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# 11092 - Spencer .22 Civil War Bushwacker Rifle
7/30/2005
Dan Hartford MO

Spencer - Single Shot - 22 - 19inches - Blue - NONE -

Very old It Says The 22 Spencer Pat applied for We believe this was 1 of the experimental Spencers Used in civil war as Bushwacker Gun on horse back.????

Answer:
Dan- A few facts often spoil a great story. In this case, "The .22 Spencer" has nothing to do with the Civil War, or Christopher M. Spencer who invented the 7 shot lever action repeater used by cavalry troops in the Civil War. Except for the name, The .22 Spencer is identical to the Keystone, the .22 Marvel, and the Stevens Model 16 Crackshot. All were made by Stevens between 1900 and 1913. (Remember, the Civil War ended in 1865.) The Crackshot name was used on those sold under the Stevens brand name, while the Spencer, Keystons and Marvel were 'house brand" names sold by other retailers, such as Sears Roebuck who sold the Keystone. John Spangler


# 11068 - Stevens With Sherman's Army?
7/30/2005
PATTI , HILLIARD, FL

J STEVENS A T CO. - 1864 - 25 - 19 3/4'' - Don't Know - 2082 -

MADE IN CHICAPEE FALLS , MASS. USA PATTEN 9/6/1864 My father has this gun. He got the gun from a lady who's father was with Sherman through the burning of Atlanta. He would like any info on the history and worth of this gun. It seems to be in good shape. He keeps in it in a metal gun safe.

Answer:
Patti- The markings "J. Stevens A[rms] & T[ool] Company were used by Stevens on guns made between 1886 and 1916. It is very possible that the prior owner was a lady whose father was part of Sherman's Army when they conducted urban renewal operations in Atlanta and in other rebellious regions, before presenting President Lincoln with the gift of the liberated (or conquered, depending on your perspective) city of Savannah at Christmas 1864.. However the lady probably also drank mile and ate vegetables. None of these factors have anything to do with this gun. Stevens made many different models during the 1886-1916 period and we would need a lot more info to figure out exactly which one this might be. Sorry we cannot help more than that. John Spangler


# 11647 -
7/30/2005
Sonny, Florida

Hi Standard/Sentinel Deluxe - 22 - 6 inches - Nickel - 2140032 -

Sentinel Deluxe - Different marking than standard Sentinel. What is the year of manufacture? I would also appreciate any other information on this gun, or any other website referrals. Thanks, Sonny

Answer:
Sonny, Sentinel Deluxe Revolvers were manufactured from 1965 to 1974, they had a square butt, weighed 24 or 26 ounces depending on barrel length, and could be ordered with choice of blue or nickel finish, and 4 or 6 inch barrel. The Sentinel Deluxe was similar to Sentinel except that it had an adjustable rear sight and a wider trigger. My references indicate that your revolver was manufactured in 1969. A good web site to visit would be the High Standard Collectors Association, there is a link on the OldGuns.net links page. Marc


# 10896 - Italian 44 Mag
7/26/2005
Michael

44 Mag - Revolver - 44 Mag -

'Italy', (Case hardened steel frame, Fitchburg, Mass) Question: When was this gun made (approx.) It looks like an old colt 45 ... Is it a clone? What is the quality of the make and the value of this gun? (It is in excellent condition).

Answer:
Michael - the markings you describe are those found on modern import reproduction revolvers made in Italy since about 1960, and sold under a wide variety of brand names. While not especially valuable, these could be an interesting collecting specialty because there are lots of variations around at very reasonable prices. Without knowing the maker ('44Mag.' is the caliber not the maker) or being able to examine the revolver, I can not tell you anything about it's quality. Some of the Italian imports are really nice guns and others are just so-so. I would advise you to have it checked buy a gunsmith before firing. Value for most of these guns is in the $150 to $350 range. Marc


# 10894 - IPSC Commander
7/26/2005
George

Colt - Commander - 45 - Blue - 70BS80461 -

V stamped on trigger gaurd, right side. I was wondering if you could date this gun for me. As well as any other useful information such as, history, current value, and where to find factory parts for it. Is there a model number? The gun's previous owner used it in IPSC competitions, so it has been customized, but the frame and slide are a macthed set. The barrel reads (colt .45 auto) on top, but does'nt have the horse on it. so I'm guessing that it's after market? I have been using it as my work gun for the past 20 years and I'm ready to trade in on a lighter model. I've had some interest from collectors, but no one wants to put a value on it. Any informatin you could supply would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Answer:
George, I don't believe that there is a model number for your pistol, Commander is the only model that I have ever called them by.

The Colt Commander was introduced in 1949, in response to a request for a lighter pistol, to fire the .45 ACP cartridge. Originally receivers were machined from a high-tensile aluminum alloy. Slide and barrel remained in steel, but were reduced in length, resulting in a handy pistol with a weight of 26 ounces. The Combat Commander was introduced in 1971 because despite Colt's assurances to the contrary, the aluminum receiver of the 'Commander' wore more rapidly than some owners liked. The 'Combat Commander' returned to the use of steel, but tried as best it could to keep the weight down (weight was about 33 ounces).

I don't have serial number information for Commanders with serial numbers higher than 70SC57900, but I can tell you is that your pistol was manufactured after 1978.

Customized 1911 types are hard to put a value on. There are many modifications that can be made to a 1911 pistol and the value will vary depending upon which modifications have been made, and the quality of the work done. Then you have to find a buyer who is willing to pay more for the modifications. When I see a Colt pistol that has been modified I usually think what a shame it is that someone ruined a perfectly good classic Colt. I am surprised that collectors have shown an interest in a customized IPSC gun. Without seeing your pistol I can only give you a value range, my GUESS is that value will be between $400 and $750.

Parts should not be hard to find, most of them (except for the barrel, frame and the slide) should be interchangeable with any Colt 1911/A1. Colt parts should be available from the factory, but good quality after market parts from a quality manufacturer should work just as well. Marc


# 11060 - M1860 Sword With Bear Decoration
7/26/2005
Mike-Asheville, N.C.

E.A. Armstrong M1860 Field & Staff Officers Model 1860 Field & Staff Officers Sword - Blue -

I have a Model 1860 field and Staff Officers Sword with ''E.A.Armstrong Mfg. Co. 300 Wabash Ave. Chicago on one side of the ricasso and what looks to be a bear or some other animal on the other side 0of the ricasso. I believe the sword was made between 1892-1915.Could you supply any further info?

Answer:
Mike- From the street address, we can pin the date down to the period 1899-1902. Armstrong and similar companies at that time were making small quantities of military uniform items, consistent with the small size of our armed forces. The bulk of their business came from veterans and fraternal organizations. That would include the Grand Army of the Republic, United Confederate Veterans, Sons of Veterans, United Spanish War Veterans, and the like. Also, the even larger number of quasi religious or secret societies such as Knights of Columbus, Knights of Pythias, the KKK, and sundry critter oriented lodges- Moose, Elk, possum, bear, gerbils, or whatever. By simply switching a few mountings, the standard M1860 staff & field sword could be customized for just about any group with its own secret symbols, mascots, colors, or whatever. I believe that the book on the Ames Sword Company illustrates a large number of these, so you may be able to identify it from that. If the bear is a walking figure, it may relate to California and be a militia piece, or some local Bear cub scouts or something else no one has never heard of...not unusual for things Californian. John Spangler


# 11048 - Parris-Dunn Training Rifle
7/23/2005
Thomas Brookings South Dakota

Parris-Dunn - Blue -

It says Parris-Dunn US Navy mark I on the butt of the gun Hi I am the great-grandson of W.G.Dunn who was The president of Parris-Dunn before he sold out to Parris and I was wondering if you knew where I may be able to find one of my great grandfathers training guns because I have found it quite hard to get a hold of one it would greatly help me thank you for you time.

Answer:
Thomas- I wish we could help you out finding one of these for its sentimental value. We have had probably a dozen or more over the years, and I still see them fairly often. However, most on the market today are so badly abused that I don't think you would like them. Keep checking, they are out there. John Spangler


# 11047 - Revolution Or 1812 French Or Maryland Musket
7/23/2005
Christopher, San Diego, California

Musket - Charleville - .69 - 41 11/16 Inches - Other - NONE -

''Maubeuge'' on one sideplate; initials '' IH '' on the other I've a bit of a mystery on my hands. I'm looking for an authority on ''Charleville'' muskets and, more specifically, someone who might have knowledge of the inspector's cartouches or markings on such muskets. I have in my possession a Charleville musket with the initials '' IH '' on one sideplate (''Maubeauge'' on the other). An information tag that came with the weapon when I obtained it states that the musket was ''... made by Isaac Harris of Savage, Maryland, in 1776.'' I have found numerous references to Mr. Harris in the Maryland State archives: he was, in fact, the appointed ''Armourer to the Troops Stationed in Annapolis, Maryland,'' and records show he worked on such ''Musquets''. But have also been led to believe that the initials are those of an inspector at one of the French arsenals where the musket was originally constructed. Having obtained a list of the personnel for both the Maubeuge and Charleville arsenals from a French source, however, I see no individual listed whose name had the initials '' IH .'' [see photo collection below] ( I've been told that '' IH '' was a marking used by Captain Issac Hull of ''Old Ironsides.'' I can't imagine he bought this thing in Annapolis, Maryland -- a few miles from Savage -- when the Constitution re-supplied in that city on its way to fight the HMS Guerriere. The mind boggles. ) I have already referenced Flayderman's, and been in contact or correspondence with: Mr. James Whisker (a Maryland specialist); Mike D'Ambra (a local dealer specializing in such arms); the Mus‚e de l'Ardenne in Charleville, France; the Conservation du Mus‚e de l'Arm‚e, in Paris; and the Imperial War Museum in England. So far to little avail. ANY lead -- individual, museum, record -- that might help me resolve this issue would be greatly appreciated. Photographs, online: http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4256342&a=31496899&f Musket length: 57 1/4 inches Barrel length: 41 11/16 inches Maubeuge marking on the right sideplete, initials ' IH ' on the left side Brass repair with what appear to be hand-made, square-head nails. Caliber believed to be .69 THANK you.

Answer:
Christopher- I commend you on the amount of research you have already done, and Jim Whisker and Mike D'Ambra are both good guys who know quite a lot about arms of this period. However, there is one important point to consider before digging much deeper. In the 18th century it was quite common to use the letter "I" in place of the letter "J" and while there are not a lot of guys around with names beginning with I, there are a lot beginning with J. That casts some doubt on the correctness of the IH being associated with Isaac Harris. Also, the folks at the French Arsenal at Maubeauge were not yet supplying arms to the rebellious colonists in 1776, and there were not huge stocks of French arms in the colonies from which to get locks to use on locally made muskets. The French had traditionally been antagonists rather than allies of Britain and their American colonies. French muskets were made in a bewildering variety with different model dates, and I think it is highly likely that you have a standard French pattern musket that post dates 1776 when it was allegedly made. However, assuming that it is merely the 1776 date of manufacture that is in error, and that perhaps Isaac Harris worked on this much later and ended up with a French musket he repaired, or a musket he made, using a French lock, that would have been for the state of Maryland. By 1812 the States were generally very stingy with their limited supplies of arms, and reluctant to share with the federal authorities. Thus I am very skeptical that this had any part in the victory of US Frigate Constitution over HMS Guerriere on August 12, 1812.

With all that in mind, I would recommend that you study carefully the information in George Moller's American Military Shoulder Arms volumes 1 and 2 to see what you can find about Mr. Harris, and the State of Maryland's activities, as well as the numerous other unusual arms from various sources which he so thoroughly documents. If you decide to seek further information, he would need very clear and detailed photos to review at his leisure, as this sort of think cannot be sorted out with phone calls or emails.

In any case, it does sound like a nice Revolutionary-War of 1812 era musket that keeps alive the "if only it could talk" dreams of collectors. John Spangler


# 10879 - Frontier Scout With Bright Alloy Frame
7/23/2005
Tim IL

Colt - Frontier Scout - 22 L.R. - 4'' - Other - 13459Q -

There is a J stamped on the Trigger Guard I have recently inherited this Colt. I believe it to be a 1961 model, not positive though. I am wondering the value of it. Surfing the net, I've found many of the blue steel versions of this pistol, but nothing on the aluminum version I have. I have been told not many were made (??) Also, what is the J stamped on the trigger guard for...

Answer:
Tim, Colt Frontier Scout revolvers with the "Q" serial number suffix were only manufactured in 1957 and 1958. My records indicate that your revolver was manufactured in 1958. Frontier Scout Q model revolvers all had a cast aluminum frame but in some of the early versions the frame was left 'in the white', like yours is. All pistols were changed to blue finish after the first three years or production. The blue book lists values for Q series Frontier Scout revolvers between $160 and $540 depending on condition. The blue book indicates that models with the bright alloy frame are rare but they do not add a premium for them. Marc


# 10877 - Colt 25 Information
7/19/2005
Patricia, Utah

Colt - Automatic - .25 - 2'' - Blue - 171439 -

There is a number 1 stamped on the left trigger guard. Also a number 7 with a letter P inside it on the front-top of the left side of the trigger guard. Please tell us the value of this pistol and any unusual history associated with this model. We appreciate your help with this. I have looked all over the internet and finally found your Q&A section.

Answer:
Patricia, your description sounds like you have a Colt Vest Pocket Model 1908-Hammerless. If you look closely, you will probably see that the marking on your triggerguard is a VP inside a point down triangle. This marking is called the Colt "Verified Proof" mark. The Colt Vest Pocket design was originally manufactured by FN in Belgium. The FN pistols sold in large numbers before Colt took up the option on the Browning patent and started manufacturing it here in the United States. Colt manufactured about 409,000 Model 1908-Hammerless pistols from 1908 to 1946, my records indicate that your pistol was manufactured in 1917. Blue book values for Colt Vest Pocket pistols range from $195 to 615 depending on condition but I have had difficulty selling them for much over $450. Marc


# 10874 - Model 70 Carbine?
7/19/2005
Jeff

Winchester - Model 70 Carbine - .243 - 20'' - Blue - 170850 -

What is the serial number range for the pre'64 model 70's. I have read that the carbine is a post '64 model 70 as the pre '64 didn't use carbine in the name. I have a guy that is representing this gun as a pre'64 and wants $389.00 for the gun. It is in about 80% condition with a safety that doesn't work and no jeweling on the bolt and dings in the stock. Can you give an approximate value for this gun as well please?

Answer:
Jeff, post 64 Winchester Model 70 rifles began with the serial number 700,000. Before Winchester introduced their Modern model 70 Classic rifles, it was easy to spot a pre-64 Model 70 because they have a large Mauser type extractor that sticks out on the right hand side of the bolt. Now the new classic rifles have the same type of extractor so identification is a little more difficult.

Model 70 Carbines were manufactured from 1936 to 1946 and you are correct, they did not use the carbine name. All carbines were discontinued shortly after WWII. If you would have checked the OldGuns.net date of manufacture program for Winchesters, you could have found that the year of manufacture for Winchester model 70 rifle, serial number 170850 is 1950. Possibly the barrel on this rifle has been cut short or replaced. The front sight base will be an integral part of the barrel if it has not bee cut. Marc


# 11589 - Recovering A Stolen Gun
7/19/2005

I am hoping you can help me with my search. About 15 years ago my Grandfathers WW2 pistol that he took off a soldier in the invasion of Normandy was stolen. It is of extreme sentimental value to me, especially since his passing. The gun was taken from my home in Boca Raton Fl. I currently reside in New York. The gun was a pistol in its original holster with a swastika engraved on the inside of the grip. It had his marching orders stuffed in the holster where an extra magazine would be. He carved his last name "Yudow" on the butt. What do you suggest I do to find it? Are their magazines I can advertise in? .What do most avid gun owners read?. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
Sir- I regret to inform you that your quest is hopeless, short of some sort of a miracle. The best chance (and probably still under 1% at that) would be to ensure that it is listed in the "NCIC" database. That is the big computer listing of stolen property that police (are supposed to) enter all stolen property into when it is reported and (supposed to) check all recovered suspected stolen property against when they recover it. IF they get a match, they (are supposed to) contact the person who reported it stolen so they can have it returned.

There are a few problems withthis systems and the Justice Department has admitted in court that it is not considered to be a "reliable or accurate" record. Cops are busy and reportedly entry of stuff into NCIC is a low priority, and checking recovered items is even lower priority, and notifying an owner (if they have time) depends on having the current address info for the owner. All guns are entered by serial number, and make and model. If there is no serial number, or it is not known, forget it. If they get a match on the serial number then they try to see if the make and model are the same. That is often a problem as there are often many different terms used to describe a model or maker (e.g.- a German Pistole 08 "Luger" made by Mauser is marked with the factory code "byf". Chances of the owner, data entry cop and recovered property cop using the same term for the model or maker are miserable. This is further compounded by the often confusing and overlapping serial number systems used by different makers. (Especially the German practice of using four digit number blocks with letter suffixes starting over again every year!)

None of the gun magazine print lists of stolen items any more, unless they are extreme rarities or have great historical significance (stolen from a museum or something) and might be considered newsworthy.

Hopefully your dad's pistol, complete with paperwork, got sold by the thief to some unsuspecting honest collector who is taking good care of it and the paperwork with it. Sadly, it is far more likely it has been traded off for drugs or other stuff and pawned a couple of times by scumbags who don't care about any sentimental value to you or anyone else.

OF course, if somehow you were lucky enough to have it recovered, figuring out a legal way to get it to you in New York and getting through all the bureaucratic gun control registration and permit process steps may take years.

If you have the serial number and a copy of the original police report on the theft, you may want to ask that department or your local cops to just check NCIC to see if it is listed. I wish I could be more encouraging, but short of a hit on the NCIC list there no real hope for recovery. John Spangler


# 11588 - Crimean War British Pistols
7/16/2005
Dan

What hand guns did the British issue their navy and army during the Crimean war in 1854-55?

Answer:
Dan- I am not really sure, but based on what I have read here is what I can tell you. Single shot percussion pistols were still fairly common in both the Army and Navy during the Crimean War period, although nearly obsolete. These would have been considered "boarding pistols" in the Navy or "horse pistols" (to be carried in holsters on the horse's saddle) by the Cavalry and artillery.

Some percussion revolvers were being procured during the Crimean War, probably various Adams or Tranter models.

Officers provided their own sidearms and they chose a wide variety of different types, but tended to go with more modern, better made, and more expensive arms. These likely included revolvers made by Adams, Tranter (or their variants) and some Colts. It is possible that some pinfire revolvers were also used, although likely made in France or Belgium. Perhaps a few chose single shot percussion pistols, but probably very few. A.W.F. Taylorson's "The Revolver 1818-1865" would be a good book for further research. John Spangler


# 11587 - Remington Maynard Conversion Musket
7/16/2005
Mary

Remington - 1857GP64 - 73 - 41 - 1857GP64 -

Above trigger, gun is marked REMINGTON 27 VW NY (not sure-hard to read from photo) 1857 US. This is my brother's gun that was given to him by his uncle many years ago. He says it is #64 of 20,000 made and we are wondering if 1857 is the year the gun was made and what the value of this gun might be. Thank you.

Answer:
Mary- Based on the information provided, I believe that your musket is a U.S. Model 1816 .69 caliber smoothbore musket which was converted to percussion using the Maynard tape primer lock. The locks were made by Remington in Ilion, NY, with the date reflecting the date the lock was made. The actual conversion work was done at Frankford Arsenal, which included rifling the barrel and addition of a long range rear sight. The musket was probably made circa 1830-1842, although identification of the original date and place of manufacture is now impossible as that was on the old lock which was removed during conversion.

A total of 20,000 muskets were converted circa 1855-1858 using the Remington made locks. Most later saw use during the Civil War.

Numbers found on them are not serial numbers, but rather "batch" numbers to keep track of parts of individual guns for later reassembly since musket made prior to 1842 were not 100% interchangeable. The "batch" numbers seem to indicate that up to about 100 at a time that were being worked on. Sometimes there is a number on the bayonet stud near the muzzle, intended to allow matching of the bayonet to the musket to which it was fitted (again due to the non-interchangeable nature of parts prior to 1842). The overall barrel length (measured on the outside) is nominally 42 inches, but some variation is not unusual.

These had a bright polished finish, which appear to be nickel. It is possible that some were later nickel plated for parade use by veterans groups, but that would hurt the value somewhat.

Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and their Values lists these as worth $750 in NRA antique good condition and $1,650 in NRA antique fine condition. John Spangler


# 10870 - Beretta .25 Ident.
7/16/2005
Adam-Fairborn, Ohio

Beretta - Brevet ?? - 6.35 - Aprox.=2 - Blue - 47678A -

On slide: (line 1) P.BERETTA-CAL. 6.35-BREVET (line 2) GARDONE V.T.(ITALIA) On frame: (above trigger) MADE IN ITALY (rear of frame below slide) a star with what looks like a coat of arms, next to that is the date 1951, then another star with the letters PSF below it. The overall condition is pretty good with some slight surface rust on the right side of the slide. I recently purchased this handgun from a co-worker( who inherited it from her father)and she knew absolutely nothing about it. I am looking to learn everything I can about this Beretta. I'm primarily interested in the production dates, scarcity, and value. Are there any places that can offer more information on this firearm like owners manual....disassembly??? I appreciate your help.

Answer:
Adam, it is hard to guess which model of Beretta .25 pistol that you have without seeing it. There are several that might fit your description but my bet is that you have a Model 418 because of your serial number and the date (47678A and 1951).

The Model 418 was a Semi-Automatic .25 caliber pistol with 2.5 inch barrel, fixed sights and blue finish. The 418 was similar to the earlier Model 318, which was only manufactured in 1936 and 1937, but it had a loaded indicator and grip safety. Occasionally 418 pistols were manufactured with alloy frames, but steel frames were the norm. Beretta manufactured a total of 178,000 Model 418 pistols from 1937 to 1961. The serial numbers of later guns are suffixed with the letters A, B, and C. Blue book values for these pistols range from $125 to $285. Marc


# 11586 - US Marked Winchester 37 Shotgun
7/16/2005
Don

Winchester - 37 - 12 -

I have acquired a Winchester mod.37 red letter single shot 12 gauge shotgun with military markings. I am wondering how rare it is, and how collectable it is. There is some rust on it and the stock is chipped.

Answer:
Don- The model 37 was not adopted as one f the models for general military use. It is more likely that it was purchased for recreational use at the local level. Bases usually had "Welfare & Recreation" or "Special Services" type operations that provided camping gear, canoes, and sometimes hunting gear. It is also possible that it was acquired in the early days of WW2 when a "blanket purchase" order went out for just about any kind of shotgun available off the shelf from distributors and dealers, and a lot of those were non-standard types, some ending up being assigned for recreational use or war plant security, after the immediate security needs of bases were satisfied by more conventional weapons. (Note- The "red letter" refers to the Model 37 shotguns made prior to WW2 where the WINCHESTER name on the bottom of the receiver was filled with red enamel. Since the Model 378 was not serial numbered, this is an easy way to spot an early one.)

As far as value, it would probably bring a premium from a very advanced, committed and fanatical U.S. military shotgun collector desperate for yet another gun to add to their collection, but most people would only think the markings messed up a nice old gun. John Spangler


# 11585 - Double Size BAR Training Device
7/16/2005
Ken

I have an approx. 7 foot tall B.A.R. training rifle used at Fort Ord with the 7th Infantry. I am looking for any information I can find out about it and its value. Thank You.

Answer:
Ken- These were made in large numbers and show up fairly regularly on the collector and surplus market. Prices seem to vary quite a bit depending on condition and how complete they are (with all the manuals, spare rounds, magazine, carrying box, etc). They were also made for the M2 carbine, M1 Garand, M1919 Machine gun, and more recently in a slightly different manner, for the M16 rifle.

All are intended for use in a classroom environment and are made large enough that everyone can see what the instructor is pointing out. While they are very big and impressive (good news) they are also very big and impressive when looking for a place to display or store one, and not all spouses thing that having this thing as the focal point of the living room is a good decorating idea. (Gotta get them watching Mail Call instead of those froo froo decorating shows on TV, I guess....)

Last of the double size BARs we saw for sale were a nice complete one in perfect condition at $1500 and a rather tired looking example with little more than the "gun" itself for several hundred.

If you plan on selling it, you better figure out what size box you will need and if that is a size that UPS will take. Shipping may be more trouble than it is worth, so it may be better to take a lot less money at a local gun show and let the buyer lug it home with them.. John Spangler


# 10866 - Deutche Werke - Ortgies Differences
7/16/2005

Deutche Werke -

Crown w/ cross on top proof mark on the right side of the frame just forward of the grip. Crown w/ cross on top proof mark on the right side of the slide immediately above the proof mark on the frame. Both proof marks are on their side. Crown w/ cross (laying on its side)proof mark on the barrel in the ejection port opening above the stamp ''380 Auto''. Serial # is on the bottom of the very forward end of the frame, and the word ''Germany'' is stamped underneath the serial number. The magazine has ''9 m/m'' stamped near the bottom on the left side, and near the bottom of the magazine on the right side is stamped ''7.65 m/m'' and under that is stamped an intertwined logo of ''HO'' cocked at an angle. Grips have the intertwined ''HO'' logo (cocked at angle). Under each of the proof marks, or along side depending on how you look at them, is an "N" on its side, or a "Z". Am not sure which way is up. I have a Deutche Werke in the .25 cal and the .32 cal. Those two guns are identical in their markings and their grips have the ''D'' logo. Both of those guns show Werk Erfurt. The gun I am inquiring about has the following on the left side of the slide: ''Ortgies-Patent'' and below those words is stamped : ''Deutsche Werke Aktiengesellschaft Berlin.'' The grips have the intertwined ''HO'' on them and they are held on by a thin bolt with a round nut recessed in the right grip. The bolt goes through a hole in the frame to the rear of the magazine. In all other respects the gun is the same as the others and it dissembles the same. Due to the differences in this gun when compared to the others, what can you tell me about the gun. Such as date of manufacture? Is the way the grips are held on original? Did the gun come with a barrel stamped ''380 Auto'' or was this a barrel added after the gun came to America, even though it has the same proof mark? And main question: Everything I have read about the Ortgies pistols stated they were made in Efurt. What about the ''Berlin'' stamped on the slide? Is this an original Ortgies or is this a Deutsche Werke on the Ortgies patent. Any information you can provide is appreciated.

Answer:
John, Heinrich Ortgies lived in Liege for many years, while in Belgium, he designed an automatic pistol incorporating patents which were granted to him circa 1916 - 1918. After WWI, Ortgies returned to Germany and set up in business in Erfurt manufacturing Ortgies pistols in 7.65mm calibre. Over 10,000 Ortgies pistols were manufactured by 1921 when Deutsche Werke AG purchased the Ortgies patents and machinery, and took up production of pistols in the Ortgies plant. At first under Deutsche Werke, only 7.65mm pistols were manufactured but Ortgies had also prepared designs for pistols chambered in 6.35mm and 9mm Short. 7.65mm pistols were manufactured from 1920 to 1928, 9mm Short pistols were manufactured from 1922 to 1926, and 6.35mm pistols were manufactured from 1921 to 1928.

While the 6.35mm model is identical, except for size, to the 7.65 model, the 9mm model sometimes exhibits small variations which are probably due to Deutsche Werke. Some examples in both 7.65mm and 9mm are found with a manual safety catch on the left side of the frame at the top center of the butt grip. Another variation is the use of screws to hold the grip plates instead of the patented 'invisible' attachment that was originally used by Ortgies. Early models carry the slide inscription 'Deutsche Werke Aktiengesellschaft: Werke Erfurt' and have the monogram 'HO' let into the butt grips. Later models are inscribed 'Deutsche Werke (monogram) Werke Erfurt' with the monogram in the center of this inscription. On the butt grip is an ornate 'D' formed by a symbolic animal. I have not been able to find any information on any models that were marked Berlin.

The standard commercial proof applied by proof houses for Germany was a Crown over the letter N. The N stood for nitrate based gun powder (smokeless powder). German law required that any gun offered for sale had to have been successfully fired a cartridge with much higher pressure than would ever be used in the gun. German military guns also had to be proofed, but the military used different proof markings.

It is possible that the barrel was originally stamped ''380 Auto'', this marking was applied to some German pistols manufactured for export to the USA as was the ''Germany'' marking you mentioned. Marc


# 11617 - PP With Capture Papers
7/12/2005
Rich, Columbus, Ohio

Walther - PP - .32 - Blue - 305854 P -

Left side of slide-- Walther banner followed by ''Waffenfabrik Walther, Zella-Mehlis (Thur.) Walther's Patent Cal. 7,65 m/m Mod. PP'' Right side of slide below ejection port and on right side of chamber is an eagle over an ''N'' My father took this gun off of a German soldier in 1945 and brought it back to US with holster and 2 clips. There is also a customs form for the pistol indicating it was a captured enemy weapon. Holster is in good shape, but no military markings. Gun has side mounted magazine release button and is in good shape. No military acceptance stamp (no ''WaA359''), no eagle over a circle with an ''X'' in it, only the eagle over ''N'' on the right side of the slide and on the chamber. Original Walther grips (black). No other markings. What is the approximate value of this gun and holster?

Answer:
Rich, it looks like you have followed instructions and done your homework. John and I appreciate it when visitors are courteous enough to take the time to follow instructions and check previous answers before submitting their question.

I can tell that you have a wartime production commercial model PP because of the eagle over "N" proof and the lack of other markings. The blue book lists values for this model in the $150 to $500 range. The holster will add a little value but not as much as if it (and the pistol) were military marked. The capture papers are the most important part of the package. Because of the papers that go with the gun, I would price the set at $850.00 - $950 if I were offering it for sale at OldGuns.net. Marc


# 11613 - Browning 1910
7/12/2005
Ernest, Statesville, NC

Fabrique Nationale D'Armes da Guerre Herstal Browning 1910 - .32 - 8.7mm - Blue - 117255 -

On left of slide and body, Lion over P.V and * over AR; on left of trigger guard V in circle; on Right of trigger guard the number 28 stacked. On the receiver end of barrel is, Lion over P.V, a Crown over a R, * over AR, ! over something and a Crown or Pineappel with ELG in the center. I need a manuel to strip and clean and any other history about the pistol would be appreciated. Thanks.

Answer:
Ernest, we have answered at least 5 questions about this model in the past, it looks like you did not follow our instructions to check the Q&A archives before submitting your question. I suggest that you purchase an NRA Guide To Firearms Assembly for information about stripping and cleaning. You will save yourself some headaches if you read and follow the instructions in the book more closely than you seem to have done with the OldGuns.net Q&A submission instructions. Marc


# 11452 - Install A New Barrel On M1903A3 Rifle
7/12/2005
Robert

Remington - 1903A3 - 4186123 -

I have a Remington 1903A3 receiver and I am trying to attach a RA 5-44 barrel. The extraction channel is off by about 1/4 of a turn, and I was wondering if you know of anything that can help me and if the barrel will work with the receiver. Also I would like to know if you have a list of any gunsmiths close to Maryland or in Maryland that could help me. Also the barrel is 2 grove. Please e-mail me back and if their are any gunsmith tools that I need please let me know. Thank you.

Answer:
Robert- There should be a pair of "witness marks" about 3/16" long on the left side of the receiver and left side of the barrel. The barrel needs to be screwed in until the marks line up and then the extractor cut will line up. TO do this you need s SOLID barrel vise and BIG receiver wrench with a long handle to draw the receiver up all the way. You can cheat a bit and lightly file a bit off the shoulder at the back of the barrel (not the sharp corner all the way at the back, but where the forward part of the threads end where the shoulder will bear against the face of the receiver. Be careful not to take too much off as it should be a tight "draw fit" so it will not loosen up on its own. Of course once you have the barrel properly installed, you will need to check the headspace, and use a finish chambering reamer to cut the chamber just deep enough to accept the minimum headspace gage, but not the 1.946 inch maximum gage to fit. Reamer and headspace gages will run about $100, so it may be worth paying the gunsmith to do his job instead of messing around with it yourself.

Fred's firearms on the Eastern Shore is probably good, and I am sure there are others in other parts of MD but this is within the capabilities of just about anyone calling themselves a gunsmith. John Spangler


# 11451 - CAISTALBVT Markings
7/9/2005

Remington - Model Of 1917 - 456606 -

Recently, I purchased a US Model of 1917 Remington, SN 456606, date of manufacture 8 - 18 on the barrel are faint markings (stamped) that appear to be: CAISTALBVT. Any idea what that might mean? Thank you

Answer:
The Gun Control Act of 1968 required that all firearms imported into the US after that date be marked with the name and location of the importer [sort of a backdoor registration system- they can go to the importer and then track a gun to it's last dealer sale.] Century Arms International, formerly located in St. Albans, VT was one of the largest importers of surplus arms, and that is their marking. John Spangler


# 11450 - Trapdoor Springfield Pistol
7/9/2005

Springfield - Trapdoor Pistol -

I have had trouble locating information about a U.S. Springfield pistol I have come upon. It is a Model 1873 Pistol, SN # shows Mfg in 1878. Could this be ? All information I have found is related to a rifle. Any idea

Answer:
Sir- I assume this is a trapdoor type action. A large number of these have been made up over the years for theatrical use, and as project that people thought might be neat. Springfield did make a very small number of trapdoor pistols (about 50, all in .50 caliber as I recall) but all those are accounted for in museums, or maybe a few in private hands as well. All the .45 caliber versions are either made from rifles or assembled from rifle parts, perhaps with new stocks. Although certain neat looking and fun to think about, a single shot .45-70 pistol is probably one of the most useless guns possible. John Spangler


# 10848 - Marlin Target Rifle Info.
7/9/2005
John-Paul, Surprise, AZ

Marlin - 2000 - .22 LR - 22'' - Blue - 08575595 -

None I purchased this rifle through my shooting coach in 1992. He told me that to the best of his knowledge it was the 85th produced, and the first 100 were hand bored. I wanted to know if this was true, and I'd also like to know the manufacture date, and current value. THANKS!

Answer:
John-Paul, references indicate that Marlin manufactured several variations of this rifle.

  • The Model 2000 Target Bolt Action Rifle was manufactured from 1991 to 1995, it was a match chambered single shot bolt action rifle with 22 inch heavy barrel, Lyman adjustable sights, 2 stage target trigger, molded synthetic stock made from fiberglass and Kevlar with twice baked blue enamel finish, adjustable buttplate and aluminum forearm rail.
  • The Model 2000A Target was manufactured in 1994 only, it was similar to Model 2000 Target, except that it had an adjustable comb, ambidextrous pistol grip, and molded-in logo.
  • The Model 2000L was manufactured from 1996 to 20022, it was an updated version of the Model 2000. Differences from the Model 2000 were that it had a gray/black laminated stock, adjustable aperture rear and aperture insert front sight and double bedding screws. A factory test target was supplied with each gun.

Blue book values for Model 2000 rifles range from $235 to $535 depending on condition. I have been unable to find any information that would allow me to date your rifle, you might try asking Marlin, they have a web site at http://www.marlinfirearms.com. Marc


# 10841 - Mossberg 45 Info
7/5/2005
Dave

Mossberg - Model 45 - 22 - NONE -

A friend passed away and had this old Mossberg, which was passed to me. I figure it was probably worth about 20 bucks in it's day, but I shot it and have never seen an off-the-shelf .22 shoot so well. The are no markings other than those I've shown. No SN. The works are the ultimate in simplicity. Just wondered if you can tell me anything, at least when it was made.

Answer:
James, Before 1968 there was no requirement for firearms manufactured in the USA to have serial numbers so many American firearms manufactured prior to 1968, especially inexpensive shotguns and .22 rifles, were never given a serial number.

The Mossberg Model 45 rifle, was manufactured from 1935 to 1937, it was a take-down design similar to the earlier Mossberg Model 42 with a tube magazine beneath the barrel. The tubular magazine increased capacity to 15 22-LR rounds over the Model 42s 5 round box magazine capacity. The Model 45 had a plain half-stock with pistol grip and slender rounded forend. Sights were Mossberg aperture rear on the back of the receiver, and a hooded ramped blade at the muzzle. New rifles were also supplied with an extra spring-leaf type rear sight when they left the factory. Rifles were 42.5in long with 24 inch heavy target barrels and weight was 6.7 pound.


# 10840 - Found An Old Plainfield
7/5/2005
Jason

Plainfield - M-1 -

I was wondering if you had any information on the age of this gun it was with my grandfathers collection and I had never seen it before. Any info you could find would be great.

Answer:
Jason, The Plainfield Machine Company of Dunellen and then Middlesex, New Jersey, assembled M1 Carbine replicas from assorted GI and commercial parts with varying stock features and finishes starting in the late 1960s (around 1967). Rifles were available in both 22 and 30 M1 Carbine calibers and over the years they were in business, Plainfield marketed many different M1 Carbine configurations. Some had ventilated sheet-steel handguards and lacked the bayonet-lug assembly beneath the barrel. The Commando or Paratrooper Model had a forward pistol grip and a sliding skeletal butt. The M1 Sporter had a military-style butt without the sling bar, and the M1 Deluxe Sporter (later known as the 'Plainfielder') had a special half-stock with a Monte Carlo comb and a checkered pistol grip. Plainfield was acquired by Iver Johnson in 1975 and carbine production continued thereafter under the Iver Johnson name. There is little or no collector interest in Plainfield firearms, and retail value is probably in the $250-350 range depending on condition.


# 11449 - Walther P38 Silencer Used In The Bakely Murder
7/5/2005
Aliesha

Walther - P38 Silencer -

I am doing a paper for Forensic Science on the above topic. My classmates and I are unable to locate any information regarding if the above gun from WW2 had a silencer to go with it. If you can answer this question for us it will be greatly appreciated. If not, thank you in advance for your time.

Answer:
Aliesha- As far as I know, silencers were NOT a factory item for any of the P-38s made from 1938 onward. However, a silencer could be fitted to the barrel of one with relatively little work. Manufacture or possession of a silencer requires prior approval of BATFE and payment of special taxes and registration, or it is a serious federal felony offense. However, criminals usually do not bother with stuff like that. Like all the well intentioned gun control schemes, none have been shown to actually reduce violent crimes as criminals ignore those laws just like they do the 10 Commandments and all subsequent attempts to enforce civilized behavior. John Spangler


# 11448 - Adjusting Zero On British No 32 Sniper Scope
7/2/2005
Bill

British - No 32 Sniper Scope -

l don't know if you can help me but l have a No32 scope for my No4 rifle, but l need the tools for adjusting the zero on the scope. I cannot find anything to do this job, unless you can think of something? I am having a lot of trouble zeroing the rifle and the scope together. Can you please help?

Answer:
Bill- Sorry, we cannot help with that one. I know that there are a number of oddball special armorer's wrenches etc for the No 32 scopes, but have no idea how to use them, even if I recognized them and was lucky enough to find a set. I think that Sknnerton or Laidley has a book on the No 4 Mk 1 (T) "from an armorer's perspective" or something that would be the only source I could think of. Meanwhile, rejoice at having a scope at all (we get several requests every year for them but have never had a loose scope to sell). And, learn Kentucky windage.... John Spangler


# 11447 - Marlin Rifle Date Of Manufacture 1889 Marlin
7/2/2005
Edward

Marlin - 1889 -

I am having difficulty finding information on my rifle. It is stamped Marlin Fire-Arms Co. New Haven CT. It has a number of patent dates on it starting Feb 7/1865 and the last re-issue of Nov 9 1880(the inscription is worn and I think that is what it reads for the last date. There are a number of other dates in between. It just says 40 cal, is lever action with top ejection, a 31 inch hexagon [sic] barrel with an overall length of 49 1/2 inches. The serial number is 25328. Can you give me more info. There are no model numbers or anything else that I can find on the rifle. It is in quite good condition. Thank you in advance.

Answer:
Edward- Sounds like you have a Model 1881 Marlin in .40-60 caliber. The "reissue" marking indicates that this is the 'third model" markings.

About 20,000 were made circa 1881-1892. About a third of those were in .40 caliber. Standard barrel length was 24-28 inches, and very small numbers were made with 30, 32 or 34 inch barrels. (yours is probably 32" measured from the face of the closed breech to the muzzle).

Value in NRA antique very good condition would be about $550 and about $2,000 in NRA antique excellent. However, a collector looking for the exact combination of caliber and barrel length to complete a set of every variation may be willing to pay more than for the more common versions. Hope this helps. John Spangler


# 10839 - Colt 380
7/2/2005
Jerry, Vallejo, California

Colt - 4/20/1897/ 12/22/03 - .380 - 3'' - Blue - 47844 -

Colt's PT. F.A. Mfg. Co. Hartford, Ct. u.s.a. My father left me this pistol, only damage is a missing front sight. What can I do to preserve and replace missing front sight. Thank You

Answer:
Jerry, it is hard to be sure without seeing the pistol but I would guess that you have a Colt 1908 Hammerless Pocket model, the "4/20/1897/ 12/22/03" are probably patent dates.

The 1908 was a John Browning design, it made use of a recoil-operated concealed hammer and the design was much more rounded than its predecessors. The rounded design and the proportions of barrel and butt which matched each other perfectly, helped the Colt models 1908 and 1903 (the 1903 was the same pistol as the 1908 chambered in .32 caliber) be one of the more successful designs that the Colt Company has produced.

To the best way to do to preserve your pistol is to keep it clean and well oiled with a light coat of gun oil to prevent rust. Any competent gunsmith should be able to repair/replace the front sight. Marc


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