# 4927 - New England Westinghouse 30.06
7/30/02

I own a New England Westinghouse 30.06 caliber sharpshooter. Possibly WW2 sharpshooter. Do you have any possible Information on this gun value and Etc. ?

Answer:
Dale- The only rifles New England Westinghouse made were Model 1891 Mosin Nagant bolt action rifles in 7.62x54 Russian caliber. Some of these were later sold as surplus and converted to .30-06. It is the consensus among most collectors that this is an unsafe conversion and that they should NOT be fired under any circumstances. They are interesting curiosities, and some folks who collect Mosin Nagants would probably like one for their collection. My guess is that a fair market value would probably be in the range of $75-150. John Spangler

# 4925 - Inside Primed .50-70 Cases
7/30/02
Richard, California

Adding to my Modoc War collection of 50-70's, I found an unmarked copper cased one which I was told was inside primed. The base of the case is flat except for a slight depression toward the middle, with 2 black dots on opposite edges. I guess these are military Benet primed? If so would they date to early 1873 or so?

Answer:
Richard, - I believe that Benet primed cases had a substantial crease on opposite sides of the case, about 5/16" above the rim. The base may show slight dip, but most I have seen were flat. However, there were a number of other lesser known inside primed systems used/evaluated by Frankford Arsenal in the early years, and it may be one of them. You might check some of the drawings in the Glossary section of the Guide to Ammunition Collecting on the International Ammunition Association (IAA) website www.Cartridgecollectors.org John Spangler

# 4890 - Ortgies Vest Pocket Automatic
7/30/02
Norman OK

N/A Approx. , how many of these weapons exist in the U. S, and what is the approximate value of this pistol? My grandfather took it off a dead German soldier in WWII. My grandfather is now 95 and served as a medic.

Answer:
Norman, these are commonly called Ortgies Vest Pocket Automatic pistols. They are a .25 ACP caliber pistol with a 6 shot, magazine a 2 and 3/4 inch barrel with blue or nickel finish, fixed sights and wood grips. Ortgies manufactured their Vest Pocket Automatic pistols form 1921 to 1928. It is impossible to tell how many exist in the USA at the present time but they are fairly common and in low demand. The blue book lists values in the $100 to $200 range depending on condition but I have found them to be very slow sellers. Marc

# 4926 - Winchester Salute Cannon
7/19/02
Molly

Hello! Please help me. My grandfather has this cannon he bought for 5 dollars. The cannon is an Winchester W.R.A. Co. Trade Mark Cannon. It has on it Winchester Repeating Arm Co. Also it was made in New Havens Conn. USA. Patented August 20, 1901. It is a 10 gage. And it had the numbers 308 on it, but we are not sure what that means. It is the in original box it came in. It is solid black. The barrel if you go from edge to edge it measures 1.25 inch. Anything you can tell me would be a big help. We really want to know how much it is worth now.

Answer:
Molly - You have a very nice item. About 18,000 of these were made between 1898 and 1958. These were used for 4th of July salutes, starting yacht races and similar events requiring noise. These were made with iron wheels only until about 1930 and after that rubber wheels were also available, as was nickel finish instead of the traditional black finish. These have been copied in recent years, and the copies are worth less than the original Winchester made pieces. An original in very good condition would probably bring about $600 and one in really excellent condition with the original box would be more like $900. John Spangler

# 4924 - Japanese 6.5 With Wooden Bullets Painted Purple
7/19/02
Richard, California

I got a really neat full clip of some Japanese 6.5 with wooden bullets painted purple. Supposed to be training cartridges, but they are not the same ones pictured in Honeycutt's Military Rifles of Japan. The bullet shape is like the ones he calls paper bullet blanks, but these are hardwood. Both the bullets (not the cases) and the clip are painted purple. Wondered if you had seen these.

Answer:
Richard- 6.5 I don't know much about these. Everything I can find easily says they should be paper vice wood bullets. I have seen some paper bullet blanks that sure looked like wood and were very hard, but were in fact paper. Another possibility is that they are merely Jap caliber and not Japanese made- perhaps loaded by Chinese or someone else who used Jap rifles. (Both Mexico and England are known to have purchased quantities of 6.5 Jap rifles circa WW1, and Chinese Commies used lots of captured Japanese rifles.)

# 4881 - Savage Model 1904
7/19/02
Charlie

Is this a .22 specially for a child, it is so small in stature ? My guess is 1920's or 30's really don't know, can' t find much on Savage link's. thank you.

Answer:
Charlie, there is not a lot of information available on this model, I did find that Savage manufactured it form 1904 to 1917. It was a simple take-down single shot - junior rifle, with fixed open rear sight, and a plain straight wrist half stock with a short tapering forend. Overall length was 34 inches and weight was 3 pounds empty. Values for Savage Model 1904 rifles are in the $75.00 or less range. Marc

# 4918 - What Is The Hole In My Buttstock For?
7/16/02

I have a Winchester 1873 38-40 caliber man. in 1895. It has an octagon barrel and has a hole opening in the butt of the stock. What is the hole for? If the gun is 50% what is the approximate value? thank you for your help

Answer:
Many of the early Winchesters had holes in the buttplate and a trapdoor for access. This was also common in many other civilian and military arms of the period prior to 1945. These were for cleaning gear of various types. Early cartridges used fulminate of mercury in the primers, and black powder for the powder charge. Both substances are highly injurious to barrel steel, and cleaning was necessary as soon as possible to remove them and keep the gun serviceable. Winchesters usually used a multi section cleaning rod in the butt. Some other guns included small containers for oil, or "thong" type pull throughs (essentially a small weight with a piece of string that could be used to pull a patch through the bore.)

With the switch to smokeless powder circa 1900-1920 and non-corrosive, non-mercuric primers in the 1920s through 1940s, it is not quite as urgent to clean guns immediately after shooting, so people no longer carry cleaning gear with them in the field. (In fact, some shooters probably never clean their guns, and then wonder why they eventually become so full of gunk and crud that they no longer work. Many gunsmiths make a fortune simply cleaning a gun for a customer and charging them $50 or so for "fixing" it.

Value of your gun will depend on the exact configuration, and details of condition. As a rough guess, retail might be in the range of $600-1200. John Spangler

# 4876 - M-1 Garand Stock Refinish
7/16/02
Chris Fort Bragg, NC

I have a 9-43 dated Springfield M-1 that has had the stock covered with a lacquer--all the proofmarks are sanded off, however, I would like to bring the stock back to its original glory; is it safe to simply use a lacquer remover & then linseed oil the stock?

Answer:
Chris, I usually use a good quality paint remover to strip stocks, I have found that Formbys works quite well. After the stock is stripped you may want to die or stain it depending on the condition and color of the wood and your personal taste. When the stock is ready for linseed, try applying the oil with fine steel wool (00 or finer), this helps knock down the grain and gives a smoother finish. Good luck! Marc

# 4853 - 1895 Winchester Lee Navy 6mm Rifles
7/16/02
Kevin, Long Beach, CA

I an having an extremely difficult time acquiring one of these rifles. I have been searching for several years ( on and off due to military service) and have only come across a few sporterized models. Can you assist? I am also attempting to acquire the accompanying web ammo belt.

Answer:
Kevin- You obviously slept through Economics 101. There is a law of supply and demand which dictates that items in short supply with high demand become very expensive, while items with low demand are more easily obtained. Winchester Lee Navy rifles have always been popular with collectors, especially the military models. They have the magic Winchester name, were used by the Marine Corps, they are a really strange mechanism, and the first really small bore military rifle, and were the first US military arm to use a stripper clip. As a result, collectors from numerous fields are all determined to add one to their collections.
About 15,000 were delivered on military contracts, and another 3,300 made for civilian sales, but only the Winchester collectors care about the latter. Consider that U.S. military collectors are now paying huge sums to get one of the over 28,000 M1903A4 sniper rifles only half as old as the Lee Navy which is nearly twice as scarce. We have sold two or three Lee Navy rifles in recent years and they sold immediately. We had another absolutely superb example from one of the finest US Navy collections in the country but the owner was unable to find a critical part for it, so he ended up selling it privately, again at a very good price. I think I have seen one or two rifles available recently from Larry Pratt, but not cheap. He often has the cartridge belts too, also not cheap. I believe that repro belts and suspenders have been made for the reenactor market, and most of us can probably afford those. Originals are now running $1000 and up. (Maybe I should have kept the one I got from Bannerman or someone for about $35.00 in the 1960s?) Anyone who wants a Lee Navy and accessories can probably find them if they are prepared to pay the price, no matter how outrageous it might be. This is one of the few guns that Flayderman's Guide is way off on, as he lists them at $1850 in excellent condition, far less than any I have seen in recent years.
Ammunition is virtually unobtainable, except for small lots custom made by modifying other cases by specialist makers, so these are not shot very often. I heard recently that the collector arms specialist at SARCO was accidentally killed when the bolt came out of his Lee Navy. I don't know the details, and while the bolt stop is a notoriously fragile part of the rifle, and easily lost, it has nothing to do with locking the bolt when firing, and I have never heard of any other accidents involving these rifles. We will wait to hear what the experts and lawyers figure out on that one. (I can hear them now- "Is this the fault of the dead guy for doing something stupid, or the guy who made the ammo, or maybe Winchester who probably has deep pockets? Forget the fact the gun was made 100 years ago, and inspected by the U.S. government, the vultures will go for the money every time.) John Spangler

# 4874 - Ajack Scope Information
7/13/02

How long was the Ajack Optical Co. in business. I know they made scopes as late as WWII, did they stay in busied post war? I have a six power Ajack with elevation and windage turrets and am trying to date it TIA. Randall

Answer:
Ajack Scopes were German manufactured and of excellent quality, they were first imported into the United States from 1912 to 1914. Stoeger Arms Corp. of 507 Fifth Avenue New York marketed Ajack from 1937 to 1940 and was the sole U.S. agent and distributor during those years. Ajack scopes have individual binocular type focusing, elevation adjustments are internal and are locked in place with a set screw. Windage on early scopes, is adjusted at the scope mount. Starting in 1939 Ajack scopes were available with internal windage adjustments. World War II ended importation Ajack scopes but in 1954, Flaig's Sporting Goods reintroduced the Ajack line to the United States. The last known listing for Flaig's imported Ajack occurs in the 1964 Gun Digest. Marc

# 4850 - 1898 Krag Rifle
7/13/02
Derek Indianapolis, IN

Stamped with 1903 on the left side of the stock, Circle P on the bottom with a 21 above it. Has 'R HOUK' stamped on the end of the wood by the end of the barrel. The letter U stamped on the metal ring between the two wood pieces, that attaches to the sling clip. I ran across this gun and am not sure if it is all original. The stock is in good shape and the metal just needs a good cleaning. Also has a leather sling attached. It looks just like all of the pictures I have seen of the 1898 Krag rifle. Is this an original 1898?

Answer:
Derek- Everything you mention sounds original, correct and matching for a U.S. Model 1898 Krag rifle made in1903, with one small exception. The marking "R HOUK" on the tip of the stock is not original, and is probably just a prior owner's identification mark. While on an exceptionally pristine piece it would drop the demand and value somewhat, for most guns it is not that big a deal if small and out of the way. Krags have not been reproduced, although many have been rebuilt or refinished with varying degrees of skill and care. Sounds like it should be a nice gun. However, one minor detail to check for (I got burned once, so this is a lesson learned the hard way). Be sure to look at the breech end of the barrel, not just the muzzle. A small number of rifles were "rendered unsuitable for firing" by the Army prior to donation to veterans groups for ceremonial use. This involved drilling out the chamber to about the same diameter as the bolt. Unless someone thinks that is a cool and exotic variation needed for their advanced collection, that really hurts the value. John Spangler

# 4851 - M1903 Mark I Pedersen Device Rifle
7/13/02
Edmond, Pueblo, Colorado

Barrel: S. A. stamped on it, a small picture of a torch with a punch mark on it, and 5-42 stamped below that. Stock: Cartouche has S. A. with G. A. W. below that. There is also the letter "P" in a circle stamped on the bottom behind the trigger. Also looks like "B6" stamp on the stock right behind the trigger. Bolt: Underside of the bolt handle has a small punch mark and the letter "D" right by it. Locking lug has the letter J and the number 5 stamped on it. 20Receiver: has ejection port cut on the left side. Looks like another punch mark right below the serial number. Overall: In all, the weapon is in good to very good condition. The stock is in good shape with some dents and dings. All of the metal parts are in good condition and the barrel is in very good to excellent condition. I'd like to know any and all information you can give me about this particular rifle. If you can get any history on this specific rifle that would great, But any general information would be great. I'd also like to know if you can give me a general market value for the rifle. I know the serial number is pretty low for a Mark 1 so I was wondering if that might make it more valuable. It still has the original iron sights.

Answer:
Edmond- There does not seem to be any extra value or interest in M1903 Mark I rifles with serial numbers near the start of production. Further, your rifle's value is pretty well diminished since it is no longer in original Mark I configuration. The 1942 dated barrel confirms that it has been rebuilt (at least once), and most likely all the special Mark I parts (cutoff, cutoff spindle, sear, trigger, and stock) have been replaced by standard parts of various vintages. Although you mention that the barrel length is 19.5 inches, that is probably just the result of incorrect technique, as this is the length from the front of the rear sight base to the muzzle. Correct way to measure barrel length for any cartridge gun, except revolvers, is to measure from the face of the closed breech to the muzzle. To be 100% accurate you should poke a stick or cleaning rod down the barrel until it hits the closed breech, mark where the muzzle is, and then measure how much was inside the barrel. Suicidal idiots can try this without checking to be sure the gun is unloaded, but everyone else needs to verify that first, of course. The CMP program just sold a bunch of Mark Is (mostly rebuilt) for $450-525 depending on stock type. There is no documented history available on this rifle, and the only nearby number is one three digits away that was noted as being struck on January 1, 1919. John Spangler

# 4872 - Early Model 70 In 375 H & H Magnum
7/10/02
Scott Cloudy Cheyenne, WY

I have a Winchester Model 70 375 Magnum. This was a my grandfather's gun who was a guide in Alaska. Could you tell me anything about the history and value of this gun?

Answer:
Scott, the Model 70 was first announced in the January 1, 1937, Winchester price list. Winchester factory records show that the first delivery of Model 70 rifles to warehouse stock was on August 14, 1936. The Model 70 was a redesign of Winchester's earlier Model 54 bolt action rifle which incorporated many new features and improvements including a hinged floor plate, fully adjustable speed lock with short pull, new safety design with a horizontal swings that did not interfere with a telescope sight, manually releasable bolt stop which was independent of the sear and trigger, and a forged steel trigger guard. The Model 70 stock had less drop and a fuller forearm with better checkering. Target, Bull gun, and National Match style rifles were equipped with an adjustable sling swivel base. Rifles chambered in 375 H & H Magnum were originally offered with standard length and weight 24 inch barrels, these barrels were later changed to a slightly heavier 24 inch configuration. On February 8, 1937, Winchester decided to change 375 Magnum barrels to 25 inches with a different taper. This change was put into effect as factory stocks of the older style barrels were used up. The OldGuns.net Winchester Date Of Manufacture Program tells me that the year of manufacture for your rifle (serial number 4562) is 1937. The Cody Firearms Museum can provide a "factory letter" telling the date of shipment, and in some cases the destination of a gun, along with notes on any special features noted in the records. These records are somewhat incomplete, but are considered to be the best information available. There is a fee for the letters (about $50 or so, nothing like the outrageous ransom demanded by the folks at Colt for letters from their records.) Values for early model 70 rifles range from about $800 to over $2500 depending on condition. Marc

# 4841 - Joslyn Civil War Carbine
7/10/02
Patt, Fruitland Park, Fl

On the loading block, "W. F. Joslyn's Patent, October, 1861, June 1862, on the RH sideplate, "Joslyn Firearms Co Stonington Conn"20Plate on the end of the stock is brass with no markings. The hammer has been removed, threads are still good, the hammer spring works From my grandfather, to my father, to me, I'm 78. Would this gun be of any value to a collector?

Answer:
Patt- About 3,500 of the Model 1862 Joslyn carbines were purchased privately and by the government for use during the Civil War. They used a .52 caliber rimfire cartridge, and were fairly popular and reliable guns. The missing hammer will hurt value and demand somewhat, but a collector can probably find a replacement from one of the dealer who specialize in such things. Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and their Values lists this model as worth about $950 in NRA antique "good" condition, and $2,750 in fine. So, the answer is yes, this would have value to a collector. Please let us know if you decide to sell. Or, you may want to review some information on selling options at http://Oldguns.net/selling.htm John Spangler

# 4812 - Mauser 7mm Rifle
7/10/02
Joshua Martin, Houston, Texas

1. Iron cross type marking on magazine top plate (where ammunition makes contact), looks like a , but with the outer tines topped with a short perpendicular line. 202. Circle E marking on the top of the receiver, just behind and down to the left of the forward scope mount.3. Squarish snowflake-looking stamp on the trigger, just above the20finger curve, on left-hand side.204. Circle R marking on the left-hand side of the receiver, at the bottom left-hand front side.4. Viewing the receiver from the bottom side, the flat portion between the magazine opening and front bolt thread post, there appears to be an "8" (closer to the bolt post) and a lambda marking (the 'lambda' looks like a backwards lowercase "y") nearer to the magazine.5. There is a triangle-within-a-circle stamp on the trigger-group 'rocker arm' (for lack of accurate nomenclature).6. Circle-triangle marking (as above) also marked on the bolt. Bolt has "667" stamp. Barrel, receiver, and mag floorplate have same serial no. , E 5536. I am asking for an identification of the origin of this rifle. It was inherited by a coworker who wants to sell it. The rifle appears to be a 1970s sporterized (thus demarked? ) carbine; glossy Monte Carlo style wood stock; polished, very smooth action; "Pachmayr Gun Works White Line" recoil pad; barrel appears turned down at half-length and near muzzle; single, blank dimples where rear/front sights would be; blocked, squarish forend. I would estimate 90% condition.

Answer:
Joshua- This sure sounds like another one of the Spanish Mausers to me. Probably the Model 1893 or 1916. Many of them were heavily buffed and refinished prior to sale as surplus in the late 20th century. While basically serviceable guns, I am not a big fan of them as shooters, and am unable to explain why anyone would waste money doing a fancy sporterize job on one. If someone wants a cheap deer rifle, this would probably work and in my opinion a fair price would probably be less than $200, and depending on the quality of the work, maybe closer to $75. Frankly, if I were looking for a gun to shoot, I would spend just a little bit more and get something that may be safer, better looking, and a bit classier. John Spangler

# 4859 - Velo-Dog Revolver
7/6/02
Cody, Yadkinville, North Carolina

This is a hammerless 5 shot revolver with a folding trigger I have a 5 shot Liege revolver (or so I have been told) It is hammerless and has a folding trigger. It looks more like a pocket weapon. It has a very short octagon barrel. I am wondering when this was made. It has NO serial number or no name other than it has 7.65 Browning engraved on top. It was brought back from the war in 1945. I have a certificate with it allowing it to be brought into the USA.

Answer:
Cody, your revolver is what is commonly known as a Velo-Dog. These were widely sold as self-defense guns for bicyclists starting in the 1890s. In those days, cyclists on their velocipedes were highly likely to be set upon by large and fierce dogs. Velo-Dog revolvers were designed for defensive use against dogs, the term 'Velo-Dog' is a combination of the words 'Velocipede' and 'Dog'. Original Velo-Dog revolvers were chambered for a special cartridge, the 5.5mm Veldodog which was less powerful than a .22 Long Rifle. The Veldodog cartridge was long and thin, loaded with a 45 grain jacketed bullet. Soft hearted animal lovers could purchase cartridges loaded with cayenne pepper and dust shot. In later years more effective revolvers chambered for .22 and 6.35mm ACP cartridges were also available. Marc

# 4794 - CMP Sale Of 1903A4
7/6/02
Bill

I May buy a 1903A3 from the Department of Civilian Marksmanship. How do I insure that the rifle I buy is a 1903A4 and not a issue 1903A3?

Answer:
Bill- The folks at the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP, who are on line at www.odcmp.com) are pretty darn sharp about what they have. If they say it is a 1903A4, then it is. Note that ALL Model 1903A4 rifles are marked "MODEL 03-A3" (except for a handful that had a 4 stamped over the 3 in A3 at some point after manufacture). CMP stuff ranges from mediocre to absolutely stunning quality, and is invariably priced fairly (or cheap in a few cases). Proceeds go to support the Civilian Marksmanship Program which focuses on shooter development and youth shooting programs and the National Matches. CMP items are for your personal use and not for resale, so we do not get stuff from CMP for our inventory, although once in a while we get something that person is thinning out from their collection. The CMP inventory comes directly from US military stocks, or US Military stocks that were shipped to allies as foreign military assistance and then returned. Some items have been heavily used or rebuilt (here or in foreign custody) one or more times. All items are part of our history and great for collections, and some are greater than others and prized by shooters as well. (Barbarians who tear up good collector guns in the view of some.) Many guns in collections today came from the CMP, or its predecessor, the Director of Civilian Marksmanship, including the vast majority of National Match rifles and pistols. Back in the old days, the DCM sold Krags, Trapdoors, and even Mosin Nagants. After WW2 they released M1903 and 1917 rifles. In the 1960s unfired (as well as used, luck of the draw dictated which you got) M1903A3s were $10 plus $4.50 shipping and handling. M1911 .45 autos were $17, and M1 Carbines were $20. Of course that was all back when virtually every man in the country who was not a criminal had served in the armed forces, and used guns like these to defend our freedom, and the government trusted citizens with guns. Now, with only a few people gaining experience with firearms in military service, the prevailing attitude has become "Guns are evil and mere citizens cannot be trusted with them, and guns must be destroyed." Of course, the next line goes something like "Big government is good for you and can fix everything as soon as we take everything away from people who love freedom and work hard and expect to greedily enjoy the fruits of their labor instead of sharing it with the lazy folks who don't or won't work, but vote for us because they want handouts." John Spangler

# 4786 - Smith & Wesson .38 caliber revolver
7/6/02
Kyle, Huntington, WV

Pat # 1865 I have someone who wants to sell me this 1886 S & W they want $650, to me this seems ridiculously low, but I was just curious. It is double action, but I don't have a serial # Thanks

Answer:
Kyle- Based on your description of having an 1865 patent date and serial number of 122247, we narrowed this down to what collectors call the "S&W Double Action, Third Model Revolver" made circa 1884-1895. None of the earlier .38 caliber models had serial numbers that high, so this is the earliest possible match. These are part of the "top break" series which have limited collector value. Intended for use with the old .38 S&W centerfire cartridge loaded with black powder, they should not be shot with modern ammunition. Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and Their Values indicates that these should retail about $175 in NRA antique very good condition or maybe $300 in excellent. A few of the earlier double action variations may bring a bit more, but it sounds to me like someone thinks you might be a sucker. Now, if it had the scarce 8 inch or 10 inch barrel, then it might be a good deal. I am not sure why someone would want one of the shorter barrel guns to start with, but if you do, try offering him a trade of some of your stuff, claiming it is worth about two or three times what it might really bring. Maybe he will take two five dollar cats for his ten dollar dog. John Spangler

# 4842 - Colt Value
7/3/02
Kent, Mingo Junction, OH

Can you give me an approximate value? Gun is 10-20% finish. It has the black Colt Motif Grip. It also has the stamped "A" for O. W. Ainsworth. Thank you very much. .

Answer:
Kent, the partial serial number that you provided makes it more difficult for me to answer your question. This revolver was manufactured during the xx-st year of production. There are several factors effecting value, and most relate to condition and the originality of the gun. Let me list a few. Do the serial numbers on the frame, gripstraps, and cylinder match? If not then value drops. The earliest pistols had wooden grips so your grips are replacements, this will reduce value. The nickel plating may or may not be original, if the finish is not original the value will be reduced. The actual condition of the metal makes a big difference, I've seen Colt Single Actions that had about 10 dings per square inch of surface, and others that had an occasional minor ding here and there, yet both are still have 10 to 20% original finish remaining. Considering all of these factors, you may have a $1000 Colt or you may have a Colt that is worth $2000 or more. Without actually seeing the revolver it is difficult to be more precise on the price. Marc

# 4769 - Phoenix (Whitney) Rifle
7/3/02
Phoenix

Phoenix 44cal. stamped on top of the barrel Breech flips open to the right, if pressed farther down an ejector comes out. I also have several brass bullets in long and short 44 caliber. How old is this rifle? How many were made? Were was it made? Thanks.

Answer:
Phoenix rifles were made circa 1867-1881 by the Whitney Arms Company of Whitneyville (New Haven), Connecticut. Yes, that is the firm started by the old cotton gin inventor and interchangeable parts maker, Eli Whitney, back about 1798. Exact origin of the design is not clear, but it seems to be based at least partially on the Civil War Warner carbines. (See "Warner Civil War Cavalry Carbines" by my old college roommate COL J. Alan Hassel to learn everything about the Warners.)

Flayderman's guide to Antique American Firearms and Their Values indicates that about 2000 Phoenix rifles were reportedly made but they seem scarcer than that. They were made with round or octagonal barrel lengths from 26 inches to 30 inches for rifles. They were made in both .44 rimfire and .44 centerfire and various other calibers from .32 rimfire to .50 centerfire. Small number were also made in civilian carbine, military musket, shotgun, gallery, or schuetzen configurations. While not especially valuable, they do have some collector interest, and are another example of the wide variety of guns made over the years to meet the demands of the civilian market before the biased liberal news media got on their current theme of "guns are bad" and started sympathizing with poor misunderstood mass murderers instead of victims who might want to defend themselves against such scum. Back when every teen age boy had at least one gun of his own we did not see all this violence, so despite the shrill campaign of the anti-gun zealots, it is not the availability of guns, but something else that has created a problem in American Society. John Spangler

# 4709 - Harrington & Richardson "Shakara" Rifle
7/3/02
Loren

Where would I find some information about this weapon? I am a member of the NRA.

Answer:
Loren- We cannot help a lot with that one, even for a NRA member. I vaguely recall seeing a rifle like that advertised maybe 10-30 years ago. I believe it was based on a single shot shotgun type frame, as are many of H&R's varied products. H&R is one of the under-appreciated American arms makers. They have made high quality arms on military contracts, and tons and tons of low cost, but well made guns for the mass market, including rifles, pistols, and shotguns of many different types. This could be a fascinating collecting field with lots of variety, little competition (but also very few people willing to listen to your boasting of acquiring some new treasure) and generally very low prices. Maybe a review of old copies of Gun Digest or Shooters Bible where they review new products would mention these. John Spangler