# 6634 - Japanese Military FN 1910?
9/28/2004
Suzy, St. Louis, MO

Has Kanji inscribed on the gun. Hello! I have inherited this pistol from my father. He was a Navy Seabee in WWII and the story I was told as a young child was a Japanese officer shot him in the leg with this pistol, my father wrestled the pistol from him and then returned the favor. After the war was over my father some how contacted the Japanese gentleman by mail and wanted to return the pistol to him, the gentleman wrote back to my father and told him to keep it in honor. Since I was a young child hearing the story I did not write down the story, now kicking myself for it. Can you tell me any information on this pistol? Possibly when it was made or where I could obtain a manual for it? Thank you!

Answer:
Suzy, that is a great story, it is a shame that you never had your father write it all down. I would recommend that you record everything that you can remember of the story and keep it together with the pistol. You should also save any documents that you can find. Capture papers, your father's correspondence with the Japanese officer, records from your father's service or other items of your father's from that time would all be good.

I do not know of a source for an owner's manual for your pistol and because of its age I suspect that one will be hard to find, I can give you a little general history. The Browning Model 1910 was available in 7.65mm and 9mm short (.380 ACP) starting in about 1912. FN manufactured about 701,266 pistols up to 1980 when the model was discontinued. The 1910 had a 3.42 inch barrel and a 7 shot magazine. The pistol was striker rather than hammer fired, and came with Brownings "Triple Safety" system. The Model 1910 was widely adopted by police forces all over the world, but there were few military sales. The model 1910 was not an official Japanese military weapon but many Japanese officers purchased their own sidearms on the commercial market, and this is probably how the pistol came to be on an island in the Pacific.

I hope that this information has been of some use to you. I also hope that you are able to write down the history and keep it in the family together with the pistol and anything else have from your father's time in the Pacafic. Marc

# 6633 - Erma KGP 68A Info
9/28/2004
Steve, Parma, Ohio

kal 9 kurz/380 short Can you provide me with any history on this gun? Is it a collectible? Any suggestions to where I could sell it and get a decent price? Do you know where I could have it repaired? There is no clip, so I don't even know if it fires. If anyone out there is interested in it, are there special procedures I must go through to sell it to them in order to be Legal? Also, what years were these made and who would be a typical owner of one? The condition appears to be like new. Thank you.

Answer:
Steve, the Erma KGP-68 was introduced in 1968, it was an improved version of the earlier EP-22 chambered in .32 ACP or .380 with modifications to toggle system and minor improvements in the trigger mechanism.

My impression of a typical KGP-68 owner would be someone who can not afford something of better quality, or someone who does not know a lot about guns but likes the way that the KGP-68 looks. There is not a lot of collector interest in most Erma firearms, and as a result, their resale value is usually low. If you decide to sell your Erma, you will probably realize more money by selling on your own rather then going to a dealer, because the dealers markup will be most likely be reflected in the purchase offer.

I do not know what local laws that you have in your area pertaining to gun sales. A good place to find out more that would be to ask a local gunsmith. You could kill two birds with one stone and have the gunsmith check your Erma for functionality and safety at the same time. The best place to look for parts is Gun Parts Corp. There is a link to them on our links page. Marc

# 6934 - Grice Brass Barrel Turkish Naval Gun
9/28/2004
Eric, Midland, MI

Bronze/Brass barrel stamped with a crescent moon and 11 stars and the word London on top. Trigger guard has 7 stars stamped on it. Right side of gun at the hammer states Grice and toward the rear again has a crescent moon with 7 stars. Appears to be a walnut stock with no protective metal on the butt. Suspect the gun was manufactured around 1760 for Turkish navy. Have photos, but don't have gun with me at moment to measure the barrel length - would guess 7'' or so. Do you have any additional information on this piece, particularly regarding year of manufacture and possibly value? Please advise if I can provide more info for you. Thanks in advance.

Answer:
Eric- I can neither confirm nor disprove the Turkish Navy connection. Grice was the name of several English makers. (It is also a name used on reproduction muskets and locks made from the 1960s onward, so be careful!) William Grice worked 1766-1777, and another William Grice worked 1774-1781, and then as a partner with Joseph Grice from 1781 to 1789. Joseph continued on his own 1789-1797. Later, James Grice is listed as a gun maker 1897-1900, but well after the period in which your gun was probably made. I cannot help with the value, since we are not sure when it was made or for whom. There may be a few collectors of Turkish arms, probably lured by the flood of cheap (and extremely abused) surplus arms in recent years. I doubt if they would be willing to pay a lot for an older Turkish gun. If it is something else, then the value may depend more on appearance and condition than anything else. John Spangler

# 6930 - Requa & Billinghurst Battery Or " Bridge " Gun
9/25/2004
Charles, Corsicana, Tx USA

strip-clip fed; 25 barrels firing from 1 cap and on cannon carriage. Only 3 known to exist today. The confederates built this gun and it is known to only have been used in 2 battles. Why was it not used more and would it be legal to build a reproduction?

Answer:
Charles- There were a variety of attempts made to increase the number of rifle size bullets zipping down range toward the enemy, either simultaneously or in rapid succession, during the Civil War. The best known, and most successful was the Gatling gun, but there were a few others such as the Ager's "coffee mill gun" which had a single barrel and a crank operated mechanism that loaded and fired cartridges one at a time from a hopper on top. The French had a "mitrailleuse" which had a cluster of 37 barrels bundled up (much like a cannon barrel) that had a breech that opened up, and a plate or clip of 37 cartridges could be loaded, the breech closed and then all fired simultaneously. The Requa design used 25 barrels, laid side by side, with a piano hinge type breech so all could be opened at once, and a long clip of 25 rounds inserted so one cartridge went into each barrel, and then the breech closed with a single motion. These were not center fire metallic cartridges like we use today, but needed go be ignited by a percussion cap, and the clip apparently had some primer powder so that the flame from a single cap would ignite the powder train and progressively fire off all 25 barrels. While all of these early rapid/multiple fire weapons were fairly successful as mechanical devices, their actual usefulness on the battlefield was unimpressive at best. It was not until WW1 that military leaders managed to figure out appropriate roles and uses for what we now call machine guns. Early guns like the Gatling were mounted on wheeled carriages, so many considered them to be some sort of oddball artillery piece, and then complained when their range was less than any artillery piece. Their rifle caliber ammunition would perform better when merged with infantry units, but since they looked like artillery, they tended to draw fire from the enemy's artillery. This usually irritated their infantry neighbors so that they did not want to have them around. A few "true believers" like John H. Parker used initiative and cunning to get Gatlings included in the expedition to Cuba in 1898, and ended up providing effective covering fire for Teddy Roosevelt's troops at the Battle of San Juan Hill.

Parker's book "The Gatlings at Santiago" is an excellent and passionate account of his experience and future vision for the Gatling guns in the U.S. Army. (It is available on line at http://www.authorama.com/text/gatlings-at-santiago.html) Parker's co-conspirator in getting his detachment, guns and ammunition to Cuba was Lt. Col. John T. Thompson, Chief Ordnance Officer at Tampa where the army embarked for Cuba. Yes, he is THE Thompson of submachine gun fame.

Another great study of the problem of integrating machine guns in the service is David A. Armstrong's "Bullets and Bureaucrats: The Machine Gun and the United States Army, 1861-1916."

Back to the Requa gun- There is a good discussion of these (and similar guns) in Bill Edwards' classic "Civil War Guns" chapter 20. He notes that five Requa guns were purchased by the U.S. Army and some were used in the attack on Fort Wagner, S.C. (the siege made famous in the excellent movie "Glory.") The guns were not very impressive (at least according to one of the Confederate defenders. George Chinn (author of the immortal five volume "Machine Guns" series) asserts that the Confederates had some Requa guns also, defending forts in the Charleston area, but this may be a confused account of the Fort Wagner use. Probably the best analysis of the Billlinghurst-Requa guns and their use is in Dean Thomas' definitive study of Civil War era ammunition, which invariably also gets into the procurement and use of the weapons using the ammunition. He depends not only on exhaustive research in primary source documents, but also analysis of existing ammunition samples, as well as archaeological evidence to confirm actual use. Look in Volume 3, pages 239 through 253 which even includes patent drawings and numerous photographs.

Since there was no clearly defined tactical role, nor any obvious positive results from use of the Requa guns, the leaders can be forgiven for not forcing them into greater use. As far as making a replica, I am not sure what the legal status would be. If it were a muzzle loader, or used percussion ignition, my understanding is that it would have "antique" status and not a machine gun. However, since making the powder train for get the successive cartridges to ignite will be a problem, it may be easier to use metallic cartridges. However, then you are faced with a much more complex design to include hammers and firing pins for all 25 barrels instead of igniting a single percussion cap. Plus, since it would fire more than one cartridge with a single pull of the trigger, I think that the BATF would classify it as a machine gun. Before embarking on a project like that, you should seek an opinion from the BATF as to the legal status and a statement that it would or would not be considered a machine gun. John Spangler

# 6918 - Prussian Musket Used By 7th Vermont
9/25/2004
Mark, Midland, TX

Two crowns...both on wood on left side over trigger. Larger of the two has FW below it. Smaller (down and to the right) has indistinguishable symbol (Possibly SF). I am trying to place the manufacturer of the above described musket. I would like confirmation of make and model. It is a three-band musket of large caliber. It has no US or CS markings at all...only the two small crowns, the one having a very clear FW below it. It is supposed to have belonged to an ancestor from the 7th Vermont. I am curious if the serial number can in any way pin down the date of manufacture, place of manufacture, and if records are kept to determine a place or date of issue. Any help you could give would greatly aid my research. Thanks. Mark

Answer:
Mark- You may want to find out more about your ancestor's service in the 7th Vermont, as this regiment has a very interesting (if somewhat un-heroic) history. Their behavior in Baton Rouge in August-November 1862 was so outrageous that the Regimental colors (flags) were removed from the unit, a mark of disgrace that is almost unheard of. Eventually they got their act together and were offered new colors as replacements, which they refused. I believe their problems were associated with General Benjamin F. "Beast" Butler's occupation of Louisiana where defeated rebels and their womenfolk were treated as contemptible and disreputable creatures thoroughly outraged the locals and many politically correct (although that term had not yet been invented) Yankees. Of course, Louisiana politics has long been a blood sport, and shortly after the Civil War I believe that there were incidents where some militia units ended up attacking the state legislature.

Back to your gun. The 7th Vermont was not armed with Prussian muskets at any time, but rather had Springfield rifled muskets the whole time 1861-1864. The Crown over FW markings are those of the Prussian government. I think the FW may be Friederich Wilhelm, but am not sure. Remember that Prussia was just one of the many German states prior to unification in 1871, and while many of them used similar arms, there were often differences as well and the markings can get more complicated than my level of interest in the subject will absorb. You re probably correct that it is the Model 1809 which had a 42 inch .72 caliber barrel. Large numbers were gleefully sold by the Prussians to the U.S. agents and they were widely used by Yankee units for much of the war. John Spangler

# 6629 - Pistol In OZ? Thought They Were Banned down Under
9/25/2004
Phill, Perth, Western Australia

FN on handgrip ( black ), safety at rear left of pistol ( FEU, SUR ). Lanyard ring on bottom left of grip, overall length 160mm. 7 round magazine, magazine eject on bottom rear of pistol. Looking for any information regarding the age and possible history of this weapon. Also looking for cleaning/breakdown instructions or any other information I can find.

Answer:
Phill, the " Browning Patent Brevete S.G.D.G" markings on your pistol is patent information, not the pistols model name. From the markings and your description, my guess is that you have a FN Model 1900.

The Model 1900 was developed in 1898, by FN engineers using Browning's 1897 patents as their starting point. It was the first design to use the well-known 7.65mm (.32) cartridge, Browning designed for use in this pistol. The 1900 was adopted by the Belgian Army in March 1900, after which, it was offered for commercial sale and later adopted by many continental military and police forces. Model 1900 production continued at the FN plant until some time in 1912.

There is no known source of records to research the history if individual FN pistols so I can't help with that request. The NRA book of firearms assembly has take-down instructions for the Browning FN Model 1900. But my guess may be incorrect and your pistol may not be a 1900, the instructions are too long to list here anyway. I would recommend that you check the book out at your local library but I am unfamiliar with the library system in OZ and I am not sure if it is available there. You may have to purchase the book, the NRA is offering it for sale at there web site at the following link: http://store.nrahq.org/nra/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=205. Good Luck. Marc

# 6624 - Winchester Mod 36 9mm Shotgun
9/21/2004
John Southern CA

I have been looking up the history of this gun with not much luck. I have a shell that has been with it for at least 46 years (my age). Most gun shows I have taken it to, I come up empty handed. I found a shell that will work but nothing like the paper wrapped copper cased one I have. It was originally bought new by my great, great grandfather around 1899. It's in fantastic condition. Anything you can tell me would be appreciated. Thanks John

Answer:
John, I am afraid that you are a little off on the date that your Winchester was purchased. The Model 36 was first introduced in the March 1920 Winchester catalog and factory records indicate that the first delivery of Model 36 shotguns to warehouse stock was in March 1920.

The Model 36 was a takedown, bolt action, single shot shotgun that was cocked by pulling rearward on the knurled firing pin head much like Winchester's well known Model 67 .22 rifle. Winchester designed the 36 to be a low-priced firearm for use in controlling small vermin, it was chambered for the 9mm rim fire paper shot shell, but it could also be used with 9mm rim fire ball ammunition. Winchester hoped that the Model 36 would be popular, especially in the southern states, but the guns small size (weight was only 2 and 3/4 pounds) in combination with the small gauge and short range of the 9mm ammunition caused sales to be disappointingly low. Manufacture of the model was discontinued in 1927 after about 20,306 were produced.

Although other guns chambered for this ammunition had previously been manufactured in Europe, the Model 36 was the only shotgun ever made in the USA that was chambered for the 9mm shot and ball cartridges. For an ammunition source, try Ye Olde Western Scrounger, there is a link to him on our links page. If the scrounger can't help, you may want to try some European sources since the cartridge appears to have been more popular in Europe than in the USA. Marc

# 6623 - National Armory '03?
9/21/2004
William

I have been interested in collecting a nice 1903, but am limited with my funds. I found one in a pawn shop recently and just can't figure this rifle out. I have a very limited knowledge of 1903 rifles, but I do know who the major makers of these rifles were. The rifle that I found is marked ''National Armory'' 1903. I know that Springfield Armory is sometimes refereed to as the ''National Armory'', but in all my search I just can't figure this rifle out. Was there a company that produced these rifles by that name or did someone have this stamped in? Sorry that this is all the information that I have on the rifle. If you are as interested in this as I am, I will be happy to send you more information with pictures. I am thinking about purchasing this rifle, so any information is appreciated. Thanks

Answer:
William, I have never heard of a National Armory who manufactured Model 1903 or Model 1903A1 rifles. There was a company called National Ordnance who assembled surplus military parts on new manufacture cast receivers during the 1960's. If the rifle you are inquiring about is really a National Armory rather than a National Ordnance, I suspect that it was assembled under similar circumstances. There is no collector interest in National Ordnance or National Armory rifles. This type of thing surfaces from time to time, and as a rule, they are worth the price of their useful parts. I would advise you to look for a low end Remington Model 1903A3. It will probably be a little more expensive but at least you will have a real U.S. military issue rifle that will appreciate in value while a parts/copy rifle won't. Marc

# 6901 - Model 1892 Krag Jorgensen
9/21/2004
Jason from Mt. Morris Pennsylvania

Side is marked as such: US 1894 SPRINGFIELD ARMORY 1450 The gun has an engraved ''p'' in a circle just behind trigger guard. I would like information on any (If any) history on this gun and sites on information for this gun. I would really like to know if it was issued to a family member or just acquired over time. Thank you so much for any assistance.

Answer:
Jason- There is no documented history available on your gun from Springfield Research Service, so we cannot bless it with any exciting history or association with sexy historic events. Many Krag rifles were sold as surplus in the period 1920-1950, and a few may have followed soldiers or National Guardsmen home from their assignments. I guess you can make up your own stories on this one and no one can prove you wrong. John Spangler

# 6899 - Werndl Rifle- Austrian Military
9/18/2004
Mike Pekin Ill

barrel-''WERNDL''**Right side hammer plate-''Lens 868''**on hammer ''55 . L''** on butt plate ''58.LSt.B.'' **also on butt plate below other # ''1006''-the 1 has a dot over it and the 0''s have marks or dots in side them ** on the block back ''S23''** bannet pin is on the right side of barrel Who made this rifle and when? Did it shoot black powder shells? Where might it have been used? The cleaning rod is held under the barrel. What's it worth? It's condition is very good but used, can it be shot again? Thank you for your help and for the support that you give to our rights and the fight to retain them under the 2nd. amendment and support of the NRA.

Answer:
Mike- Glad to help fellow NRA supporters! The Werndl is one of those really oddball gun designs that popped up in the period between 1865 and 1870 as every nation scrambled to switch from muzzle loaders to cartridges and breechloaders. That would be a fascinating collecting niche with a huge variety, and many of the arms are still modestly priced. (A few are prohibitively expensive, but you don't have to tell your spouse that until after you have a few dozen of the cheaper pieces....). The Werndl was adopted by Austria, and made at several factories, Lens being one, and I think that Steyr was another. (Steyr made military rifle prior to 1898 would be another neat collecting field, because Steyr not only made guns for Austrian use, but for many other countries as well.) The Werndl action had a heavy, bulky receiver that had a large cylinder that would pivot with a notch cut along one edge. When turned one way, the notch allowed a cartridge to be manually inserted or removed from the chamber, and when rolled to the other position the solid part of the block closed the breech and lined the firing pin up with the hammer. This is a little bit like the 20th century Dardick that used a cylinder with several notches that would pick up a triangular shaped round of ammunition (called a "tround") from a magazine and then rotate to line it up with the barrel. Apparently a large number of Werndl rifles entered the surplus market in the 1960s and they are much more common in the U.S. than in Austria. Like many Austrian arms, the leading digit of the year is omitted, so 868 indicates manufacture in 1868. Despite their oddball design, demand for them is modest, with prices accordingly pretty reasonable. The black powder cartridges known as the 11.15x58R was used by the Werndl and the later the Austrian Mannlichers. Reportedly ammunition for these can be improvised from .348 Winchester cases blown out to fill the chamber, trimmed to length, loaded with a suitable charge of black powder and using .45 caliber bullets. We do not vouch for the safety or effectiveness of an attempt like this, but Steve Frey's great little book "Imported Military Firearms 1866-1899" has tips on improvising all sorts of oddball obsolete ammo. Use at your own risk, and we disclaim any responsibility for the information he provides, but it is interesting to read about what others have done to keep some of the old timers shooting. John Spangler

# 6839 - Morse Carbine .50 Caliber
9/18/2004
Ron MN

Morse carbine handed down to me, I think made in 1860. What would be the value of this gun? condition would rate very good, only missing the end cleaning rod, that's what I think the hole held anyway. Thank you. Ron.

Answer:
Ron- You have an exceptionally rare and valuable gun there. G.W. Morse was a very clever inventor, and invented one of the earliest systems to convert .69 caliber muskets to breechloaders using self contained center fire cartridges. The Morse conversions were made in small numbers with about 54 completed at Springfield in 1860-61. About 600 more, in various stages of completion, were destroyed when the Confederates burned Harpers Ferry in 1861. The start of a war is not a good time to try to switch to a new (and unproven) rifle and ammunition. The fact that these conversions were being actively pursued certainly refutes the nonsensical claims that the U.S. Army Ordnance Department refused to consider new ideas. Morse's second notable small arms invention was your type of Morse Carbine. These were made at South Carolina's state owned facility in Greenville, SC, which made guns exclusively for use by South Carolina Troops (much as North Carolina hoarded arms for its militia) rather than for general issue through the Confederate Ordnance Department. Of course, these took a special center fire cartridge which was made in small numbers, so tight control probably made good sense at a time when logistics support was chaotic at best, and often lacking entirely. Morse's third invention was the 'Morse's Inside Lock Musket" with only about 140 rifles and muskets produced. While the stock and barrel were of conventional design, the lock mechanism was totally unique and involved a minimum number of parts to simplify manufacture. These too were made at South Carolina's State Works in Greenville. Morse's final contribution was his design of a metallic cartridge which had a separate head section attached to the cylindrical case body with the joint sealed by a tiny bit of rubber. This was used for a very brief period for .45-70 trapdoor ammunition, and the Ordnance Department eventually was forces to pay ex-Confederate Morse royalties for the use of his patented design. Had Morse worked in the industrialized Connecticut River valley with the resources to pursue and market his inventions, he may have ended up with many more successful arms, and better recognition for his inventive genius. Interestingly, his original 1856 patent for breechloading arms was used by Whitney in the Whitney-Burgess-Morse lever action rifles made circa 1879-1882.

Back to your Morse carbine now. Only about 1,000 were made and they are very much desired by collectors of Confederate arms, as only a small number seem to have survived. Many were probably lost when South Carolina's capitol at Columbia was burned by Sherman's troops, while it was being used as an arsenal for state owned arms. Flayderman's Guide recognizes three variation with the least valuable worth $6,500 in NRA antique fair condition and $15,000 in NRA antique very good condition. Those marked Morse on the right side he places at $7,000 and $20,000 in those condition levels. I bet you are one happy camper to learn that! John Spangler

# 6622 - Blued Remington Rand
9/18/2004
Hyrum, Thatcher, AZ,

What can you tell me about it. What is it's value, I think it was my fathers service pistol in the pacific in WW2. I Would also like to find a manual for proper maintenance because it occasionally jams and I am not sure why.

Answer:
Hyrum, I have some good news and some bad news about your pistol. The good news is the maker of your slide and frame is Remington Rand. Many Model 1911A1's are seen today mismatched, with a slide by one make on a frame by another maker. The bad news is your pistol left the factory with parkerized (not blued) finish. If the pistol is blued then it was refinished after manufacture. This ruins the collectibility of the pistol, and leaves you with a shooter.

There are a variety of things that can cause a stoppage in a Colt 1911A1 that range from weak extractor springs, to weak recoil spring to damaged magazines. The best way to fix this problem is to take the pistol to a gunsmith who has some experience with 1911A1 pistols. Marc

# 6621 - Dating A Radom Pistol
9/14/2004
Mark, Hershey, PA

How can you tell the date of manufacture of a Radom p35?... Does it have anything to do with the ''letter'' prefix?

Answer:
Mark, The Germans did not stamp the year of manufacture on Radom pistols and by the end of the war, letter serial number suffixes were well into the second run through the alphabet. The best way to determine an approximate year of manufacture is by pistol variation.

Collectors divide Nazi Radom's into three variations. First variation pistols had a high quality finish, and some had tangent sights and a slot for a shoulder stock. This type was manufactured shortly after production at the Radom plant was resumed under the Nazi occupation.

In order to speed production second variation pistols were given a lower quality finish. Serial numbers on these pistols were changed to the German system that used a letter with the number.

Third variation pistols were produced late in the war. These pistols had no take down lever at the back of the frame, which was used, on earlier pistols to hold the slide open for disassembly. The finish on third variation pistols is crude with many machining marks visible and very thin bluing. Some late pistols had wood instead of plastic grips. These late pistols also used the German letter and number serial number system.

You should check your pistol to be sure that the serial number on the frame matches the serial number stamped on the inside of the slide and barrel. For collectors, a mismatched gun is much less desirable. Marc

# 6614 - Colt New Service Y.O.M.
9/14/2004
Allan, Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia

What would be the year of manufacture of this revolver. Would it be pre or post 1900. I believe it would be pre 1900.

Answer:
Allan, Colt introduced the New Service Revolver in 1898, it was the largest of the Colt swing-out cylinder models yet produced at that time. The 'New Service' design was intended to be made mainly for use by the services, for sales to government contracts. It was quite widely sold as a general sidearm for police, government guards and similar armed organizations. The majority of New Service sales were made on the American continent, but some revolvers went to the Far East and a very few were sold in Great Britain. Substantial numbers of New Service revolvers were sold, particularly during the First World War, and when the line was discontinued in 1944, more than 356,000 revolvers had been produced.

My records indicate that revolvers with serial numbers between 2300 and 5600 were manufactured in 1900. Marc

# 6638 - Enfield 1845 Rifle Or Musket
9/14/2004
Linda, Endwell, New York

The barrel has stamped on it Enfield 1845, the lock is stamped with VR Tower 7 with a crown and the stock has a small round brass imprint with a 15 on it. One side of the stock has a hinged brass plate when opened has an area for the ball and for the powder. Near the trigger is a strap hanger. It also has the long shaft with it for packing the ball. The barrel is approx. 39'' long. The hammer pulls back and stops at 1/2'' and then again at 2''. There is a small crack in front of the trigger on the stock. Could you tell me the history of the musket and the value it may have?

Answer:
Linda- The 1845 date and brass patchbox on the side of the stock sure sound like it is a Brunswick rifle, but they had a 30" barrel, not 39" The 39 inch barrel was standard on the Pattern 1842 smoothbore muskets, but they did not have patchboxes. I am unable to identify the model based on the information provided. Value will depend on what it is, and the condition, but it may be trash or treasure at this point. John Spangler

# 6540 - Van Karner VK-M12 Flare Gun
9/11/2004
Ronald Pijnacker Netherlands

Bronze flare gun VK-M12 What is the date of manufacture of this flare gun (is it before 1945?). Where can I find info about the maker?

Answer:
Ronald- As far as we can figure out, all of these were made during WW2, although they remained in use in Merchant Marine service for maybe another 10 years afterwards. These are somewhat unusual in the flare gun field as they are made of all brass, except for the steel hammer, springs and a few other small parts. Collectors recognize two variations, one with the markings cast in place as raised letters, and the other having the markings stamped into the metal. These fired 37mm flares. Van Karner was a maker of various items used by the Merchant Marine industry. Information on flare guns is very limited and while there is a little bit on some of the German guns in various books, the only comprehensive coverage is in a privately published book by Robert M. Gaynor "Flare Guns & Signal Pistols: Their Use, Description and Accessories". It is available from the author at 312 Miller Street, Strasburg, PA 17579. It has 178 pages of good information with pencil sketches of the items discussed. Anyone interested in flare guns should have a copy. John Spangler

# 6495 - Colt New Army Revolver
9/11/2004
Rob, Mt. Joy, PA

Top of barrel is stamped: COLT'S PT F A MFG CC HARTFORD CT U.S.A. PATENTED AUG. 5 1884 NOV. 6 88 MAR. 5 95. Side of barrel says COLT. D.A. 38 Inside frame is a U and 2036. 2036 is also on crane and cylinder release. Serial # is on butt frame, stamped on 2 lines. Prancing Colt rollmark on left side of frame. This pistol also has plastic grips with the ''Colt'' and prancing pony emblem. Based on what I can find, I believe this is a ''New Army'' model, but the model seems almost interchangeable with ''New Navy.'' The pistol belonged to my wife's grandfather and I believe it is a civilian model, but that's as ''definitive'' as my identification has been. Is the ''New Army'' model the same as the ''New Navy?'' If not, how can I tell them apart? And can you tell me what year this serial number was produced? Thanks for any info. I love this website, but every time I visit I want to spend money (my wife doesn't appreciate the site).

Answer:
Rob- What? Your wife does not like our site? We could be the solution to her Christmas or birthday shopping dilemma, if she had a more positive outlook. In fact, your joy at receiving gifts from a place like this may excite you so much that your love life could improve tremendously, so she could think of all our goodies as aphrodisiacs. Colt's "Navy" revolvers were the Model 1851 .36 caliber percussion revolver, and the "Army" was the Model 1860 .44 caliber percussion revolver. In the 1870s Colt got into the cartridge revolver business, and by the end of the decade had adopted some double action as well as traditional single action arms, but both types used a loading gate on the side and some sort of ejector rod to individually poke out fired cases. Colt introduced the Model 1889 Navy Double Action revolver in .38 caliber which was their first to use a cylinder that swings out to the side and would eject all fired cases at once. Some people call this the "New Navy" to distinguish it from the "old Navy" model 1851. Minor modifications were made to the design and in 1892 Colt introduced the "New Army and Navy Revolver" in .38 caliber, and by 1894 discontinued production of the 1889 Navy model. Both the Army and the Navy adopted the 38 caliber Colt revolver, although they went through a confusing array of minor modifications and differing official designations. They Army alone designated Models 1892, 1894, 1895, 1896, 1901, and 1903 in this series. The military guns were all made in .38 Colt caliber, while civilian sales were in that plus .41 Colt and eventually some in .38 S&W caliber. The 1889 Navy model was serialized in a range of 1 to about 31,000 and the New Army and Navy in a separate range of 1 to about 291000 with production ending about 1907. (115000 is about the cutoff for the end of 1898.) These are innovative (for their time) and well made, but ammunition is very hard to find, and they have only modest collector interest or value, and even the military examples sell for a small fraction of what other Colt military arms bring. Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and Their Values is an excellent source of info on this as well as most other subjects. It is available from us for only $31.00 postpaid (regular $34.95) and is the best investment any gun collector (or Santa Claus) could make. A much more expensive reference, but the definitive source of info on all Colts is R.L. Wilson's Book of Colt Firearms (about $150). John Spangler

# 6612 - OldGuns.net Membership?
9/11/2004
Nicholas, Las Cruces, NM

On top of barrel, ''Marlin Firearms Co. New-Haven. CT. U.S.A. PAT'D AUG. 12. 1890. MAR.1.'92. JUNE 8.'97.NOV.29.1904'' The markings above are bracketed by arrows; one in front pointing to the front of barrel, one behind pointing to the receiver. Additionally, there is a proof mark, JM, on the lower left flat of the barrel which the slide covers when the action is opened. On the ''back strap'' of the right side receiver piece ( the two halves of the receiver are screwed together and held with locating dowels) there appear the markings which I assume designate the model number, they are ''No. 20-A''. I would like any information that could be provided on the history of this rifle including books published, website links, etc. as I am finding it to be exceedingly hard to find any on my own. Any assistance from the site or the membership will be greatly appreciated.

Answer:
Nicholas, the OldGuns.net "membership" is John and me. John does not have much interested in 22 rifles that were not used by the military so that leaves it to me to answer your question.

The Marlin 20A rifle was manufactured from 1913 to 1922, it was chambered in .22 caliber and could feed .22 Short, .22 Long and .22 Long Rifle cartridges interchangeably. The 20A was an improved version of the earlier Model 20 with a short locking bar and a modified firing pin. Typical examples had a 22.5 inch octagon barrel and magazine capacity of 11-15 rounds depending on what type of cartridges were loaded. A full-length magazine was optional.

A good book to purchase would be " Marlin Firearms A History Of The Guns And The Company That Made Them" by Lt. Col. William S. Brophy, USAR, Ret. The Marlin Firearms Company websight is located at: http://www.marlinfirearms.com. The sight has a history section that you may want to look in to.

Last but not least, you can try posting a question on the proper forum at ArmsCollectors.com. John and I are the only members there also, but there are some very knowledgeable people who frequent the forums and questions are often answered within 2 or 3 days. Marc

# 6611 - Possible Model 12 Remington
9/7/2004
Mike, Easley, SC

metal butt plate, This pump rifle has been in my fathers possession for most of his life and his father had it before that he died this past year and I would like to know when it was made and what model it is. It has Pederson's patents of January 5, 1909. October 12,1909, March 8, 1910, April 6, 1910.

Answer:
Mike, The "Pederson's patents" markings that you mention lead me to believe that your Remington is a Model 12. The markings on your rifle my help you to somewhat narrow the possible date of manufacture, early examples bore Remington-UMC marks while later manufacture rifles had Remington marks only.

The Model 12 was manufactured by Remington from 1909 to 1936. Several grades (from A to F) were available for those who wanted a higher quality finish and/or different options.

The Model 12 design was based on patents granted to John Pedersen from 1909 to 1912, it was a hammerless take-down slide-action rifle that had a 22 inch barrel and a short slab-side rounded back receiver with the ejection port on the right hand side. Stocks were walnut, the buttstock had a straight-wrist and the slide handle had circumferential grooves. The magazine tube was three-quarter-length and ended well short of the muzzle. Marc

# 6608 - .25 Cal Mauser Info.
9/7/2004
David, River Forest, IL

Eagle over ''N'' I acquired this pistol from a WWII vet who was in Germany. Is this pistol a military pistol? What does the eagle over ''N'' mean? Does it have any real value?

Answer:
David, your pistol could have been purchased privately and used as a personal weapon by someone in the military, but 6.35 mm is not a military caliber so it is very doubtful that this is a military issue sidearm. The eagle over "N" marking that you ask about is a German commercial proof.

The small Mauser 6.35 mm pistols are excellent quality, and very compact, but there is not a lot of collector interest in them. One recently sold at OldGuns.net for over $250 but it took us a long time to find the right collector who wanted to give it a home. Marc

# 6484 - Williamson (Moore) Patent Teat Fire Revolver
9/7/2004
Joe, Lemoyne, Pennsylvania

It has scroll work on the frame in a gold colored medal, probably brass and wooden handles. On the cylinder is ''D. Williamson's patent January 5, 1864 This is a 6 shot revolving cylinder derringer that has a front loading cylinder. The cartridges have a nipple percussion end. Can you give me any history of this derringer and any range of its value. Thank you.

Answer:
Joe- Moore's Patent Firearms Company of Brooklyn, NY made a .32 caliber revolver using conventional rimfire ammunition from 1861 to 1863, but Smith & Wesson's vigorous enforcement of their patent rights to a bored through cylinder forced Moore to stop production. Moore also made an all metal .41 rimfire caliber derringer from about 1870, so they were serious gun makers and wanted a revolver to sell. Williamson's patent provided the key to a new product. The "teat fire" cartridge had only a small "teat" that poked through the end of the cylinder, and thus evaded the S&W patent. The cartridges are rather scarce today, but do turn up with dealers in collector ammunition if you want to get one for display. About 30,000 revolvers, all in .32 caliber, were made circa 1864-1870, under both the Moore name and later as National Arms Company. The teat fire revolvers had a silver plated brass frame, and apparently some engraving was standard. These were probably the most successful competitor to the S&W patent, and in 1870 Colt bought National Arms Company, dropping the teatfire model, but putting the all metal derringer into production under the Colt name. John Spangler

# 6480 - M1 Garand To M1D Sniper Conversion
9/3/2004
David Johnson City, New York

SA barrel # 6535448 11 65 MD51 How can I convert to an M1D.I have the barrel base. If there is an in-depth tech. manual avail., please suggest it. Otherwise, clue me in with your verbal expertise. All technicals will be appreciated.

Answer:
David- Military barrels for the M1D were made with the rear section trimmed down and the scope base installed, and the rear trimmed to VERY close tolerances, as the barrel must line up correctly so the iron sights will be aligned and the gas cylinder and op rod will line up with the receiver and bolt. It is possible to remove the barrel from a standard M1 Garand, trim the diameter and fit the base and reinstall it, if you have the proper tools, skill to use them, and a bit of luck. It is also very easy to screw up so you end up with useless junk. The manufacture of the M1D barrels is not documented in any manuals that I know of, and I do not know of a source for the manufacturing drawings. Of course, the drawing number on the side of the barrel will still be visible, and the drawing number ending in 448 is proof that this was a Bubbaized rifle, not a real sniper, as the GI sniper barrels for the M1D all had drawing numbers ending in 555. Yes, some of the felonious fakers out there to scrub the old numbers and stamp the "correct" numbers in hopes of fooling the gullible, so be careful. John Spangler

# 6467 - Snider Short Rifle Or Musketoon
9/3/2004

Lock is marked 1876 and ''FA'', appears to be a British proof on receiver Just purchased a Snider, Seem to be a musketoon length, with a 21 1/2'' barrel over all length is 40'' I believe it is a contract rifle for another country, but which one? Barrel is plumb, receiver also with a little gray ,stock is very good to excellent, with very few dings, front band has a bayonet lug, for what appears to a mod. 1856 bayonet of sorts, I have an original bayonet but it will not fit due to the base of the lug is flat, and the bayonet has a radius to fit the lug on the musketoon barrel, the serial # is 189, brass nose cap, trigger guard, butt plate, any info would be appreciated. Thanks Dan Newman

Answer:
Dan- Sorry, we cannot do much to identify the country. There is an excellent reference book on the Snider-Enfield that would probably answer your questions, but you really need to have the book and gun together to check the details. As far as the bayonet not fitting, there are a number of variations of the bayonets to accommodate the differences in the way the lugs are mounts on the barrel (or in some cases on the upper band). The same style bayonets were used starting with the Pattern 1858 rifles and continued thorough the Snider era, but were made by many makers (including some in Belgium) for both British government and other purchasers, and most were "non-interchangeable" so there is a wide variety of possible mismatches possible. John Spangler

# 6602 - 1917 DWM Artillery Luger
9/3/2004
Jeff

Engraved with a stylized ''DWM'' on the top of the breach (at least that is what I think it is??) and there is something like German T S S's with little crowns on top of 'em, followed by a German eagle along the right side of the body, above the trigger. All the numbers on the gun match and it is in excellent condition. I think. Decent for sure. There is also a 1917 just behind the adjustable site Hello there. This weapon was recovered by my Great Grandfather after WWI. It has been handed down now through 4 generations our family and we are curious to know about the guns history, story, and a good guestimate as to it's value before we go to get it appraised. Wisdom don't ya know. I understand that my father was offered some several thousand dollars (anywhere from 2 - 6 grand depending on the level of exaggeration and whiskey) for it about 10 years ago. We are not looking to sell but are curious how much my niece and nephew's college it might pay for. Thank you for your time and knowledge! Respectfully, Jeff

Answer:
Jeff, it sounds like you have a nice Luger, models like yours with the long barrel are called Artillery Lugers. The markings that you describe are various proof and inspector stampings, the numbers on the small parts are used to verify that the parts are original to the firearm. Value is greatly reduced if any of these numbers do not match. DWM stands for Deutsche Waffen u. Munitionswerke it is the manufacturers logo, and 1917 is the year of manufacture.

Artillery Lugers are rarer than the regular models that have shorter barrels and they are more highly prized by collectors. Approximately 60,000 DWM Artillery Lugers were manufactured in the serial number range 587 to 3521m in 1917.

The blue book lists values for 1917 DWM Artillery models between $800 and $2200 depending on condition. I do not know of any existing records that would enable me to look up the history of your Luger. I have heard that all information was destroyed during the war. Marc