose. This designation was used by the Brits when a rifle was converted to non-firing status, but was still used for training (drill).

The Brits had been on the verge of adopting a 7-mm rifle called the Pattern 13 when the W.W.I broke out. To avoid two separate sources of ammunition the Pattern 13 was rechambered for the standard British 303 cartridge and the name was changed to the Pattern 14. The Brits then contracted with Winchester and Remington to manufacture this rifle. Several hundred thousand were made and shipped to Britain. Most did not see combat because the Brits decided they could produce enough SMLE's to meet the demand. The Pattern 14 had a reputation for superb accuracy, and some were put into service as sniper rifles.

I remember that 5 or 10 years ago DP Pattern 14 rifles were selling for $25 each. Because your rifle has been deactivated, its only real value to gun collectors is for replacement parts. Marc


# 10283 - Fix FIE?
6/22/2004
Adam, Martinez, CA

? - E15 - .22 LR - 4 inches - Don't Know - E60034 -

F.I.E Corp-Miami, FLA. I don't know to much about guns. Any help would be great. Found an old gun in my fathers house. I would like to find out who the maker is and get parts if available or at least know if it is worth anything. The main cylinder grooves are worn. This causes the camber and the barrel not to line up correctly. Gun is old looking. Blk steel with a white bone like handle. It has a slide on the full length of the barrel that ejects the shells one by one. It can hold six bullets. Thanks for the help

Answer:
References tell me that F.I.E. E15 revolvers were manufactured in Brescia, Italy and imported by Firearms International (F.I.E.) of Miami. Most of the firearms that F.I.E imported were inexpensive and low quality. I doubt that the cylinder lock-up was very tight even when the gun was new. Value for this type of revolver in perfect condition is in the $50 range. My advise would be for you to turn it into the police for destruction and not waste money on parts or repairs. Marc


# 6985 - Spanish Mauser Carbine
6/22/2004
Brent- Florida USA

Fabrique De Armas - Carbine - 7MM - 16-17 - Blue - 7426 -

Oviedo 1906 with a crown proof mark over it. Wood stock, Curved bolt handle-Mauser type action I believe this is a short carbine made by Fabrique National'. The blue book nor any firearm manual that I have seen lists this rifle. Any information is appreciated. I am a collector and NRA member and donor that is totally stumped on this one. Brent@tmtorlando.com

Answer:
Brent- Than you for your support of the NRA defending our gun rights. Fabrique National is the Belgian place that makes fine quality guns of all types. However, they are not connected in any way with the Spanish military facility Fabrica de Armas Oviedo in Oviedo, Spain. Oviedo made a lot of different variations of the Model 1893 and later 1916 Mauser rifles in 7mm. You probably have a Spanish Model 1895 carbine. Robert Ball's excellent "Mauser Military Rifles of the World" has nearly complete coverage of every type of Mauser made and is an essential reference ofr someone at all interested in that field. John Walter's "Rifles of the World" is less detailed, but covers all types of military and commercial rifles, with tidbits on oddball guns you may not find covered anywhere else. We usually have these on our book catalog page, or you can order them from other sources, but we recommend both very highly. John Spangler


# 6990 - Springfield 1873 Trapdoor
6/19/2004
Andy Chatham Virginia

Springfield - 1873 Trapdoor - 45/70 - 32 1/2'' - Blue - 72879 -

US Springfield 1873 with eagle clinching arrows on right side of the breechblock. The barrel length is from the tip of gun to the firing pin, which is 32 1/2''. On top of trapdoor US model 1873, on the butt plate it has 21 over US. It's missing the ramrod. Overall this gun is in wonderful shape , the hammer still has very strong tension , the sights are flip up with a slide elevation sight on it. Also has a clip toward the front , maybe for a sling or bayonet , no back clip A gentleman in his 90's has asked me to find out what the history and value of this rifle is...any information would be appreciated. Regards, Andy

Answer:
Andy- You have a Model 1873 .45-70 "Trapdoor" rifle, made about 1876-1877. These were widely used in the Indian Wars, as well as al the other assignments of the U.S. Army in that period. Value depends on condition and the extent of any refinishing or repairs done over the last 125 years. As a rough ballpark, my guess is that it would be in the $400-1000 range maybe more or less depending on condition. The missing cleaning rod will hurt it a little bit. All correct Model 1873 rifles are hard to find with original finish, much harder than the later M1879 or 1884, and values are therefore a bit higher. John Spangler


# 6995 - SA Star And Arrow Markings On Rifle
6/19/2004
Sherry, Oak Hill, WV , US

Nickel -

1939 Star on stock with arrow inside of star I purchased an army issued bolt action rifle, listed on the stock is the year 1939, with a star above the year with an arrow inside, on the side of the stock there are the letters , SA inside a square. I am wanting to know if anyone knows what kind of rifle this is and from what country it is.

Answer:
Sherry- Your rifle is a Russian made "Mosin Nagant" which was made at the arsenal is Ishvesk, Russia, and then later captured by Finland (probably during the "Winter War" 1940-41). The arrow is the traditional symbol for Ishvesk, the star is that for Communist Russia, and SA is the abbreviation for the Finnish words that translate to roughly "Finnish government property". These rifles have been very common on the collector market since the collapse of the evil empire. Once the Commies discovered capitalism, they decided to sell millions of obsolete Mosin Nagant rifles to crazy Americans who pay cash money for stuff they do not need. The rifles that came from Finland tend to be in better condition than the Russian surplus, and many of the Finnish rifles were rebuilt with new barrels and sights and are reportedly quite accurate, and some are in like new condition. Value depends on exact variation and condition. At various times some of the common Mosin Nagants have sold for as little as $19.95. John Spangler


# 10285 - Remington 51
6/19/2004
Kurt, Kansas City, MO

Remington-UMC - 51 - .380 - Blue - PA16743 -

I have recently inherited this pistol and cannot find much info on it in internet searches. This gun has been well kept and is in excellent condition. What can you tell me about it, or where could I go for more info? Thanks!

Answer:
Kurt, instead of searching the Internet for information on your pistol, you should have followed the instructions we provide for those submitting questions and searched our previous answers before asking your question. The following information is condensed from two questions that we have answered about this model in the past.

The Remington Model 51 was designed by J. B. Pedersen who also designed the "Pedersen Device," for converting the M1903 Springfield rifle from bolt action to a semi-automatic weapon. When the Model 51 was designed, hundreds of experiments were made with hand molds to determine the correct shape, length, and pitch to provide the most nearly perfect average grip. The Remington 51 is considered to be the best-balanced, most-instinctive pointing pocket pistol ever made.

Remington manufactured the Model 51 in .32 ACP and .380 ACP calibers. Approximately 65,000 pistols were produced from 1918 to 1927 when the model was discontinued . In the opinion of many experts, the Remington M51 is the finest pocket automatic pistol ever made. Workmanship is of extremely high quality, and the pistol is well-shaped for instinctive shooting. The design utilizes a delayed blowback system to reduce the apparent recoil force, making it pleasant to shoot. The M51 has a grip safety, which also acts as a cocked indicator. If the grip safety is flush with the grip, the pistol is not cocked, if it stands out from the grip, the pistol is cocked. The safety catch on the left rear of the frame can only be set to the safe position when the hammer is cocked.

Model 51 production called for very precise machining and fitting of intricate components. Unfortunately, there were not sufficient buyers prepared to pay the extra cost which was required to build this complicated design so the pistol production was discontinued.

Blue book values for Model 51 pistols are quite high, especially for pistols chambered in the rarer but much less popular .32 caliber. Although these are excellent pistols, it has been my experience that collector demand for them is low. I usually feel lucky when I can sell a Model 51 chambered in .380 for over $300. There is much less demand for pistols chambered in .32 caliber and I usually try to avoid purchasing them. Marc


# 10242 - Re-Blued S&W M1917
6/15/2004
Denny

S&W - 1917? - 45 ACP - 5 1/2'' - Blue - 4350 -

Inspectors mark? H superimposed over GS. Under barrel marked United States Property. On butt, can make out an A and an N and possibly 1917. Patent dates on barrel of Dec. 17, 1901, Feb. 8, 1906, and Sept. 14, 1909. This revolver has been refinished blue. On crane has 4 with spaces then a 5. 3439 and below that a serial number of 4350. Barrel is pinned, fixed sights. Any info on this gun would be appreciated. Possible worth, etc. It has no lanyard hole on butt and I am surmising this is a civilian version of a military pistol.

Answer:
Denny, your revolver has the proper markings for a U.S. military issue Model 1917. "GHS" is a U.S. military inspectors mark. The initials stand for Colonel Gilbert H. Stewart, who inspected Smith & Wesson and Colt M1917 .45 Revolvers starting in 1915. Inspector's markings and U.S. property markings are not found on revolvers that were manufactured for the civilian market. M1917 U.S. military issue revolvers should have a lanyard ring on the bottom of the grip frame. Possibly the lanyard ring was removed, the markings on bottom of the butt were defaced and the hole filled at the time the revolver was refinished.

Values for original U.S. issue M1917 revolvers can go as high as $750 or more depending on condition. Since your revolver has been refinished and modified, I would estimate that value is in the $200 or less range. Marc


# 10254 - Nazi HP WaA 140
6/15/2004
Keith, Akron, Colorado

Browning - 9mm - Blue -

Tiny eagle over swastika. WaA140. I just read something on the site about collectors being interested in a gun with these markings. I was just wondering how much a gun from WWII like this would be worth.

Answer:
Keith, you are correct, Nazi marked HP pistols are often more valuable then their counterparts with no markings. The value of your pistol will depend on it's condition and which variation it is. Collectors generally recognize three types of Nazi marked Hi-Power pistols.

Early type-1 pistols have WaA613 Army acceptance stamp, commercial grade finish, walnut grips, tangent sight and a slot for a shoulder stock. Values for this type range from about $1000 to about $3000.

Type-2 pistols have WaA613, WaA103, or WaA140 acceptance stamps, commercial grade finish, walnut grips, tangent sight but no slot for a shoulder stock. Values for this type range from about $300 to over $1000.

Late war production type-03 pistols have WaA140 acceptance stamps, have a fixed 50 meter rear sight, wood or brown plastic grips, and a military grade blue finish over a progressively less highly polished surface. Values for this type range from about $200 to over $600.

Your pistol could be a type-2 or a type-3 depending on it's configuration. Let me know if you want to sell. Marc


# 6997 - Replica Colt Percussion Revolver
6/15/2004
Lee, Cannelton, Indiana

Replica Colt - 1849 Pocket - .31 - 4 In - Blue - A 563 -

Bottom of grip strap, it has FIE, ITALY, and a logo. The logo is a capital P superimposed over a slightly smaller capital R. PLEASE, I am trying to find out who manufactured this revolver so I can find parts. It was made in 1975. I know that FIE was the importer, but I need to know who made it for FIE. It has a loading lever, but also has a square back trigger guard. Please look at the logo on the bottom of the grip strap. Here is a picture of it. http://www.geocities.com/allen33700/Psmalllogoa.JPG Thank You Very Much Lee

Answer:
Lee- Most of the replica Colts were made in Italy by Uberti or Pedersoli. The good news is that most of the small easily broken parts of the percussion Colts (and copies) are interchangeable between the Army, Navy and Single Action models- such as screws, the flat bolt/sear spring, hand, bolt, etc. You can try Dixie Gun Works or anyone else who has replica guns and parts. They are pretty reasonably priced, so if they do not work, it is not a big loss. John Spangler


# 7004 - Springfield Model 1866 Serial Numbers
6/12/2004
Al, Carmichael, CA

Springfield - 1866 - .50 - 36.6 - Blue - UNK -

1866 and Eagle on breech block. Trapdoor model. Where would I look for the ser.# on this model?

Answer:
Al- Sit down, take a deep breath and relax. You will not find a serial number on the Model 1866 rifles as they did not have any. The Model 1868s were the first U.S. rifles made at Springfield that were serial numbered. Model 1870s seem to have NOT been numbered (although a few have numbers) but the Model 1873 .45-70 trapdoors and all subsequent Springfield rifles were serial numbered. Anyone interested in learning all about trapdoor rifles of any type should visit the superb site run by my friend Al Frasca at http://trapdoorcollector.com John Spangler


# 9992 - Golden State Replacement Stock
6/12/2004
John Pgh. Pa.

Golden State Arms - Centurion - 30.06 - 22'' - Blue - Z-36481 -

Where can I find a replacement stock for this rifle?

Answer:
John, Golden State Arms Corporation of Pasadena, California, marketed rifles in the 1960s and 1970s. Golden State Centurion rifles ranged in quality from the basic Model 100 which was a plane rifle with a blind three-cartridge magazine, to more elaborate models with fancy wood, checkered stocks and hinged floor plates.

If I remember correctly, Centurion rifles were built around the Spanish Santa Barbara 98 action. For a replacement stock, most after market 98 Mauser sporter stocks should work, but they will probably require a little fitting. Marc


# 7006 - Winchester Model 54 Military Sniper Rifle
6/12/2004
Brian Quilcene WA.

Winchester - 54 30 Gov 06 - 30-06 - 25? - Nickel - 33997 -

uderside of barrel has number 1906 stamped on it. Serial number on receiver and bolt is 33997 barrel is stamped nickel steel My son claims this is a military sniper rifle and is worth in excess of $1000.00 Is he right.

Answer:
Brian- Your son is wrong, or I am wrong. The Model 54 was a pretty good bolt action high power rifle, which was later modified and renamed the Model 70, one of the great bolt action rifles of all time. However, no Model 54s were purchased for military use as sniper rifles. At one point there may have been an effort by Winchester to convince the military that they would be suitable for that, but none were purchased. Later in WW2, however, some Model 70s were purchased and used by the U.S. Marine Corps as sniper rifles with a 8 power Unertl target type scope attached. However, that is another long story best understood by reviewing Peter Senich's books on sniping rifles and Norm Chandler's "Death From Afar" series. John Spangler


# 10131 - Nazi Marked Unique With Holster
6/8/2004
Kent, Little Rock, Arkansas

D'Armes Des Pyrenees - Unique - 7.65 - Blue -

Nazi eagle and swastika on barrel. My question involves the special markings. My father was a medic in WWII and brought back this gun as well as a Steyr .25 caliber. I'm assuming that the markings make the gun more valuable, but how much. It has the original clip, but the holster has disintegrated.

Answer:
Kent, W.W.II vintage Unique pistols that were manufactured during the French collaboration with the Nazis should be marked with German military acceptance stamps and test proofs. The acceptance stamps will be on the upper right side of the frame to the rear of the right grip and the test proofs will be on the left side of the barrel one inch back from the muzzle.

Values for Nazi marked Unique pistols can go as high as $550 depending on condition. Values for pistols with no Nazi marks are usually under $200. If the holster is Nazi marked and it is not too far gone, it may be worth conserving. Nazi marked holsters for this model are uncommon. Marc


# 10194 - Parlor Gun
6/8/2004
Richard, Pittsburgh, Pa.

Unknown - Unknown - 22 ? - 3 1/2 '' - Nickel - only # on piece is 42 -

Right side of barrel is stamped GERMANY Bottom of barrel has 3 markings, Top one looks like a house, Middle one looks like a crown, Bottom one looks like a capital U. Pistol has a Derringer type grip with a 3 1/2'' barrel. Single shoot. My farther took this piece off of a German officer during WW1. The officer had it hanging on a string around his neck hidden under his tunic. Can you identify this piece and tell me if its of any value?

Answer:
Richard, to re-state your question, you are requesting accurate identification and pricing information for a small nickel plated, single shot derringer like handgun that was reported to have been taken form a German officer in WWI. The handgun might be .22 caliber and it is marked with a house, "GERMANY", and crown over "U".

It sounds like you have a "Zimmerzchutzen" or "parlor pistol". These were used for indoor target shooting in the late 1800s and early 1900s. I am unable to identify the house stamping. The crown over "U" stamping is a German proof mark, and the "Germany" stamping is probably a U.S. import marking. Firearms imported for sale in the USA were stamped with the country of origin in accordance with the McKinley Tariff Act of 1891. The McKinley act required the country of origin to be stamped on all imported items. This marking seems to be slightly inconsistent with your family's history.

Collector interest for this type of pistol is not high, I usually see them selling at gunshows in the $100 to $200 range. Marc


# 7023 - Winchester Model 1873 Rifle With Fancy Features
6/8/2004
Jim, Albany, NY

Winchester - Model 1873 - 44-40 - 20 In - Blue - 88370 A -

Octagon Barrel, Fancy checkered stock, Receiver is a gold or copper color. I am trying to estimate the gun's value. My research indicates that the value of the Model 1873 can vary depending special items. For example the Model 1873 Carbine is supposed to have a 20 in round barrel and the Model 1873 rifle is supposed to have a 24 in octagon barrel. Mine has a 20 in octagon barrel. The checkered stock is also mentioned as a item adding value. The gun is in very good useable condition. Can you help me with the value?

Answer:
Jim- Winchester was in business to make money, and if a customer wanted something special on their rifle, Winchester would do everything possible to provide it, at a price. Such "special order" features are highly prized by collectors, if they are factory original. However, if they are a result of Bubba and his buddies then the value is almost nothing. A real Winchester expert can tell the difference by looking at the gun, but the best proof is a "factory letter" from the original Winchester records now on file at the Cody Firearms Museum, in the Buffalo Bill Historical Center. For a very modest cost they will provide a letter stating what information is available on any gun they have listed (unfortunately the records are not complete), and this usually includes the date shipped and a brief description of the model and any special features. The checkered stock and gold colored receiver and octagon barrel sounds like it may be a true special order gun, and well worth checking out. (See our links page for a link to the Cody Firearms Museum so you can order a letter). Value will depend on originality, and condition. We recently handled the sale of a special order rifle that was a really beautiful gun when it was new, but had been poorly stored and damaged by improper cleaning, making the value about half of what it might have been. It still brought a pretty good price from a collector who was delighted to get it. You may want to spend a little more money and have a formal appraisal by an experienced dealer. You might want to check with Herb Glass in Bullville, NY Hope it turns out to be a treasure.. John Spangler


# 6574 - Colt Single Action " Pinched Frame"
6/5/2004
Otto

Colt - 73 Army - .44 - 7.5 - Rusty - NONE -

Pinched Frame Cylinder .44 Old Army ''P'' on frame Barrel 1st Model Where can I find information on early army experimentals

Answer:
Otto- Colt Single Actions are a very complex field with dozens of books on the many variations. John Kopec seems to be the acknowledged authority on the military versions, but the other books may also have some good information (and some may have outdated guesses). I know that Scott Meadows is also working on a book on the early military revolvers, and I have the utmost respect for his research and writing. He also answers questions in the Gun Report magazine, so you may want to ask there. John Spangler


# 6578 - Flintlock Barrel Length
6/5/2004
Charles Toledo Oh

Traditions - Deer Hunter - 50 Cal - 26 In - Blue -

None The question I have is not about this weapon but history of flintlock rifles. Most are called long rifles but when did the barrels of these rifles start to be shortened. Thank You

Answer:
Charles- Good question. The answer is probably a mix of fashion as well as technology and lifestyle. The American long rifle evolved from the German Jaeger hunting rifle. I think that the longer barrels in America were popular due to a belief that the longer barrels would work better (due to higher velocity with more time for powder to burn, and greater accuracy?) Of course, on the American frontier, the long rifle was as much an instrument for self defense against Indian attacks as a hunting arm, so the added weight and length may have been more tolerable if one's life was at stake. The American taste for long barrels seems to have lasted until shortly after the adoption of percussion ignition, say about 1830-1835. This was about the same time that the traditional frontier areas along the east coast to the Appalachians became well settled, and Indian problems (or the Indians themselves) were eliminated. The frontier moved westward to the Ohio and Mississippi river Valleys and out onto the great plains. Instead of heavily wooded, hilly areas where most movement was on foot or restricted to a relatively small area, the frontiersmen now could see longer distances (searching for game or danger) and movement on horseback became standard. It would only take a few hours on horseback carrying a long rifle before both horse and rider would agree that it would be a more comfortable ride if the rifle were shortened a great deal so that there was less muzzle swinging around. Also, the rifle would be better balanced to carry across the saddle. This is about the time that the "mountain men and trappers began to hunt in the Rockies. The quality of gunpowder was greatly improved through better technology and producers like E.I. Dupont, so maximum velocity from a muzzle loader could be achieved with a shorter barrel than in the past. Anyway, that is my theory on why the barrel length became shorter. John Spangler


# 10196 - Mauser P.38 Serial Numbers
6/5/2004
ken Arkansas

Mauser - P-38 - 9mm - Blue - MIXED -

I have recently purchased a 1944 Mauser P-38, my question is the are script letters next to certain serial marks..''t'' and an ''r'' also a number 4 on the barrel sight..was wondering what these were for? The German military marks are all in good order, but did not know what these stated.

Answer:
Ken, the scriptive "t" and "r" stampings are part of your pistol's serial number. Wartime German P.38 serial numbers were limited to 4 digits. Walther and Mauser stamped the year of manufacture on the left-hand side of the slide. Serial numbers were reset at the beginning of each year to number 1. When the number 9999 was reached a letter suffix was added starting with "a".

Serial numbers were stamped on Mauser P.38s in several places:

  • On the slide just forward of the safety lever
  • On the frame above the trigger
  • On the front of the barrel group below the round section of the barrel.
  • The last three digits are on the base of the barrel locking block

All of the serial numbers including their letter suffix should match. If the numbers are different, you have what collectors call a parts gun, worth significantly less than a gun with all matching numbers.

I was unable to find any information about the marking on your front sight, possibly it is some sort of type or range designation. Marc


# 9993 - MAB 25
6/2/2004

MAB - Echasa - 25 - 4'' - Blue -

On Grips Right Under MAB The Word Espanola Is Seen In Smaller Letters Cannot Find Any Information Of It's Origin.

Answer:
MAB was a French company who began manufacture of firearms in 1921, the letters "MAB" are an acronym for Manufacture d' Armes de Bayonne. From 1940 to 1944 during the French collaboration with Germany, MAB produced weapons for German military and police. After the war, production of firearms for international commercial and military sales was resumed.

MAB pistols with Echasa-Eibar (Espaiia) slide markings were manufactured under contract by Echave y Arizmendi of Eibar, Spain and marketed under the MAB name. Marc


# 9994 - Firearms International 22
6/2/2004
Robin, Carrollton, OH

Firearms Int'l Corp. - .22 - 16.5'' - Blue - B41882 -

The hubby had bought this survival rifle a decade ago from one of his friends, however, we can't find any information at all on it other than it is marked Firearms Int'l Corp. We were wondering about its age and value. Many Thanks! Robin

Answer:
Robin, I was not able to find much information about your rifle, my guess is that you have what Firearms International called the "Para Rifle" model. The Para Rifle was a .22 LR caliber, takedown, paramilitary looking rifle with matte black military type finish and tubular stock that housed an eleven round magazine. A total of 8000 Para Rifles were originally manufactured in Europe. 5000 Para Rifles were fitted with German made telescopic sights and sold to the Italian government for use as military training rifles. The remaining Para Rifles were imported into the USA (without scopes) between 1985 and 1988 where they were marketed in green cloth cases that had the word "takedown" stenciled on them in white letters. Para Rifle values in the blue book range from $85 to $250 depending on condition. Marc


# 6579 - M1911A1 Remington Rnad ANAD 1072
6/2/2004
John Baghdad, Iraq

Remington Rand 1911 A1 - Remington Rand - .45 - 4'5 - Blue - ANAD 1072 -

SA Property of US Army Captured Weapon, .45 cal Can you help with the history of this weapon? I would like to know where and when it was made, this is considered ''spoils of war'' Captured in Baghdad, Iraq'03.Thanks!!jr

Answer:
John- Thank you for your service to our country. We must never forget that all those "war trophy souvenirs" that current and former generations of soldiers brought home are not "free" but paid for with the sacrifices of the troops who got them, and their fallen comrades. They earned them the hard way, and have personal value far beyond what some arm chair collector might proclaim. I cannot accurately answer your question, even after searching Charles Clawson's definitive book on the .45 automatics. Although the original maker's name appeared on the slide, the slides are easily and extremely often) switched between guns. The maker is easily identified from the serial number. However, in this case, it appears that the serial number is not visible. (It should be on the right hand side just below the slide between the trigger and the grip.) The SA probably indicates rework at Springfield Armory at some point. ANAD is the abbreviation commonly used for Anniston Army Depot, a U.S. military facility that probably did some overhaul work on .45 automatics, and perhaps the 1072 is for October 1972. At any time from original manufacture to a 1972 overhaul it would have had a parkerized finish, not blue. If it is blue, it could have been done after arriving in Iraq, perhaps as part of a foreign aid shipment, or captured somewhere and then moved in commercial (or clandestine) trade channels until it ended up in Iraq. The last US military procurement of the M1911A1 was in 1945, so that helps with the date. For the admin folks doing paperwork, they can read REMINGTON RAND and ANAD 1072 and that will give them enough info to fill in make and serial number blocks on whatever form they need to fill out. Don't confuse them with other stuff. However, BATF may take a dim view of the obliterated serial number once in the states. John Spangler


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